Russian and alt-right Interference in democracies.

Gatling

Katiefe wrote: »

Supposedly now the EU is warning that Russia has plans to target elections there through spreading fake news

Why do you think they are directly supporting far right groups across Europe and the Baltics ,
Just ask why a russian front bank gave le pen millions in loans then folded when it came under investigation for dodgy dealings ,
Putin needs a broken up Europe to keep him in a job ,
His biggest threat is European freedoms and European living standards and salary's

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

Just ask why a russian front bank gave le pen millions in loans then folded when it came under investigation for dodgy dealings ,

"dodgy dealings" ... That's quite a serious allegation don't you think?, please provide a link or evidence that this bank folded due to dodgy dealings.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

"dodgy dealings" ... That's quite a serious allegation don't you think?,

No that's fact ,
First Czech-Russian Bank considered to be a Kremlin front is currently under several investigations

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

No that's fact ,
First Czech-Russian Bank considered to be a Kremlin front is currently under several investigations

1. Please explain how a bank can be a Kremlin front.
2. Please go into more detail about these "investigations".

The FCRB had insolvency problems like so many other European banks.

demfad

Gatling wrote: »

Why do you think they are directly supporting far right groups across Europe and the Baltics ,
Just ask why a russian front bank gave le pen millions in loans then folded when it came under investigation for dodgy dealings ,
Putin needs a broken up Europe to keep him in a job ,
His biggest threat is European freedoms and European living standards and salary's

Breaking up the EU also gives Putin a chance to destabilise Nato. This is also a twin objective of Trump Bannon.
As well as funding far right groups across Europe with a special bonus when they endorsed the annexation of Crimea (eg 9 million loan to Front Nationale) Putin has formed alliances with some of these groups including the far right Austrian party last week.
With Russian interference guaranteed and the alt right machine of Breitbart and Cambridge Analytica rolling in, we can see Russian/Alt-right interference in many upcoming elections unless this is addressed.

*Dont let the name Cambridge Analytica roll past you. They had detailed intel on all 220million american Adults pre election, predicting what message they needed to hear whether to vote Trump or keep Clinton supporters inside. They can tailor this intel re facebook ads, and also have an app that tells canvassers exactly who was living in the next house and what message they should here: Check this out https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/

KingBrian2

demfad wrote: »

Breaking up the EU also gives Putin a chance to destabilise Nato. This is also a twin objective of Trump Bannon.
As well as funding far right groups across Europe with a special bonus when they endorsed the annexation of Crimea (eg 9 million loan to Front Nationale) Putin has formed alliances with some of these groups including the far right Austrian party last week.
With Russian interference guaranteed and the alt right machine of Breitbart and Cambridge Analytica rolling in, we can see Russian/Alt-right interference in many upcoming elections unless this is addressed.

*Dont let the name Cambridge Analytica roll past you. They had detailed intel on all 220million american Adults pre election, predicting what message they needed to hear whether to vote Trump or keep Clinton supporters inside. They can tailor this intel re facebook ads, and also have an app that tells canvassers exactly who was living in the next house and what message they should here: Check this out https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/

What you say makes no sense. Why would Trump be supporting extreme right wing groups in Europe with the backing of the Russian gvt? His main concern is the rise of Islamic terrorism which he shares with Putin.

NATO is not the organisation it once was and many in Europe do not feel safe under its protection which Trump himself pointed out in his many speeches, it was NATO bases from which US forces attacked Libya and left Europe open to a wave of refugees.

KingBrian2

323 wrote: »

Aye, quite a bit of that in the media now. Absolute rubbish. The EU is coming apart at the seams, largly its own doing due to its ignorance of its citizenry and lack of democracy to name just a few.

They know they wont be able to make the Germans, French or Dutch vote again, or ignore the results of democratic elections because they don't like the outcome as in Portugal. So instead there blaming everyone but themselves.

Believed in the EEC/EU once but think the quote "If your life isn't going as planned, take a look at yourself before blaming everyone around you" sums up what the EU has become.

With the UK leaving that might change seeing as they were in the operating seat for the last half century and have always been trying to undermine European consensus & free market controls. A policy that continues to this day in spite of them leaving the bloc.

johnp001

Seymour Hersh on Russian interference in US election claims

The Intercept wrote:

SEYMOUR HERSH BLASTS MEDIA FOR UNCRITICALLY PROMOTING RUSSIAN HACKING STORY

PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING journalist Seymour Hersh said in an interview that he does not believe the U.S. intelligence community proved its case that President Vladimir Putin directed a hacking campaign aimed at securing the election of Donald Trump. He blasted news organizations for lazily broadcasting the assertions of U.S. intelligence officials as established facts.


The Intercept’s Jeremy Scahill speaks with Seymour Hersh at his home in Washington, D.C. two days after Donald Trump’s inauguration.

Hersh denounced news organizations as “crazy town” for their uncritical promotion of the pronouncements of the director of national intelligence and the CIA, given their track records of lying and misleading the public.

“The way they behaved on the Russia stuff was outrageous,” Hersh said when I sat down with him at his home in Washington, D.C., two days after Trump was inaugurated. “They were just so willing to believe stuff. And when the heads of intelligence give them that summary of the allegations, instead of attacking the CIA for doing that, which is what I would have done,” they reported it as fact. Hersh said most news organizations missed an important component of the story: “the extent to which the White House was going and permitting the agency to go public with the assessment.”

Hersh said many media outlets failed to provide context when reporting on the intelligence assessment made public in the waning days of the Obama administration that was purported to put to rest any doubt that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the hacking of the DNC and Clinton campaign manager John Podesta’s emails.

The declassified version of the report, which was released January 7 and dominated the news for days, charged that Putin “ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election” and “aspired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him.” According to the report, the NSA was said to have had a lower confidence level than James Clapper and the CIA about the conclusion that Russia intended to influence the election. Hersh characterized the report as full of assertions and thin on evidence.
More...

demfad

KingBrian2 wrote: »

What you say makes no sense. Why would Trump be supporting extreme right wing groups in Europe with the backing of the Russian gvt? His main concern is the rise of Islamic terrorism which he shares with Putin.

Steve Bannon has openly said he wants to use the Trump apparatus of big data psychological profiling 'Cambridge analytica', Breitbart news and the power of the Whitehouse to influence upcoming European elections. Marine LePen and the leader of the Austrain far right both visisted him in Trump tower recently. As Bannon writes Trumps speeches and executive orders you can take Bannon=Trump.

An objective of Putin is to destroy the EU as a means to weaken Nato. He has funded the same far right parties that Bannon has vowed to help.

demfad

3rd Russian Cyber operative arrested in Moscow as US agents:

http://www.rferl.org/a/russia-fsb-agent-arrested-u-s-election-hacking/28261397.html

red ears

demfad wrote: »

Steve Bannon has openly said he wants to use the Trump apparatus of big data psychological profiling 'Cambridge analytica', Breitbart news and the power of the Whitehouse to influence upcoming European elections. Marine LePen and the leader of the Austrain far right both visisted him in Trump tower recently. As Bannon writes Trumps speeches and executive orders you can take Bannon=Trump.

An objective of Putin is to destroy the EU as a means to weaken Nato. He has funded the same far right parties that Bannon has vowed to help.

By destroying the EU they will be helping save European countries from ruin. After the EU falls we will go back to controlling our own borders and deciding who can and can't come in. We should see a return to sensible immigration policies much like that of Australia. If the EU continues as is and we have another 10 or 20 years of mass immigration from Africa and the middle east then services in EU countries will be in a mess. The cost of welfare will skyrocket, there will be a lack of accommodation, school places, hospital beds etc etc.

demfad

red ears wrote: »

By destroying the EU they will be helping save European countries from ruin. After the EU falls we will go back to controlling our own borders and deciding who can and can't come in. We should see a return to sensible immigration policies much like that of Australia. If the EU continues as is and we have another 10 or 20 years of mass immigration from Africa and the middle east then services in EU countries will be in a mess. The cost of welfare will skyrocket, there will be a lack of accommodation, school places, hospital beds etc etc.

The recent mass refugee crises was due to a massive war in Syria and disturbances in North Africa. The refugee crises was the biggest (non World War) movement of people since the Irish famine.
If Ireland for example were to leave the EU, ALL of the things yoiu suggest would happen within 12 months. Stop being ridiculous.

red ears

demfad wrote: »

The recent mass refugee crises was due to a massive war in Syria and disturbances in North Africa. The refugee crises was the biggest (non World War) movement of people since the Irish famine.
If Ireland for example were to leave the EU, ALL of the things yoiu suggest would happen within 12 months. Stop being ridiculous.

How do you explain the boats full of sub Saharan Africans we see being rescued from the med. Or the people coming from Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. The system is being abused.

BTW it need not stop next year it just can't continue as it is for the next 20 or 30 years. Do you think people from these countries (including safe african countries) will just stop coming. The more of their people arrive and settle the more attractive it becomes for their country-folk to do the same. They will have ready made neighbourhoods to move into. Neighborhoods with old country culture but with western welfare and job opportunities.

demfad

red ears wrote: »

How do you explain the boats full of sub Saharan Africans we see being rescued from the med. Or the people coming from Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. The system is being abused.

BTW it need not stop next year it just can't continue as it is for the next 20 or 30 years. Do you think people from these countries (including safe african countries) will just stop coming. The more of their people arrive and settle the more attractive it becomes for their country-folk to do the same. They will have ready made neighbourhoods to move into. Neighborhoods with old country culture but with western welfare and job opportunities.

The crises coincided with the war in Syria and was not apparent before then. You have no substantiation for any of your claims: until you do we can safely assume they are just lazy prejudices

Elmer Blooker

demfad wrote: »

The recent mass refugee crises was due to a massive war in Syria and disturbances in North Africa.

"disturbances" .... Is that the current media buzzword for the wanton destruction of Libya by NATO? You forgot to mention Iraq and Afghanistan for contributing to the refugee crisis.

KingBrian2

demfad wrote: »

Steve Bannon has openly said he wants to use the Trump apparatus of big data psychological profiling 'Cambridge analytica', Breitbart news and the power of the Whitehouse to influence upcoming European elections. Marine LePen and the leader of the Austrain far right both visisted him in Trump tower recently. As Bannon writes Trumps speeches and executive orders you can take Bannon=Trump.

An objective of Putin is to destroy the EU as a means to weaken Nato. He has funded the same far right parties that Bannon has vowed to help.

Trump team can say what they like they don't influence events on the ground in Europe Le Pen is a consequence of social problem within French communities. The dislocation Muslims have with European gvt such as allowing refugees into Europe without vetting and Belgium, British & French Jihadists going off to fight in Syria where they have no right to be. This is the crisis in Europe and Trump & Putin are only taken notice of what is being reported.

demfad

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump team can say what they like they don't influence events on the ground in Europe Le Pen is a consequence of social problem within French communities. The dislocation Muslims have with European gvt such as allowing refugees into Europe without vetting and Belgium, British & French Jihadists going off to fight in Syria where they have no right to be. This is the crisis in Europe and Trump & Putin are only taken notice of what is being reported.

Trump team funding LePen with big data cambridge analytica, propaganda from Breitbart Paris and hundreds of other alt-right websites; Working in tandem with Russian hacking and dumps on disfavoured candidates, consuming media time, favouring Putin candidate, attack adds amplified by the army of Petrograd trolls. US and Russia can target attack adds at an amazingly granular level on social media and door to door with the big data tailored for election and personality prediction that Cambridge provides.
If you think that this will not and has not affected elections you are naive, dishonest, dumb or some combination.

demfad

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

"disturbances" .... Is that the current media buzzword for the wanton destruction of Libya by NATO? You forgot to mention Iraq and Afghanistan for contributing to the refugee crisis.

The point is that these are coming from wartorn countries ergo refugees.
The poster has no substantiation that this stream will last 30 years or that this would be more problematic to EU resources than the destruction of the EU.

KingBrian2

demfad wrote: »

Trump team funding LePen with big data cambridge analytica, propaganda from Breitbart Paris and hundreds of other alt-right websites; Working in tandem with Russian hacking and dumps on disfavoured candidates, consuming media time, favouring Putin candidate, attack adds amplified by the army of Petrograd trolls. US and Russia can target attack adds at an amazingly granular level on social media and door to door with the big data tailored for election and personality prediction that Cambridge provides.
If you think that this will not and has not affected elections you are naive, dishonest, dumb or some combination.

What you say can be done by both sides the Republican party in America have a far right wing fringe and collaborates with Neo-Nazis in Europe as do the Russian far right. White Supremacy and Eurosceptic organisations have been around for a very long time trying to weaken and wreck Europe from the inside. Putin & Trump might have vague sympathies for anti EU sentiment this does not descend to openly wanting to dismantle the EU. Much of the hostility to European integration is internal with Le Pen, Geert Wilders & Farage courting the non European actors. They are pushing Russia & the US into investing themselves in undermining the EU as their interest align with a continent composed of superpowers making decisions as was done in the past and ignoring terrible mistakes of the past.

red ears

demfad wrote: »

The crises coincided with the war in Syria and was not apparent before then. You have no substantiation for any of your claims: until you do we can safely assume they are just lazy prejudices

People are coming from countries with no wars, they are economic migrants. There is no reason to believe this will stop unless we actively change laws to stop it. Trump is doing that in America, May will be doing that in UK and hopefully Wilders and Le Pen start the ball rolling for the EU.

scruffy66

demfad wrote: »

Breaking up the EU also gives Putin a chance to destabilise Nato. This is also a twin objective of Trump Bannon.
As well as funding far right groups across Europe with a special bonus when they endorsed the annexation of Crimea (eg 9 million loan to Front Nationale) Putin has formed alliances with some of these groups including the far right Austrian party last week.
With Russian interference guaranteed and the alt right machine of Breitbart and Cambridge Analytica rolling in, we can see Russian/Alt-right interference in many upcoming elections unless this is addressed.

*Dont let the name Cambridge Analytica roll past you. They had detailed intel on all 220million american Adults pre election, predicting what message they needed to hear whether to vote Trump or keep Clinton supporters inside. They can tailor this intel re facebook ads, and also have an app that tells canvassers exactly who was living in the next house and what message they should here: Check this out https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/

Did you ever think of trying Colonic Irrigation , apparently it's good for clearing
Lots of **** out of you,no offence but sometimes people just need sound
Medical advice

scruffy66

red ears wrote: »

By destroying the EU they will be helping save European countries from ruin. After the EU falls we will go back to controlling our own borders and deciding who can and can't come in. We should see a return to sensible immigration policies much like that of Australia. If the EU continues as is and we have another 10 or 20 years of mass immigration from Africa and the middle east then services in EU countries will be in a mess. The cost of welfare will skyrocket, there will be a lack of accommodation, school places, hospital beds etc etc.

Ah red ears , maybe all the Conquerored Countries of the world should have
A just Reparations DAY, where the wealth that the imperial countries garnered
From their slave countries where returned, then maybe these people would not leave their abodes to trouble the likes of you!.

323

demfad wrote: »

Breaking up the EU also gives Putin a chance to destabilise Nato. This is also a twin objective of Trump Bannon.
As well as funding far right groups across Europe with a special bonus when they endorsed the annexation of Crimea (eg 9 million loan to Front Nationale) Putin has formed alliances with some of these groups including the far right Austrian party last week.
With Russian interference guaranteed and the alt right machine of Breitbart and Cambridge Analytica rolling in, we can see Russian/Alt-right interference in many upcoming elections unless this is addressed.

*Dont let the name Cambridge Analytica roll past you. They had detailed intel on all 220million american Adults pre election, predicting what message they needed to hear whether to vote Trump or keep Clinton supporters inside. They can tailor this intel re facebook ads, and also have an app that tells canvassers exactly who was living in the next house and what message they should here: Check this out https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/

Is that such a bad thing?
Under its original mandate NATO has had no justification for existence for nearly 30 years.
The end of the cold war represented the successful completion of all NATO's original objectives:basically the collective security of the original 16 members from the (leftist) Soviet Block.

KingBrian2

323 wrote: »

Is that such a bad thing?
Under its original mandate NATO has had no justification for existence for nearly 30 years.
The end of the cold war represented the successful completion of all NATO's original objectives:basically the collective security of the original 16 members from the (leftist) Soviet Block.

People can't seem to get over the cold war. Not surprised really the number of people employed by the arms industry to promote a cold war is huge. Think Tanks and Foundations dedicated to starting global wars and restarting old wars. Propaganda and literature all designed to further the cause of warfare.

PopePalpatine

KingBrian2 wrote: »

People can't seem to get over the cold war. Not surprised really the number of people employed by the arms industry to promote a cold war is huge. Think Tanks and Foundations dedicated to starting global wars and restarting old wars. Propaganda and literature all designed to further the cause of warfare.

Like Putin?

Honestly, everything you've said above can be easily applied to Putin and his regime.

KingBrian2

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Like Putin?

Honestly, everything you've said above can be easily applied to Putin and his regime.

Oh give me a break still on Putin. For the last time the US and others engineered regime change in dozens of countries around the world and Republicans don't even impose sanctions on Israel a far bigger offender of international justice. Spare me the Putin is a cold war hawk. The world has copped on to the hypocrisy over Pres Vladimir Putin.

scruffy66

red ears wrote: »

People are coming from countries with no wars, they are economic migrants. There is no reason to believe this will stop unless we actively change laws to stop it. Trump is doing that in America, May will be doing that in UK and hopefully Wilders and Le Pen start the ball rolling for the EU.

Sincere apologies red ears for my drunken late night rant at you.
Posting while pissed is a bad combination, I'll try and refrain from it in future.

scruffy66

demfad wrote: »

Breaking up the EU also gives Putin a chance to destabilise Nato. This is also a twin objective of Trump Bannon.
As well as funding far right groups across Europe with a special bonus when they endorsed the annexation of Crimea (eg 9 million loan to Front Nationale) Putin has formed alliances with some of these groups including the far right Austrian party last week.
With Russian interference guaranteed and the alt right machine of Breitbart and Cambridge Analytica rolling in, we can see Russian/Alt-right interference in many upcoming elections unless this is addressed.

*Dont let the name Cambridge Analytica roll past you. They had detailed intel on all 220million american Adults pre election, predicting what message they needed to hear whether to vote Trump or keep Clinton supporters inside. They can tailor this intel re facebook ads, and also have an app that tells canvassers exactly who was living in the next house and what message they should here: Check this out https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/

Apologies to you aswell demfad for my late night drunken rant,
Everybody is entitled to their opinions, I should refrain from having to much alcohol while posting,
While Putin maybe a bad person or worse , he is no hitler and people need
To understand that if Putin is gone someone worse might replace him.

In the words of the irish criminal the general , if you think I'm bad
Wait till you see what's coming after me and history has proven
That prophecy to have come true

KingBrian2

scruffy66 wrote: »

Apologies to you aswell demfad for my late night drunken rant,
Everybody is entitled to their opinions, I should refrain from having to much alcohol while posting,
While Putin maybe a bad person or worse , he is no hitler and people need
To understand that if Putin is gone someone worse might replace him.

In the words of the irish criminal the general , if you think I'm bad
Wait till you see what's coming after me and history has proven
That prophecy to have come true

Aside from the fact that Russia is trying to get the Syrians to work together to rebuild their country but no the terrorist sponsors are somehow better allies than Russia who wants good relations with America & Europe.

scruffy66

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Aside from the fact that Russia is trying to get the Syrians to work together to rebuild their country but no the terrorist sponsors are somehow better allies than Russia who wants good relations with America & Europe.

I believe Russia and Putin would rather come in from the cold and be seen
As great power inside the American / European tent so to speak, this would then
Give it the kind of influence and legitimacy it craves.
I don't believe Europe or America would want this,
Russia as a genuine partner could go along way to solving a lot of conflicts
Around the world.

This would not be good for the arms industry and besides that , the
Idea of Russia being a big player on the world stage would run counter
To America's idea of dominance .
I'm very sceptical of U.S. And European motives as I see this being played
Out in the press.

( I'm not pro Russian , left wing, or a socialist , just an interested observer )

KingBrian2

scruffy66 wrote: »

I believe Russia and Putin would rather come in from the cold and be seen
As great power inside the American / European tent so to speak, this would then
Give it the kind of influence and legitimacy it craves.
I don't believe Europe or America would want this,
Russia as a genuine partner could go along way to solving a lot of conflicts
Around the world.

This would not be good for the arms industry and besides that , the
Idea of Russia being a big player on the world stage would run counter
To America's idea of dominance .
I'm very sceptical of U.S. And European motives as I see this being played
Out in the press.

( I'm not pro Russian , left wing, or a socialist , just an interested observer )

I don't agree with one or a handful of powers dominating the world. I do see good be achieved when the world leaders can come together and fix the major problems of the earth. Islamic Terrorism can be combated by the major powers working together but we see a lot vested interests very much against this and the rights of nations to determine their own affairs.

scruffy66

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I don't agree with one or a handful of powers dominating the world. I do see good be achieved when the world leaders can come together and fix the major problems of the earth. Islamic Terrorism can be combated by the major powers working together but we see a lot vested interests very much against this and the rights of nations to determine their own affairs.

The press are Kremlin baiting Trump says Stephen Cohen,
Great interview on John Bachelor radio show,
I wish we had radio like this, in this back water!

http://podbay.fm/show/589864479/e/1485317961?autostart=1

demfad

scruffy66 wrote: »

I believe Russia and Putin would rather come in from the cold and be seen
As great power inside the American / European tent so to speak, this would then
Give it the kind of influence and legitimacy it craves.
I don't believe Europe or America would want this,
Russia as a genuine partner could go along way to solving a lot of conflicts
Around the world.

This would not be good for the arms industry and besides that , the
Idea of Russia being a big player on the world stage would run counter
To America's idea of dominance .
I'm very sceptical of U.S. And European motives as I see this being played
Out in the press.

( I'm not pro Russian , left wing, or a socialist , just an interested observer )

Russia wants to destroy the EU and Nato. If it takes it's troops out of Ukraine then the sanctions are stopped. Whats the problem here? They cant have their cake and eat it.

demfad

323 wrote: »

Is that such a bad thing?
Under its original mandate NATO has had no justification for existence for nearly 30 years.
The end of the cold war represented the successful completion of all NATO's original objectives:basically the collective security of the original 16 members from the (leftist) Soviet Block.

Russias recent subversion of the US election, the 14th such subversion in recent years together with the invasion of Ukraine tells us that Europe is not safe from Russian aggression.

demfad

scruffy66 wrote: »

Did you ever think of trying Colonic Irrigation , apparently it's good for clearing
Lots of **** out of you,no offence but sometimes people just need sound
Medical advice

Doesn't seem to Have worked for you.

demfad

scruffy66 wrote: »

Apologies to you aswell demfad for my late night drunken rant,
Everybody is entitled to their opinions, I should refrain from having to much alcohol while posting,
While Putin maybe a bad person or worse , he is no hitler and people need
To understand that if Putin is gone someone worse might replace him.

I regard the murder of 200 journalists to be pretty bad. Also the ongoing invasion of independent Ukraine with 20-30 deaths in the time since the phone-call to Trump.
Putin robbed Russia of a chance at democracy. He is an autocrat, in it for power. He ia a mass-murderer.

KingBrian2

Their was a article the other day in the Telegraph with the following headline. "The Eurozone must be destroyed" so you can hop up and down about the Russians but they are not the only ones to be undermining Europe.

Gatling

Oleg Erovinkin found dead in Moscow recently (December 26th ) to be exact.


Who's Oleg Erovinkin exactly

Well Mr Erovinkin was a key aide to Igor Sechin, a former deputy prime minister and now head of Rosneft, the state-owned oil company, who is repeatedly named in the dossier.

He has been described as a key liaison between Mr Sechin and Russian President Vladimir Putin

Now Igor sechin was repeatedly named in the recently leaked Christopher Steele dossier on trump
His body was found in mysterious circumstances in the back seat of his car , oddly the russians have claimed Mr Erovinkin died of a heart attack like another former putin friend who died in america which was described as a murder only for the russian authorities to declare a heart attack .

http://m.independent.ie/world-news/europe/kgb-chief-linked-to-trump-file-found-dead-amid-kremlin-cover-up-claims-35404816.html

scruffy66

demfad wrote: »

Russia wants to destroy the EU and Nato. If it takes it's troops out of Ukraine then the sanctions are stopped. Whats the problem here? They cant have their cake and eat it.

There is no evidence that Russia wants to destroy the EU, Why don't you go
One step further and blame Russia for the 2008 world recession .
I'm sure the Russians will be pulling its troops out of Ukraine soon but it will be
Under a negotiated settlement by which Russian security concerns will be acknowledged.

Look , some people will see Russia as being aggressive and others will see Russia as reacting to aggression, at the end of the day there will be a negotiated resolution that both sides can stomach. That's diplomacy .

As far as the cause of the Ukrainian crisis, I think John Mearsheimer has got
It right.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwKW7gDdeg

johnp001

scruffy66 wrote: »

There is no evidence that Russia wants to destroy the EU, Why don't you go
One step further and blame Russia for the 2008 world recession .
I'm sure the Russians will be pulling its troops out of Ukraine soon but it will be
Under a negotiated settlement by which Russian security concerns will be acknowledged.

Look , some people will see Russia as being aggressive and others will see Russia as reacting to aggression, at the end of the day there will be a negotiated resolution that both sides can stomach. That's diplomacy .

As far as the cause of the Ukrainian crisis, I think John Mearsheimer has got
It right.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwKW7gDdeg

Certainly the Soviet Union had an agenda to weaken NATO 30 years ago but there is no incentive for the current Russian government to try to create a destabilised and insecure continent.

An article on The Duran yesterday gives a more plausible alternative motive for the current poor state of East-West relations:

Jean-Michel Cosnuau wrote:

Prior to leaving office, Barack Obama did serious damage to the EU

Barack Obama left the US presidency with tears in his eyes. And while many Europeans were touched by his emotional behavior, Europe should not believe Obama’s tears.

Obama has caused serious damage to the European Union before leaving office, and many years will be needed to mitigate the impact of his emotional farewell. Prior to bursting into tears, Obama gave a cool-headed order for the American armed forces and armored vehicles to be urgently transferred to Germany’s Bremerhaven.

The Baltic republics and Poland were also mobilized to receive Pentagon’s battalions. The purpose of these moves was not to improve European security but to damage the European-Russian relations as much as possible prior to President-elect Donald Trump taking office.

Washington benefits from the situation when Moscow and Brussels are in conflict rather than when they are cooperating. Only together with Russia, with its capacity and market, the European Union has the potential to become a strong and independent player on the international stage.

A strong EU and Russia, together, are serious and uncomfortable competitors for the US. Obama’s mission was to drive a wedge between these neighbors and to disintegrate them. And unfortunately, he succeeded.

Now, when the US forces got as close to Russia’s borders as possible, the relations between Russia and Brussels reached the highest degree of confrontation. Moscow’s message is that expansion of the US presence in Europe destabilizes the security situation in that region. Basically, the Russians are forced to perceive Europe as a threat because of Obama’s political actions. As a result of this, sanctions, and disagreements over Ukraine, a rapid thaw in the EU-Russia relationship is out of the question, which is exactly what Obama counted on.
More...

demfad

johnp001 wrote: »

Certainly the Soviet Union had an agenda to weaken NATO 30 years ago but there is no incentive for the current Russian government to try to create a destabilised and insecure continent.
:

If Russia are not trying to destabilise the continent the why pray tell have they now, and for the last few days been firing shells and artillery, into the Ukrainian city of AVDIIVKA?

demfad

Gatling wrote: »

Oleg Erovinkin found dead in Moscow recently (December 26th ) to be exact.


Who's Oleg Erovinkin exactly

Well Mr Erovinkin was a key aide to Igor Sechin, a former deputy prime minister and now head of Rosneft, the state-owned oil company, who is repeatedly named in the dossier.

He has been described as a key liaison between Mr Sechin and Russian President Vladimir Putin

Now Igor sechin was repeatedly named in the recently leaked Christopher Steele dossier on trump
His body was found in mysterious circumstances in the back seat of his car , oddly the russians have claimed Mr Erovinkin died of a heart attack like another former putin friend who died in america which was described as a murder only for the russian authorities to declare a heart attack .

http://m.independent.ie/world-news/europe/kgb-chief-linked-to-trump-file-found-dead-amid-kremlin-cover-up-claims-35404816.html

Thanks for that.
The deal allegedly reported was made by Carter Page an advisor to Trump.
According to the dossier, for the sanctions against Russia to be dropped 19% of Russian State owned oil giant Rosfeln is on offer.
Just to note that a few weeks ago Rosfeln sold 19.5% of its shares to a conglomerate of shell companies. Strangely, Russian State bank AlfaBank lent the conglomerete the money to buy the shares.....

4 Russian spies have also been arrested for treason. The deputy head of cyberwarfare bundled out of a meeting with a brown bag over his head.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenkel/theres-something-very-weird-happening-inside-russias-cyberse?utm_term=.ys1goYR76#.adYMEd315

scruffy66

johnp001 wrote: »

Certainly the Soviet Union had an agenda to weaken NATO 30 years ago but there is no incentive for the current Russian government to try to create a destabilised and insecure continent.

An article on The Duran yesterday gives a more plausible alternative motive for the current poor state of East-West relations:

This was a cynical move by Obama , to damage European and Russian
relations even further and to scupper any chance that Trump might have to do Detente with Russia.Trump is determined to have a detente with Russia but has enemies all sides trying to stop It.

In his weekly radio interview , that john bachelor has been having with professor Stephen f Cohen for the last 4 years ,On the new Cold War , this week they discuss , The Foes of detente. It's well worth a listen

http://podbay.fm/show/589864479/e/1485922099?autostart=1

Harika

johnp001 wrote: »

Certainly the Soviet Union had an agenda to weaken NATO 30 years ago but there is no incentive for the current Russian government to try to create a destabilised and insecure continent.

Russia has all incentive to destabilize the EU, that's why they sponsor the far right movement like LePen in France and FPÖ in Austria. Those are EU skeptic parties that would love to see the EU demolished, but what is in for Russia in it?
A weak Europe won't be able to stand up against Russia's military interventions in eastern Europe. The sanctions are working, but without this economic power behind them, they become toothless. When the EU is divided and in shambles, Putin can be the savior and bring back the lost sheep into the new/old soviet empire.

johnp001

demfad wrote: »

If Russia are not trying to destabilise the continent the why pray tell have they now, and for the last few days been firing shells and artillery, into the Ukrainian city of AVDIIVKA?

I hadn't heard it reported that Russia was shelling Avdiivka. I know there is fighting there with the Ukrainian rebels.

Elmer Blooker

Harika wrote: »

Russia has all incentive to destabilize the EU, that's why they sponsor the far right movement like LePen in France and FPÖ in Austria. Those are EU skeptic parties that would love to see the EU demolished, but what is in for Russia in it?

You should have a look at this almost three years old link. Nowhere does it mention "Russia" as being behind the rise of Eurosceptic parties.
https://thinkprogress.org/meet-the-far-right-groups-wholl-decide-europe-s-future-da38915bfe09#.ufl4pd4pe
We should look at lot closer to home (hint: our nearest neighbours!) and not at Russia to see who wants the EU demolished!

Harika

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You should have a look at this almost three years old link. Nowhere does it mention "Russia" as being behind the rise of Eurosceptic parties.
https://thinkprogress.org/meet-the-far-right-groups-wholl-decide-europe-s-future-da38915bfe09#.ufl4pd4pe
We should look at lot closer to home (hint: our nearest neighbours!) and not at Russia to see who wants the EU demolished!

Look at this link in german of four weeks ago where support was agreed upon http://diepresse.com/home/innenpolitik/5136136/FPOe-schliesst-FuenfJahresVertrag-mit-KremlPartei a five year contract with Russia, in return the party mobilises against the sanctions. They are not behind the rise, but are massively pushing them. Also see: http://www.politico.eu/article/le-pen-russia-crimea-putin-money-bank-national-front-seeks-russian-cash-for-election-fight/

BoJack Horseman

Harika wrote: »

Look at this link in german of four weeks ago where support was agreed upon http://diepresse.com/home/innenpolitik/5136136/FPOe-schliesst-FuenfJahresVertrag-mit-KremlPartei a five year contract with Russia

Wow.... bought and sold.

You'd think they would be more subtle about it!

BoJack Horseman

scruffy66 wrote: »

This was a cynical move by Obama , to damage European and Russian
relations even further and to scupper any chance that Trump might have to do Detente with Russia.Trump is determined to have a detente with Russia but has enemies all sides trying to stop It.

In his weekly radio interview , that john bachelor has been having with professor Stephen f Cohen for the last 4 years ,On the new Cold War , this week they discuss , The Foes of detente. It's well worth a listen

http://podbay.fm/show/589864479/e/1485922099?autostart=1

Cohen is a very well known Putinista..... I listen to Batchelors pods every day at work & had a listen to this one....

to sum up the 40 mins, Cohen asserts that, "Russia hasn't crossed any borders".

No point wasting bandwidth listening to lies like that.

johnp001

Harika wrote: »

Russia has all incentive to destabilize the EU, that's why they sponsor the far right movement like LePen in France and FPÖ in Austria. Those are EU skeptic parties that would love to see the EU demolished, but what is in for Russia in it?
A weak Europe won't be able to stand up against Russia's military interventions in eastern Europe. The sanctions are working, but without this economic power behind them, they become toothless. When the EU is divided and in shambles, Putin can be the savior and bring back the lost sheep into the new/old soviet empire.

It depends on your definition of what constitutes "a weak Europe".
The EU has largely destabilised itself with uncontrolled immigration.
Putin has expressed strong reservations about this policy
'A society that can’t defend its children has no tomorrow': Putin condemns Europe’s handling of migrants and says the child rape in Austria shows 'a dilution of national values'
Vladimir Putin has spoken of disbelief in EU's handling of migrant crisis
He cited the case of a 10-year-old boy raped by an Iraqi migrant in Austria
Leader claimed that a society that can't defend its children has no future
He also added that it highlighted a 'dilution of national values in Europe'


Stable states in Europe are in Russia's interest whether they are part of a federated union like the EU or not. I don't think Russia is in a position economically or militarily to dominate Europe.