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Russian and alt-right Interference in democracies.

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  • 06-12-2016 3:45pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭


    https://thinkprogress.org/russian-interference-in-elections-around-the-world-is-spreading-a6b1e3c78c8#.63n4svnl4
    U.S intelligence agencies believe the Kremlin may have influenced the recent U.S presidential election by hacking the DNCs email system.
    The same phenomenon is occuring in Europe with German and Italian leaders now having to fight off fake news and wikileaks hacks. In Italy little has been done to disguise the fact that anti Renzi and pro 5 star fake news was originating on Sputnik and other pro Russian propaganda sites.

    In France, Juppe who was hot favourite to top Sarko and Fillon for the right nomination slumped in the final week after a fake news story linking him to the Muslim brotherhood from 2014 re-emerged embellished. The result was that in a major European nuclear power the presidential election will be between Fillon who is hugely pro Putin and social conservative and Marine Le Pen.

    In the US there is evidence of a tsunami of pre Trump fake news facebook sites originating from the same town in Macedonia. Source

    On Twitter non human and human Russian bots were significantly involved in trending popular stories and posters during the U.S. election. Key hashtags were retweeted by self deleting accounts until they were picked up by a high profile alt-right poster and then trended. The St Petersburg human troll factory were majorly involved also.
    Source. These trolls were active during Brexit also.

    That brings us to alt-right influence:
    In Europe Putin has funded almost every ultra-right group on the continent including La Front Nationale to the tune of over €10 million. Since Marine Le Pen endorsed the Crimean plebiscite she has been in Moscow several times. These right wing groups set up 'election' organisations to validate the Crimean result. Farage has been offered a slow on RT (formerly Russia Today).

    The money and influence behind Trumps campaign is Rebekah Mercer. Source: Kelly Anne Conway and particularly Steve Bannon are long time associates. Her Father Robert Mercer made his fortune using algorythms to make money on and for hedge funds. They were a big donor to Breitbart news. R Mercer sponsored Bannon and co to produce Clintons cash by a company in the same building as Breitbart. A Mercer company 'Cambridge Analytic' was the pollng company for Trumps campaign and crunched Facebooks habits of millions of users. Bannon is on the board of Cambridge Analytica. Farage is a long time frind and acquantance of Baonnon. Cambridge did the polling for the Leave.eu campaign. Raheem Kassam Farage's chief advisor was editor for Breitbart news London. He went for UKIPs leadership recently. Breitbart France is neing stup to help Marine Le Pen. No doubt Cambridge analytica will make an appearance there, as will the half truths, fake news and troll army that the Kremlin/Alt-right seem to employ.
    The common ideology between Putin/Alt-right is proclaimed to be anti-globalisation but is really anti-liberalism. You see it in Putins/Russian Orthodox attacks on the LGBT community and women. The White house cabinet set up by Trump/Mercer/Bannon is similar.
    The EU is the prize and it can only be taken down by targetting individual countries to leave.
    Do you agree that this subversion of democratic election exists? What can the EU, governments, concerned citizens do to fight it?
    This is not an attack on any ideology, rather the methods some ideologies are using to subvert elections.

    Edit: Method of Russian twitter bots in US election and to a lesser extend Brexit.
    http://heatst.com/world/how-russias-twitter-bots-and-trolls-work-with-donald-trump-campaign-accounts/


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    You're using "alt right" and "ultra right" interchangeably then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    You're using "alt right" and "ultra right" interchangeably then?

    Yes i am. And white supremacist. Nazi also. The myriad of groups that are supported by Bannon and Putin reflects this range.
    E.g The alt-right identarian group in Austria is headed by a former neo-nazi.
    We saw Spencer and his 'alt-right' followers recite Hitler in German and use Nazi salutes.
    The ultra right are trying to alter the message slightly in order not to alienate as many people, with the odd slip up. Best to call them what they are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 744 ✭✭✭Thomas_...


    demfad wrote: »
    You're using "alt right" and "ultra right" interchangeably then?

    Yes i am. And white supremacist. Nazi also. The myriad of groups that are supported by Bannon and Putin reflects this range.
    E.g The alt-right identarian group in Austria is headed by a former neo-nazi.
    We saw Spencer and his 'alt-right' followers recite Hitler in German and use Nazi salutes.
    The ultra right are trying to alter the message slightly in order not to alienate as many people, with the odd slip up. Best to call them what they are.
    Spot on. That is exactly the way they work and how they try to appear in public whilst being more radical when exposed by some sectretly filmed videos like in that which has gone around the world in the media when they "hailed" the election win by Trump. They are nothing but a bunch of disgusting backward people who are now posing a real threat to every three and divisive society (in a pluarilistic and liberal sense).

    I see it exactly the way you do and I utterly dislike those far-right to right-wing nutters for various and plenty of reasons. They are worse liars than those they accuse of lying. It doesn't come from nowhere why Putin is so fond of Trump and despite the lack of evidence (which is rather hard to find in order to prove that Putin has his Hands in the rising of far-right parties across Europe) I have really no doubt that Putin is pulling some strings to get his "new world order" realised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Thomas_... wrote: »
    Spot on. That is exactly the way they work and how they try to appear in public whilst being more radical when exposed by some sectretly filmed videos like in that which has gone around the world in the media when they "hailed" the election win by Trump. They are nothing but a bunch of disgusting backward people who are now posing a real threat to every three and divisive society (in a pluarilistic and liberal sense).

    I see it exactly the way you do and I utterly dislike those far-right to right-wing nutters for various and plenty of reasons. They are worse liars than those they accuse of lying. It doesn't come from nowhere why Putin is so fond of Trump and despite the lack of evidence (which is rather hard to find in order to prove that Putin has his Hands in the rising of far-right parties across Europe) I have really no doubt that Putin is pulling some strings to get his "new world order" realised.

    http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/strange-bedfellows-putin-and-europe%E2%80%99s-far-right
    But after Le Pen praised Russia’s actions in Ukraine, while Angela Merkel and other centrist European leaders were condemning it, Putin invited her to Moscow along with other representatives of the FN and other European far-right parties to observe the March referendum on Crimea’s accession to Russia. When she endorsed the Crimean referendum as legitimate, others on the European far right, including Austria’s FPÖ and Britain’s UKIP, followed suit. Russian media and bloggers, meanwhile, embraced Le Pen’s endorsement. One blogger started a “Merci Marine!” Twitter campaign.

    The below also outlines the ethos of Putin's Russian, Bannon and Europe's right. The agenda is Christian fascism in Christian countries, or traditionalist authoritanarianism in non Christian (but friendly) countries e.g India.

    Globalisation is being used as an excuse to attack and regress human rights.
    But the infatuation of the Western European far right with Putin is about what it calls “values” as well as the constellation of nationalist issues that coalesce in opposition to the idea, as well as the fact, of “Europe.” Le Pen has gone so far as to call the Russian president a defender of “the Christian heritage of European civilization.”

    The Putinist cultural conservatism that the far right admires has been enforced with an iron hand across Russian society. Most notorious is the anti-gay propaganda law passed in June 2013, which allows the government to infringe on LGBT individuals’ rights by banning peaceful demonstrations or imposing hefty fines on same-sex couples who are affectionate in public. The law was widely criticized by Western media, but in Russia, where population decline has reached a critical point, reinvigorating “family values” is high on the government’s agenda. Along with nationalism and law-and-order themes, traditional family values are key to Putin’s broader political ideology of “post-communist neo-conservatism.”


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 744 ✭✭✭Thomas_...


    demfad wrote: »
    Thomas_... wrote: »
    Spot on. That is exactly the way they work and how they try to appear in public whilst being more radical when exposed by some sectretly filmed videos like in that which has gone around the world in the media when they "hailed" the election win by Trump. They are nothing but a bunch of disgusting backward people who are now posing a real threat to every three and divisive society (in a pluarilistic and liberal sense).

    I see it exactly the way you do and I utterly dislike those far-right to right-wing nutters for various and plenty of reasons. They are worse liars than those they accuse of lying. It doesn't come from nowhere why Putin is so fond of Trump and despite the lack of evidence (which is rather hard to find in order to prove that Putin has his Hands in the rising of far-right parties across Europe) I have really no doubt that Putin is pulling some strings to get his "new world order" realised.

    http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/strange-bedfellows-putin-and-europe%E2%80%99s-far-right
    But after Le Pen praised Russia’s actions in Ukraine, while Angela Merkel and other centrist European leaders were condemning it, Putin invited her to Moscow along with other representatives of the FN and other European far-right parties to observe the March referendum on Crimea’s accession to Russia. When she endorsed the Crimean referendum as legitimate, others on the European far right, including Austria’s FPÖ and Britain’s UKIP, followed suit. Russian media and bloggers, meanwhile, embraced Le Pen’s endorsement. One blogger started a “Merci Marine!” Twitter campaign.

    The below also outlines the ethos of Putin's Russian, Bannon and Europe's right. The agenda is Christian fascism in Christian countries, or traditionalist authoritanarianism in non Christian (but friendly) countries e.g India.

    Globalisation is being used as an excuse to attack and regress human rights.
    But the infatuation of the Western European far right with Putin is about what it calls “values” as well as the constellation of nationalist issues that coalesce in opposition to the idea, as well as the fact, of “Europe.” Le Pen has gone so far as to call the Russian president a defender of “the Christian heritage of European civilization.”

    The Putinist cultural conservatism that the far right admires has been enforced with an iron hand across Russian society. Most notorious is the anti-gay propaganda law passed in June 2013, which allows the government to infringe on LGBT individuals’ rights by banning peaceful demonstrations or imposing hefty fines on same-sex couples who are affectionate in public. The law was widely criticized by Western media, but in Russia, where population decline has reached a critical point, reinvigorating “family values” is high on the government’s agenda. Along with nationalism and law-and-order themes, traditional family values are key to Putin’s broader political ideology of “post-communist neo-conservatism.”

    So it is and for this isn't enough, the Time Magazin has chosen the wrong person for the title "Person of the Year 2016" as they often did in the recent past. Not hard to guess who that is:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38238892
    Donald Trump is Time magazine's Person of the Year


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    It looks like liberals are still looking for excuses why they lost the most winnable for them elections and trying to blame everybody else, apart from themselves. They don’t want to see that they decided to go for worse possible Democratic candidate ever, who was not capable to deliver any messages to people, apart from ”It is my turn” and “Elect me – I am a women”. It is much easier to blame Putin, Macedonians, white supremacists and Antony Weiner, rather than see failure of liberal policies around the world


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    It looks like liberals are still looking for excuses why they lost the most winnable for them elections and trying to blame everybody else, apart from themselves. They don’t want to see that they decided to go for worse possible Democratic candidate ever, who was not capable to deliver any messages to people, apart from ”It is my turn” and “Elect me – I am a women”. It is much easier to blame Putin, Macedonians, white supremacists and Antony Weiner, rather than see failure of liberal policies around the world

    You seem to be getting globalist and liberal mixed up. There are conservative globalists e.g Republicans and there can be liberal protectionists e.g Corbyn.

    Do you believe that Russia are not trying to interfere in western elections?
    Here are examples from the Italian referendum.
    German intelligence is already worried about Russian interference in the upcoming elections.
    Is the interference working? It has certainly worked in France:
    Note: These links are all to real stories that provide sources for their information.
    Over the last 10 years, France has seen a sharp increase in the readership of alternative, far-right sites, blogs and social media operations, referred to collectively as the fachosphère – (“facho” is slang for fascist). Promoting views including anti-immigration, nativism and ultra-nationalism, these sites are run independently, rather than by a political party....
    One example, in the recent primary race to choose the French right’s presidential candidate, was a campaign on the fachosphère to claim the centre-right candidate Alain Juppé was linked to the Muslim Brotherhood. The accusation dated back to local elections in 2014 when distorted stories circulated on a far-right opinion website, accusing Juppé of wanting to build a “Mosque-Cathedral” in Bordeaux, where he is mayor. The story grew and was embellished during the primary campaigns to portray Juppé as a Muslim Brotherhood-linked “Ali Juppé”. Juppé said a “disgusting campaign” had been run against him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    As another example.

    A story emerged last week that Trump had won the popular vote.
    This was the origin of the fake news: https://70news.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/final-election-2016-numbers-trump-won-both-popular-62-9-m-62-7-m-and-electoral-college-vote-306-232-hey-change-org-scrap-your-loony-petition-now/
    Quite quickly it became the top search return on google for the popular vote.
    Trump even said it himself.
    The fact that Hilary Clinton won the popular vote is now challenged and many many of the people who voted for Trump will believe otherwise.
    This is more like something you would expect from a banana republic or North Korea. But this is the US in 2016.
    That is why the MSM is constantly de-legitimized. It is so that voters can be manipulated and controlled on social media.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,091 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    In Europe Putin has funded almost every ultra-right group on the continent including La Front Nationale to the tune of over €10 million.
    Have you a source for that?
    To my knowledge Le Pen's FN received a LOAN from a bank called the First Czech Russian Bank. Banks give LOANS and not donations as we are all aware!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Yes technically a loan from a Russian bank. The FN is strapped for cash and cannot receive loans in her own country, but they are good for it in Russia. The loan came just after Le Pen publicly endorsed Putins annexation of Crimea and the plebiscide there. She is also asking for a 27 million loan for the upcoming elections also in Russia.
    No proof, but a significant connection.
    Le Pen denied that financing from a Russian-owned bank would influence the party’s policies. In 2014, her party secured an €11 million loan from the Moscow-based First Czech Russian Bank.

    There were claims that Le Pen was given the loan as a “reward” for backing Vladimir Putin’s stance on Crimea. The accusation was made in April 2015, when a group of Russian hackers leaked text messages from a smartphone allegedly belonging to Timur Prokopenko, the head of the Kremlin internal affairs department, in which the support of the French far-right leader was discussed. She denied the claims.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,057 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Le Pen has been pretty open about her lack of funding and taking money from where she can get it.

    http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/fn/marine-le-pen-justifie-le-pret-d-une-banque-russe-au-fn_1625124.html

    Have also read a senior FN person say they will probably ask Russia banks for more money for a Le Pen run. But no conflict of interest for a women who has been investigated for fraud.:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Ferrari3600


    Every single thing said in the OP may well be true - who knows.

    But the US, which is basically run by neo-liberals/neo-conservatives (or at least has been until recently) has been interfering in elections all over the world for decades. Arguably, Putin is just playing them at their own game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    demfad wrote: »
    Do you believe that Russia are not trying to interfere in western elections?
    And why it should be a problem?
    First, West was interfering to Russian politics since independence. Just a reminder how it was looking two decades ago
    CoR1IBJVMAAOPJO.jpg
    and not much changed since then - nearly all so called "Russian pro-Western opposition" is on payroll from the Washington or Brussels(directly or through Soros like NGOs)
    Second, the rumours about Russian interference are greatly exaggerated in order to hide own faults. Russia Today wouldn't able to have so much influence if it wouldn't tell inconvenient truth, which Western elites would like to hide from ordinary people. Current policies "lets take more refugees to annoy Putin" didn't work well, as result a lot of people are angry about political elites and Putin has very little to do with it. If Putin wouldn't be so convenient target for Western political establishment, then it would be somebody else, like North Korea, Iran or ISIS


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    demfad wrote: »
    As another example.

    A story emerged last week that Trump had won the popular vote.
    This was the origin of the fake news: https://70news.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/final-election-2016-numbers-trump-won-both-popular-62-9-m-62-7-m-and-electoral-college-vote-306-232-hey-change-org-scrap-your-loony-petition-now/
    Quite quickly it became the top search return on google for the popular vote.
    Trump even said it himself.
    The fact that Hilary Clinton won the popular vote is now challenged and many many of the people who voted for Trump will believe otherwise.
    This is more like something you would expect from a banana republic or North Korea. But this is the US in 2016.
    That is why the MSM is constantly de-legitimized. It is so that voters can be manipulated and controlled on social media.
    the only reason why social media are successfully breaking monopoly of MSM for fake news is that nobody would believe twitter and facebook if it wouldn't be so much lies from MSM
    Most of media outlets wasted their credibility to support Clinton and looks laughing stock now
    20161207_TIME2_0_0.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    demfad wrote: »
    The FN is strapped for cash and cannot receive loans in her own country, but they are good for it in Russia.
    Do you mean that French banks have right to decide what is good and what is bad for their country?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    The attempts to link Putin to the election result are tenuous at best. The alt-right are simply ordinary, law abiding, working class Americans who are fed up seeing people from every corner of the world jumping the queue ahead of them. They want their country back.

    Besides, Putin is a stand up guy. This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Do you mean that French banks have right to decide what is good and what is bad for their country?

    No. The point is that they are not credit worthy enough to get a loan in their own country which negates the question as to why they were credit worthy enough in Russia? Le Pens endorsement of the Crimean annexation/plebiscite was clearly the 'Collateral' for that loan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    For me it is good for countries to have dialogue with one another and ignoring the Russians is just crazy. They are the largest country in the world and we in Europe treat them as though they are insignificant. Do nothing but drink Vodka all day stereotype is rude and displays a superiority complex. That being said I don't approve of all the actions Russia has taken but unlike western countries they are not hypocritical. You know what you get with them the KGB is gone replaced with the far less intimidating Russian intelligence service but by that same token the CIA and MI5 are still around and messing up gvt around the world. Someone should send a fax(:D) to the CIA. The Cold War is over. Stop reliving 60's spy thrillers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    demfad wrote: »
    No. The point is that they are not credit worthy enough to get a loan in their own country which negates the question as to why they were credit worthy enough in Russia? Le Pens endorsement of the Crimean annexation/plebiscite was clearly the 'Collateral' for that loan.
    Any explanation why the most popular party in France(from EU elections results) is not credit worthy?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Kitsunegari


    demfad wrote: »
    No. The point is that they are not credit worthy enough to get a loan in their own country which negates the question as to why they were credit worthy enough in Russia? Le Pens endorsement of the Crimean annexation/plebiscite was clearly the 'Collateral' for that loan.

    Russia is obviously going to attempt to influence political parties in Europe. That's how this game works. There is a major swing of change across the politcial landscape and he's capitalising on it. The 'new-right' is the only alternative for the people who want to see less beaucracy, less political correctness and less being lectured by the neo-liberals. The left seem incapable of change in the short term and until then you'll see more right wing governments popping up in the first world.

    If the left actually upheld liberal values and appealed to the common man they would easily beat the largely populist offering from candidates like Trump. Bernie Sanders was a good example of that. Until the left can change their appeal we'll continue to see Putin influence politics in Europe.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    demfad wrote: »
    You seem to be getting globalist and liberal mixed up. There are conservative globalists e.g Republicans and there can be liberal protectionists e.g Corbyn.

    Do you believe that Russia are not trying to interfere in western elections?
    Here are examples from the Italian referendum.
    German intelligence is already worried about Russian interference in the upcoming elections.
    Is the interference working? It has certainly worked in France:
    Note: These links are all to real stories that provide sources for their information.

    Corbyn is a socialist not a liberal. Russia might be interfering in European elections. It definitely did in the cold war - communist parties across Europe and the workers party here.


    The US also interferes and supports parties around the world - in fact it has overthrown democracies. Funny enough they supported real Nazis (of historical Nazi heritage) in the Ukraine - not just anti globalists, or anti immigrants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    And why it should be a problem?
    First, West was interfering to Russian politics since independence. Just a reminder how it was looking two decades ago
    and not much changed since then - nearly all so called "Russian pro-Western opposition" is on payroll from the Washington or Brussels(directly or through Soros like NGOs)

    The problem is that Russia through producing fake news sites, hacking and selectively leaking, using trolls and bots to bring false stories to prominence are poisoning democratic discussion and elections. The fact that the US has done similar in the past does not make it acceptable. The objective in Europe is clearly to destroy the EU for the benefit of Russia. Most people should not accept a foreign malign dictatorship trying to destroy their childrens future.
    Also beating up on homosexuals, women and minorities may be acceptable in Putin's Russia but it is not acceptable in democratic and liberal countries.

    Also, can you substantiate please any evidence of subterfuge from the EU (Brussels) in Russia. No fake stories please.
    Second, the rumours about Russian interference are greatly exaggerated in order to hide own faults. Russia Today wouldn't able to have so much influence if it wouldn't tell inconvenient truth, which Western elites would like to hide from ordinary people.

    What inconvenient truths are circulated by RT, Sputnik and the hundreds of sites that amplify Russian fake news. What inconvenient truths to the army of Russian trolls based in Pertograd tell us?
    That 3 million people voted illegally in the US election?
    That Obama actually created ISIS?
    What are the inconvenient truths? No Fake news stories please.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Corbyn is a socialist not a liberal. Russia might be interfering in European elections. It definitely did in the cold war - communist parties across Europe and the workers party here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Jeremy_Corbyn
    An advocate of LGBT rights since his days as a London councillor in the 1970s, Corbyn championed such causes as the Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners (LGSM), civil partnerships and same-sex marriage,[49] and support for the Equality Bill.[50] He was the only Labour MP to vote in favour of a Liberal Democrat amendment to outlaw discrimination based on sexuality in 1998, before the ratification of the Equality Act 2006.[51] Corbyn voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013, which ultimately legalised same-sex marriage in England and Wales.[52] He has also threatened "economic and diplomatic consequences" on those countries not supporting LGBT rights.[49] Corbyn supported the appointment of Michael Cashman as Labour's specialist LGBT rights international envoy in 2014.[50] He has also claimed that he would extend same-sex marriage to Northern Ireland and reverse the gay blood ban enacted by the Democratic Unionist Party, were he to become prime minister.[53]

    You see there is a difference between globalist and liberal now?
    The far right agenda is clearly to tar both with the same brush: to set back years of equality and human rights under the pretense of an anti-globalist stance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Today the head of MI6 in a clear reference to Russia has said:
    "Cyber-attacks, propaganda and subversion from hostile states pose a “fundamental threat” to European democracies, including the UK...
    “They do this through means as varied as cyber-attacks, propaganda or subversion of democratic process. Our job is to give the government the information advantage: to shine a light on these activities and help our country and our allies, in particular across Europe, build the resilience they need to protect themselves.
    “The risks at stake are profound and represent a fundamental threat to our sovereignty. They should be a concern to all those who share democratic values.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/08/hostile-states-pose-fundamental-threat-to-europe-says-mi6-chief

    Yesterday in the US a group representing the Democratic party is putting severe pressure on Obama to reveal "demanding further disclosures regarding Russia’s role in the 2016 US elections"
    In his Time magazine article, Trump denied Russia had any involvement in the election and accused the US intelligence community of lying.
    Now a group of senior House Democrats has also written to the president, seeking a classified briefing for colleagues on “Russian entities’ hacking of American political organizations; hacking and strategic release of emails from campaign officials; the WikiLeaks disclosures; fake news stories produced and distributed with the intent to mislead American voters; and any other Russian or Russian-related interference or involvement in our recent election.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/07/obama-democrats-russia-role-elections


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    demfad wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Jeremy_Corbyn



    You see there is a difference between globalist and liberal now?
    The far right agenda is clearly to tar both with the same brush: to set back years of equality and human rights under the pretense of an anti-globalist stance.

    Corbyn is a classic socialist, an egalitarian, a believer in nationalized industry ran for the good of the public, a believer in more open borders due to the old school globalist socialist view of a proletariat not bound by countries, in general a focus on class not nationality.
    Stalin and Lenin were both undoubtedly communists but Lenin placed a much bigger emphasis on the idea of the global proletariat.

    Justin Treadeu is an example of a classic Liberal, big on open borders and free trade, big on private enterprise. Where he is very much not liberal is in relation to hate speech laws and restrictions on free speech.
    I would argue thats a product of being Canadian, not been living there long but its a deeply conformist society in a way Ireland and the UK aren't, its hard to explain how a place can be very diverse but also conformist but it is here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    demfad wrote: »
    The problem is that Russia through producing fake news sites, hacking and selectively leaking, using trolls and bots to bring false stories to prominence are poisoning democratic discussion and elections.
    Do you mean that Russians rigged US elections by exposing how Hillary was rigging US elections?
    EU/US have plenty of state funded fake news outlets, like BBC, Voice of America, Radio Liberty, Radio Free Europe, Deutsche Welle, who transmit their propaganda to Russia, but it doesn't work very well after their biased coverage events in Ukraine
    demfad wrote: »
    The fact that the US has done similar in the past does not make it acceptable.
    Why?
    demfad wrote: »
    The objective in Europe is clearly to destroy the EU for the benefit of Russia.
    The objective in Russia is clearly to destroy the Russia for the benefit of EU. Worked very well in 1990's during Yeltsin rule
    demfad wrote: »
    Most people should not accept a foreign malign dictatorship trying to destroy their childrens future.
    Why Russian should accept foreign politician trying to destroy their children's future?
    demfad wrote: »
    Also beating up on homosexuals, women and minorities may be acceptable in Putin's Russia but it is not acceptable in democratic and liberal countries.
    And why so little attention paid to the Persian Gulf monarchies?
    demfad wrote: »
    Also, can you substantiate please any evidence of subterfuge from the EU (Brussels) in Russia. No fake stories please.
    5 millions for pro-EU opposition in Russia in 2013 directly from Brussels. Probably much more by now
    http://www.epd.eu/wp-content/uploads/FRIDE-PB_164_Can_the_EU_help_foster_democracy_in_Russia.pdf

    demfad wrote: »
    What inconvenient truths are circulated by RT, Sputnik and the hundreds of sites that amplify Russian fake news. What inconvenient truths to the army of Russian trolls based in Pertograd tell us?
    And how big is this "army"?
    demfad wrote: »
    That 3 million people voted illegally in the US election?
    The only article on Russia Today which is mentioning voting illegals refers to Trump speech
    The rest came from alt-right who become ballistic after Obama tried to encourage illegal immigrants to vote
    demfad wrote: »
    That Obama actually created ISIS?
    Did you watch his interview on CNN yesterday?
    demfad wrote: »
    What are the inconvenient truths?
    Everything what contradicts EU/US propaganda


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    demfad wrote: »
    That's a terrible combination of sources to "prove" anything about Russia. They are both very much agenda led organisations.
    There's no reason why Europe shouldn't have a common and integrated defense policy and strategy however no matter what the political or economic relationship between the countries in Europe is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Mod:
    If every media source is going to be dismissed as msm/liberal propaganda or Russian shill pieces then there's no point in anybody linking to anything ever!

    Debate the articles or provide media articles that contradict them.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Here's another story I posted in a similar thread which shows russian hackers are planting child pornography on people's computers who happen to oppose putin,
    The stories then turn up on Sputnik and rt .

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/world/europe/vladimir-putin-russia-fake-news-hacking-cybersecurity.html

    As always with these threads the common denominator is oh America did this and America did that so it's all fine and dandy that russia can do it ,
    Then the thread disruptions begin and alternative historic facts are posted hoping to completely side track the original discussion


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    demfad wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Jeremy_Corbyn



    You see there is a difference between globalist and liberal now?
    The far right agenda is clearly to tar both with the same brush: to set back years of equality and human rights under the pretense of an anti-globalist stance.

    I said he was a socialist not a liberal.


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