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Russian and alt-right Interference in democracies.

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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    K-9 wrote: »
    Mod:
    Leave the modding to the mods, thank you.

    I'd suggest looking up fallacy, fallacy. Stating something doesn't make logical sense without saying why is actually a logical fallacy itself. It's just a fancy way of saying "you are wrong".

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

    Good podcast on it here:
    https://youarenotsosmart.com/2016/01/22/yanss-067-the-fallacy-fallacy/
    Where does the mod message end here or is there a mod warning for every time you see what you perceive as a logical fallacy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Where does the mod message end here or is there a mod warning for every time you see what you perceive as a logical fallacy?

    That would be a bit silly as everybody commits logical fallacies.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Was not just the Alt Right that voted for Trump many non rightists voted for him too. Disaffected people with no party affiliations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    I've already said that everybody influenced it!
    Now, did they "interfere" in it as per the thread title? How exactly did they undermine US democracy itself?

    Im agreeing with you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Good article on how Russian disinformation influenced the US body politic since 2014. http://warontherocks.com/2016/11/trolling-for-trump-how-russia-is-trying-to-destroy-our-democracy/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Global Affairs Council poll today has Americans negative view of Russia back at cold war levels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    I think Donald Trump wants to resume the goodwill that existed between Russia and the west, in the brief period between the cold war and the resumption of historic suspicions. If so, that would be great. After all, the only reason those historic suspicions were kept alive was because some bored civil servants on Capitol Hill were afraid of being consigned to the dustbin of history along with the belligerence that kept them in a job. I think the British agent M in the recent Bond movies showed an attitude that accurately portrays such individuals in real life. This is the line: "(blasphemy) ..... I miss the cold war."


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    I think Donald Trump wants to resume the goodwill that existed between Russia and the west, in the brief period between the cold war and the resumption of historic suspicions. If so, that would be great. After all, the only reason those historic suspicions were kept alive was because some bored civil servants on Capitol Hill were afraid of being consigned to the dustbin of history along with the belligerence that kept them in a job. I think the British agent M in the recent Bond movies showed an attitude that accurately portrays such individuals in real life. This is the line: "(blasphemy) ..... I miss the cold war."

    I think the Russian sustained cyber attack on the American body politic since 2014 at least may have something to do with it (link in post 66)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    demfad wrote: »
    I think the Russian sustained cyber attack on the American body politic since 2014 at least may have something to do with it (link in post 66)
    Even if that were so, the west has been trying to pick a fight with Russia for decades.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    demfad wrote: »
    I think the Russian sustained cyber attack on the American body politic since 2014 at least may have something to do with it (link in post 66)

    Couldn't it very reasonably be argued that the Russians have been acting in response to the huge build up and emplacement of American Cyber War/Surveillance.
    The Equation Group which is likely a US intelligence front, deployed Stuxnet in 2010 which targeted a foreign companies equipment.
    The use of PRISM (what snowden revealed)

    And as the Shadow Brokers (Russian Intelligence front) revealed that the Americans have known about exploits in one of the biggest american hardware manufacturers (Cisco) and not informed the company.

    Basically my view is that its not simply one side escalating things, for a non digital intervention the funding and support for both revolutions in Ukraine e.g the Orange Revolution and Euromaidan.

    Neither side is saints here or respecting the others integrity, its unfortunate but one can hope that with Trump's coming to power maybe things will calm down a bit, they will likely escalate in china but that should have less negative impact on Europe.
    By the way if this is considered as a Pro-Trump, Pro-Putin consider that Nord Stream 2 still has support from Germany so its not like we can't normalize things with Russia if its in our interests.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭SILVAMAN


    Just published by the The Office of the Director of National Intelligence

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/06/us/politics/document-russia-hacking-report-intelligence-agencies.html

    Trump grudgingly accepting it might be true.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    SILVAMAN wrote: »
    Just published by the The Office of the Director of National Intelligence

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/06/us/politics/document-russia-hacking-report-intelligence-agencies.html

    Trump grudgingly accepting it might be true.

    Flipflopping like a dying mackerel. Expect more of the same from the bigly huuuge Precedent of the United States of America.


  • Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭johnp001


    SILVAMAN wrote: »
    Just published by the The Office of the Director of National Intelligence

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/06/us/politics/document-russia-hacking-report-intelligence-agencies.html

    Trump grudgingly accepting it might be true.
    Could you point to the reference of the grudging acceptance within that 25 page document? I read Trump's latest statement as printed in the nyt and it didn't seem to indicate any change of his position based on the briefing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    johnp001 wrote: »
    Could you point to the reference of the grudging acceptance within that 25 page document? I read Trump's latest statement as printed in the nyt and it didn't seem to indicate any change of his position based on the briefing.

    Trump said that report showed The RNC wasn't hacked and that the hack had no effect on the election outcome. Both lies. The report consludes with high confidence that RNC servers were also hacked. The report categorically states that they did not investigate how the interference affected the election. If they did they would have noted that Trump mentioned the Wikileaks over 140 times in the last month before the election.

    Edit: Also, Priubus claiming to speak for Trump says that he (Trump) accepted that Russia was involved in this particular occasion. It seems Trump or his team (Kelly Anne Conway on Saturday) will not say the words that Russia was behind the hacking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    SILVAMAN wrote: »
    Just published by the The Office of the Director of National Intelligence

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/06/us/politics/document-russia-hacking-report-intelligence-agencies.html

    Trump grudgingly accepting it might be true.
    Seems to be mostly a rant against RT's growing market share in USA and UK, combined with the fairly obvious observation that Putin preferred Trump over Clinton.

    On the alleged electoral interference the report thinks Russian actors "obtained access to state or local electoral boards" but not systems "involved in vote tallying". Not much detail there, but presumably that means they think RT and/or Putin were monitoring the election results as they came in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    recedite wrote: »
    Seems to be mostly a rant against RT's growing market share in USA and UK,

    What growing market is that


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Gatling wrote: »
    What growing market is that
    Mostly You Tube views and the like. They have gathered loads of stats for the report.
    Mind you, its not exactly rocket science reading off the number of "views" on a You Tube video.
    I suppose the NSA CIA and FBI were a bit short of concrete facts and figures for the report though, so it all helps.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    recedite wrote: »
    Mostly You Tube views and the like. They have gathered loads of stats for the report.
    Mind you, its not exactly rocket science reading off the number of "views" on a You Tube video.
    I suppose the NSA CIA and FBI were a bit short of concrete facts and figures for the report though, so it all helps.

    To be fair I've seen friends on Facebook posting Russia today videos, taking the Piss out of them.

    They have diffently got more traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    recedite wrote: »
    Mostly You Tube views and the like.

    Market share in YouTube videos views strangest thing I've read in a while .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Its a strange report.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭mbur


    recedite wrote: »
    Its a strange report.
    But it has a purpose and it is nothing to do with Russia.

    http://blackagendareport.com/node/5501


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    SILVAMAN wrote: »
    Just published by the The Office of the Director of National Intelligence

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/06/us/politics/document-russia-hacking-report-intelligence-agencies.html

    Trump grudgingly accepting it might be true.
    The only question remains why DNC denied FBI direct access to servers and preferred to pass investigation to private company
    https://twitter.com/Pamela_Moore13/status/818920115353874432


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭Shane St.


    Is this real life? LOL


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Billy86 wrote: »

    Except it almost certainly didn't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    So apparently 4chan created the document and CNN published it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    So after digging a bit it seems 4chan created the document, gave it to buzzfeed as a top informer/source, then buzzfeed published it and other media like CNN have ran with it.

    No confirmation though, but you've have to assume stuff like below is a pisstake.

    https://i.sli.mg/GCn6HC.jpg

    Does anyone have a link to a Government official or some other source confirming it's real? Part of me is still concerned it might be true so just want to be sure.

    https://i.sli.mg/3UN0TD.png < 4chan claim of what happened.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    So after digging a bit it seems 4chan created the document, gave it to buzzfeed as a top informer/source, then buzzfeed published it and other media like CNN have ran with it.

    No confirmation though, but you've have to assume stuff like below is a pisstake.

    https://i.sli.mg/GCn6HC.jpg

    Does anyone have a link to a Government official or some other source confirming it's real? Part of me is still concerned it might be true so just want to be sure.

    Ah,thats nuts...hentai...japanese cartoon porn...wtf,its just getting silly now


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