Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

elperello

This link to LIDL Romania shows beers from Germany, Belgium and Italy.


https://www.lidl.ro/ro/cataloage/revista-disponibila-in-perioada-07-13-09-2020/view/flyer/page/58

1 EURO = 4.86 LEU

Atlantic Dawn

San Miguel €1 a litre in Dealz in Spain, a 5% beer, it's a disgrace Joe...
https://dealz.es/cerveza-san-miguel/

Leroy42

weldoninhio wrote: »

What are you talking about? Can you not read? I wasn’t comparing brewing here and brewing there. I’m talking about mass produced lager which costs the same amount to brew in Holland/Germany/Czechia no matter if they’re sending it to Ireland or Romania or any other country.

Yes but prices are a product of the market they are sold in. Hence the corner shop charges more for milk than the supermarket because they can, not just because the milk costs more.

People charge what they believe they can sell the product at. If people don't buy they lower the price, if they buy they raise it.

Hence why beer increased in price during the lockdown. They knew people would pay. Just like they know, despite all the talk on here, that people will continue to buy if MUP comes in. But it will get rid of the cheaper opposition and increase their per unit sales price.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

What are you talking about? Can you not read? I wasn’t comparing brewing here and brewing there. I’m talking about mass produced lager which costs the same amount to brew in Holland/Germany/Czechia no matter if they’re sending it to Ireland or Romania or any other country.

Tone down the outrage there chief. Sorry i missed the point you were making.

Duty here is a multiple of Germany/Czechia. Which is why a bottle of Jameson in Jihomoravska costs 13 euro when it costs 27+ here.

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is it more expensive to brew beer for Ireland than it is for Romania??

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes but prices are a product of the market they are sold in. Hence the corner shop charges more for milk than the supermarket because they can, not just because the milk costs more.

People charge what they believe they can sell the product at. If people don't buy they lower the price, if they buy they raise it.

Hence why beer increased in price during the lockdown. They knew people would pay. Just like they know, despite all the talk on here, that people will continue to buy if MUP comes in. But it will get rid of the cheaper opposition and increase their per unit sales price.

no issue with that at all but this started with weldoninho asking if it was more expensive to brew the same beer for different countries and somebody said it was. It isn't. the brewers have different markups in different markets and the high excise duties here also play a large part.

weldoninhio

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes but prices are a product of the market they are sold in. Hence the corner shop charges more for milk than the supermarket because they can, not just because the milk costs more.

People charge what they believe they can sell the product at. If people don't buy they lower the price, if they buy they raise it.

Hence why beer increased in price during the lockdown. They knew people would pay. Just like they know, despite all the talk on here, that people will continue to buy if MUP comes in. But it will get rid of the cheaper opposition and increase their per unit sales price.

So it costs the same to produce beer for Ireland or Romania.

Capt'n Midnight

weldoninhio wrote: »

So it costs the same to produce beer for Ireland or Romania.

Labour costs are possibly lower over there.

But beer is very cheap to make. Malting barley is ~ €200 a tonne which will make about 12,000 pints.

So 1.7c a pint. Give or take.

But there are other costs too for energy. And hops and labour and packaging and transport and depreciation on equipment. Regardless the actual cost of production is miniscule compared to the the cost in a pub or even supermarket.

BTW the same is true of cigarettes. The packet costs more to make than the contents.

ohnonotgmail

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Labour costs are possibly lower over there.

But beer is very cheap to make. Malting barley is ~ €200 a tonne which will make about 12,000 pints.

So 1.7c a pint. Give or take.

But there are other costs too for energy. And hops and labour and packaging and transport and depreciation on equipment. Regardless the actual cost of production is miniscule compared to the the cost in a pub or even supermarket.

BTW the same is true of cigarettes. The packet costs more to make than the contents.

the labour costs in the country in which the beer is made are the only relevant labour costs. if the beer is made in one country and shipped to multiple countries then only the labour cost in the country of production is relevant.

Fr Tod Umptious

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the labour costs in the country in which the beer is made are the only relevant labour costs. if the beer is made in one country and shipped to multiple countries then only the labour cost in the country of production is relevant.

In theory yes, but large multinational brewing companies like Heineken, Diago, Anheuser Busch etc tend to operate breweries in many different countries so there may often be the case that two bottles of the exact same product is produced in two very different cost bases.

For decades Guinness has been brewed in Nigeria for the African market.
The cost of producing a bottle there is far less than in Dublin or west London.

Capt'n Midnight

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the labour costs in the country in which the beer is made are the only relevant labour costs. if the beer is made in one country and shipped to multiple countries then only the labour cost in the country of production is relevant.

Beer costs less to make than a can of beans. (more ingredients - after all beer is mostly water , heavier can etc.)

Check out the cheapest can of kidney beans in your local German discounter.
To put it on the shelf means half a Kg had to be transported across Europe.

And if you can't buy four or five cans for a €1 shop around.

Excluding VAT and Excise and profits it doesn't cost much to put a can on a shelf. Minimum pricing means that apart from the VAT any increase in price is trousered by the supermarket or distributor. And NONE of the price increase goes to the government. So none of the price increase goes to the HSE.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

I'm glad I homebrew

Vic_08

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

I'm glad I homebrew

Oh, you'll be next on the vintners hit list when MUP doesn't result in the country flocking to the pub.

They'll probably demand a fleet of homebrew detector vans or something.

Richard Hillman

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

San Miguel €1 a litre in Dealz in Spain, a 5% beer, it's a disgrace Joe...
https://dealz.es/cerveza-san-miguel/

The Spanish must be raging alcoholics

thesandeman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Spanish must be raging alcoholics

It must be aimed at British expats going by the related products in the link.

L1011

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's not, if you are talking about supermarkets.

I've been to LIDL in Copenhagen - alcohol was cheaper than here.
Pubs in Copenhagen - alcohol more expensive unless 'happy hour'.

We don't need minimum pricing. Just enforce the laws we already have on drink driving, drunk and disorderly etc

Danish prices are at two ends of the scale

Corner shops are cheaper than the cheapest supermarket deals here

Every bar in the country makes Temple Bar look cheap.

But that's because service industry staff are paid €20+ an hour. You don't tip in Denmark.

Hotblack Desiato

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Now I don't think it has ever been cheaper than Germany, but equally I believe its cheaper here than in Scandinavia.

It was only posted a few days ago - here

Second most expensive alcohol in the EU, we're slightly behind Finland which is 91% above the EU average.

Thelonious Monk

L1011 wrote: »

Danish prices are at two ends of the scale

Corner shops are cheaper than the cheapest supermarket deals here

Every bar in the country makes Temple Bar look cheap.

But that's because service industry staff are paid €20+ an hour. You don't tip in Denmark.

Well that's not true at all. There are loads of bars in Copenhagen called "Bodegas", really old school divey places, I loved them - but it was only 2 euro or 2.50 for a bottle of Tuborg or local beer in those places. And their Tuborg is 5%!

Suckit

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It was only posted a few days ago - here

Second most expensive alcohol in the EU, we're slightly behind Finland which is 91% above the EU average.

Didn't Finland have some sort of ban on alcohol (dry law?), which led to people coming up with creative ways to hide it?

Or something like that..?
I'm sure somebody here will have more information on it (which wouldn't be hard) , but I have a distant memory of watching a programme years ago that spoke about that, which led to all sorts of alcohol filled desserts and liquer filled sweets etc..
And after their dry law, some government owned company (was set up for that reason) makes and distributes all of the alcohol in the country??
I was under the impression that they are at the extreme end of the scale when it comes to alcohol.


Off to search I go.

Suckit

Suckit wrote: »

Didn't Finland have some sort of ban on alcohol (dry law?), which led to people coming up with creative ways to hide it?

Or something like that..?
I'm sure somebody here will have more information on it (which wouldn't be hard) , but I have a distant memory of watching a programme years ago that spoke about that, which led to all sorts of alcohol filled desserts and liquer filled sweets etc..
And after their dry law, some government owned company (was set up for that reason) makes and distributes all of the alcohol in the country??
I was under the impression that they are at the extreme end of the scale when it comes to alcohol.


Off to search I go.

Many years ago my mother went on the ferry from Helsinki to Tallinn, possibly the original booze cruise. Finnish nationals would go to Tallinn and stock up on booze and bring home. She said she never saw so many drunk old ladies in her life.

She talked about stepping over passed out old ladies on the stairs on the ferry.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson's controversial Brexit bill could delay the introduction of minimum alcohol pricing across Ireland.

That's according to Alcohol Action Ireland, as the Internal Market Bill makes its way through the House of Commons.

The Oireachtas passed minimum pricing legislation in 2018, but they want to introduce it at the same time as the North.

But Eunan McKinney, from Alcohol Action Ireland, says it should no longer be delayed because of the latest Brexit developments. He said Mr Johnson's bill will cause difficulties for Northern Ireland Minister for Health Robin Swann as he looks to introduce minimum alcohol pricing.

Mr McKinney said: "The Internal Market Bill seeks to establish an internal market within the United Kingdom. The Scottish administration in particular have identified this as a real problem, that is one of the problems Nicola Sturgeon [Scottish First Minister] has most significantly with the Internal Market Bill."

He added: "It is stripping away devolved powers, if you strip away the devolved powers, that certainly will curtail Robin Swann's ability to bring about minimum unit pricing in Northern Ireland."

Finally something good to say about Boris.

wonga77

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Deleted User wrote: »

Many years ago my mother went on the ferry from Helsinki to Tallinn, possibly the original booze cruise. Finnish nationals would go to Tallinn and stock up on booze and bring home. She said she never saw so many drunk old ladies in her life.

She talked about stepping over passed out old ladies on the stairs on the ferry.

Ive done that trip a few times, you're quite correct about them flocking to Talinn for the cheap booze. Not as common now as I think the prices arent as cheap as they were. I never saw anyone passed out though

Suckit

I searched a little, and found out that they definitely do seem at the extreme end of things, even though they are slightly relaxing some laws. They also seem to have invented the alcohol sweets
This caught my attention, but no doubt won't be cheap.
Anyway, OT, but it was because I was surprised that we are closer to Finland prices (which are very high due to their strict laws) than anywhere else, which imho is probably enough.
We don't need Eunan McKinney and his ilk adding pressure to things on our behalf.

Hotblack Desiato

There's an awful whiff of "none purer than a reformed hoor" off those organisations. Terrified that someone, somewhere might be enjoying themselves.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

I'm going to enjoy my homebrew tonight. It's probably not as nice as other people here would make it but it gets the job done.

elperello

E McKinney back in the news calling for immediate implementation of MUP without waiting for NI to move.


https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/alcohol-minimum-unit-pricing-5213835-Sep2020/

Thelonious Monk

elperello wrote: »

E McKinney back in the news calling for immediate implementation of MUP without waiting for NI to move.


https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/alcohol-minimum-unit-pricing-5213835-Sep2020/

What a f*cking w*nker

Capt'n Midnight

elperello wrote: »

E McKinney back in the news calling for immediate implementation of MUP without waiting for NI to move.

That's one of those times when it's better to keep your mouth shut in case people assume you're an idiot rather than proving it.

Thanks to road improvements NI is a lot easier to get to so inconvenience isn't as big a factor as it was.

Revenue can predict how much Excise and VAT will be lost to the UK if that was done. Money that then wouldn't be available for the HSE.

Hotblack Desiato

elperello wrote: »

E McKinney back in the news calling for immediate implementation of MUP without waiting for NI to move.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/alcohol-minimum-unit-pricing-5213835-Sep2020/

Lying through his teeth. €11 bottles of Irish Whiskey? Not in Ireland tha'ts for sure.

Also ignoring that overall alcohol consumption has gone down since pubs were closed, off sales increased but overall consumption is still less.

Alcohol consumption per capita peaked in 2000 and has been falling ever since.

odyssey06

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Lying through his teeth. €11 bottles of Irish Whiskey? Not in Ireland tha'ts for sure.
Also ignoring that overall alcohol consumption has gone down since pubs were closed, off sales increased but overall consumption is still less.
Alcohol consumption per capita peaked in 2000 and has been falling ever since.

In their survey, they listed Drombeg Doonbeg which is €11 in Dunnes as a 40% Irish whiskey. It's a whiskey liqueur at about 20% - 25%.
You would think if they're going to lead with that claim they would double check their figures... but nope.

VinLieger

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Lying through his teeth. €11 bottles of Irish Whiskey? Not in Ireland tha'ts for sure.

Also ignoring that overall alcohol consumption has gone down since pubs were closed, off sales increased but overall consumption is still less.

Alcohol consumption per capita peaked in 2000 and has been falling ever since.

Thats a statistic none of the nimbys like to acknowledge