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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    shels4ever wrote: »
    best of luck hope it goes well , i'm sure your hard work will pay off.

    Afraid not.
    I had an all time low performance which has left me feeling quite angry, embarrassed and upset. Need to take some time to digest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    Woddle wrote: »
    Afraid not.
    I had an all time low performance which has left me feeling quite angry, embarrassed and upset. Need to take some time to digest.
    oh what happened?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    shels4ever wrote: »
    oh what happened?

    Just ran a stinker. I'll stick up a race report later when I can make more sense of the **** performance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    Woddle wrote: »
    Just ran a stinker. I'll stick up a race report later when I can make more sense of the **** performance.
    Everyone has bad days don't get stressed to much. Larry did tell you to enjoy it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    Sun 26th
    Dungarvan 10k
    Ok so as of tonight I'm finally out of my dark place (more about that later)
    It took me two and a half hours to get to Dungarvan which was more than enough time for me to psyche myself out of this race.
    I met Pronator before the start (which was a pleasure) and was a welcome distraction from my nerves.
    We were off and I looked at the watch after a couple of mins to find I was running 5:55 pace but it felt good. I still decided it would be a good idea to slow it down 6:15 for the first mile. For the next 4 minutes things were still going well but it was feeling tougher and this was confirmed by my watch when I saw 190 bpm on the garmin. This frightened the bejaysus out of me and I really took my foot off the peddle and just started jogging.
    I know now that mentally I wasn't ready for the pain and I didn't want to push it, also I did start way too fast which was always going to have a negative effect.
    48:59 was my finishing time and the one positive I can take from a really bad day is that I didn't walk :D

    Mon 27th
    5 miles at 8:15 pace, AHR 155

    Tue 28th
    Ended up as a rest day

    Wed 29th
    Coach Larry didn't seem too worried about my bad performance and the session he had in mind for me was a sub 20 minute 5k on the track. I didn't tell him this but this session was freaking me out as much as the race. My confidence was already at an all time low.
    I tried to get a couple of people to help me run this but I didn't really give them enough notice. So I was on my own or so I thought. Up at the track and I see Colm Barcoe arriving for his own session and I chanced my arm

    W - ''What you doing tonight''
    C - ''2ks, why what you doing''
    W - ''Hopefully sub 20 for 5k''
    C - ''You want help''
    W - ''If it's not messing your plans about''

    He checks with his coach who says no probs.
    The plan was for me to lead and if I needed help he'd take over.
    I started way too fast again, 3:04 for the first 800m, at this point Colm took over and I did my best to follow him. 6:15 for the first 1600m.
    At the 2500m mark I was really starting to feel it and thoughts of finishing at 2 miles were taking over.
    A few of the kids I help coach were up at the track and they were very supportive and as a result I kind of knew I wouldn't quit, what would they think of their coach if he just keeled over (thank God they weren't in Dungarvan :D
    At 3k a gap was starting to open, probably about 10/15 meters. I had to dig deep a few times to stop it getting greater. When I got to 4k it was really tough but instead of counting laps up, I could count down 4,3,2, and dig deep for the last 200m.
    19:52 fcekin delighted and a huge thanks to Colm (I gave him a lift home :D

    So confidence is back up. My garmin went after only about 450 meters but I got it going again and using Colms splits and working backwards from my garmin it went like.

    0-800m in 3:04
    800m - 1000m in 48 secs
    1000m - 1600m in 2:23
    1600m - 4800m in 12:56
    4800m - 5000m in 41 secs

    Total 19:52
    The lap splits are all over the place, I was working so hard that I was forgetting to press the lap button
    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/153758429


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Well done tonight, sorry I couldn't help. If you had asked for tomorrow I would have been delighted. Fair play to Colm he is always good like that for helping out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    you're killing yourself with those starts, but that was a great way to come back


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭donothoponpop


    Nice one Woddle, that's a great way to bounce back.

    FWIW I was glad to read you were so pissed off at a bad performance in the 10k, it shows you care. You should feel sh!t about it, especially since you took your foot off the gas. To come back with that 5k a couple of days later is a great sign. This will be a breakthrough year for you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    Nice one Woddle, that's a great way to bounce back.

    FWIW I was glad to read you were so pissed off at a bad performance in the 10k, it shows you care. You should feel sh!t about it, especially since you took your foot off the gas. To come back with that 5k a couple of days later is a great sign. This will be a breakthrough year for you.

    Are you patting me on the back :D

    Cheers DP, the mental side of this running game is still an enigma to me. I really don't understand why I let it get to me so much but I suppose the highs of tonight is what we're after and keep us going.
    Delighted to see your knee is a lot better. You doing the mile race in Greystones next week? I'm thinking of having a go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭belcarra


    Obviously Dungarvan was a bad day at the office but the 5km should have sorted all that out for you now hopefully. Have you reviewed the race and worked out exactly the position you need to be by 500/1k/1.5km/2k at the start of your next race? What I'm getting at is to micro manage the first couple of km until you really hit your stride so as to avoid haring off again? Has Larry any thoughts on that??
    I have a mate who similarly powers off at the start by natural instinct but he's coming round to starting easier in order to maintain a higher av pace now...slowly but surely!!

    Well done again on the track session...what's the next race? Anything before Berlin?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Larry Brent


    Woddle wrote: »
    Larry didn't seem too worried about my bad performance and the session he had in mind for me was a sub 20 minute 5k on the track. I didn't tell him this but this session was freaking me out as much as the race. My confidence was already at an all time low.

    I thought this might be the case, so took a big gamble that we could get the confidence back where your physical state should have it in one fell swoop.

    Not sure what would have happened if you'd dropped out at 2k :eek: Back to the coaching drawing board :D

    Well done boy, be positive now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Larry Brent


    Woddle wrote: »
    I'm thinking of having a go.

    Thinking is all you'll be doing :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    The plan for Dungarvan via Larry was 6:30/35 for the first 2 miles. Nerves just got the better of me. I thought I had sorted all my eagerness out in Raheny but obviously not. It's sth I've always been guilty of but for the summer it could be a good thing given that I'll be racing 800/1500.

    Next race is possibly ^^^ a mile on the track next week followed by the MSB 5k which I'll definitely do.

    I'd say Larry will have some kind of longer time trial in mind nearer the race.


  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Larry Brent


    Schedule updated. No place for a 1miler I don't think. The 5k short enough for now, plenty of scope for shorter races post April 1st.

    Thinking about the help Colm gave you, perhaps you need a regular training partner...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭donothoponpop


    Woddle wrote: »
    Are you patting me on the back :D

    Absolutely,:D its well deserved too. You used the disappointment of the lousy 10k by running above yourself in the time trial. That's what its all about. Great running.
    Woddle wrote: »
    You doing the mile race in Greystones next week? I'm thinking of having a go.

    Haven't really run in a while, so I doubt it. Although it would be nice to know if I've improved since the Xmas race, We'll see. A big goal is sub5 mile in summer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Great to see you bounce back straight away will stand to you as a mental reference point when you get to low points in training/racing in the future. I wouldnt worry too much about Dungarvan it has been a long hile since you were racing and takes one or two to get back into it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭dna_leri


    So what's the lesson learnt from the race and time trial ?

    Have you ever considered racing without the HRM?
    I ditched mine after taking my foot off the gas in a 10K last year and have not looked back since. Looks like you could take the pain when the kids were watching so...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    dna_leri wrote: »
    So what's the lesson learnt from the race and time trial ?

    Have you ever considered racing without the HRM?
    I ditched mine after taking my foot off the gas in a 10K last year and have not looked back since. Looks like you could take the pain when the kids were watching so...

    I definitely reccomend racing without the HRM data. You can still wear the HRM and analyse the data afterwards. Just turn off the data from the visible fields while you are racing/training.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    That's what I did last night, not that I had to as the floodlights were off so couldn't see anyway. Looking back at the data now I reckon I would have stopped or slowed down with a fright if I had of seen it. My heart rate average was 95% of max and the last mile was at 98% of max. I've never ran at that intensity for a 5k before. So a lot of confidence taken from it and it showed me that I can get out of my comfort zone. From now on I'll only look at heart rate data after the race.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Woddle wrote: »
    That's what I did last night, not that I had to as the floodlights were off so couldn't see anyway. Looking back at the data now I reckon I would have stopped or slowed down with a fright if I had of seen it. My heart rate average was 95% of max and the last mile was at 98% of max. I've never ran at that intensity for a 5k before. So a lot of confidence taken from it and it showed me that I can get out of my comfort zone. From now on I'll only look at heart rate data after the race.

    That's some serious intensity and confirms what you thought your max HR was (better than the max HR test you did a while back?). Still not unusual for a 5k though, about right in terms of intensity.

    Whats the plan for MSB? I will need to watch my back by the looks of it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    menoscemo wrote: »
    Whats the plan for MSB? I will need to watch my back by the looks of it.

    Watch your back? What you really need to do is grab hold of Woddle's singlet to stop him tearing past you in the first 100m :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    RayCun wrote: »
    Watch your back? What you really need to do is grab hold of Woddle's singlet to stop him tearing past you in the first 100m :pac:

    No, it might be a better tactic to let him tear off ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    I don't think either of yee have anything to worry about...yet :D

    I'll be aiming for a PB <19:25
    Looking at my splits from the PB
    5:59
    6:23
    6:17
    and I was always starting too fast, not sure if it's such a problem over 5k. I think I put a link to a study up before that distances up to 5k it can be more beneficial to start fast and hold on :D sounds like fun


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Woddle wrote: »
    I'll be aiming for a PB <19:25
    Looking at my splits from the PB
    5:59
    6:23
    6:17
    and I was always starting too fast, not sure if it's such a problem over 5k. I think I put a link to a study up before that distances up to 5k it can be more beneficial to start fast and hold on :D sounds like fun

    Yes, I remember that and I think there's some truth to it. but there's a difference between running faster than goal pace in your first k, and running too fast:).
    (I'm thinking low 3.40's for my first k, and average pace overall no faster than 3.50. The second bit will the the problem :))


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    RayCun wrote: »
    Yes, I remember that and I think there's some truth to it. but there's a difference between running faster than goal pace in your first k, and running too fast:).
    (I'm thinking low 3.40's for my first k, and average pace overall no faster than 3.50. The second bit will the the problem :))

    Sub 19? maybe, really good target for you


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Woddle wrote: »
    Sub 19? maybe, really good target for you

    also, possibly insane. Only one way to find out...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Well done with that 5K TT. How do you have the patience to do such a thing for 12.5 laps! I'd go stone mad with boredom! I find 2 of them tough enough! :)

    Any plans and goals for track season?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    04072511 wrote: »
    Well done with that 5K TT. How do you have the patience to do such a thing for 12.5 laps! I'd go stone mad with boredom! I find 2 of them tough enough! :)

    Any plans and goals for track season?

    Everything that's been done right now is all about the summer track. I've always reckoned I'm better at shorter and now it's time to see if I'm right.
    PBs are
    2:30 and 5:14 for 800/1500 both done during marathon training. So with specific training starting in April.
    Sub 2:20 for 800
    Sub 4:45

    and in dream land I'd love a sub 5 minute mile before the summers end.
    Also from reading your log you have me wondering about a sub 60 400m, I know right now I can bang out a sub 30 200m handy enough but keeping that going for 400...I'm not so sure.
    My club has probably the best track in the country right now so I've no excuses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Woddle wrote: »
    Everything that's been done right now is all about the summer track. I've always reckoned I'm better at shorter and now it's time to see if I'm right.
    PBs are
    2:30 and 5:14 for 800/1500 both done during marathon training. So with specific training starting in April.
    Sub 2:20 for 800
    Sub 4:45

    and in dream land I'd love a sub 5 minute mile before the summers end.
    Also from reading your log you have me wondering about a sub 60 400m, I know right now I can bang out a sub 30 200m handy enough but keeping that going for 400...I'm not so sure.
    My club has probably the best track in the country right now so I've no excuses.

    Yeh, you'd need to be in high 26/low 27 200m shape to run sub 60 I reckon, and also have a good base of speed endurance on top of that speed. Very much doable though. What's your 100m speed?

    Good targets there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Woddle wrote: »
    Sub 4:45 and in dream land I'd love a sub 5 minute mile before the summers end.
    If your goal for 1500m is 4:45, isn't a sub 5 minute mile just a case of continuing on for another 100m in 15 seconds?!


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