Dairy chit chat II

Mooooo

One morning I need to get the cows done early dumbass here let's the wire down directing to parlour and cows head for a gallop to the last fecking field on the pasaage

kowtow

Fixture wrote:

Lots of unqualified opinions being offered here so I'd advise any one potentially affected to talk to a good accountant before engaging with Revenue.

+1

Agree with that completely.

But make sure you can get an accountant who is prepared to fight if there is actually something to fight here. I can see how harsh it appears but whether as gains or income accretions will always be taxed. A lot of the problem lies with the nature of the underlying corporate transactions and the failure to ensure farmers were properly advised at the time.

Of course, if they had been, we might not be where we are at all.

whelan2

Do Kerry / REVENUE expect people to pay the tax due in December 2016?

blue5000

Welcome to Dairy chit chat II, opened this as we were close to our 10,000 post count limit on the old thread, which can be viewed here;
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057467893&page=667

DKDairy

has anyone ever used batt latch for gaps ? timer which open gaps at set time..whats yer opinion of them?

Timmaay

3rd cow with mastitis since they have had access to the cubicles ughhhh. How much is the Glanbia liquid quote worth again? This winter milk crack isn't worth the hardship.

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

3rd cow with mastitis since they have had access to the cubicles ughhhh. How much is the Glanbia liquid quote worth again? This winter milk crack isn't worth the hardship.

What bedding you using? Changed to 10% hydrated lime from agrical and found an improvement. also yours are still on grass? perhaps dung is looser? I find they get cleaner when adjusted to indoor diet. Have way too many cows on cubicles here at the minute but have had one case recently but more to do with the teat cracking, and she wouldn't milk out in it then. STRANGE cos it it went that way before housing and the cutnheal spray seems to be doing no good. And typical best cow in place, 8th lactation calves on the button and 4% p, first time getting a mastitis tube.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

3rd cow with mastitis since they have had access to the cubicles ughhhh. How much is the Glanbia liquid quote worth again? This winter milk crack isn't worth the hardship.

Sold 2 offenders here to a suckler man the other day.

Keepgrowing

DKDairy wrote: »

has anyone ever used batt latch for gaps ? timer which open gaps at set time..whats yer opinion of them?

Yes, super yoke.
It needs an additional cover as water will eventually seep in. Highly recommended one. We set at same time as clock and cows make their own way

DKDairy

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Yes, super yoke.
It needs an additional cover as water will eventually seep in. Highly recommended one. We set at same time as clock and cows make their own way

best place to buy one? only seen on youtube

Keepgrowing

DKDairy wrote: »

best place to buy one? only seen on youtube

I got from Glanbia. Stradbally fa services are the importers. Co Laois

Keepgrowing

DKDairy wrote: »

best place to buy one? only seen on youtube

http://stradballyfarmservices.com/pel/gates-gate-products/

Timmaay

Mooooo wrote: »

What bedding you using? Changed to 10% hydrated lime from agrical and found an improvement. also yours are still on grass? perhaps dung is looser? I find they get cleaner when adjusted to indoor diet. Have way too many cows on cubicles here at the minute but have had one case recently but more to do with the teat cracking, and she wouldn't milk out in it then. STRANGE cos it it went that way before housing and the cutnheal spray seems to be doing no good. And typical best cow in place, 8th lactation calves on the button and 4% p, first time getting a mastitis tube.

1st few days it was pure hydrated with sawdust over it, got a ton bag of 10% now. 80 cows on 60 cubicles but I locked 15 of them in the calving shed the last 3 nights to take the pressure off. Bulk tank scc around 140, it's almost definitely some bug causing it I'm thinking. 3 cows with it have been turfed back out to a fresh paddock fulltime to prevent it spreading.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

1st few days it was pure hydrated with sawdust over it, got a ton bag of 10% now. 80 cows on 60 cubicles but I locked 15 of them in the calving shed the last 3 nights to take the pressure off. Bulk tank scc around 140, it's almost definitely some bug causing it I'm thinking. 3 cows with it have been turfed back out to a fresh paddock fulltime to prevent it spreading.

That's a lot to do with it Tim ,overcrowding and hygiene /cleanliness .were cubicles washed and disinfected prior to housing ,how often do u run scrapers (alt least every 2 hours packed that tight )scrape down and lime cubicles twice daily ,clip cows tails

blackdog1

What I find works for me

1 disenfect cubicles with boiling water and soregen ( boiling water gives it a great kill.l). I use a watering can on front half of Cubicles...you need to give it a good soak. I find this better than the sprayer. Do this once a week.

2 lime with 10% hydrated lime and pure hydrated once a week.

Also make sure you use a good teat dip and cull any high scc cows of possible.

I also find of you push on silage or feed it while the cows are locked in the yard they eat and don't sit down straight away.... Gives them time for the teats to close.

blue5000

Sawdust on it's own is bad because the bugs can live in it, not sure if 10% lime would be enough to drive the pH up high enough to kill bugs.

atlantic mist

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/ebrief/2016/no-942016.html

kerry lads better get the cheque books out, tough for those who didnt cash in at highs, share price has taken a dip lately

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

That's a lot to do with it Tim ,overcrowding and hygiene /cleanliness .were cubicles washed and disinfected prior to housing ,how often do u run scrapers (alt least every 2 hours packed that tight )scrape down and lime cubicles twice daily ,clip cows tails

I'm reasonably on the ball with all that above, cows are out by day, and at night 15 get removed so nearly a cubicle per cow. However thinking about it again this evening walking through the cubicles, most the mastitis cases now, and last winter were the larger older HO cows, and from keep growings cubicle dimensions last week, I'm beginning to think my cubicles are just far too narrow and short for them big cows, and as a result they probably are standing around too much, and not lying properly or comfortably when they do go into the cubicles. Unfortunately the big HOs are the ones who tend to be calving later so end up milking off the cubicles for longer. Could be worth lengthening all the cubicles in one shed to see if it improves anything, I'm not going to get that done this winter though. Breeding out all of the large HOs is the ultimate aim but that's slow progress also ha.

visatorro

Water heater in parlour fecked. Keep trying to shove my hands up the woman's jumper to warm them, she's not impressed.

whelan2

visatorro wrote: »

Water heater in parlour fecked. Keep trying to shove my hands up the woman's jumper to warm them, she's not impressed.

When kids are slow getting out of bed here for school, they get cold hands, makes them move fairly quick

OverRide

atlantic mist wrote: »

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/ebrief/2016/no-942016.html

kerry lads better get the cheque books out, tough for those who didnt cash in at highs, share price has taken a dip lately

It has come to the notice of revenue that some farmers have inherited their farms without declaring the true value of said farm
Please go out of business by using the attached form to arrange payment at the top rate on the value of said farm at today's rates

kowtow

visatorro wrote:

Water heater in parlour fecked. Keep trying to shove my hands up the woman's jumper to warm them, she's not impressed.

Jeez the things those milk recorders have to put up with its a wonder they still come out to you....

Brown Podzol

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/ebrief/2016/no-942016.html

Are the bonus shares co-op shares or Plc shares?

Brown Podzol

kowtow wrote: »

Jeez the things those milk recorders have to put up with its a wonder they still come out to you....

If you are a star they let you do it.

pedigree 6

Brown Podzol wrote: »

If you are a star they let you do it.

Too far Brown. Too far.:D
To have a great one you have to post near the edge without going over while giving the impression that your post is in earnest.

OverRide

Brown Podzol wrote: »

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/ebrief/2016/no-942016.html

Are the bonus shares co-op shares or Plc shares?

Co Op shares
So the revenue want to tax them when you get them and when you sell them either as a spin out of plc shares or as a CoOp share

If that's allowed stand,new entrants to Glanbia buying at a fiver a share will be subject to gift tax for the other €50 to €70 that the shares underlying value encompasses

Not to mention other new anomalies this would create

mf240

Milk collected this morning , won't know what I'm getting paid for it until the week before Christmas ,yet a glanbia worker had the audacity to ring to ask if I had the milk survey filled in.

Timmaay

mf240 wrote: »

Milk collected this morning , won't know what I'm getting paid for it until the week before Christmas ,yet a glanbia worker had the audacity to ring to ask if I had the milk survey filled in.

Did you mention that in the comments section? I got a call and afew texts reminding me about it.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

Did you mention that in the comments section? I got a call and afew texts reminding me about it.

I filled the comments section on my one. also got a call and a text reminding me to send it in. Posted it yesterday complete with some cow ****e in the envelope

whelan2

Had a cow stuck in the cubicles this morning. Got her out of cubicle and took her down with scraper. She walked out to field. My dad helped me. Great job to be doing before he headed off for a stress test

jaymla627

OverRide wrote: »

Co Op shares
So the revenue want to tax them when you get them and when you sell them either as a spin out of plc shares or as a CoOp share

If that's allowed stand,new entrants to Glanbia buying at a fiver a share will be subject to gift tax for the other €50 to €70 that the shares underlying value encompasses

Not to mention other new anomalies this would create

The 50-70 euro share value only comes into play if a spinout occurs, had to drop 10 grand on shares here to avail of co-op bonuses, and to keep availing of co-op bonuses I have to maintain the 2000 five euro shares I hold so on what planet can I get hit with a tax bill for the underlying value of shares I hold that i can't cash in, if this s***te was going on in France they would have slurry flowing around the tax offices

Fixture

Market value of Glanbia co-op shares bought at 5 per share is still 5 per share so there should be no issue in that case. "See through" value is irrelevant because you can't access it anywhere. It is a calculation based on the assets of the Co Op divided by all the shares.
The problem for Kerry is that Co Op shares were trading at prices of 60, 70, 90 in 2011 to 2013 as per Revenue argument. Their see through value was higher again and the buyers knew that.
I presume Kerry farmers who received the shares for 1.27 will argue that they could not all sell Co Op shares at the inflated prices as it was a small volume market with a price set by a small number of transactions.
The legal boys will make a nice few bob form this one yet.

farmersfriend

whelan2 wrote: »

When kids are slow getting out of bed here for school, they get cold hands, makes them move fairly quick

That's gas, I do the same!!

Timmaay

Got a cow here who has very watery dung, typical fluke suspect, except she has not responded to the 4 or 5 doses of zanil over the year, even now after being on maize the last few weeks still loose as anything. The vet took a dung sample afew months back while he was doing other animals, at the time he suspected jonnes, but nothing showed up on the dung sample. Any ideas? Decent cow, calves early March most years and due 1st March again this year! I'm drying her off in afew days time because I'm sick of her scuttering all over the parlour ha, maybe fastenex will cure her at dryoff?

blue5000

Timmaay wrote: »

Got a cow here who has very watery dung, typical fluke suspect, except she has not responded to the 4 or 5 doses of zanil over the year, even now after being on maize the last few weeks still loose as anything. The vet took a dung sample afew months back while he was doing other animals, at the time he suspected jonnes, but nothing showed up on the dung sample. Any ideas? Decent cow, calves early March most years and due 1st March again this year! I'm drying her off in afew days time because I'm sick of her scuttering all over the parlour ha, maybe fastenex will cure her at dryoff?

AFAIK johnes is hard to test for, sometimes they have false negatives. Rumen fluke, or does zanil work on that?

blackdog1

Timmaay wrote:

Got a cow here who has very watery dung, typical fluke suspect, except she has not responded to the 4 or 5 doses of zanil over the year, even now after being on maize the last few weeks still loose as anything. The vet took a dung sample afew months back while he was doing other animals, at the time he suspected jonnes, but nothing showed up on the dung sample. Any ideas? Decent cow, calves early March most years and due 1st March again this year! I'm drying her off in afew days time because I'm sick of her scuttering all over the parlour ha, maybe fastenex will cure her at dryoff?

What else did you test for in the dung? Crypto? Also acidosis could cause scouring.

Buford T. Justice XIX

blue5000 wrote: »

AFAIK johnes is hard to test for, sometimes they have false negatives. Rumen fluke, or does zanil work on that?

Zanil does Rumen Fluke as well as mature Liver Fluke, iirc.

It does tend to scour cattle getting it for a few days though.

kowtow

Who are the potential buyers of the coop shares and are you required to maintain a number to milk for example? Is the class of people able to buy the shares limited in some functional fashion or by the (arbitary) requirement that the board approve the transaction?

The line the revenue is attempting to follow is that of open market value... ie. That shares were given in lieu of cash for milk and were freely exchangeable by the recipient at a significant premium. My argument would be that there is not an open market for the shares (see above) and that they should be taxed as income only to the extent of the value of the milk they paid for. Any premium should be taxed as a capital gain when and if it is crystallised by a future sale.

Edit: if anyone is talking to their accountant on this it might be worth asking him to look at the taxation of what are known as scrip dividends... quite an unusual practice now but when a company pays a portion of the dividend in the form of additional shares. Certainly the practice in the UK at one time was that these are only taxed in disposal not when given to replace income but I have no idea of the Irish position and can't look it up easily while milking. A decent accountant or lawyer will see the parallel and the precedent.

whelan2

blue5000 wrote: »

AFAIK johnes is hard to test for, sometimes they have false negatives. Rumen fluke, or does zanil work on that?

we blood test everything over 2 years of age for johnes at tb test. You get the odd false positive. Timmaay what age is she?

mf240

A few shots of multi vitamin can sometimes cure a skuttery cow.

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

we blood test everything over 2 years of age for johnes at tb test. You get the odd false positive. Timmaay what age is she?

7th lactation. Other than she is due to calf early March I'd be letting her on.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

7th lactation. Other than she is due to calf early March I'd be letting her on.

She's nearly too old for johnes at that age

greysides

Timmaay wrote: »

Got a cow here who has very watery dung, typical fluke suspect, except she has not responded to the 4 or 5 doses of zanil over the year...

Were parasites checked in the sample or was it just for Johne's?

If she hasn't been wormed recently I'd be doing that. If no response in a few days I'd be considering redoing the Johne's faecal test.

Chronic Salmonellosis is also a potential culprit but you'd need to talk to your vet about that. Maybe get the dung checked for that too...?

alps

This revenue letter to Kerry farmers is like the Kaikoura earthquake, and the aftershocks may rumble on for ages through various other coops. It will not now go away....there may be lots to unearth....bonus shares, shares transferred with farms...lots and lots of difficulty.

And the industry continued its voyage of indeference and stupidity when it linked production to shares. ....linked production to a non agricultural asset...

But who were we mere farmers to warn about tax issues relating to shares....

pedigree 6

mf240 wrote: »

A few shots of multi vitamin can sometimes cure a skuttery cow.

Could well be a cobalt deficiency.

Thus, Co deficiency may cause illthrift, pining, weakness, scour and emaciation in lambs and calves and, sometimes in adults.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/2manual.htm

kowtow

alps wrote:

..linked production to a non agricultural asset...

So true. They just don't see it.. it's like all the discussion of mortgage limits and house prices. It's not supply and demand nor the cost of building... it's greed and fear of loss on a speculation. That's why they call it getting on the "housing ladder".

Who wouldnt want a foot on a ladder?

If houses were only something to live in we wouldn't have a crisis.

visatorro

Timmaay wrote: »

7th lactation. Other than she is due to calf early March I'd be letting her on.

Remember someone saying before that zanil was a low quality dose. I couldn't recommend another drench but maybe if you tried her with a pour on or injection just to mix up the medicine!!

Then again she's nearly ten, could just be old age!!

atlantic mist

alps wrote: »

This revenue letter to Kerry farmers is like the Kaikoura earthquake, and the aftershocks may rumble on for ages through various other coops. It will not now go away....there may be lots to unearth....bonus shares, shares transferred with farms...lots and lots of difficulty.

And the industry continued its voyage of indeference and stupidity when it linked production to shares. ....linked production to a non agricultural asset...

But who were we mere farmers to warn about tax issues relating to shares....

if all milk processors were transparent on milk price these issues wouldnt occur, just pay the best price and stop messing with schemes and shares, only one party generally gets burned. we get rebates on fertiliser and meal with glanbia, we account for this by deducting from purchase price how many lads put in full cost of meal/fertiliser and say nothing about coop rebates??

i had to buy 2000 shares for eligibility to coop bonus, no tax due this is not income, its a cost for me and its an asset in a grey markets so no open market value, ( i do think they are hugely over valued at the 5 euro mark) talks of more investments required to ensure processing for suppliers (even though they have really struggled to sell additional produce for last two years so more spin out on the way id imagine even though a flatter supply curve is what is required (lost algeria powder trade as couldnt supply all year round)

whelan2

Sent the last survivor of my ragwort poisoning purchasing ordeal to the factory the other day got 642 Euro for her straight from parlour

whelan2

Any recommendations for good dovea ai bulls?

blue5000

whelan2 wrote: »

Any recommendations for good dovea ai bulls?

MLJ;)