Dairy chit chat II

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Which article from the journal are we talking about now?;)

The journal is getting great publicity here now. #clickbait. edit: trumpstyle.

There is so much commentary here and on twitter you'd barely need to read the Journal at all these days.

I got half way through writing a letter to the editor the other day complaining about an article when I realized I hadn't even bought it that week.

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

The poor lad probably after being knee deep in crap for the last few decades spent €80k to have a happy life and people are begrudging him it. Whatever floats your boat.

Don't know about a farmer having a ''happy life'', but he'd be outa the Crap anyway

whelan2

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Which article from the journal are we talking about now?;)

The journal is getting great publicity here now. #clickbait. edit: trumpstyle.

Did any of ye read the problem page? The husband needs a toe in the hole

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

The poor lad probably after being knee deep in crap for the last few decades spent €80k to have a happy life and people are begrudging him it. Whatever floats your boat.

Lads would spend 40/50 grand on a jeep and after a few years it would be worthless.

Water John

I'd say Whelan, that might be the solution, most weeks, on that particular feature.

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

The husband needs a toe in the hole

The durty fecker

whelan2

mf240 wrote: »

Lads would spend 40/50 grand on a jeep and after a few years it would be worthless.

Or drink it away....at least he has something to look at and be happy with

Panjandrums

This post has been deleted.

kowtow

whelan2 wrote: »

Did any of ye read the problem page? The husband needs a toe in the hole

I can feel a new reality TV phenomenon coming on here.

Sort of a cross between "wife swap" and "diy sos".. in which farm husbands and wives swap homes for a fortnight or so solving problems which are obvious to all the rest of us ....

Think of the entertainment... a week of Whelan and there would be some poor sap limping around a beautifully power-washed yard counting the days... KG would be in for a fortnight and half the herd would be in MacDonalds for parlour transgressions, GTM would have the cows stocked two high and baling excess grass...

The day stan showed up they'd need a bigger milk tank.

& when Jay & Dawg drove out the gap at the end of their placement the cows would stampede out the gate after them, following the mixer wagons up the road.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Teagasc are having a discussion live on Facebook on Wednesday on Dairy labour requirements.

https://twitter.com/teagasc/status/891298548393938944

Timmaay

What sort of unsecure loan rates are an of yas getting? Looking at borrowing 25k over 3yrs for a job on the farm here, boi who my main farm account is with are offering me 6.7% which seems steep enough.

yosemitesam1

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/opinion/95265405/keith-woodford-dairying-the-pastureplus-way

Midfield9

Timmaay wrote: »

What sort of unsecure loan rates are an of yas getting? Looking at borrowing 25k over 3yrs for a job on the farm here, boi who my main farm account is with are offering me 6.7% which seems steep enough.

Milkflex 4.1 I think. Term has to be 8 years but you can pay it off as quick as you like. There is a setup cost of 1.25%

whelan2

What about your local credit union. 4.95% here used to be9.5%

Water John

Sam 1, don't think we'd have any consultant/researcher, willing to stand out from the crowd, like that, in Ireland.
He directly challenges a named researcher.

yewtree

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/opinion/95265405/keith-woodford-dairying-the-pastureplus-way

Its an interesting article and I read some of the support stuff at the bottom of it aswell (I am not that busy today), but the message is very similar to Teagasc. once you start wasting grass or using supplement to keep extra cows you will definitely lose money.
If you supplement and dont waste grass it will be profitable. The most profitable milk on any grass based farm is got from grass, should be about 4500 litres. After that milk produced from supplement can be profitable provided you know the tipping point where the cost of the milk outweighs the price received.

yosemitesam1

yewtree wrote: »

Its an interesting article and I read some of the support stuff at the bottom of it aswell (I am not that busy today), but the message is very similar to Teagasc. once you start wasting grass or using supplement to keep extra cows you will definitely lose money.
If you supplement and dont waste grass it will be profitable. The most profitable milk on any grass based farm is got from grass, should be about 4500 litres. After that milk produced from supplement can be profitable provided you know the tipping point where the cost of the milk outweighs the price received.

I suppose it depends on your accounting method, if you look at an extra 3000 litres. Say it takes an extra tonne of meal to get that, assuming a fertile cow and good management those extra litres would be costing less than 10c/l as sheds,land etc are really a cost on the first 4500l.
But obviously that's assuming that it will be possible to give the extra attention that won't suit everyone.

yosemitesam1

Water John wrote: »

Sam 1, don't think we'd have any consultant/researcher, willing to stand out from the crowd, like that, in Ireland.
He directly challenges a named researcher.

The whole research system worldwide is just a bit of a disaster. There's a lack of accountability and a hierarchy that has to be respected if any sort of career progression is to happen. Add to that the problem of people getting fancy qualifications and the arrogance that tends to come with their few letters, all before they are ever humbled by the sheer complexity of what they're trying to understand.
Have emailed a few teagasc lads pointing out how research may have been flawed or pointing out stuff that was plain wrong. Have yet to receive any acknowledgment back as they've no accountability...

Timmaay

Thanks whelan/midfield, both them options definitely worth a look. I'm still amazed at how easy the boi process was, filled out an online form Fri, phone call this morning, approval text 10mins later! A secure loan would be around 5%, but legal for security would cost about 3k, not worth it in this case. Only thing I'd have against the CU, last loan I had with them they wanted 1/3 of the loan amount held in savings, that's another 8k I would need sitting in the CU. I'll still check them out though.

yewtree

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The whole research system worldwide is just a bit of a disaster. There's a lack of accountability and a hierarchy that has to be respected if any sort of career progression is to happen. Add to that the problem of people getting fancy qualifications and the arrogance that tends to come with their few letters, all before they are ever humbled by the sheer complexity of what they're trying to understand.
Have emailed a few teagasc lads pointing out how research may have been flawed or pointing out stuff that was plain wrong. Have yet to receive any acknowledgment back as they've no accountability...

I am not sure about that, i think the principles in teagasc are pretty sound, they do a huge amount of research its up to us as farmers to decide what suits our farm, they have no commercial angle.
Have always found Teagasc lads fairly easy to get on with and debate things with, never got any sense they had no accountability.
Are you involved with teagasc through discussion groups/go to their events?

rangler1

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The whole research system worldwide is just a bit of a disaster. There's a lack of accountability and a hierarchy that has to be respected if any sort of career progression is to happen. Add to that the problem of people getting fancy qualifications and the arrogance that tends to come with their few letters, all before they are ever humbled by the sheer complexity of what they're trying to understand.
Have emailed a few teagasc lads pointing out how research may have been flawed or pointing out stuff that was plain wrong. Have yet to receive any acknowledgment back as they've no accountability...

Why would they reconsider it, they would have books of evidence and trials to back up their research, I see it on the sheep side, years of trials even out on ordinary farms to reach a conclusion.....what would you suggest?...that they start again on the basis of one email from ?????

yosemitesam1

yewtree wrote: »

I am not sure about that, i think the principles in teagasc are pretty sound, they do a huge amount of research its up to us as farmers to decide what suits our farm, they have no commercial angle.
Have always found Teagasc lads fairly easy to get on with and debate things with, never got any sense they had no accountability.
Are you involved with teagasc through discussion groups/go to their events?

It's the real fundamental issues about soil health, sustainability etc that I've my issues with teagasc and they don't reply to any emails questioning these issues as it puts so much of what they've been preaching for years into question. That is where the lack of awareness about the world around them is such a big problem. The majority of them did an age or science degree in Ireland in the last 40 years, haven't done much if any work outside of Ireland and so know nothing apart from maximising the amount of product produced for a protected market with no consideration given to the problems the narrow focus creates

We'd have nothing to do with teagasc here as they don't have anything to offer the direction our farm is going in. Maybe they will one day though...

yewtree

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It's the real fundamental issues about soil health, sustainability etc that I've my issues with teagasc and they don't reply to any emails questioning these issues as it puts so much of what they've been preaching for years into question. That is where the lack of awareness about the world around them is such a big problem. The majority of them did an age or science degree in Ireland in the last 40 years, haven't done much if any work outside of Ireland and so know nothing apart from maximising the amount of product produced for a protected market with no consideration given to the problems the narrow focus creates

We'd have nothing to do with teagasc here as they don't have anything to offer the direction our farm is going in. Maybe they will one day though...

I cant see how you can have an informed view of them if you have no involvment with them. In fairness you would have no clue of their work expierence, seems unlikely you have reviewed everyones CV in moorepark.
They have faults like any organisation and you dont have to take everything they say as gospel, but on the whole they do a lot of good.

Water John

Well, over time, one can measure the good advice of the time in hindsight. Lots of good pointers, cow to the acre, paddock grazing, good roadways, etc. I'm reaching back a good few years. But we also had, over nitrification, everybody bailing acid onto grass, not wilting, wintering cows on unsheltered pads or open cubicles, open sided milking parlours.

What I most disagree with however, is the single solution. One size fits all. It's makes it easy to explain and treats the recipients as simpletons. Iv'e seen guys, cull their best cow because she didn't go back in calf within the 6 week window.
The discussion as to whether to cut bales and buffer on the shoulders, or ZG, as in another thread, started by Kerry Cow is good.
That is one of the key purposes of research, start and continue the discussion, argument. It should not be about being a true disciple or a heretic.

jaymla627

yewtree wrote: »

Its an interesting article and I read some of the support stuff at the bottom of it aswell (I am not that busy today), but the message is very similar to Teagasc. once you start wasting grass or using supplement to keep extra cows you will definitely lose money.
If you supplement and dont waste grass it will be profitable. The most profitable milk on any grass based farm is got from grass, should be about 4500 litres. After that milk produced from supplement can be profitable provided you know the tipping point where the cost of the milk outweighs the price received.

In new Zealand where alot of guys haven't inherited their farms and are paying back huge loans how cheap is grass when this is factored, say a 30 year mortgage on a farm bought back their when land prices had gone sky-high at say 30,000 euro a hectare tag on interest on the loan at another 20,000 euro over its lifetime, so essentially 50 grand our 1600 euro a year capital repayments...
Now take a rockstar farmer out their who is utilizing 16ton/ha year in year out he's got costs of 10 cent a kilo of dm in repayments alone now remind me again how grass is a cheap feed, it is if you inherit the land if you go out and buy it its comparable to buying in your feed

Timmaay

Midfield9 wrote: »

Milkflex 4.1 I think. Term has to be 8 years but you can pay it off as quick as you like. There is a setup cost of 1.25%

Just reading through the T&Cs, hell of alot of effort for 25k that I will hopefully pay back reasonably fast, workshops, 3yrs accounts, MSAs etc. Think I'll go see will any of the other banks offer me unsecure money at a better rate.

yewtree

jaymla627 wrote: »

In new Zealand where alot of guys haven't inherited their farms and are paying back huge loans how cheap is grass when this is factored, say a 30 year mortgage on a farm bought back their when land prices had gone sky-high at say 30,000 euro a hectare tag on interest on the loan at another 20,000 euro over its lifetime, so essentially 50 grand our 1600 euro a year capital repayments...
Now take a rockstar farmer out their who is utilizing 16ton/ha year in year out he's got costs of 10 cent a kilo of dm in repayments alone now remind me again how grass is a cheap feed, it is if you inherit the land if you go out and buy it its comparable to buying in your feed

Thats a different argument and there is a valid point in it, I am talking about not wasting grass by substituting with expensive supplements. The more grass wasted the higher the cost of grass, as you are not diluting the costs associated with growing grass.
If i pay €10,000 acre for ground i need to max the amount of grass utilized off it to make it pay for itself. If i introduce supplements when i have sufficient grass i will reduce the amount of grass i use and also increase my feed costs that is a sure fire way to go broke.

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

Just reading through the T&Cs, hell of alot of effort for 25k that I will hopefully pay back reasonably fast, workshops, 3yrs accounts, MSAs etc. Think I'll go see will any of the other banks offer me unsecure money at a better rate.

As my accountant said what goes on between you and the bank is your own business leave the coop out of it

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

Just reading through the T&Cs, hell of alot of effort for 25k that I will hopefully pay back reasonably fast, workshops, 3yrs accounts, MSAs etc. Think I'll go see will any of the other banks offer me unsecure money at a better rate.

What would the timeframe be between applying and drawing the loan down?

jaymla627

yewtree wrote: »

Thats a different argument and there is a valid point in it, I am talking about not wasting grass by substituting with expensive supplements. The more grass wasted the higher the cost of grass, as you are not diluting the costs associated with growing grass.
If i pay €10,000 acre for ground i need to max the amount of grass utilized off it to make it pay for itself. If i introduce supplements when i have sufficient grass i will reduce the amount of grass i use and also increase my feed costs that is a sure fire way to go broke.

Theirs a tipping point though if you adopt the approach of 'not wasting grass' your cows are going to suffer and yields will be back, and then the bank balance takes a hit, you simply cant make cows clean out paddocks and nail residuals in ever paddock ever grazing everytime, it doesn't matter how good a grassland manager you are the weather and extremes of either drought conditions/wet weather will put pay to your plans, when you think about as the season progress on highly stocked farms the sheer area of ground taken up with dung pats alone is huge but by the logic of Dr roache cows should happily clean these paddocks out its literally "bull****"