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Norwegian Air Discussion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭The_Wanderer


    kub wrote: »
    It is expected that Norwegian Air International will announce its Cork to Boston routes first, with flights landing at TF Green Airport in Warwick, Rhode Island, about 112km south of Boston.

    Great to see Norwegian using the Ryanair ploy of dumping you nowhere near the City you want to go to. :mad:

    Should be marketed as a Cork to Providence route.

    After coming off a T/A flight the last thing I want to be doing is spending another couple of hours actually getting to Boston, which is 60 miles away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    If Providence is being sold as Boston it seems only logical that the route from Cork would be advertised as originating in Dublin (South)...?

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,545 ✭✭✭kub


    Great to see Norwegian using the Ryanair ploy of dumping you nowhere near the City you want to go to.
    Should be marketed as a Cork to Providence.
    After coming off a T/A flight the last thing I want to be doing is spending another couple of hours actually getting to Boston, which is 60 miles away.

    I agree with you, but it is a hell of lot more than what our once national airliner has ever done for Cork with regard to trans Atlantic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,173 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    kub wrote: »
    I agree with you, but it is a hell of lot more than what our once national airliner has ever done for Cork with regard to trans Atlantic.

    National airline stands for feck all nowadays, it's privatised and will pursue profit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,545 ✭✭✭kub


    JCX BXC wrote:
    National airline stands for feck all nowadays, it's privatised and will pursue profit.


    Indeed and that was why I mentioned our once National airliner.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,173 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    kub wrote: »
    Indeed and that was why I mentioned our once National airliner.

    It was mentioned in a way that suggests an argument of 'they are our national airline and should operate Transatlantic services' though.

    One thing I do wonder though, if Cork had a longer runway, would Aer Lingus in the past have operated an A330 Transatlantic service?


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Rocko


    Great to see Norwegian using the Ryanair ploy of dumping you nowhere near the City you want to go to. :mad:

    Should be marketed as a Cork to Providence route.

    After coming off a T/A flight the last thing I want to be doing is spending another couple of hours actually getting to Boston, which is 60 miles away.


    Ditto.

    After coming off an overnight T/A flight into Dublin mostly with no sleep, the last thing I want to be doing is spending another couple of hours on a Aircoach or driving back to Cork.

    But at least now we've another option which will suit alot of people but not everybody on here.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    kub wrote: »
    Great to see Norwegian using the Ryanair ploy of dumping you nowhere near the City you want to go to.
    Should be marketed as a Cork to Providence.
    After coming off a T/A flight the last thing I want to be doing is spending another couple of hours actually getting to Boston, which is 60 miles away.

    I agree with you, but it is a hell of lot more than what our once national airliner has ever done for Cork with regard to trans Atlantic.

    When aer lingus were the national airline they firstly couldn't legally operate from Cork, even if they wanted to as a SNN stop over was required, and secondly Cork didn't have the facilities to allow such a service due to runway etc.
    It's literally only this year that aircraft that can make economical transatlantic flights from Cork an option viable.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork is doing ok without transatlantic flights at the minute. Although I'm from Cork, I think if the M20 was built, a decent transatlantic service from SNN would be more beneficial for Cork than flying on 737s to airfields miles from the intended destination.

    It also depends on how long Norweigan sustain this service for. Wow Air's connections via KEF look more appealing at the minute, although more expensive.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,860 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    It was mentioned in a way that suggests an argument of 'they are our national airline and should operate Transatlantic services' though.
    I didnt interpretate in that way at all.
    'once national airline' is very much past tense.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭thomil


    marno21 wrote: »
    Cork is doing ok without transatlantic flights at the minute. Although I'm from Cork, I think if the M20 was built, a decent transatlantic service from SNN would be more beneficial for Cork than flying on 737s to airfields miles from the intended destination.

    It also depends on how long Norweigan sustain this service for. Wow Air's connections via KEF look more appealing at the minute, although more expensive.

    I'm getting more than a little tired of this BS about T.F. Green Airport being out of the way. I could understand it if Norwegian flew to some godforsaken former air base in the hinterland of New Hampshire or Vermont, where you've only got trees, locals desperate to procreate, and wildlife desperate to get away from said locals. This is the main airport for Providence, Rhode Island we're talking about, a significant, and well connected airport. Granted, it's not Logan, but then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'd actually consider it an asset, as Providence gives you access to pretty much every destination between Boston and NYC without having to brave the Boston city traffic, a huge catchment area for the US end of the route.
    It is even better for carless passengers, as the airport has a dedicated train stations, something this country hasn't even managed for its primary airport. There's regular weekday connections to Providence station, which sits smack on the Northeast Corridor and gives you access to the Acela high speed trains running on that route. With just one change of train, every major city between Boston and Washington is within reach. As for Boston itself, there's a weekday direct train service to South Station. I'm not even counting all the bus lines. Pretty good connections, and an even better location if you ask me.

    As far as WOW Air is concerned, I doubt many people will use them for connections to the northeast of the US once the Norwegian service starts operating. From what I've seen, their onboard product is basic even by LCC standards. They might prove popular for passengers going to Canada, the US west coast, or down to Miami, though. It all depends on whether Norwegian adapt their onboard product on the 737 for long-haul services, and what kind of equipment their 737 MAX will get.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭Comhrá


    What sort of flying time for a B738 from Cork to TF Green Airport?

    Will it be using the NATS tracks or is there any ETOPS issue necessitating a Northerly track hugging Iceland or Greenland, thus making for an 8+ hrs. flight time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭billie1b


    tippman1 wrote: »
    What sort of flying time for a B738 from Cork to TF Green Airport?

    Will it be using the NATS tracks or is there any ETOPS issue necessitating a Northerly track hugging Iceland or Greenland, thus making for an 8+ hrs. flight time?

    The -800's come standard with 120 mins, not sure bout the new Max though


  • Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Mebuntu


    Great to see Norwegian using the Ryanair ploy of dumping you nowhere near the City you want to go to. :mad:
    After coming off a T/A flight the last thing I want to be doing is spending another couple of hours actually getting to Boston, which is 60 miles away.
    Leaving aside that airline bashing comment I think you may be assuming that everyone wants to go into or come from Boston itself.

    People living in areas to the South/SouthWest/SouthEast of Boston will most likely be pleased to be able to comfortably drive to TF Green with its cheap parking and less hassle rather than go up to Logan and all that entails. Alternatively, they can use buses or trains that connect to/from Connecticut/Providence and New England area generally or even Boston itself. The same applies in reverse.

    Likewise, those originating from Ireland have similar options using car hire or the alternatives. They may well consider those options better than having a long drive after arrival back in Ireland.

    Personally, travelling long-haul on a 737 is not all that appealing but most passengers wouldn’t even know what type they are on or even care.

    Of course, we will have to wait and see what the actual fares are going to be before the real discussion starts but I hope Norwegian succeeds on this route and Shannon and Dublin if they decide to expand. It is long overdue for other airlines to do a Ryanair on Long-Haul and put it up to the airlines (Irish and American) that are still ripping off their passengers and adding on fuel surcharges (or by another name) for half price fuel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭billie1b


    Mebuntu wrote: »
    Leaving aside that airline bashing comment I think you may be assuming that everyone wants to go into or come from Boston itself.

    People living in areas to the South/SouthWest/SouthEast of Boston will most likely be pleased to be able to comfortably drive to TF Green with its cheap parking and less hassle rather than go up to Logan and all that entails. Alternatively, they can use buses or trains that connect to/from Connecticut/Providence and New England area generally or even Boston itself. The same applies in reverse.

    Likewise, those originating from Ireland have similar options using car hire or the alternatives. They may well consider those options better than having a long drive after arrival back in Ireland.

    Personally, travelling long-haul on a 737 is not all that appealing but most passengers wouldn’t even know what type they are on or even care.

    Of course, we will have to wait and see what the actual fares are going to be before the real discussion starts but I hope Norwegian succeeds on this route and Shannon and Dublin if they decide to expand. It is long overdue for other airlines to do a Ryanair on Long-Haul and put it up to the airlines (Irish and American) that are still ripping off their passengers and adding on fuel surcharges (or by another name) for half price fuel.

    No such thing as 'airline bashing' here when it comes to Ryanair, now if it was Aer Lingus it'd be a different story, the bias on here somedays shines through like sun through a windscreen. Just my opinion of course, I could be wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Mebuntu wrote: »
    Leaving aside that airline bashing comment I think you may be assuming that everyone wants to go into or come from Boston itself.

    People living in areas to the South/SouthWest/SouthEast of Boston will most likely be pleased to be able to comfortably drive to TF Green with its cheap parking and less hassle rather than go up to Logan and all that entails. Alternatively, they can use buses or trains that connect to/from Connecticut/Providence and New England area generally or even Boston itself. The same applies in reverse.

    Likewise, those originating from Ireland have similar options using car hire or the alternatives. They may well consider those options better than having a long drive after arrival back in Ireland.

    Personally, travelling long-haul on a 737 is not all that appealing but most passengers wouldn’t even know what type they are on or even care.

    Of course, we will have to wait and see what the actual fares are going to be before the real discussion starts but I hope Norwegian succeeds on this route and Shannon and Dublin if they decide to expand. It is long overdue for other airlines to do a Ryanair on Long-Haul and put it up to the airlines (Irish and American) that are still ripping off their passengers and adding on fuel surcharges (or by another name) for half price fuel.

    The fuel surcharge is a non event, doesn't matter if fare is 100 with 125 surcharge or 225 fare with no surcharge, it's all revenue for EI and customers just look at final price. Removing the fuel surcharge will not impact the fare as EI factor it in when setting prices.


  • Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Mebuntu


    The fuel surcharge is a non event, doesn't matter if fare is 100 with 125 surcharge or 225 fare with no surcharge, it's all revenue for EI and customers just look at final price. Removing the fuel surcharge will not impact the fare as EI factor it in when setting prices.
    (1) You've just confirmed the rip-off factor and (2) we are not just talking EI here.

    The facts are that, at a certain point in time, fuel prices began to go through the roof and airlines, who had already factored in "normal" fuel costs into their fares, decided to add fuel surcharges. Nobody could argue with that in principle but could argue with the exorbitant fees being charged. The subsequent major reductions in fuel prices should have been followed by corresponding major surcharge reductions and, when fuel became half price, the fees ought to have been removed. The airlines, with no opposition, saw it as an opportunity to make hay. Now, with increasing opposition on the way, provided it is worthwhile, they may be forced to think again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,173 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Do Delta, United, American as well as connection options with BA, AF, KLM, WOW, etc not already offer competition? Aer Lingus offers competitive fares to them, the fuel surcharge doesn't affect this. As has been said, it's absorbed into the fare, it's not like the fare is 400 + 125/whatever the surcharge is, on top of the fare.

    If the final fare is competitive, I fail to see the issue, and if the final fare is not competitive, people will choose other airlines and I again fail to see the issue.

    Fuel is factored into the fare, and it could be argued that taking out the fuel surcharge infact reduces transparency in the fare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Mebuntu


    Do Delta, United, American as well as connection options with BA, AF, KLM, WOW, etc not already offer competition? Aer Lingus offers competitive fares to them, the fuel surcharge doesn't affect this. As has been said, it's absorbed into the fare, it's not like the fare is 400 + 125/whatever the surcharge is, on top of the fare.

    If the final fare is competitive, I fail to see the issue, and if the final fare is not competitive, people will choose other airlines and I again fail to see the issue.

    Fuel is factored into the fare, and it could be argued that taking out the fuel surcharge infact reduces transparency in the fare.
    You appear to be missing the point of this discussion. As I've already said this is not about EI Versus current competitors who together all impose these extra charges (call them fuel or by any other name) in order to artificially inflate their fares. They are all equally guilty. It's about the current "all" including EI Versus the newcomers and what they might bring to the table in terms of real competition but we have to await their fare structures before we can see exactly what that entails and if it makes an appreciable difference.

    What happens next is very important. Before Ryanair, flights LHR/DUB were priced way beyond most people's means (£400 return both EI and BA). Imagine what that would be in today's money. Something revolutionary is required to ensure that similarly inflated prices for T/A are challenged in the same way. Let's hope it works out.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Mebuntu wrote: »
    Do Delta, United, American as well as connection options with BA, AF, KLM, WOW, etc not already offer competition? Aer Lingus offers competitive fares to them, the fuel surcharge doesn't affect this. As has been said, it's absorbed into the fare, it's not like the fare is 400 + 125/whatever the surcharge is, on top of the fare.

    If the final fare is competitive, I fail to see the issue, and if the final fare is not competitive, people will choose other airlines and I again fail to see the issue.

    Fuel is factored into the fare, and it could be argued that taking out the fuel surcharge infact reduces transparency in the fare.
    You appear to be missing the point of this discussion. As I've already said this is not about EI Versus current competitors who together all impose these extra charges (call them fuel or by any other name) in order to artificially inflate their fares. They are all equally guilty. It's about the current "all" including EI Versus the newcomers and what they might bring to the table in terms of real competition but we have to await their fare structures before we can see exactly what that entails and if it makes an appreciable difference.

    What happens next is very important. Before Ryanair, flights LHR/DUB were priced way beyond most people's means (£400 return both EI and BA). Imagine what that would be in today's money. Something revolutionary is required to ensure that similarly inflated prices for T/A are challenged in the same way. Let's hope it works out.

    Norwegian don't tend to offer the revoluntary low fares Ryanair did when they brought their low cost idea to Ireland/Europe from the states back in the 90s, they are indeed competitive, however ex LON their fares to the US are very much on a par with BA, American etc. With the exception of perhaps a small number of lossleader fares to get the ball rolling.
    There is certainly a place for Norwegian in the market, but I wouldn't get too excited about super low fares! This is all in my experience anyway, if you need/want to travel with luggage etc then BA are often cheaper !


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  • Registered Users Posts: 810 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    Realistically fuel surcharges became irrelevant when the legislation was brought in that the fare quoted had to be the full fare including taxes fees surcharges (all non-optional costs). The fuel surcharge isn't necessarily seen by the passenger, unless you go through the fare breakdown - generally the price quoted is the final price. Hence the push towards optional charges like luggage to make up for low headline prices.


  • Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Mebuntu


    but I wouldn't get too excited about super low fares!
    Agreed. Although hopeful, I'm a bit sceptical myself and will remain so until we know the fares and can compare with existing. Interesting times ahead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭jucylucy


    I think the flights from Cork were just political leverage to get USA rights for the Irish AOC and would be surprised if they continue past one season:(


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Not sure if this has been mentioned already.

    TF Green Airport's runway is only 50m longer than Cork's runway. Would there not also be an issue for a fully loaded Cork bound aircraft taking off?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    marno21 wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been mentioned already.

    TF Green Airport's runway is only 50m longer than Cork's runway. Would there not also be an issue for a fully loaded Cork bound aircraft taking off?
    I may be wrong , but I think westbound flights tend to be more the issue due to winds etc.
    My impression is the 737max is capable of sure performance so it shouldn't be an issue, although I could be wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,173 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    marno21 wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been mentioned already.

    TF Green Airport's runway is only 50m longer than Cork's runway. Would there not also be an issue for a fully loaded Cork bound aircraft taking off?

    I would assume less so, as the winds are much more favourable heading back eastwards.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    jucylucy wrote: »
    I think the flights from Cork were just political leverage to get USA rights for the Irish AOC and would be surprised if they continue past one season:(
    Perhaps, but if it makes money there's no reason it won't continue, Norwegian certainly won't be short of aircraft over the next few years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭thomil


    marno21 wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been mentioned already.

    TF Green Airport's runway is only 50m longer than Cork's runway. Would there not also be an issue for a fully loaded Cork bound aircraft taking off?

    The runway is in the process of being expanded by about 500 meters, that should be completed later this year, or early 2018, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭jackinthemix94


    Re the viability of the Cork flights - if people in Cork use them enough the flights will remain, if they don't, then they'll go. If they really happen then it's up to people in Cork to use them.

    The amount of Nordies I heard on United DUB-EWR flights is unreal saying they'd driven down to save money etc, and yet they were up in arms when they lost BFS-EWR.

    TL;DR: Use it or lose it.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Re the viability of the Cork flights - if people in Cork use them enough the flights will remain, if they don't, then they'll go. If they really happen then it's up to people in Cork to use them.

    The amount of Nordies I heard on United DUB-EWR flights is unreal saying they'd driven down to save money etc, and yet they were up in arms when they lost BFS-EWR.

    TL;DR: Use it or lose it.
    Absolute agree there, I recently had family who flew to London, one lives in Cork at the moment, the other in Mayo..:. Guess where they flew to London from!!? ..:..Dublin!!
    This is the trouble with people knowing the price of everything but not the cost..


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