Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

ohnonotgmail

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And Frances "I can't drink so why should you be able to" Black

nothing worse than a reformed alcoholic

weldoninhio

They always use Scotland as an example too when talking about it, how alcohol consumption dropped slightly. They never mention that drug deaths rose rapidly in the same period.

Thelonious Monk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nothing worse than a reformed alcoholic

Well I admire reformed alcoholics but not ones who try and make booze more expensive for people who can behave themselves

Atlantic Dawn

expectationlost wrote: »

this still hasn't happened gov blaming NI for not implementing it at same time

Yes what would be funny is if the north decided they needed to reduce the duty on alcohol to save a collapsed economy after Brexit, the M1 going in to Newry would be like The Longmile Road.

ohnonotgmail

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well I admire reformed alcoholics but not ones who try and make booze more expensive for people who can behave themselves

i meant in terms of being sanctimonious about alcohol. they assume everybody else has the same issue they have.

elperello

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

And london is expensive compared to the rest of England.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I always found drinking and eating out a good bit cheaper than Dublin, as long as you're not in fancy places in trendy or touristy areas. Eating out here can be so expensive, usually because of the booze.

In a pub in Newcastle last year got a bottle of house wine for £5.

Wednesday Night Wine Night special offer.

Leroy42

Shelflife wrote: »

Something doesnt have to be an election issue to be unwanted. Anyone who buys alcohol obviously doesnt want it and even those who dont buy it cant see the logic in it.

It will affect those on lower incomes dis proportionally more than those on higher incomes and it wont achieve what it proposes to achieve ie: to reduce the amount of alcohol sold and stop problem drinking.

On top of that it creates another cost to the retailer, which again will affect the smaller lower income shops than the big supermarkets.

So all it does it piss everyone off while achieving nothing.

Of course not, but where are the marches, the protests, the sit ins and shut outs?

It would appear that whilst people may think it better not to go this route, they aren't really all that bothered.

They had the perfect opportunity with the recent = election. An election is the time that we are supposed to bring up these issues. People chose not to.

So it seems perfectly reasonable that the TD's now continue on with this on the basis that people really don't mind at all.

No sure what additional costs to the retailer in brings, they will not have to be constantly changing offers. IN terms of who is benefits, the vitners (although I do not see it being much of a benefit), the main brands, retailers themselves (they tend to get a certain margin on products so 20% of €2 is worth more to them than 20% of €1.

I can actually see it benefitting local off licences, there on't be major price wars in the supermarkets anymore.

Hotblack Desiato

Leroy42 wrote: »

Is that graph relative to average wages or similar benchmark or just a flat price comparison?

EU average = 100, so Finland is 91% more expensive than the EU average, and we're not very far behind them.

Leroy42

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

EU average = 100, so Finland is 91% more expensive than the EU average, and we're not very far behind them.

Sure, I get that, but it needs to be framed in the context of earnings does it not?

I am not saying that Ireland will not come out of it in the same place, but a fairer comparison, IMO, would be against earnings or maybe average grocery spend or something.

Hotblack Desiato

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course not, but where are the marches, the protests, the sit ins and shut outs?

Many if not most people either aren't aware of this, or only have a vague idea, don't think it'll affect anything other than Dutch Gold, etc.

The media coverage is completely one-sided and often totally inaccurate or a parroted press release with no fact checking whatsoever. Anyone coming out against it publicly is liable to be demonised, it's "Turn Off The Red Light" all over again.

It's hard to mobilise people over an issue that is a hypothetical rather than something which is already happening.

Hotblack Desiato

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sure, I get that, but it needs to be framed in the context of earnings does it not?

Why? Why should alcohol be more expensive simply because wages are higher? It's not like we had cheap alcohol here when we were still poor by European standards.

Geuze

punisher5112 wrote: »

So is Bailey's and basically anything, there is so much tax and vat added here....

Beer excise is very similar here and in the UK.

It is not the cause of the price difference.

Diageo charge higher wholesale prices here, this is well known.

We know from the Aviva stadium case, from the Wetherspoons case, etc.

Thelonious Monk

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why? Why should alcohol be more expensive simply because wages are higher? It's not like we had cheap alcohol here when we were still poor by European standards.

I remember it being dearer 20 years ago or so, as in it was 5 euro for 5 hackenberg, whereas it's still the same now, regardless of wage increases and inflation etc.

Amirani

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why? Why should alcohol be more expensive simply because wages are higher? It's not like we had cheap alcohol here when we were still poor by European standards.

In order to properly assess how expensive alcohol is here relative to elsewhere, you need to either compare it to prices generally, compare it to wages or look at it in terms of purchasing power parity.

Just showing a chart of alcohol prices alone is fairly meaningless. It's cheapest in Romania, but everything is cheap in Romania so it doesn't tell you much.

weldoninhio

Amirani wrote: »

In order to properly assess how expensive alcohol is here relative to elsewhere, you need to either compare it to prices generally, compare it to wages or look at it in terms of purchasing power parity.

Just showing a chart of alcohol prices alone is fairly meaningless. It's cheapest in Romania, but everything is cheap in Romania so it doesn't tell you much.

Is it more expensive to brew beer for Ireland than it is for Romania??

Shelflife

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course not, but where are the marches, the protests, the sit ins and shut outs?

It would appear that whilst people may think it better not to go this route, they aren't really all that bothered.

They had the perfect opportunity with the recent = election. An election is the time that we are supposed to bring up these issues. People chose not to.

So it seems perfectly reasonable that the TD's now continue on with this on the basis that people really don't mind at all.

No sure what additional costs to the retailer in brings, they will not have to be constantly changing offers. IN terms of who is benefits, the vitners (although I do not see it being much of a benefit), the main brands, retailers themselves (they tend to get a certain margin on products so 20% of €2 is worth more to them than 20% of €1.

I can actually see it benefitting local off licences, there on't be major price wars in the supermarkets anymore.

Theres none of that because its not a priority really, in the big scheme of things its pretty low. That doesnt make it right though or make it a good thing to do.


Retailers will gain initially but the increased margin will be quickly eroded by the wholesalers, 20% margin is only available in our dreams though :-)

There are significant costs in the bill for retailers as they now have to cordon off the off licence area and install gates at the entrance, for some its €500-€1000 for others its a significant cost as it will result in a shop layout change that can run into many thousands of euros.

Its doing something to be seen to be doing something.

Its a Public Health bill that will do nothing to improve the health of the public !

Fr Tod Umptious

Shelflife wrote: »

Theres none of that because its not a priority really, in the big scheme of things its pretty low. That doesnt make it right though or make it a good thing to do.


Retailers will gain initially but the increased margin will be quickly eroded by the wholesalers, 20% margin is only available in our dreams though :-)

There are significant costs in the bill for retailers as they now have to cordon off the off licence area and install gates at the entrance, for some its €500-€1000 for others its a significant cost as it will result in a shop layout change that can run into many thousands of euros.

Its doing something to be seen to be doing something.

Its a Public Health bill that will do nothing to improve the health of the public !

That has been my take on it all along.
MUP is far from an ideal measure, but some of the reactions on here are way over the top.
Plenty on here said they would make it an election issue, plenty of talk of dictatorships etc.

People will look baton this thread in a few years and wonder WTF were they getting so excited about the price of off license booze for.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That has been my take on it all along.
MUP is far from an ideal measure, but some of the reactions on here are way over the top.
Plenty on here said they would make it an election issue, plenty of talk of dictatorships etc.

People will look baton this thread in a few years and wonder WTF were they getting so excited about the price of off license booze for.

Surprise, surprise, people are annoyed about something being more expensive. It's truly baffling isn't it?

elperello

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That has been my take on it all along.
MUP is far from an ideal measure, but some of the reactions on here are way over the top.
Plenty on here said they would make it an election issue, plenty of talk of dictatorships etc.

People will look baton this thread in a few years and wonder WTF were they getting so excited about the price of off license booze for.

Deleted User wrote: »

Surprise, surprise, people are annoyed about something being more expensive. It's truly baffling isn't it?

I can only speak for myself but if I look back on this thread in a few years I won't be sorry for trying to expose the nonsense that is MUP.

I will never accept that it is just or moral to charge me more than the market price for a few drinks in my own home.

Yellow_Fern

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That has been my take on it all along.
MUP is far from an ideal measure, but some of the reactions on here are way over the top.
Plenty on here said they would make it an election issue, plenty of talk of dictatorships etc.

People will look baton this thread in a few years and wonder WTF were they getting so excited about the price of off license booze for.

Well I look at the price of alcohol here today and compare it to what it was a two generations ago and then I look at Germany where you can buy a 0.5 L beer for 30 c without excessive alcohol abuse and I see there was a serious con going on by the irish gov for a long time.

The "I" newspaper had the headline yesterday: Britania Waives the Rules.

How likely is a cross border agreement on this when Britain reneges on agreements?

We're in recession, they increase the price of alcohol, heres an idea, lets go to Newry for the day, fill up on fuel, and booze.

Vic_08

Deleted User wrote: »

The "I" newspaper had the headline yesterday: Britania Waives the Rules.

How likely is a cross border agreement on this when Britain reneges on agreements?

We're in recession, they increase the price of alcohol, heres an idea, lets go to Newry for the day, fill up on fuel, and booze.

People within a reasonable distance of the border already do their shopping this way and have for decades.

Before Aldi/Lidl forced the cosy Irish grocery cartels into something approaching competitive pricing it was worth it to travel to Newry from Dublin every so often for a car load of long life supplies.

It may get to the point when it'll be cheaper for those from across the country to do a "booze cruise" by road once or twice a year.

The real problem in this kip is it is death by a thousand cuts, almost all consumer sectors are more expensive, taxes are higher and unlike other high tax European countries we get crap, often expensive public services for all our money.

Vic_08

Vic_08 wrote: »

People within a reasonable distance of the border already do their shopping this way and have for decades.

Before Aldi/Lidl forced the cosy Irish grocery cartels into something approaching competitive pricing it was worth it to travel to Newry from Dublin every so often for a car load of long life supplies.

It may get to the point when it'll be cheaper for those from across the country to do a "booze cruise" by road once or twice a year.

The real problem in this kip is it is death by a thousand cuts, almost all consumer sectors are more expensive, taxes are higher and unlike other high tax European countries we get crap, often expensive public services for all our money.

I gave some technical help to someone on boards a few years ago. They were very appreciative and said they were doing a booze cruise to Newry that weekend and invited me along. So, I know its been common for years.

I was in the UK at the start of the year and the disparity of prices of everything was astounding. We were self catering so eating in most nights. I remember one night I got the doings for dinner, a bottle of whiskey, a bottle of wine, dessert and got change out of £20.

"Can I get a plastic bag please?"
"That'll be an extra 5p, is that ok?"

I worked in a UK office a while back and the tea/coffee wasn't free but it was subsidised. How much was a cup of tea? 25p.

Amirani

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is it more expensive to brew beer for Ireland than it is for Romania??

Yes, considerably.

Fr Tod Umptious

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Well I look at the price of alcohol here today and compare it to what it was a two generations ago and then I look at Germany where you can buy a 0.5 L beer for 30 c without excessive alcohol abuse and I see there was a serious con going on by the irish gov for a long time.

Price of off license alcohol is much cheaper now than a generation or two ago.
Back in the mid 90s a can of beer was approx IR£1.
Now it can be as low as €1.
Given the way wages have risen over the 25 years, the can is cheaper in relative terms now.

Now I don't think it has ever been cheaper than Germany, but equally I believe its cheaper here than in Scandinavia.

There is no evidence that a European attitude to alcohol is any more healthy than our own either.
I posted a report here a long time ago that indicated that whereas we tend to die from alcohol related accidents more, mainland Europeans die from alcohol related cancers more.

odyssey06

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Price of off license alcohol is much cheaper now than a generation or two ago.
Back in the mid 90s a can of beer was approx IR£1.
Now it can be as low as €1.
Given the way wages have risen over the 25 years, the can is cheaper in relative terms now.
Now I don't think it has ever been cheaper than Germany, but equally I believe its cheaper here than in Scandinavia.

It's not, if you are talking about supermarkets.

I've been to LIDL in Copenhagen - alcohol was cheaper than here.
Pubs in Copenhagen - alcohol more expensive unless 'happy hour'.

We don't need minimum pricing. Just enforce the laws we already have on drink driving, drunk and disorderly etc

weldoninhio

Amirani wrote: »

Yes, considerably.

Frankly, that’s nonsense.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Frankly, that’s nonsense.

Its not.

Wages are significantly higher here than Romania. So everyone from the guy who plants the crops, to the guy who harvests to the guy who drives the finished product to Tesco earn a multiple of his opposite number in Romania. That all increases the price. Then add Vat to everything. Then Duty.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not.

Wages are significantly higher here than Romania. So everyone from the guy who plants the crops, to the guy who harvests to the guy who drives the finished product to Tesco earn a multiple of his opposite number in Romania. That all increases the price. Then add Vat to everything. Then Duty.

manufacturing costs do not account for the price differences between countries. they dont the same product in every country. they make each product in one or two countries and ship it around europe.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its not.

Wages are significantly higher here than Romania. So everyone from the guy who plants the crops, to the guy who harvests to the guy who drives the finished product to Tesco earn a multiple of his opposite number in Romania. That all increases the price. Then add Vat to everything. Then Duty.

What are you talking about? Can you not read? I wasn’t comparing brewing here and brewing there. I’m talking about mass produced lager which costs the same amount to brew in Holland/Germany/Czechia no matter if they’re sending it to Ireland or Romania or any other country.