Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

So because your local shop is alright, then its grand.

You should change your name to Fr "I'm alright" Jack.

Considering shops are already under pressure due to Covid-19, is it really prudent to make things more difficult for them by bringing in this pointless legislation.

Their point was that is was possible that that shop adjusted.

Again, just because something is hard or an inconvenience doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. We hear this everytime new legislation is tried.

Smoking ban was going cause the destruction of the pub trade, Every tightening of the drink driving limit was the signal for the end of social life. Cigarettes behind the counter meant the end of small shops.

Humans are nothing if not creative, if there is money to be made people will find a way

ohnonotgmail

Leroy42 wrote: »

Their point was that is was possible that that shop adjusted.

Again, just because something is hard or an inconvenience doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. We hear this everytime new legislation is tried.

Smoking ban was going cause the destruction of the pub trade, Every tightening of the drink driving limit was the signal for the end of social life. Cigarettes behind the counter meant the end of small shops.

Humans are nothing if not creative, if there is money to be made people will find a way

that is fine if there is a point to what is being done.

amadangomor

Potential-Monke wrote: »

*cough*Legalise cannabis*cough*

Watch that stoner's cough dude :pac:

Leroy42

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that is fine if there is a point to what is being done.

Totally agree, which I stated in my earlier post.

But the post I was responding to was waking the point that shops would struggle. Not that the law would be unwise.

odyssey06

Leroy42 wrote: »

Their point was that is was possible that that shop adjusted. Again, just because something is hard or an inconvenience doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. We hear this everytime new legislation is tried.
Smoking ban was going cause the destruction of the pub trade, Every tightening of the drink driving limit was the signal for the end of social life. Cigarettes behind the counter meant the end of small shops.
Humans are nothing if not creative, if there is money to be made people will find a way

Yes it can be overplayed but there's a limit to how much costs you can load onto small businesses before they go under. And people wonder what happened their local X and they have to go to Tesco now for anything.
It can be very hard to say which straw broke the camel's back.

ohnonotgmail

Leroy42 wrote: »

Totally agree, which I stated in my earlier post.

But the post I was responding to was waking the point that shops would struggle. Not that the law would be unwise.

shops will struggle. especially smaller ones. and all for no good reason.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Totally agree, which I stated in my earlier post.

But the post I was responding to was waking the point that shops would struggle. Not that the law would be unwise.

The example given which I replied to was a shop which underwent a refurbishment, something which presumeably they had been saving up for and had the funds to do it.

That won't be the case for most shops. This is an additional cost at a time when many are already struggling.

I also think the law is completely pointless and will achieve nothing whatsoever.

I'm off now to buy some alcohol, and even if I had to go down 2 flights of stairs to the basement where it's now being sold, I'd still be going to buy it.

elperello

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/fatal-flaw-in-minimum-alcohol-pricing-1.4335130

A letter in yesterday's Irish Times in which Sean Barrett of TCD outlines the case against MUP from an economic and taxation viewpoint.

Worth remembering that as a Senator he was the only member of the Oireachtas to raise his voice against MUP.

The rest of them swallowed it whole.

Hotblack Desiato

Last Saturday's Irish TImes had a front page ad saying "alcohol is too cheap". Whatever group is behind it is too cowardly to give their name, but no prizes for guessing :rolleyes:


This is the article Barrett was responding to:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/alcohol-selling-for-pocket-money-prices-says-lobby-group-1.4334312

“Throughout the Covid-19 crisis we have witnessed a significant shift in alcohol use, with hyper-competitive pricing fuelling a massive surge in off-trade sales and an increase in domestic drinking,” said Dr Joe Barry, adjunct professor of public health medicine at Trinity College Dublin.

Two outright lies in that little paragraph. Everybody could see that there were fewer and less attractive supermarket alcohol offers during lockdown, it was a captive market. And he implies that people were drinking more - yes they were drinking more at home, but nothing in restaurants and pubs.

Overall alcohol consumption went down.

Disgraceful that they can spout stuff like this and the media just parrot it and never challenge it.

odyssey06

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Last Saturday's Irish TImes had a front page ad saying "alcohol is too cheap". Whatever group is behind it is too cowardly to give their name, but no prizes for guessing :rolleyes:

Thread here discussing it querying some of the ABVs and bottle sizes... one blatant mistake:
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058106285/1

Geuze

Fresh Eurostat data on alcohol prices

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20200908-1?inheritRedirect=true&redirect=%2Feurostat%2F

2019 data, EU27 = 100




Ireland is in second place.

Source data:

https://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?query=BOOKMARK_DS-053404_QID_-7CB78A68_UID_-3F171EB0&layout=TIME,C,X,0;GEO,L,Y,0;NA_ITEM,L,Z,0;PPP_CAT,L,Z,1;INDICATORS,C,Z,2;&zSelection=DS-053404PPP_CAT,A010201;DS-053404INDICATORS,OBS_FLAG;DS-053404NA_ITEM,PLI_EU27_2020;&rankName1=PPP-CAT_1_2_-1_2&rankName2=INDICATORS_1_2_-1_2&rankName3=NA-ITEM_1_2_-1_2&rankName4=TIME_1_0_0_0&rankName5=GEO_1_2_0_1&sortC=ASC_-1_FIRST&rStp=&cStp=&rDCh=&cDCh=&rDM=true&cDM=true&footnes=false&empty=false&wai=false&time_mode=ROLLING&time_most_recent=true&lang=EN&cfo=%23%23%23%2C%23%23%23.%23%23%23

odyssey06

Geuze wrote: »

Ireland is in second place.[/url]

Lies, damn lies.

Drink must be cheap. Everyone with an agenda or who has never bought a drink anywhere else in the EU says so.

Leroy42

Is that graph relative to average wages or similar benchmark or just a flat price comparison?

Thelonious Monk

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

punisher5112

If they're so concerned give cards to social welfare recipients and have it it can only pay for essential items, basically anything but drink or smokes.... Simples.

Geuze

Leroy42 wrote: »

Is that graph relative to average wages or similar benchmark or just a flat price comparison?

Relative to EU27 average.

Yellow_Fern

Way too much inertia on this topic. The Adam Smith Institute had some interviews on Irish TV against MUP. I am sure they are will to do criticisms for the Irish press if they were encouraged.

bronkobilly

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

drink is cheaper in the uk bought some guiness over there way cheaper and its made here that s a laugh

punisher5112

bronkobilly wrote: »

drink is cheaper in the uk bought some guiness over there way cheaper and its made here that s a laugh

So is Bailey's and basically anything, there is so much tax and vat added here....

ohnonotgmail

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

And london is expensive compared to the rest of England.

Thelonious Monk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

And london is expensive compared to the rest of England.

I always found drinking and eating out a good bit cheaper than Dublin, as long as you're not in fancy places in trendy or touristy areas. Eating out here can be so expensive, usually because of the booze.

Fr Tod Umptious

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

What I have always loved most about this thread is the hyperbole.

Thelonious Monk

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]
What I have always loved most about this thread is the hyperbole.

Pushing something through that no one wants, apart from a few outliers like yourself, is not democratic

Leroy42

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Pushing something through that no one wants, apart from a few outliers like yourself, is not democratic

When you say no one wants, on what basis are you saying that?

It certainly wasn't a major, or even minor, talking point in the last election.

expectationlost

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Last Saturday's Irish TImes had a front page ad saying "alcohol is too cheap". Whatever group is behind it is too cowardly to give their name, but no prizes for guessing :rolleyes:

it seems to be a charity set up by a Cork guy who made money selling cars https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30971955.html https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/businessman-building-bridge-to-a-more-equal-ireland-1.3734289

expectationlost

this still hasn't happened gov blaming NI for not implementing it at same time

Shelflife

Leroy42 wrote: »

When you say no one wants, on what basis are you saying that?

It certainly wasn't a major, or even minor, talking point in the last election.

Something doesnt have to be an election issue to be unwanted. Anyone who buys alcohol obviously doesnt want it and even those who dont buy it cant see the logic in it.

It will affect those on lower incomes dis proportionally more than those on higher incomes and it wont achieve what it proposes to achieve ie: to reduce the amount of alcohol sold and stop problem drinking.

On top of that it creates another cost to the retailer, which again will affect the smaller lower income shops than the big supermarkets.

So all it does it piss everyone off while achieving nothing.

ohnonotgmail

Shelflife wrote: »

Something doesnt have to be an election issue to be unwanted. Anyone who buys alcohol obviously doesnt want it and even those who dont buy it cant see the logic in it.

It will affect those on lower incomes dis proportionally more than those on higher incomes and it wont achieve what it proposes to achieve ie: to reduce the amount of alcohol sold and stop problem drinking.

On top of that it creates another cost to the retailer, which again will affect the smaller lower income shops than the big supermarkets.

So all it does it piss everyone off while achieving nothing.

well to be fair it does do something. It makes the publican lobby happy.

Thelonious Monk

Leroy42 wrote: »

When you say no one wants, on what basis are you saying that?

It certainly wasn't a major, or even minor, talking point in the last election.

I've seen a few polls on the issue where 85% or so were against this. I don't know anyone who would agree with these price increases.

Thelonious Monk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well to be fair it does do something. It makes the publican lobby happy.

And Frances "I can't drink so why should you be able to" Black