Dairy chit chat II

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

He thought the cows where doing 22 litres as well, thought way to rosy a picture was painted about that farms situation going forward with the cows basically dried off coming into August at 16 litres a cow where was he going to turn the cash to meet his bills coming into next spring, was a bit rich on young's part reckoning because he was taking up grass measuring and was going to cut his meal bill in half everything would be fine going forward

Ye I wanted to see what ye thought before I commented on that. I dont believe in this day and age that lads dont have an idea of what is owed. Surely he would have gotten a bill for the ai of 6000 before it was deducted. His wife must be a saint 😇

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

Ye I wanted to see what ye thought before I commented on that. I dont believe in this day and age that lads dont have an idea of what is owed. Surely he would have gotten a bill for the ai of 6000 before it was deducted. His wife must be a saint ��

Its a cumulative affect I reckon when you go increasing numbers it eats cash, if you double numbers your realistically doubling your ai/vet/feed/contracting costs along with carrying young stock to is what I find kills cashflow in particular have 90 heifers here between in calf /maidens and realistically this means that's 50 odd grand been used up to carry them for the year....
Then if you turn around and start doing capital expenditure out of cashflow you can tally up some pretty big bills quickly enough, unless your keeping on top of things and tallying them up each month you will find yourself in a hole pretty quickly....

whelan2

Will be interesting to see the money mentor's reply next week

K.G.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Its a cumulative affect I reckon when you go increasing numbers it eats cash, if you double numbers your realistically doubling your ai/vet/feed/contracting costs along with carrying young stock to is what I find kills cashflow in particular have 90 heifers here between in calf /maidens and realistically this means that's 50 odd grand been used up to carry them for the year....
Then if you turn around and start doing capital expenditure out of cashflow you can tally up some pretty big bills quickly enough, unless your keeping on top of things and tallying them up each month you will find yourself in a hole pretty quickly....

Couldnt agree more.the cost most guys dont take into account when expanding is the cost of the stock.the common refrain is i had them anyway or its only a few more. I had an element of this las t year when we were doing up the tax and he came back to me with the tax figure and ithought itvwas more than it should be but whay i hadnt allowed for was the increase instock on hands adding to the profit figure.also from my involvement in the coop i see the secret erosion of wealth as fellas who have been increasing their debt level with businesses they are dealing with in order to maintain their lifestyle despite the fact that the fact they are not generating enough profit from the
farm.btw i use word lifestyle but im not suggesting anything flash.while i dont want to get into a debate about teagsc there is a reason why they are pushing the lower cost/low investement model.if you are not watching what you spend its very easy to start eroding the margin in farming

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

Ye I wanted to see what ye thought before I commented on that. I dont believe in this day and age that lads dont have an idea of what is owed. Surely he would have gotten a bill for the ai of 6000 before it was deducted. His wife must be a saint ��

Some people bury their head in the sand and can't handle the pressure.....ignore it and it'll go away type of thing. A lot of dairy farmers got a bye in life since the eighties with the quota etc especially if they didn't expand since they took over from the parents, now they think bigger is better and sure milk'll pay for everything like it always did.
Wouldn't be surprised if all his debt s aren't revealed even yet

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

Ye I wanted to see what ye thought before I commented on that. I dont believe in this day and age that lads dont have an idea of what is owed. Surely he would have gotten a bill for the ai of 6000 before it was deducted. His wife must be a saint ��

6k for a 100 cow herd is a pretty big figure. That's 60euro a cow.

Unless he is getting submission rates of 90% and all cows and heifers being AIed, that's a pretty big figure right there. I would be looking a good bit closer at that for a start.

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

Its a cumulative affect I reckon when you go increasing numbers it eats cash, if you double numbers your realistically doubling your ai/vet/feed/contracting costs along with carrying young stock to is what I find kills cashflow in particular have 90 heifers here between in calf /maidens and realistically this means that's 50 odd grand been used up to carry them for the year....
Then if you turn around and start doing capital expenditure out of cashflow you can tally up some pretty big bills quickly enough, unless your keeping on top of things and tallying them up each month you will find yourself in a hole pretty quickly....

I know you have been burnt with bought in stock before ha, but it's another reason I like buying in calf heifers, you only need to stomach up the 1200/1400e 2months before she calfs, and this is a very clear and obvious cash cost you spend ha, you hopefully get a 200e calf straight away, and money in the milk tank. Rather than 2years of it locked up in the stock which in my case would be displacing ground that could be otherwise milked off.

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

I know you have been burnt with bought in stock before ha, but it's another reason I like buying in calf heifers, you only need to stomach up the 1200/1400e 2months before she calfs, and this is a very clear and obvious cash cost you spend ha, you hopefully get a 200e calf straight away, and money in the milk tank. Rather than 2years of it locked up in the stock which in my case would be displacing ground that could be otherwise milked off.

Depends on your situation, have maxed out my stock relief here while building numbers and have paid zero tax because of it, really starting to see a serious improvement in stock coming through too still have Feb calved heifers giving 28 plus litres and a few smashers still over the 30 you wont pick them up for 1200-1400 euro, in a commercial herd not pushing production it has its merits alright

pedigree 6

whelan2 wrote: »

Ye I wanted to see what ye thought before I commented on that. I dont believe in this day and age that lads dont have an idea of what is owed. Surely he would have gotten a bill for the ai of 6000 before it was deducted. His wife must be a saint 😇

I didn't read the article yet but from reading bufords post about some farmers having difficulty with calibration and timmaays post about that farmer with 17 cows spending 80k on a shed and kg's post about more farmers living on debt, I think some farmers can't or have no concept of managing figures.

I'd say if you gave some farmers a choice whether to work out what 47% of 1647 is or spread dung. Most would spread dung.

whelan2

He also assumed that the co-op had swiped most of his milk cheque, so there must be a substantial debt there too.

The part time boy

What do ye guys give after grass ?

I only cut sillage 3 weeks and after grass is poor enough .

I give the grazing platform a bag after each grazing . I gave sillage ground a bag as well after the sillage 2 weeks ago .

Was one bag not enough ?

It is index 4 but it's low on lime ( job for autumn )

Ps. Back in my milking days sillage was not in grazing platform for cows so there was no great rush getting after grass back

Buford T. Justice XIX

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I didn't read the article yet but from reading bufords post about some farmers having difficulty with calibration and timmaays post about that farmer with 17 cows spending 80k on a shed and kg's post about more farmers living on debt, I think some farmers can't or have no concept of managing figures.

I'd say if you gave some farmers a choice whether to work out what 47% of 1647 is or spread dung. Most would spread dung.

On that 80k spend for 17 cows, a lot of the thinking about that would depend on what the limiting factor is on the farm. There was no mention about what older facilities were on the farm and how long was spent every day in feeding and herding the stock over winter.

I had a similar choice starting off with cattle being outwintered mostly on silage and beet tops and only brought in for calving. The money spent on housing since then is a bit eye-watering, tbh, but there is no way I would have been able to continue unless that money was spent.

The figures are big alright but maybe the payback in terms of time for work/family is worth it for them and needed if no other facilities were there. Tbh, I reckon a lot of us will be facing into increasing storage capacities again after this round of negotiations on Nitrates is finished.

Mooooo

The part time boy wrote: »

What do ye guys give after grass ?

I only cut sillage 3 weeks and after grass is poor enough .

I give the grazing platform a bag after each grazing . I gave sillage ground a bag as well after the sillage 2 weeks ago .

Was one bag not enough ?

It is index 4 but it's low on lime ( job for autumn )

Ps. Back in my milking days sillage was not in grazing platform for cows so there was no great rush getting after grass back

Index 4 for what? Silage likely taken a bit of k so if it didn't get slurry would go with 2 by 18.6.12. Is it old grass?

The part time boy

Index 4 for p and k .

Was I too mean with one bag ?

pedigree 6

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On that 80k spend for 17 cows, a lot of the thinking about that would depend on what the limiting factor is on the farm. There was no mention about what older facilities were on the farm and how long was spent every day in feeding and herding the stock over winter.

I had a similar choice starting off with cattle being outwintered mostly on silage and beet tops and only brought in for calving. The money spent on housing since then is a bit eye-watering, tbh, but there is no way I would have been able to continue unless that money was spent.

The figures are big alright but maybe the payback in terms of time for work/family is worth it for them and needed if no other facilities were there. Tbh, I reckon a lot of us will be facing into increasing storage capacities again after this round of negotiations on Nitrates is finished.

What would the equivalent type of shed cost if you went with straw bedding?.. 4k?

Don't forget the journal is a commercial newspaper and is sponsored by the IFBA and it's the IFBA who provide a different shed/project story for the paper every week.

Shock and awe...

mahoney_j

pedigree 6 wrote: »

What would the equivalent type of shed cost if you went with straw bedding?.. 4k?

Don't forget the journal is a commercial newspaper and is sponsored by the IFBA and it's the IFBA who provide a different shed/project story for the paper every week.

Shock and awe...

Straw is dear and scarce and only going to get worse over next few years as more and more stubble gets planted to grass or converted to dairy

pedigree 6

mahoney_j wrote: »

Straw is dear and scarce and only going to get worse over next few years as more and more stubble gets planted to grass or converted to dairy

So is concrete and steel and the IFA IFBA.

rangler1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

What would the equivalent type of shed cost if you went with straw bedding?.. 4k?

Don't forget the journal is a commercial newspaper and is sponsored by the IFBA and it's the IFBA who provide a different shed/project story for the paper every week.

Shock and awe...

jasus, you should be posting in the conspiracy forum, the days of the hens in the kitchen are gone so at least some ones showing us what's available.
Do you want farmers dragging to muck and shi... for ever.
The stands at the tullamore farm open day paid 2000 each does that mean that farmers journal now leads farmers by the nose to deal with these people

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I'd say if you gave some farmers a choice whether to work out what 47% of 1647 is or spread dung. Most would spread dung.

I can do both at the same time!

They need to expand these bloody Teagasc awards.

pedigree 6

rangler1 wrote: »

jasus, you should be posting in the conspiracy forum, the days of the hens in the kitchen are gone so at least some ones showing us what's available.
Do you want farmers dragging to muck and shi... for ever.
The stands at the tullamore farm open day paid 2000 each does that mean that farmers journal now leads farmers by the nose to deal with these people

Who got the 2k x x no of stands?

You're retired now aren't you?

You'll nearly be starting another investigation into gravy trains with posts like that.

Water John

Transparency is the issue. If the IFJ has ties/arrangments with any commercial bodies, it needs to be out their clearly.
Same if any business funds a research piece, it needs to be clearly identified.

If the man is keeping 20 sucklers, he is throwing them, a bale a day, or more likely, putting out 5 bales every four days. That's the winter workload.

rangler1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Who got the 2k x x no of stands?

You're retired now aren't you?

You'll nearly be starting another investigation into gravy trains with posts like that.

That's just business in case you didn't recognise it, I reckoned it probably paid for the day...at least the farmers got in free

Mooooo

The part time boy wrote: »

Index 4 for p and k .

Was I too mean with one bag ?

30 units of n is what I put out that would be after slurry on afterwards anyway. Rain only rely came here the last week so perhaps it's the same with you just need a bit of time for moisture to kick on

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

I can do both at the same time!

They need to expand these bloody Teagasc awards.

That's multitasking, kowtow, men can't multitask:P

The part time boy

Mooooo wrote: »

The part time boy wrote: »

Index 4 for p and k .

Was I too mean with one bag ?

30 units of n is what I put out that would be after slurry on afterwards anyway. Rain only rely came here the last week so perhaps it's the same with you just need a bit of time for moisture to kick on

Ya rain only came here a Week ago too. Cause grass is tight I watching it like a boiling kettle .

Fecking feeding sillage at the moment very tight . But I way over stocked . Must move on some

rangler1

Water John wrote: »

Transparency is the issue. If the IFJ has ties/arrangments with any commercial bodies, it needs to be out their clearly.
Same if any business funds a research piece, it needs to be clearly identified.

If the man is keeping 20 sucklers, he is throwing them, a bale a day, or more likely, putting out 5 bales every four days. That's the winter workload.

And I thought it was the business of the Press to sell space in their paper.....silly me

Water John

Well Rangler, I'd like to think any way, that it's, 'fearlessly on the farmers side'.

whelan2

The poor lad probably after being knee deep in crap for the last few decades spent €80k to have a happy life and people are begrudging him it. Whatever floats your boat.

rangler1

Water John wrote: »

Well Rangler, I'd like to think any way, that it's, 'fearlessly on the farmers side'.

Ah jasus john don't go all naive on me now

pedigree 6

whelan2 wrote: »

The poor lad probably after being knee deep in crap for the last few decades spent €80k to have a happy life and people are begrudging him it. Whatever floats your boat.

Which article from the journal are we talking about now?;)

The journal is getting great publicity here now. #clickbait. edit: trumpstyle.