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Norwegian Air Discussion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Air Rianta and Aerlingus always took the view of Shannon as being the alternative state airport to Dublin. This decision was made by government rather than commercial enterprises. By the time they were privatized the status quo had been in place for decades. I haven't seen any logical argument as to why Shannon is so commercially viable for North American routes in comparison to Cork other than, it's always been this way so it must be true...

    Runway length.
    Fair point, probably should have been extended at some stage


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Don't be talking through your hat.Cork never had a transatlantic route which was a disgrace in itself.The population of Cork is greater than the whole of Connacht and a little under half of Dublin's.Why should we be travelling to Dublin and Shannon for flights?.There are thousands of workers in US companies in Cork.Finally,the Cork and Kerry region is the nicest part of the country.

    You're just afraid that the monopoly on Dublin will now be over.

    Population of Connacht - 542,547
    Population of County Cork - 542,196
    Population of County Dublin - 1,345,402

    So Cork doesn't have a larger population than Connacht or half the population of Dublin.

    And quite a few people from the West of Ireland would argue quite strongly about where the 'nicest part of the country' is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    The second Norwegian can get a foothold in Dublin, this Cork route will be gone. They've obviously discovered it's a useful trojan horse to get what they want.

    Don't be talking through your hat.Cork never had a transatlantic route which was a disgrace in itself.The population of Cork is greater than the whole of Connacht and a little under half of Dublin's.Why should we be travelling to Dublin and Shannon for flights?.There are thousands of workers in US companies in Cork.Finally,the Cork and Kerry region is the nicest part of the country.

    You're just afraid that the monopoly on Dublin will now be over.
    I appreciate somebody in the thread supporting the route but not a hope. Dublin Airport is just in a completely different league and even if the route is a roaring success it still will barely make a dent in Dublin's numbers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Deagol


    snotboogie wrote: »
    I've been following the aviation forums on here for years and I've never seen a route met with such negativity and scorn (the actual Cork Airport thread in the Cork forum is as bad). It's a clear punt worth taking for Cork Airport, they have essentially nothing to lose and the potential for direct North American links. Outside of North America I don't see where else the Airport can grow into?
    Question for Americans, why would you fly to Cork?
    Cork is the second most visited county by foreign tourists, with nearly 50% more than Clare and Limerick combined: http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/revealed-the-irish-counties-most-and-least-visited-by-overseas-tourists-35117642.html It's a more attractive tourist destination and it has far more American FDI than the Shannon region. Currently Shannon operates 5 routes to North America to Cork's zero. 
    Question is for Irish customers, why would you fly to Stewart? 
    Has Stewart been confirmed? I would imagine these routes are targeted at the 500K+ people living in Cork and the thousands in surrounding counties for whom Cork is the closest airport. Without any North American routes Cork is outperforming Shannon, it's set to move about 600K more passengers than Shannon this year.
    Despite all of this I'm still skeptical that it will work. Belfast International (which moves more than Cork and Shannon combined) just had it's only real North American route pulled but it's clearly worth a go from Cork Airports perspective and I don't know why it is met with such negativity here?

    The problem is that Cork and Shannon are competing against each other to the possible detriment of both.
    The worry is, that Norwegian will give EI a reason to pull out of Shannon and then they abandon Cork for Dublin.

    That would then leave the whole of the west of Ireland without a flight to Boston area and at the mercy of two american airlines (Delta and Continental) for the remainder (NYC and Newark).

    Does that explain the negativity?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Deagol wrote: »
    snotboogie wrote: »
    I've been following the aviation forums on here for years and I've never seen a route met with such negativity and scorn (the actual Cork Airport thread in the Cork forum is as bad). It's a clear punt worth taking for Cork Airport, they have essentially nothing to lose and the potential for direct North American links. Outside of North America I don't see where else the Airport can grow into?
    Question for Americans, why would you fly to Cork?
    Cork is the second most visited county by foreign tourists, with nearly 50% more than Clare and Limerick combined: http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/revealed-the-irish-counties-most-and-least-visited-by-overseas-tourists-35117642.html It's a more attractive tourist destination and it has far more American FDI than the Shannon region. Currently Shannon operates 5 routes to North America to Cork's zero. 
    Question is for Irish customers, why would you fly to Stewart? 
    Has Stewart been confirmed? I would imagine these routes are targeted at the 500K+ people living in Cork and the thousands in surrounding counties for whom Cork is the closest airport. Without any North American routes Cork is outperforming Shannon, it's set to move about 600K more passengers than Shannon this year.
    Despite all of this I'm still skeptical that it will work. Belfast International (which moves more than Cork and Shannon combined) just had it's only real North American route pulled but it's clearly worth a go from Cork Airports perspective and I don't know why it is met with such negativity here?

    The problem is that Cork and Shannon are competing against each other to the possible detriment of both.
    The worry is, that Norwegian will give EI a reason to pull out of Shannon and then they abandon Cork for Dublin.

    That would then leave the whole of the west of Ireland without a flight to Boston area and at the mercy of two american airlines (Delta and Continental) for the remainder (NYC and Newark).

    Does that explain the negativity?
    From the Shannon perspective yes it does but by far the majority of the negativity has come at Cork route rather than the Shannon one.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭fernrock


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Why do they need Shannon as a stepping stone to Dublin?

    Aer Lingus will use any excuse to pull out of Shannon, they never wanted it.
    Look at what they did a few years ago by moving their Heathrow slots to Belfast, but, our neighbours would not use an aircraft with a shamrock on the tail . So they crawled back to Shannon

    In the days of the compulsary transatlantic stop , they were using any excuse to over fly, even a wet runway would be used as an excuse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Full agree on the anti Cork negativity,I mean look at this rubbish from a few posts back.
    I think it's just a way of getting their foot in the door while they overcome all the regulatory hurdles, start off with a ORK-BOS service (or any other fanciful route pairing that no one else already does) so they can get the whole operation up and running with little or no objections. Once this one starts they can announce an expansion with a whole series of new routes out of DUB and SNN (which is the real prize) and then after a while just quietly drop the ORK-BOS route citing lack of customer demand.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Full agree on the anti Cork negativity,I mean look at this rubbish from a few posts back.

    I see nothing at all anti-Cork in that post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    You're just afraid that the monopoly on Dublin will now be over.
    it will stop some people routing from cork to US detinations via london etc anyway with the IAG group.

    Also this pre clearance scenario! I flew to vegas a few months back, via Gatwick, was out of the airport in under 10 minutes, just burst off the plane and got ahead of other passengers, used the automated immigration facility. Lets contrast this with Dublin, show up another two hours early to pre-clear, I know what I'd choose every time.

    There should be a facility in the states, where you can pay to fasttrack immigration...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Graham wrote: »
    I see nothing at all anti-Cork in that post.

    Well clearly Billy thinks TA flights don't make sense in Cork and we should all have to travel to Shannon even though Cork is the population centre for Munster.

    Would you not get pissed off if I suggested that Dubliners should travel to Belfast to get your TA flights?.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭jackinthemix94


    Well clearly Billy thinks TA flights don't make sense in Cork and we should all have to travel to Shannon even though Cork is the population centre for Munster.

    Would you not get pissed off if I suggested that Dubliners should travel to Belfast to get your TA flights?.

    Dublin Airport is one of the biggest in Europe, you need to have a serious rethink if you think a Boeing 737 that may or may not run a route from Cork is going to break any kind of "monopoly".

    Dublin isn't even competing with Cork or Shannon at this stage, it's competing with Heathrow, Frankfurt, Amsterdam and Paris. Cork and Shannon will be fighting it out for the remaining traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    The second Norwegian can get a foothold in Dublin, this Cork route will be gone. They've obviously discovered it's a useful trojan horse to get what they want.

    Can you explain yourself here a bit better so?.


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Rocko


    The negativity by some people here is amusingly annoying, every excuse why these flights will not happening has been used over the last few months on this forum and others.
    Typical Irish begrudgery.
    From a Cork point of view, I for one can't wait for these flights to take off no matter what airport they arrive at in the Boston / New York region.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    at year end, dublin will be the 12th busiest airport in europe. 5th busiest in terms of north american passengers...

    In terms of cork, there is no way IAG will launch a route from there, a 737 would only be able to carry just over half of its capacity, allegedly!


  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭hegarty147


    I am a silent watcher of this thread. I have been following closely the Norwegian air fiasco over the last while. I am living in Toronto and I am originally from cork city. I fly home maybe twice a year and I was so excited to finally be able to fly directly to Cork as I absolutely hate nothing more than after a long flight then getting on an bus to cork from Dublin airport. However, hearing now that the flight to Boston which I could connect through from Toronto is from some airport I have never heard of is really disappointing. I quickly looked and saw no airline flies to there from Toronto so I have no way of getting there. 
    I had no problem paying a premium for the flight as I was so happy flying home directly to Cork city but it looks like I wont be able to. So frustrating ....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    hegarty147 wrote: »
    I am a silent watcher of this thread. I have been following closely the Norwegian air fiasco over the last while. I am living in Toronto and I am originally from cork city. I fly home maybe twice a year and I was so excited to finally be able to fly directly to Cork as I absolutely hate nothing more than after a long flight then getting on an bus to cork from Dublin airport. However, hearing now that the flight to Boston which I could connect through from Toronto is from some airport I have never heard of is really disappointing. I quickly looked and saw no airline flies to there from Toronto so I have no way of getting there. 
    I had no problem paying a premium for the flight as I was so happy flying home directly to Cork city but it looks like I wont be able to. So frustrating ....

    It is a bit of a downer but both options are ~50 miles from Boston so your times might still suit for a connection.BTW what price did you pay last time for Dublin-Toronto return?Will you save much using Norwegian?.


  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭hegarty147


    hegarty147 wrote: »
    I am a silent watcher of this thread. I have been following closely the Norwegian air fiasco over the last while. I am living in Toronto and I am originally from cork city. I fly home maybe twice a year and I was so excited to finally be able to fly directly to Cork as I absolutely hate nothing more than after a long flight then getting on an bus to cork from Dublin airport. However, hearing now that the flight to Boston which I could connect through from Toronto is from some airport I have never heard of is really disappointing. I quickly looked and saw no airline flies to there from Toronto so I have no way of getting there. 
    I had no problem paying a premium for the flight as I was so happy flying home directly to Cork city but it looks like I wont be able to. So frustrating ....

    It is a bit of a downer but both options are ~50 miles from Boston so your times might still suit for a connection.BTW what price did you pay last time for Dublin-Toronto return?Will you save much using Norwegian?.

    funny story so I flew back in September with Air Canada Rouge which is the budget airline of Air Canada. That flight was 763 Canadian dollars but because I knew I had to get the f**kin air coach and I would not sleep so I paid a 100 dollars more for a bigger seat so I could sleep. Honestly I actually dont care about the price difference my main need is to fly directly to Cork city. Thats why I personally would spend easily up to 1000 cad for economy to fly directly from Toronto to Cork if that ever happens. I have talked to a lot of people over here from Cork as well and they all say the same, the ability to fly directly definitely makes them more lax with their wallet


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    at year end, dublin will be the 12th busiest airport in europe. 5th busiest in terms of north american passengers...

    In terms of cork, there is no way IAG will launch a route from there, a 737 would only be able to carry just over half of its capacity, allegedly!

    If the loads were there, IAG, in the guise of Aer Lingus, via ASL, could just about operate the route with a 757, which would not be as limited as a 737.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    I'd rather connect through Heathrow, but I'm a bit of an aviation freak. I love Heathrow!


  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭hegarty147


    I'd rather connect through Heathrow, but I'm a bit of an aviation freak. I love Heathrow!

    Obviously I would love direct from Toronto to Cork but I would take a connection. I prefer the connection at the start of the flight i.e New York or Boston but each to their own. 
    Regarding the size of the plan how long would you have to extend cork runway to be able to accomodate most of todays planes?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    I'd rather connect through Heathrow, but I'm a bit of an aviation freak. I love Heathrow!

    This might be the first time in history anyone has *wanted* to connect through Heathrow :)

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    The second Norwegian can get a foothold in Dublin, this Cork route will be gone. They've obviously discovered it's a useful trojan horse to get what they want.

    What's stopping them now that will change in the future? Their approval isn't ORK specific?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Noxegon wrote: »
    This might be the first time in history anyone has *wanted* to connect through Heathrow :)

    Like Heathrow. Take my time, do some shopping, then go to the BA lounge for a few drinks before the flight.

    It would oprobably be different if I was travelling on business on a tight schedule.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Full agree on the anti Cork negativity,I mean look at this rubbish from a few posts back.
    Graham wrote: »
    I see nothing at all anti-Cork in that post.

    Me neither... :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Dublin will carry 28,000,000 this year and is growing a lot quicker than those airports...
    funny story so I flew back in September with Air Canada Rouge which is the budget airline of Air Canada. That flight was 763 Canadian dollars but because I knew I had to get the f**kin air coach and I would not sleep so I paid a 100 dollars more for a bigger seat so I could sleep. Honestly I actually dont care about the price difference my main need is to fly directly to Cork city. Thats why I personally would spend easily up to 1000 cad for economy to fly directly from Toronto to Cork if that ever happens. I have talked to a lot of people over here from Cork as well and they all say the same, the ability to fly directly definitely makes them more lax with their wallet

    If I were you Id be paying a decent premium too. Pity IAG dont fly Cork to Dublin or Shannon to offer cork passengers this option to connect to north america, you have to fly to bloody uk and then back the other direction again... IAG only do whats most profitable for them obviously, but I am glad norwegian are coming in, competition is always a good thing...


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    OK, we got here by accident, there's a very substantial discussion thread about Dublin and it's (lack of) infrastructure, can we take the discussion about Dublin infrastructure and the future to that thread please.

    This thread is about Norwegian and the US routes, so I have moved a number of off topic posts about Dublin to the infrastructure thread

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    hegarty147 wrote: »
    I am a silent watcher of this thread. I have been following closely the Norwegian air fiasco over the last while. I am living in Toronto and I am originally from cork city. I fly home maybe twice a year and I was so excited to finally be able to fly directly to Cork as I absolutely hate nothing more than after a long flight then getting on an bus to cork from Dublin airport. However, hearing now that the flight to Boston which I could connect through from Toronto is from some airport I have never heard of is really disappointing. I quickly looked and saw no airline flies to there from Toronto so I have no way of getting there.
    I had no problem paying a premium for the flight as I was so happy flying home directly to Cork city but it looks like I wont be able to. So frustrating ....
    Don't forget about WOW. I know it's via Iceland (plane change) but you'll still get to Cork for around 10.30am, thats with a 18.30 departure from JFK. That beats the coach anyday IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I still find it curious that they'd run this service with a 737-800.

    I always reconed that they'd use one of their 787s, especially since the flight begins at BCN and with any luck is picking up a good few PAX there. Depending on how much demand there is for Barcelona passengers to travel to that part of the States, you might find that most of those potential 100-odd seats on the 738 are filled before the plane even reaches Ireland.

    From what I remember NAS were planning on using their BCN base to launch routes towards South America. With that in mind they'd probably base some 787s there. I can't help but wonder if a BCN-based 787 is intended for this route?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Rawr wrote: »
    I still find it curious that they'd run this service with a 737-800.

    I always reconed that they'd use one of their 787s, especially since the flight begins at BCN and with any luck is picking up a good few PAX there. Depending on how much demand there is for Barcelona passengers to travel to that part of the States, you might find that most of those potential 100-odd seats on the 738 are filled before the plane even reaches Ireland.

    From what I remember NAS were planning on using their BCN base to launch routes towards South America. With that in mind they'd probably base some 787s there. I can't help but wonder if a BCN-based 787 is intended for this route?

    The BCN element is gone, it's now a ORK only proposal


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I'd need to spend a bit of time on the checking, my gut instinct is that a 787 would be limited in what it could carry out of Cork, the runway there is going to be significantly limiting, so using a 787 from day 1 at Cork would be a massive gamble.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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