Norwegian Air Discussion

bkehoe

billie1b wrote: »

Sorry I should have been more transparent, that was a loadsheet for a Ryanair 800 out of DUB as asked by a poster eaelier.

The post you quoted was with reference to the amount of passengers that can be carried from ORK though; why not do a load sheet with the parameters I provided to show everyone exactly how restrictive it is?

billie1b

bkehoe wrote: »

The post you quoted was with reference to the amount of passengers that can be carried from ORK though; why not do a load sheet with the parameters I provided to show everyone exactly how restrictive it is?

Ok will do, it'll be a while though as i'm just heading to work now

billie1b

Spot on BKEHOE, restricted to 70,403kgs

Conditions

Airport : Cork
Runway Length : 6998ft
Elevation : 502ft
QNH : 970
Temp : 3 degrees
Aircraft : Boeing 738
MTOW : 77,990kgs
Thrust : 27k
Packs off

All these parameters restricts the aircraft to a MTOW of 70,403kgs, which after fuel gives an allowed pax load 96 pax with each pax having one 23kg bag each. Leaves feck all room for cargo, superneries, extra fuel etc etc.

highlydebased

Flights from all 3 state airports according to rte news

roundymac

96 Passengers, that's barely a break even figure is it not.

Idbatterim

bring on a direct flight from Dublin to Vegas!!!

did they announce cork, because they thought there would be far less competition from the big boys, going for tiny airports? Dublin, gatwick etc etc are where the serious demand is...

also I find the transatlantic flights very reasonable even with aer lingus currently, given the distances involved...

surely if flying from cork, if they reckon they can make money on it, they would be charging a good bit more than the lowest fares they currently advertise? they will be the only operator serving the route...

Idbatterim

they are also receiving the first deliveries for the 737 max in may... delighted, the more competition the better!

maximum12

Idbatterim wrote: »

they are also receiving the first deliveries for the 737 max in may... delighted, the more competition the better!

Would that change the above passenger number limit for cork?

robyntmorton

maximum12 wrote: »

Would that change the above passenger number limit for cork?

She's meant to be more fuel efficient, so I'd assume so, but it wouldn't be too many more pax.

Idbatterim

As per the above post. I would have to assume so. the max is the one oleary referred to as the game changer... You'd assume that will deploy them on the most profitable route. If cork can only take half the capacity, how profitable could it be?! Norwegian don't codeshare on us side yet do they? Because they are in talks with Ryanair and Easyjet to feed European passengers into their US flights. I'm assuming that will give iag etc a bit of a headache!

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-agreed-to-pay-boeing-a-premium-for-next-generation-aircraft-1.2075624

bkehoe

maximum12 wrote: »

Would that change the above passenger number limit for cork?

Unlikely to significantly change. The aircraft and its engines are more fuel efficient but again it depends on the thrust rating that the operators get and use and the weight of the airframe itself when empty. From what I know its available up to 28k lbs thrust on the -8, so only 1k thrust more than the CFM56 on the NG which isn't a huge difference (at a guess about 10 pax). Also worth noting that operators often don't use the highest rating their engines are certified for to save money on maintenance.

KCAccidental

Looks like it will be flights to Rhode Island or New Hampshire for "Boston" and Stewart airport for New York, which would fit in with the ultra low cost model NAI are going to implement.

Norwegian Air Shuttle’s Irish-based subsidiary, which finally won U.S. regulatory approval for low-cost flights between the U.S. and Europe on Friday, no longer is eyeing Boston’s Logan International Airport for its new direct service to Cork, Shannon and Dublin, Ireland.

Norwegian will choose between New Hampshire’s Portsmouth International Airport and T.F. Green Airport in Warwick, R.I., for Norwegian Air International’s nonstop flights aboard Boeing 737s, citing costs as the reason. The single-aisle 737 carries 150 fewer passengers than the Boeing 787 Dreamliner flights that Norwegian will continue to operate out of Logan.

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2016/12/norwegian_air_grounds_logan_for_ireland_flights

Deagol

Good grief, you that's as bad as any Ryanair claim I've seen.

Stewart is 1.5 hours from New York city, and T.F. Green is well over an hour from Boston on a good day, I95 being one of the worst freeway's for traffic.

I think I'd rather drive to Dublin and get a flight to the city I actually want to go to :eek:

roundymac

steve-o wrote: »

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Noway has been a party to Europe-US open skies since 2011. It already operates EU-US, so Norwegian don't need an EU AOC for that.

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2016/12/norwegian_air_grounds_logan_for_ireland_flights
But they are using US based crews .

Mebuntu

Deagol wrote: »

Good grief, you that's as bad as any Ryanair claim I've seen.

Stewart is 1.5 hours from New York city, and T.F. Green is well over an hour from Boston on a good day, I95 being one of the worst freeway's for traffic.

I think I'd rather drive to Dublin and get a flight to the city I actually want to go to :eek:

At first glance your comment may appear to make sense but I think you have to bear in mind the typical passengers who will fly this new route. They won't be too worried on this score. After all, if you fly from Dublin to London airports (excl LCY) the travel time to Central London is around an hour by Tube or Rail and longer by coach.

Your drive to Dublin would be a far greater inconvenience and expense (petrol/Toll/parking) plus the M50 debacle and uncertainty. Then, when you arrive back at DUB after a long flight you have to drive all the way home again.

So, to sum up. Driving to Dublin and back will add considerable extra expense to an airfare that will already be much dearer than Norwegian plus all the stress in driving both ways.

Tenger

Mebuntu wrote: »

At first glance your comment may appear to make sense but I think you have to bear in mind the typical passengers who will fly this new route. They won't be too worried on this score. ......

And the passengers may not be actually aimed for the "big city" destiantion in the end. Look at the recent EI destination of Hartford, its services the larger New England region.
The Rhode island airport does similar, Stewart could service NY state.

But there will always be those who just look at the airfare are are horrified when thet take the flight and not realise what they have paid for. (or not paid for in this case) I remember reading articles about the early NAI flights with pax unable to purchase water and blankets as it was card only.
Always read the flight info and know where you are flying to.

Rhys Essien

Would the clearance be a lot quicker at these smaller airports that it would have been at Logan airport?.So will it all balance out?.

snotboogie

Deagol wrote: »

Good grief, you that's as bad as any Ryanair claim I've seen.

Stewart is 1.5 hours from New York city, and T.F. Green is well over an hour from Boston on a good day, I95 being one of the worst freeway's for traffic.

I think I'd rather drive to Dublin and get a flight to the city I actually want to go to :eek:

Why would you rather drive 3 hours than 1.5 hours?

Graham

snotboogie wrote: »

Why would you rather drive 3 hours than 1.5 hours?

To save spending an hour in traffic

snotboogie

billy few mates wrote: »

elastico wrote: »

How is Shannon a prize? Aer Lingus seem to struggle to keep an operation going there, where will the passengers come from?

I meant to say DUB as the main prize, SNN possibly a stepping stone to it...

Why do they need Shannon as a stepping stone to Dublin?

flanzer

What's the public transport like from Stewart into Manhattan?? Google maps can't even provide a suggestion!

Looks to me like Cork is a pawn here, as Norwegian go to battle with EU and US authorities

Question is for Irish customers, why would you fly to Stewart?
Question for Americans, why would you fly to Cork?

The whole thing doesn't add up IMO. The fanfare down in Cork might be short lived

LXFlyer

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Would the clearance be a lot quicker at these smaller airports that it would have been at Logan airport?.So will it all balance out?.

One look at Wikipedia for each of those airports indicates that none of them currently have any international commercial flights, except one which has a seasonal service to/from the Azores.

Therefore inevitably the answer is yes.

snotboogie

flanzer wrote: »

What's the public transport like from Stewart into Manhattan?? Google maps can't even provide a suggestion!

Looks to me like Cork is a pawn here, as Norwegian go to battle with EU and US authorities

Question is for Irish customers, why would you fly to Stewart?
Question for Americans, why would you fly to Cork?

The whole thing doesn't add up IMO. The fanfare down in Cork might be short lived

I've been following the aviation forums on here for years and I've never seen a route met with such negativity and scorn (the actual Cork Airport thread in the Cork forum is as bad). It's a clear punt worth taking for Cork Airport, they have essentially nothing to lose and the potential for direct North American links. Outside of North America I don't see where else the Airport can grow into?
Question for Americans, why would you fly to Cork?
Cork is the second most visited county by foreign tourists, with nearly 50% more than Clare and Limerick combined: http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/revealed-the-irish-counties-most-and-least-visited-by-overseas-tourists-35117642.html It's a more attractive tourist destination and it has far more American FDI than the Shannon region. Currently Shannon operates 5 routes to North America to Cork's zero. 
Question is for Irish customers, why would you fly to Stewart? 
Has Stewart been confirmed? I would imagine these routes are targeted at the 500K+ people living in Cork and the thousands in surrounding counties for whom Cork is the closest airport. Without any North American routes Cork is outperforming Shannon, it's set to move about 600K more passengers than Shannon this year.
Despite all of this I'm still skeptical that it will work. Belfast International (which moves more than Cork and Shannon combined) just had it's only real North American route pulled but it's clearly worth a go from Cork Airports perspective and I don't know why it is met with such negativity here?

jackinthemix94

The second Norwegian can get a foothold in Dublin, this Cork route will be gone. They've obviously discovered it's a useful trojan horse to get what they want.

Mebuntu

snotboogie wrote: »

Despite all of this I'm still skeptical that it will work. Belfast International (which moves more than Cork and Shannon combined) just had it's only real North American route pulled but it's clearly worth a go from Cork Airports perspective and I don't know why it is met with such negativity here?

If it was a profitable business proposition to fly direct from Cork to USA it would have been done before by EI or any/all of the others. I'm not sure it is fair to compare Cork with what happened in Belfast. The fact is that there are thousands of people who simply couldn't and can't afford current fares. Nobody has previously tried a low-fare operation so it remains to be proved that it will/won't work in the long term. I'm hoping very much that it will.

As for Shannon and Dublin I hope Norwegian DO begin flights and I don't see any good reason why anyone would want to object to it.

snotboogie

Mebuntu wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Despite all of this I'm still skeptical that it will work. Belfast International (which moves more than Cork and Shannon combined) just had it's only real North American route pulled but it's clearly worth a go from Cork Airports perspective and I don't know why it is met with such negativity here?

If it was a profitable business proposition to fly direct from Cork to USA it would have been done before by EI or any/all of the others. I'm not sure it is fair to compare Cork with what happened in Belfast. The fact is that there are thousands of people who simply couldn't and can't afford current fares. Nobody has previously tried a low-fare operation so it remains to be proved that it will/won't work in the long term. I'm hoping very much that it will.

As for Shannon and Dublin I hope Norwegian DO begin flights and I don't see any good reason why anyone would want to object to it.

Air Rianta and Aerlingus always took the view of Shannon as being the alternative state airport to Dublin. This decision was made by government rather than commercial enterprises. By the time they were privatized the status quo had been in place for decades. I haven't seen any logical argument as to why Shannon is so commercially viable for North American routes in comparison to Cork other than, it's always been this way so it must be true...

Rhys Essien

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

The second Norwegian can get a foothold in Dublin, this Cork route will be gone. They've obviously discovered it's a useful trojan horse to get what they want.

Don't be talking through your hat.Cork never had a transatlantic route which was a disgrace in itself.The population of Cork is greater than the whole of Connacht and a little under half of Dublin's.Why should we be travelling to Dublin and Shannon for flights?.There are thousands of workers in US companies in Cork.Finally,the Cork and Kerry region is the nicest part of the country.

You're just afraid that the monopoly on Dublin will now be over.

Cookiemunster

snotboogie wrote: »

Air Rianta and Aerlingus always took the view of Shannon as being the alternative state airport to Dublin. This decision was made by government rather than commercial enterprises. By the time they were privatized the status quo had been in place for decades. I haven't seen any logical argument as to why Shannon is so commercially viable for North American routes in comparison to Cork other than, it's always been this way so it must be true...

Runway length.

Graham

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Don't be talking through your hat.Cork never had a transatlantic route which was a disgrace in itself.The population of Cork is greater than the whole of Connacht and a little under half of Dublin's.Why should we be travelling to Dublin and Shannon for flights?.There are thousands of workers in US companies in Cork.Finally,the Cork and Kerry region is the nicest part of the country.

You're just afraid that the monopoly on Dublin will now be over.

I can't help but think you're taking things a little personally.

It's nothing to do with being afraid of monopolies ending, it's nothing to do with 'nicest part of the Country' opinions, it's nothing to do with populations.

It's all about commercial viability and profitability.

I say that as someone that absolutely loves travelling via Cork airport. Unfortunately for the airport itself, the reasons I love it are definitely not aligned with the airports commercial goals.

Deagol

Mebuntu wrote: »

At first glance your comment may appear to make sense but I think you have to bear in mind the typical passengers who will fly this new route. They won't be too worried on this score. After all, if you fly from Dublin to London airports (excl LCY) the travel time to Central London is around an hour by Tube or Rail and longer by coach.

Your drive to Dublin would be a far greater inconvenience and expense (petrol/Toll/parking) plus the M50 debacle and uncertainty. Then, when you arrive back at DUB after a long flight you have to drive all the way home again.

So, to sum up. Driving to Dublin and back will add considerable extra expense to an airfare that will already be much dearer than Norwegian plus all the stress in driving both ways.

The typical passenger be damned, I'm a business passenger and I have no interest in spending 5-6 hours on a 737 in coach! I'd rather drive to and from Dublin and use a premium product. Tbh, it'd probably make more sense to fly with Delta or Continental change at Newark / JFK. Presuming they have flights of course. I would presume if EI pull out of Shannon one or both of them would start doing year round and maybe daily?