Dairy chit chat II

Fixture

Market value of Glanbia co-op shares bought at 5 per share is still 5 per share so there should be no issue in that case. "See through" value is irrelevant because you can't access it anywhere. It is a calculation based on the assets of the Co Op divided by all the shares.
The problem for Kerry is that Co Op shares were trading at prices of 60, 70, 90 in 2011 to 2013 as per Revenue argument. Their see through value was higher again and the buyers knew that.
I presume Kerry farmers who received the shares for 1.27 will argue that they could not all sell Co Op shares at the inflated prices as it was a small volume market with a price set by a small number of transactions.
The legal boys will make a nice few bob form this one yet.

farmersfriend

whelan2 wrote: »

When kids are slow getting out of bed here for school, they get cold hands, makes them move fairly quick

That's gas, I do the same!!

Timmaay

Got a cow here who has very watery dung, typical fluke suspect, except she has not responded to the 4 or 5 doses of zanil over the year, even now after being on maize the last few weeks still loose as anything. The vet took a dung sample afew months back while he was doing other animals, at the time he suspected jonnes, but nothing showed up on the dung sample. Any ideas? Decent cow, calves early March most years and due 1st March again this year! I'm drying her off in afew days time because I'm sick of her scuttering all over the parlour ha, maybe fastenex will cure her at dryoff?

blue5000

Timmaay wrote: »

Got a cow here who has very watery dung, typical fluke suspect, except she has not responded to the 4 or 5 doses of zanil over the year, even now after being on maize the last few weeks still loose as anything. The vet took a dung sample afew months back while he was doing other animals, at the time he suspected jonnes, but nothing showed up on the dung sample. Any ideas? Decent cow, calves early March most years and due 1st March again this year! I'm drying her off in afew days time because I'm sick of her scuttering all over the parlour ha, maybe fastenex will cure her at dryoff?

AFAIK johnes is hard to test for, sometimes they have false negatives. Rumen fluke, or does zanil work on that?

blackdog1

Timmaay wrote:

Got a cow here who has very watery dung, typical fluke suspect, except she has not responded to the 4 or 5 doses of zanil over the year, even now after being on maize the last few weeks still loose as anything. The vet took a dung sample afew months back while he was doing other animals, at the time he suspected jonnes, but nothing showed up on the dung sample. Any ideas? Decent cow, calves early March most years and due 1st March again this year! I'm drying her off in afew days time because I'm sick of her scuttering all over the parlour ha, maybe fastenex will cure her at dryoff?

What else did you test for in the dung? Crypto? Also acidosis could cause scouring.

Buford T. Justice XIX

blue5000 wrote: »

AFAIK johnes is hard to test for, sometimes they have false negatives. Rumen fluke, or does zanil work on that?

Zanil does Rumen Fluke as well as mature Liver Fluke, iirc.

It does tend to scour cattle getting it for a few days though.

kowtow

Who are the potential buyers of the coop shares and are you required to maintain a number to milk for example? Is the class of people able to buy the shares limited in some functional fashion or by the (arbitary) requirement that the board approve the transaction?

The line the revenue is attempting to follow is that of open market value... ie. That shares were given in lieu of cash for milk and were freely exchangeable by the recipient at a significant premium. My argument would be that there is not an open market for the shares (see above) and that they should be taxed as income only to the extent of the value of the milk they paid for. Any premium should be taxed as a capital gain when and if it is crystallised by a future sale.

Edit: if anyone is talking to their accountant on this it might be worth asking him to look at the taxation of what are known as scrip dividends... quite an unusual practice now but when a company pays a portion of the dividend in the form of additional shares. Certainly the practice in the UK at one time was that these are only taxed in disposal not when given to replace income but I have no idea of the Irish position and can't look it up easily while milking. A decent accountant or lawyer will see the parallel and the precedent.

whelan2

blue5000 wrote: »

AFAIK johnes is hard to test for, sometimes they have false negatives. Rumen fluke, or does zanil work on that?

we blood test everything over 2 years of age for johnes at tb test. You get the odd false positive. Timmaay what age is she?

mf240

A few shots of multi vitamin can sometimes cure a skuttery cow.

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

we blood test everything over 2 years of age for johnes at tb test. You get the odd false positive. Timmaay what age is she?

7th lactation. Other than she is due to calf early March I'd be letting her on.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

7th lactation. Other than she is due to calf early March I'd be letting her on.

She's nearly too old for johnes at that age

greysides

Timmaay wrote: »

Got a cow here who has very watery dung, typical fluke suspect, except she has not responded to the 4 or 5 doses of zanil over the year...

Were parasites checked in the sample or was it just for Johne's?

If she hasn't been wormed recently I'd be doing that. If no response in a few days I'd be considering redoing the Johne's faecal test.

Chronic Salmonellosis is also a potential culprit but you'd need to talk to your vet about that. Maybe get the dung checked for that too...?

alps

This revenue letter to Kerry farmers is like the Kaikoura earthquake, and the aftershocks may rumble on for ages through various other coops. It will not now go away....there may be lots to unearth....bonus shares, shares transferred with farms...lots and lots of difficulty.

And the industry continued its voyage of indeference and stupidity when it linked production to shares. ....linked production to a non agricultural asset...

But who were we mere farmers to warn about tax issues relating to shares....

pedigree 6

mf240 wrote: »

A few shots of multi vitamin can sometimes cure a skuttery cow.

Could well be a cobalt deficiency.

Thus, Co deficiency may cause illthrift, pining, weakness, scour and emaciation in lambs and calves and, sometimes in adults.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/2manual.htm

kowtow

alps wrote:

..linked production to a non agricultural asset...

So true. They just don't see it.. it's like all the discussion of mortgage limits and house prices. It's not supply and demand nor the cost of building... it's greed and fear of loss on a speculation. That's why they call it getting on the "housing ladder".

Who wouldnt want a foot on a ladder?

If houses were only something to live in we wouldn't have a crisis.

visatorro

Timmaay wrote: »

7th lactation. Other than she is due to calf early March I'd be letting her on.

Remember someone saying before that zanil was a low quality dose. I couldn't recommend another drench but maybe if you tried her with a pour on or injection just to mix up the medicine!!

Then again she's nearly ten, could just be old age!!

atlantic mist

alps wrote: »

This revenue letter to Kerry farmers is like the Kaikoura earthquake, and the aftershocks may rumble on for ages through various other coops. It will not now go away....there may be lots to unearth....bonus shares, shares transferred with farms...lots and lots of difficulty.

And the industry continued its voyage of indeference and stupidity when it linked production to shares. ....linked production to a non agricultural asset...

But who were we mere farmers to warn about tax issues relating to shares....

if all milk processors were transparent on milk price these issues wouldnt occur, just pay the best price and stop messing with schemes and shares, only one party generally gets burned. we get rebates on fertiliser and meal with glanbia, we account for this by deducting from purchase price how many lads put in full cost of meal/fertiliser and say nothing about coop rebates??

i had to buy 2000 shares for eligibility to coop bonus, no tax due this is not income, its a cost for me and its an asset in a grey markets so no open market value, ( i do think they are hugely over valued at the 5 euro mark) talks of more investments required to ensure processing for suppliers (even though they have really struggled to sell additional produce for last two years so more spin out on the way id imagine even though a flatter supply curve is what is required (lost algeria powder trade as couldnt supply all year round)

whelan2

Sent the last survivor of my ragwort poisoning purchasing ordeal to the factory the other day got 642 Euro for her straight from parlour

whelan2

Any recommendations for good dovea ai bulls?

blue5000

whelan2 wrote: »

Any recommendations for good dovea ai bulls?

MLJ;)

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

Any recommendations for good dovea ai bulls?

Fr2380' bred by a guy not a million miles from u ,sew another good one ,lots of very good Bulls in dovea

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

Any recommendations for good dovea ai bulls?

If you want something a bit different try progressive they got us in a special order of s3136 from the states if his genomic proofs come good he will throw cracking stock, total out cross to bar Oman back 4 generations

Buford T. Justice XIX

Cows all dried off today, thankfully. I forgot to count the short round when buying the tubes so I had to go to collect more before I could finish. And the vet came and gave a shot of Mycotil to 3 high SCC ladies so I'll be interested to see how those 3 come back into milk cell count wise.

Switching off the alarm clock for a couple of weeks now:)

RightTurnClyde

sweeeeet.
First day at OAD here. Will stay on OAD till the 15th.
Off to cork for pints this evening, happy days

Buford T. Justice XIX

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Hi everyone as some may know the ICOS dairy Co-op training program has been cancelled due to lack of interest.....
I am trying to get it reopened.
I need people and I need people fast I need this need to be finalised be Wednesday or its gone for another year.
If anyone knows of anybody who would be interested / is the type of person that should or would like to do the course or any one who would do the course if he/she just got the encouragement of being asked todo the course. If could you put them in contact with my self please that would be great. or i could contact them my self if I was pointed in the wright direction.

Course content
Co-Op rules, structure and governance Icos
Introduction to Co-Op finance
Introduction to Co-Op legal framework ICOS
Agriculture policy ICOS
International dairy marketing Irish dairy board ICOS
Leadership & strategy ICOS
Onsite visit to moorepark Agriculture collage

Cost of course €155 which includes dinner and one overnight stay in the horse and jockey.
Course dates as of now 28,29 November & 15 December in the horse and jockey. December 14 in Moorepark. These dates are subject to change

If anyone might be interested in this drop me a PM.
Shane to see it go

This course has been postponed till Jan 5th and 6th if anybody is still interested with the dates changed.

Fixture

atlantic mist wrote: »

if all milk processors were transparent on milk price these issues wouldnt occur, just pay the best price and stop messing with schemes and shares, only one party generally gets burned. we get rebates on fertiliser and meal with glanbia, we account for this by deducting from purchase price how many lads put in full cost of meal/fertiliser and say nothing about coop rebates??

i had to buy 2000 shares for eligibility to coop bonus, no tax due this is not income, its a cost for me and its an asset in a grey markets so no open market value, ( i do think they are hugely over valued at the 5 euro mark) talks of more investments required to ensure processing for suppliers (even though they have really struggled to sell additional produce for last two years so more spin out on the way id imagine even though a flatter supply curve is what is required (lost algeria powder trade as couldnt supply all year round)

You are jumping a few hurdles there.
Market price for Glanbia co op shares is currently €5 - same as what you paid for them.
Income tax is due on co op bonus and dividends that you receive in any given year. Same as any other cash/trading income

MF290

https://www.farmtv.com/video-details/episode-22-drumgoon-dairy

Another interesting bit on the fermanagh man who is dairy farming in South Dakota

Buford T. Justice XIX

I just came across this tweet about grass cost and value. The figures are from Wales but are a guide to the relative values and costs.

https://twitter.com/MrSuperFibre/status/783990931225706497

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I just came across this tweet about grass cost and value. The figures are from Wales but are a guide to the relative values and costs.

https://twitter.com/MrSuperFibre/status/783990931225706497

Would be interesting to see how its value was calculated. Dont see how grass could be valued so much higher than maize...

jaymla627

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Would be interesting to see how its value was calculated. Dont see how grass could be valued so much higher than maize...

How in the name of God the actual value of grass is 197 sterling a ton of dm is mind-boggling, take a strict grass based farm stocked at 3 cows per hectare, and 4000 litres a cow being got from grass.....
Assume 16 ton grass ha is being utilised which would be top 10%, ha of grass is worth apparently 3152 pound a year, if you take a average milk price of 23 pence including good solids for a Welsh farmer he would be looking at a total income of 2760 in milk sales, so from a start point their grass true worth value is minus nearly 400 pounds, before all the other fixed and variable costs that occur as part of running a dairy farm.....