Dairy chit chat II

yewtree

jaymla627 wrote: »

Theirs a tipping point though if you adopt the approach of 'not wasting grass' your cows are going to suffer and yields will be back, and then the bank balance takes a hit, you simply cant make cows clean out paddocks and nail residuals in ever paddock ever grazing everytime, it doesn't matter how good a grassland manager you are the weather and extremes of either drought conditions/wet weather will put pay to your plans, when you think about as the season progress on highly stocked farms the sheer area of ground taken up with dung pats alone is huge but by the logic of Dr roache cows should happily clean these paddocks out its literally "bull****"

Nobody uses all the grass they grow but its achievable to use 85% of it, its the approach we take. If I am stocked at 2.5 cows/ha and give my cows 5kg concentrate all summer, and my solution to heavy cows is to top are every grazing. I will waste a lot of grass and lose a lot of money because as you have said already most of the costs of growing grass are fixed whether i use 6 tonne/ha or 12 tonne/ha.
Maximizing the amount of grass we use has nothing to do with starving cows, or poor production/cow. Cows that graze cleanly have a better quality feed the next time around and of course there will have to be times when paddocks have to be cut.

Mooooo

Anyone outwintering ever see badgers st the crop during grazing?

visatorro

17.9 litres, 3.77 fat, 3.56 prot, scc 156. Two kg of 14% hi energy. Grassland management middling at best!

Just under half the herd to be dried off in next week. Trying to push OAD for the reminder for a couple of months, not sure I'll win the row!

pedigree 6

27.9 litres at Bf 3.54, Pr 3.32.
Lactose 5.04, Scc 118.
M.U 25, solids per cow 1.97.
4kgs of 14% meal.

Cows are gone back a bit in todays collection on the only field that got no lime last autumn even though the grass looks better than other fields.
The above was from 2 days ago and results to match.

blackdog1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

27.9 litres at Bf 3.54, Pr 3.32.
Lactose 5.04, Scc 118.
M.U 25, solids per cow 1.97.
4kgs of 14% meal.

Cows are gone back a bit in todays collection on the only field that got no lime last autumn even though the grass looks better than other fields.
The above was from 2 days ago and results to match.

I've 3 days of 2nd cut after grass left and cows are pumping it. 26.5 litres 3.82 Bf and 3.62 P 3-4 kg of 14 % scc 114k. I hate drying cows at this time of the year..... can see them drop 2 litres a cow when that grass is finished. on another sour point another case of Strep....same cow different quarter, think she'll be gone in 40 days when the autumn calving heifers come in.

Buford T. Justice XIX

blackdog1 wrote: »

I've 3 days of 2nd cut after grass left and cows are pumping it. 26.5 litres 3.82 Bf and 3.62 P 3-4 kg of 14 % scc 114k. I hate drying cows at this time of the year..... can see them drop 2 litres a cow when that grass is finished. on another sour point another case of Strep....same cow different quarter, think she'll be gone in 40 days when the autumn calving heifers come in.

I was looking at my mastitis cases last night. I went 10 weeks with 5 cases and two of those were being treated for high SCCs.

In the two weeks since the herd test I've had 6 cases and I think there is another one coming on this evening.:(

Mooooo

Had 5 cases since here tests in last month as well. 2 good cows in calf for spring and I dunno what to do with em. At this stage I'll give them a long dry period and if they calves down with issues give an the gate. Of the 20 milking cows down in the test only one was a high scc and haven't seen any of em bulling in the last month either ffs

blackdog1

Mooooo wrote:

Had 5 cases since here tests in last month as well. 2 good cows in calf for spring and I dunno what to do with em. At this stage I'll give them a long dry period and if they calves down with issues give an the gate. Of the 20 milking cows down in the test only one was a high scc and haven't seen any of em bulling in the last month either ffs

I'm using tylosin,terrexine and an anti inflammatory if swollen. Works well. 1 cow recurred on me but she has a weak heart so I'd say her immune system isn't great. I like to hit them hard first 24 hrs. Treated cows are getting back down to 64k sccs

kowtow

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It's the real fundamental issues about soil health, sustainability etc that I've my issues with teagasc and they don't reply to any emails questioning these issues as it puts so much of what they've been preaching for years into question.

That's very true and a problem with almost all large scale research - everyone has an ego, and nobody likes to "discover" something which contradicts that which they have already discovered. The desire to be seen to be "right" is very strong, stronger than the desire to make the right choice at a particular moment. Eventually a bias creeps in where people, and the organisations made of them, have a strong tendency to talk their own book first and foremost. Minds and opinions do change, but it often takes longer than it might otherwise have done. On the plus side this leads to a certain stability and without it research might lack a bit of depth and conviction.

Curiously one of the only places where that is not the case is financial markets - no trader lasts very long if they aren't ready to change their mind completely at a moments notice and act on it. We used to place the highest value on research which directly contradicted what we had taken as Gospel a few hours ago, used to love the words "hang on, I think I'm wrong about ...." - the first loss is always the cheapest so it pays to take it quickly.

Contrast that with the state of medical / nutritional research... among all the endless radio programmes you hear about obesity or diets how many times have you heard a nutritionist say "now it turns out we were dangerously wrong when we said margarine was the way forward. It was nonsense. And right now we think.... xyz... but the truth is we just don't know"

There is a dangerous lack of humility in the scientific / research community IMO.

kowtow

jaymla627 wrote: »

Theirs a tipping point though if you adopt the approach of 'not wasting grass' your cows are going to suffer and yields will be back, and then the bank balance takes a hit, you simply cant make cows clean out paddocks and nail residuals in ever paddock ever grazing everytime, it doesn't matter how good a grassland manager you are the weather and extremes of either drought conditions/wet weather will put pay to your plans, when you think about as the season progress on highly stocked farms the sheer area of ground taken up with dung pats alone is huge but by the logic of Dr roache cows should happily clean these paddocks out its literally "bull****"

If you narrow it down to an economic question, the correct one is whether the cow is a cheaper mower than the mower, and whether wasting a bit of grass is cheaper than either of them.

On the face of it, of course, she is, but only if you ignore a certain loss of potential production, particularly for certain high input cows. You can pull a topping mower behind a Porsche, but you might not be getting the best from it - it all depends whether you can use it to better effect elsewhere.

If capital cost was no issue I dare say alternating day and night paddocks with zero grazing in the cycle would come near to an optimum combination of utilization and variable cost? The capex would be horrendous though for a really friction free system....

Water John

Indeed Kowtow, If I was drawing outfarm grass with a ZG, I would generally have the cows in at night and let them off out by day.
ZG mowed in the afternoon/evening.
Option of keeping them in if there is bad weather forecast for the following day.

mf240

Having a little bit too much grass is probably better than having a little bit of a shortage. With the variables in weather from year to year maybe we should error on the side of caution. So depending on your mindset when you have surplus grass then the glass is either nearly full or slightly empty.

Although teagasc would probably say the glass is too big

visatorro

Got sensitivity done on the bulk tank sample. Vet said to keep using ceprevan, 29 euro.

whelan2

visatorro wrote: »

Got sensitivity done on the bulk tank sample. Vet said to keep using ceprevan, 29 euro.

I got it done on tank and 4 cows. Change from ubro red to noroclox dc and from tetra delta to synulox lc

GrasstoMilk

visatorro wrote: »

Got sensitivity done on the bulk tank sample. Vet said to keep using ceprevan, 29 euro.

It doesn't work on bulk tank. You're supposed to take it from cows with high scc and see what big is causing the scc

whelan2

visatorro wrote: »

Got sensitivity done on the bulk tank sample. Vet said to keep using ceprevan, 29 euro.

Was it €29 for the test? Think it was around €6 each here

jaymla627

kowtow wrote: »

If you narrow it down to an economic question, the correct one is whether the cow is a cheaper mower than the mower, and whether wasting a bit of grass is cheaper than either of them.

On the face of it, of course, she is, but only if you ignore a certain loss of potential production, particularly for certain high input cows. You can pull a topping mower behind a Porsche, but you might not be getting the best from it - it all depends whether you can use it to better effect elsewhere.

If capital cost was no issue I dare say alternating day and night paddocks with zero grazing in the cycle would come near to an optimum combination of utilization and variable cost? The capex would be horrendous though for a really friction free system....

I'd be more inclined to go the housed at night route on high quality wraps with some tmr mixed in and out during the day on grass, if I can get current rented ground on a long-term lease ill stock the milking platform at 4.5 cows/ha and house them at night, main reason for silage over zg grass would be to negate the bf crash that I battle every year till Sept, with bales silage in the diet regularly my bf runs at 3.85 when its pulled out it drops to 3.5

Water John

Jay, your giving a very good logic as to why to use wraps. I can see the option is quite viable. I presume you use contractor to bale?
The stronger grass in the bale keeping up the BF. Ground will need regular reseeding if not grazed by cow or zero though.

kowtow

mf240 wrote: »

Although teagasc would probably say the glass is too big

They'd say you have the wrong glass, and everyone must drink from two of the right ones by 2025. You'll be needing a second pair of lips as well, so.

kowtow

jaymla627 wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to go the housed at night route on high quality wraps with some tmr mixed in and out during the day on grass, if I can get current rented ground on a long-term lease ill stock the milking platform at 4.5 cows/ha and house them at night, main reason for silage over zg grass would be to negate the bf crash that I battle every year till Sept, with bales silage in the diet regularly my bf runs at 3.85 when its pulled out it drops to 3.5

Is that 3.5 with zg at the moment?

So the 4.5 / ha would guarantee good clean outs (presumably) and the wraps at night would make up for any deficit during the day?

Mooooo

kowtow wrote: »

Is that 3.5 with zg at the moment?

So the 4.5 / ha would guarantee good clean outs (presumably) and the wraps at night would make up for any deficit during the day?

Stock the cows at that with ground closed here from April till August roughly and you may still end up taking bales and get grass steamy. Out full-time. Silage ground and silage come back in then for autumn and spring but also feed 1.5 tonne meal

kowtow

Mooooo wrote: »

Stock the cows at that with ground closed here from April till August roughly and you may still end up taking bales and get grass steamy. Out full-time. Silage ground and silage come back in then for autumn and spring but also feed 1.5 tonne meal

I was thinking that, we had cows tightened up to about that and the grass still got away from them in June - far enough that, as we didn't top it in time, we're paying for it in the feed passage now.

jaymla627

kowtow wrote: »

Is that 3.5 with zg at the moment?

So the 4.5 / ha would guarantee good clean outs (presumably) and the wraps at night would make up for any deficit during the day?

No just grazed grass, have started putting in 1.5kgs of silage a day the past week solids have gone from 3.5 bf 3.35 pr to 3.75bf 3.43pr grass quality hasn't changed cows on lovely 1300-1400kg covers and no drop in production with cows still at 29.5 litres, have seen it throughout the year whenever silage goes on bf increases and pr/litres hold, even messed around with nis pellets for 6 weeks and bf didn't improve but silage worked brilliantly

kowtow

jaymla627 wrote: »

No just grazed grass, have started putting in 1.5kgs of silage a day the past week solids have gone from 3.5 bf 3.35 pr to 3.75bf 3.43pr grass quality hasn't changed cows on lovely 1300-1400kg covers and no drop in production with cows still at 29.5 litres, have seen it throughout the year whenever silage goes on bf increases and pr/litres hold, even messed around with nis pellets for 6 weeks and bf didn't improve but silage worked brilliantly

Is the silage surplus bales / strong paddock stuff?

jaymla627

kowtow wrote: »

Is the silage surplus bales / strong paddock stuff?

No have gone away from feeding paddock wraps when cows are at peak, the feed value isn't in them, take 3/4 cuts here and aim to have 1 st cut done by 8 th of may with subsequent cuts every 35-40 days depending on weather that's the milkers silage....

Water John

Heard of a guy complaining that BF went down with ZG. Maybe its as Jay says, it was up when he was feeding silage buffer. the other way round.

visatorro

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

It doesn't work on bulk tank. You're supposed to take it from cows with high scc and see what big is causing the scc

That's true. But Iv no jars to do that. I'd have to draw them individually. I only had two case's all year so was happy enough. He said if they weren't immune to what I was using and wasn't having major problems to keep using what I was using. He's the guy with the papers on the wall!!

visatorro

whelan2 wrote: »

Was it €29 for the test? Think it was around €6 each here

Yeah one sample, plus P+P. Maybe that's a minimum charge. Not actually sure where it went

blackdog1

Well that's me on holiday mode now.. wholecrop pitted, straw in and 2 cuts of silage in the pit. No cows calving for 3 weeks.

stanflt

Had my bord bia audit yesterday- lovely man and very easy to talk to- made the process very easy

Hard to believe it was 18 months since the last one

Think Glanbia are fining 5 cpl from sept for none audited farms