Reforms to Free Travel Scheme

Sam Russell

newacc2015 wrote: »

I wonder would it be possible for the various arms of CIE to refuse taking the free travel pass? I know it would be very political and unwelcome. But the fact is the travel pass in eating into revenues. I know tons of people who would love to take the train, but hate paying €40 at the station to stand for 3 hours as the train is full of free travel pass OAPs. So they pay €15 for a BE ticket.

If DB refused to take travel passes over lack of revenue and instead made OAPs pay fares, it would probably be better off financially. Plus it would be dealing with overcrowding at peak times.

The 747 does not take FTP.

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Limit the usage and distances of travel.

If you can travel to the airport on one you can surely pay for the journey to the airport.

The 747 does not take FTP plus some Aircoach ones.

Emme wrote: »

The same applies for using the train to do your Christmas shopping. If you can afford to go Christmas shopping on the train you can afford to pay for a ticket. Many regular commuters are so strapped for cash after mortgage, bills, annual train ticket, parking at the station etc. they can't afford Christmas.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yeah, yeah we've heard it all before, just get rid of free travel for OAP's and Irish Rail will be an overnight success. How about just tweaking the free travel scheme a bit such as charging a flat couple of Euros per journey and see how that pans out?

The FTP has non-financial benefits for OAPs in that it gets them socialising and that cuts down on other, more expensive, services that would be needed. The FTP allows travel when the driving licence is removed from them due to age. At 70 years of age, the driving licence is renewed after a full medical including eyesight test, for three years. At 80 years of age, the licence is renewed each year, again after full medical. Any medical condition such as stroke, dementia etc. etc puts the OAP off the road so why not allow a FTP to keep them mobile and part of society.

It is not all about money, but money for OAP is important because there is little upside financially if you are on a pension but looking at the charges for nursing homes puts the frighteners on them. My neighbour is in his late eighties and is on a very good pension but is terrified of going into a nursing home as his pension would not cover it or even go close. He lost his medical card when they changed the rules. He has given up driving some years ago and has to use taxis to get to hospital and doctor appointments as he is not mobile enough to go by PT.

Having said that, it is a valid argument that there are too many FTPs in circulation.

Bray Head

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

2396 Deserted Wives

that's a pretty random one to get free travel...

It's a statistical artifact.
This scheme was closed to new entrants a long time ago and it's lone parents schemes instead.
I suspect the vast majority of these women are now over 65 but have not been moved over to the pensioners scheme. It would presumably cost something but would provide no benefit.

foggy_lad

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yeah, yeah we've heard it all before, just get rid of free travel for OAP's and Irish Rail will be an overnight success. How about just tweaking the free travel scheme a bit such as charging a flat couple of Euros per journey and see how that pans out?

The older voters would never go for it and it would have to be all or nothing as people do not all live in the same place and many would have to pay much more per journey depending on where they live.

Would there be any exceptions? Blind people? Mentally handicapped people? Wheelchair users(considering the poor state of wheelchair access on buses and many train services)?

Emme

foggy_lad wrote: »

The older voters would never go for it and it would have to be all or nothing as people do not all live in the same place and many would have to pay much more per journey depending on where they live.

Of course the older voters would never go for it. They also have the time and the means to protest unlike those of us who have to work. I don't begrudge them their FTPs but I think with the current state of train services it would be reasonable to restrict FTP access to off peak travel only.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Would there be any exceptions? Blind people? Mentally handicapped people? Wheelchair users(considering the poor state of wheelchair access on buses and many train services)?

These cases could be assessed individually. If more money were available to Irish Rail they could invest in wheelchair access on train platforms that do not have it. Prudent management of FTPs would ensure Irish Rail have a little more money. As I stated before, as long as FTPs are valid all day this will have a bigger impact on lines with less frequent trains such as the Waterford line. Some stations on this line are in very bad repair and in dire need of investment. If more trains were running it might increase revenue and reduce the proportion of FTP travellers because the demand is definitely there from the commuting classes. Many people who used to commute on this line gave up because of the limited train service and the overcrowding. They either get a bus or carpool instead.

Carawaystick

Emme wrote: »

These cases could be assessed individually.

Who would pay for these individual assessments?

Bray Head

Carawaystick wrote: »

Emme wrote: »

These cases could be assessed individually.

Who would pay for these individual assessments?

Universal schemes have their drawbacks, but means testing is costly and is a political minefield.
I would much prefer something simple like restricting hours of use for pensioners rather than introducing a means or a health assessment.

foggy_lad

Emme wrote: »

Of course the older voters would never go for it. They also have the time and the means to protest unlike those of us who have to work. I don't begrudge them their FTPs but I think with the current state of train services it would be reasonable to restrict FTP access to off peak travel only.

The recent reports have all suggested at closing different non performing lines to save money for Irish Rail which could then be put into providing better services on the remaining lines as well as using the extra rolling stock on lines such as Waterford-Dublin.

These cases could be assessed individually. If more money were available to Irish Rail they could invest in wheelchair access on train platforms that do not have it. Prudent management of FTPs would ensure Irish Rail have a little more money. As I stated before, as long as FTPs are valid all day this will have a bigger impact on lines with less frequent trains such as the Waterford line. Some stations on this line are in very bad repair and in dire need of investment. If more trains were running it might increase revenue and reduce the proportion of FTP travellers because the demand is definitely there from the commuting classes. Many people who used to commute on this line gave up because of the limited train service and the overcrowding. They either get a bus or carpool instead.

These assessments and even means testing would probably cost as much as it would save. Civil servants of the levels/grades required for such assessments don't come cheap.

As for the wheelchair access thing, there are ramps on all platforms but only for staff to use when they are helping a passenger. Would it have been too much to have at least one doorway on each train set that had an automatic ramp that deployed onto the platform when the door is opened?

Then the elephant in the room is that when so many travellers are taken out of the free travel net the services are going to be curtailed possibly quite severely due to much lower numbers travelling and this will spell the death-knell for more lines such as Gorey-Rosslare, Kilkenny-Waterford, Longford-Sligo and Athlone-Galway.

Emme

foggy_lad wrote: »

Then the elephant in the room is that when so many travellers are taken out of the free travel net the services are going to be curtailed possibly quite severely due to much lower numbers travelling and this will spell the death-knell for more lines such as Gorey-Rosslare, Kilkenny-Waterford, Longford-Sligo and Athlone-Galway.

I don't agree. A large amount of commuting passengers get on at Carlow and Athy. I don't know about the stations before that but there always a good number of passengers on the train before Carlow. More commuters would use the service if it were more customer-friendly. A good train service would improve small towns on the Waterford line, particularly Athy. It is located after Kildare and would benefit hugely from improvements to the platform. Carlow could do with improvements as well but Athy looks really run down.

murphaph

Bray Head wrote: »

Universal schemes have their drawbacks, but means testing is costly and is a political minefield.
I would much prefer something simple like restricting hours of use for pensioners rather than introducing a means or a health assessment.

Yeah means testing is crazy. Simply charge all FTP holders a nominal fare for each journey and the joyriding ceases.

jelutong

I've used the Waterford to Dublin train from time to time and I see more seats taken up with luggage etc rather than oaps.

doc11

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah means testing is crazy. Simply charge all FTP holders a nominal fare for each journey and the joyriding ceases.

Not to much bother, link it to the fuel allowance payment and job done. Millionaires getting subsidized travel is CRAZY.

Edups2.0

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah means testing is crazy. Simply charge all FTP holders a nominal fare for each journey and the joyriding ceases.

Good idea it's not like when you live on 180 euro a week you're struggling to have money spare.

AMKC

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The FT scheme costs less than 0.013% of the budget only slightly more than we spend on TG4
It gets groups predisposed to isolation out and about enhancing their physical and mental health however I think some changes are needed to it.

Here's my suggestions:

1. Get rid of carers passes and allow a +C on the careees card to ensure they're only using free travel when with the person they're taking care of

2. Some skangers have conditions that qualify for disability and get a pass and ride the Luas all day causing trouble. Allow IE, Dublin Bus, Luas security or inspectors or Garda to make reports to the DSP Free Travel section on antisocial behaviour against a pass number. If the number gets more than one complaint the pass is terminated by the DSP

3. All persons with a criminal conviction are automatically barred from getting a pass at the application stage, existing passes revoked.

4, All cornflake box passes terminated in 30 days, everyone given appointments within that time to get new passes, allowed get them the same way they do a passport

5. To help people value what they have, every time an intercity or cross border ticket is printed, instead of having €0.00 on the ticket it has the price it would have been if it was paid for, putting the smart card in the reader will show the total fares that would have been spent on the card.

6. Try to amend the deal so disabled can get all Ireland travel there's no reason pensioners can and disabled can't


As.to some of the more common suggestions:

(A charge)
Defeats the purpose 188 or 233 isn't a lot to live on. These charges tend to grow in Ireland. Take the student contribution charge when we brought in free college tuition it was a nominal £200 now it's over €3000

Also, political suicide

(Rush Hour Restrictions)
We know from past experiences why this doesn't work
•A lot of seniors and disabled have consultant appointments in hospitals either morning clinics that start at 8am or afternoon ones that will drag so they'll be running to catch busses before the gate slams down
•Unless they have to most sick or seniors wouldn't be traveling at the morning crush anyway

Any other ideas? Thoughts on what I suggested?

Point 6 you say only pensioners have free travel all over Ireland but disabled travelers have too unless your talking about going up North.

Edups2.0

AMKC wrote: »

Point 6 you say only pensioners have free travel all over Ireland but disabled travelers have too unless your talking about going up North.

Yeah I think they are. Only OAP can get SmartPass. I don't understand why though? If you want to go up north on the bus and you've got a pass I can't understand the problem. If having a travel card can get me to and from the Aran Islands and Tory Islands I don't see the problem. How often would one travel up north unless you lived near the border.

murphaph

Edups2.0 wrote: »

Good idea it's not like when you live on 180 euro a week you're struggling to have money spare.

Give everyone an extra fiver a week and introduce a nominal fare on journeys for FTP holders. By the way...you really think all FTP holders are living on 180 a week? I've 2 in my family that certainly don't. There are far to many people legally entitled to an FTP.

Doing nothing with this out of control monster of a scheme is not an option.

monument

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah means testing is crazy. Simply charge all FTP holders a nominal fare for each journey and the joyriding ceases.

The joyride bit is not needed and annoys people rather than making your point

-- moderator

Emme

jelutong wrote: »

I've used the Waterford to Dublin train from time to time and I see more seats taken up with luggage etc rather than oaps.

In the summer tourists using the train would put luggage on their seats and take it down if people needed a seat. With respect, if you only use the Waterford to Dublin train from time to time you won't get a true picture of what's going on. If you commute day in day out it's a different story.

This morning people were standing on the Waterford train from Athy. Some people get off at Newbridge but more get on there.

Commuter trains are not really suitable for people who aren't regular commuters. It isn't possible to make yourself comfortable on a commuter train and many OAPs (fair enough) like to make themselves comfortable when they travel. They like to read newspapers, do crosswords, knit and play cards on the train. It is difficult to do any of these things on a crowded commuter train. Some of them seem to be offended at the presence of commuters cramping their style! The same goes for tourists and other non-commuters who might be carrying more luggage than commuters.

Again if commuter trains are packed to capacity with people going to work it isn't feasible to continue providing access to FTP holders on commuter services (say trains travelling before 9am). Asking FTP holders to pay a small fee would not solve the problem of overcrowding. Either restrict access to FTP holders to non-commuter services or increase capacity on trains.

murphaph

monument wrote: »

The joyride bit is not needed and annoys people rather than making your point

-- moderator

What's an acceptable term for the needless journeys alluded to by the transport professionals in this thread? I'll be happy to use it as my intention was most definitely not to wind anyone up!

TheQuietFella

I was on a bus yesterday and a passenger tried to use his wife's free travel

pass and to be fair to the driver he refused to accept it. But then the passenger

pulled out a wad of cash and paid for the fare!

foggy_lad

Edups2.0 wrote: »

Yeah I think they are. Only OAP can get SmartPass. I don't understand why though? If you want to go up north on the bus and you've got a pass I can't understand the problem. If having a travel card can get me to and from the Aran Islands and Tory Islands I don't see the problem. How often would one travel up north unless you lived near the border.

You can travel to and from the Islands on the scheduled flights only if you live on the Islands. Any free pass holder can use it to cross the border but once in the north any further travel within the North must be paid for unless the person is a pensioner and has applied for the senior smart pass.

Emme wrote: »

In the summer tourists using the train would put luggage on their seats and take it down if people needed a seat. With respect, if you only use the Waterford to Dublin train from time to time you won't get a true picture of what's going on. If you commute day in day out it's a different story.

Placing luggage in the aisles or blocking seats whether in buses or train carriages is the height of ignorance. This problem is not due to tourists who will always use the luggage racks and bays, it is Irish people who feel they are slumming it by taking the bus or train and don't want the great unwashed sitting next to them so they block the seat with their dirty carry-on case.

Saying that they will move the bags if people ask is not good enough, people should not have to ask to use a free seat and luggage should never be placed on or in front of a seat.

This morning people were standing on the Waterford train from Athy. Some people get off at Newbridge but more get on there.

Were there no free seats at all on that service? It is usually a 6 car set, was that the case this morning?

Commuter trains are not really suitable for people who aren't regular commuters. It isn't possible to make yourself comfortable on a commuter train and many OAPs (fair enough) like to make themselves comfortable when they travel. They like to read newspapers, do crosswords, knit and play cards on the train. It is difficult to do any of these things on a crowded commuter train. Some of them seem to be offended at the presence of commuters cramping their style! The same goes for tourists and other non-commuters who might be carrying more luggage than commuters.

There are only 22000 trains used on the Waterford-Dublin line, there are no 29000 "commuter" railcars used.

Any time I have seen that train really full it is full of people reading papers, drinking tea or even wine or a few cans and yes I have seen people knitting on the train a few times

Again if commuter trains are packed to capacity with people going to work it isn't feasible to continue providing access to FTP holders on commuter services (say trains travelling before 9am). Asking FTP holders to pay a small fee would not solve the problem of overcrowding. Either restrict access to FTP holders to non-commuter services or increase capacity on trains.

Many people with free travel(carers and others) also work whether part time or full time, others study and many others attend training centres for the disabled, so for them the train is just a way of getting there the same as it is for other commuters.

foggy_lad

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I was on a bus yesterday and a passenger tried to use his wife's free travel

pass and to be fair to the driver he refused to accept it. But then the passenger

pulled out a wad of cash and paid for the fare!

More likely a stolen pass or one found and not handed in. Did the driver take the pass? AFAIK staff have now been told that they can't take the new social welfare card even if it is being used fraudulently because it is also used for issuing payments.

Emme

foggy_lad wrote: »

Placing luggage in the aisles or blocking seats whether in buses or train carriages is the height of ignorance. This problem is not due to tourists who will always use the luggage racks and bays, it is Irish people who feel they are slumming it by taking the bus or train and don't want the great unwashed sitting next to them so they block the seat with their dirty carry-on case.

I didn't ask the people with cases their nationality but they could well have been Irish.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Saying that they will move the bags if people ask is not good enough, people should not have to ask to use a free seat and luggage should never be placed on or in front of a seat.

I agree. However luggage can go missing on crowded trains due to people taking the wrong case or bag by mistake or opportunistic theft. I travelled on a 4 car train that was so crush loaded the luggage racks were full and also the luggage compartment at the end of the carriage. Standing passengers had to compete for floor space with luggage.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Were there no free seats at all on that service? It is usually a 6 car set, was that the case this morning?

There were some free seats after a few people got off at Newbridge but they were quickly filled and people had to stand as well. It was a 6 car set but it is getting very common for all seats to be full by Athy.

foggy_lad wrote: »

There are only 22000 trains used on the Waterford-Dublin line, there are no 29000 "commuter" railcars used.

If that's the case why does Iarnrod Eireann charge commuters thousands for annual train tickets to travel on the Waterford line? I am not referring to the number describing the train model, I am referring to the people using the train. Does Iarnrod Eireann not want paying passengers who travel to and from Dublin every day on the 22000 Waterford-Dublin trains? Would you rather the majority of passengers were FTP holders and the odd fool paying for their ticket?

Iarnrod Eireann could make more money from paying commuters on the Waterford line if they changed their attitude, put on more trains and didn't treat commuters with contempt. Commuters are the way forward. More and more people who work in Dublin are buying houses outside of the city in towns like Carlow and Athy. Even more would buy if there were a decent train service. There isn't but we have to put up with what's available because Carlow and Athy are the only places we can afford to buy houses.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Any time I have seen that train really full it is full of people reading papers, drinking tea or even wine or a few cans and yes I have seen people knitting on the train a few times

If Iarnrod Eireann sells tea on board some people are going to pay for it and drink it. I have seen people drinking wine and cans on board - it's not ideal no more than people eating stinky takeaways but what can you do about it.

The knitting needles are handy for grannies to stick in other passengers to keep them away! Only joking

foggy_lad wrote: »

Many people with free travel(carers and others) also work whether part time or full time, others study and many others attend training centres for the disabled, so for them the train is just a way of getting there the same as it is for other commuters.

How are these people able to get free travel if they are working over a certain number of hours a week? This is not fair on others who work full-time but pay thousands for an annual ticket.

The working poor are pushed to their limits and beyond. We are fed up of subsiding others while not getting any tangible value for our taxes and not getting what we pay for. This doesn't just apply to train travel.

Gatling

Emme wrote: »

I didn't ask the people with cases their nationality but they could well have been Irish.



I agree. However luggage can go missing on crowded trains due to people taking the wrong case or bag by mistake or opportunistic theft. I travelled on a 4 car train that was so crush loaded the luggage racks were full and also the luggage compartment at the end of the carriage. Standing passengers had to compete for floor space with luggage.



There were some free seats after a few people got off at Newbridge but they were quickly filled and people had to stand as well. It was a 6 car set but it is getting very common for all seats to be full by Athy.



If that's the case why does Iarnrod Eireann charge commuters thousands for annual train tickets to travel on the Waterford line? I am not referring to the number describing the train model, I am referring to the people using the train. Does Iarnrod Eireann not want paying passengers who travel to and from Dublin every day on the 22000 Waterford-Dublin trains? Would you rather the majority of passengers were FTP holders and the odd fool paying for their ticket?

Iarnrod Eireann could make more money from paying commuters on the Waterford line if they changed their attitude, put on more trains and didn't treat commuters with contempt. Commuters are the way forward. More and more people who work in Dublin are buying houses outside of the city in towns like Carlow and Athy. Even more would buy if there were a decent train service. There isn't but we have to put up with what's available because Carlow and Athy are the only places we can afford to buy houses.



If Iarnrod Eireann sells tea on board some people are going to pay for it and drink it. I have seen people drinking wine and cans on board - it's not ideal no more than people eating stinky takeaways but what can you do about it.

The knitting needles are handy for grannies to stick in other passengers to keep them away! Only joking



How are these people able to get free travel if they are working over a certain number of hours a week? This is not fair on others who work full-time but pay thousands for an annual ticket.

The working poor are pushed to their limits and beyond. We are fed up of subsiding others while not getting any tangible value for our taxes and not getting what we pay for. This doesn't just apply to train travel.

Do you have any evidence to back up your claims about the FTP or are we only dealing with purely anecdotal stuff on your behalf

foggy_lad

Emme wrote: »

I didn't ask the people with cases their nationality but they could well have been Irish.

I usually encounter them on the late buses and they usually are returning from business trips and board at the airport with their bags taking up the seat beside them.

I agree. However luggage can go missing on crowded trains due to people taking the wrong case or bag by mistake or opportunistic theft. I travelled on a 4 car train that was so crush loaded the luggage racks were full and also the luggage compartment at the end of the carriage. Standing passengers had to compete for floor space with luggage.

There is plenty of space in the overhead racks for one carry-on sized case for each passenger and larger cases can be left at the end of the carriage, If people have more luggage they should really make special arrangements.

A 4 car train at peak time is going to be crowded and that is something you should take up with Irish Rail rather than blaming other travellers for filling up the train.

There were some free seats after a few people got off at Newbridge but they were quickly filled and people had to stand as well. It was a 6 car set but it is getting very common for all seats to be full by Athy.

All seats full is not overcrowded. If people are unable to leave the train at Newbridge or Kildare because the aisles and vestibules are too crowded then the train is overcrowded!

If that's the case why does Iarnrod Eireann charge commuters thousands for annual train tickets to travel on the Waterford line? I am not referring to the number describing the train model, I am referring to the people using the train. Does Iarnrod Eireann not want paying passengers who travel to and from Dublin every day on the 22000 Waterford-Dublin trains? Would you rather the majority of passengers were FTP holders and the odd fool paying for their ticket?

Iarnrod Eireann could make more money from paying commuters on the Waterford line if they changed their attitude, put on more trains and didn't treat commuters with contempt. Commuters are the way forward. More and more people who work in Dublin are buying houses outside of the city in towns like Carlow and Athy. Even more would buy if there were a decent train service. There isn't but we have to put up with what's available because Carlow and Athy are the only places we can afford to buy houses.

You should take this up with Irish Rail.

If Iarnrod Eireann sells tea on board some people are going to pay for it and drink it. I have seen people drinking wine and cans on board - it's not ideal no more than people eating stinky takeaways but what can you do about it.

The knitting needles are handy for grannies to stick in other passengers to keep them away! Only joking

At least the buses have a No hot food or drinks rule!

How are these people able to get free travel if they are working over a certain number of hours a week? This is not fair on others who work full-time but pay thousands for an annual ticket.

Many mentally handicapped and other disabled and mobility impaired people work full time in work or in "training centres" for a nominal wage, should their free travel be removed?

The working poor are pushed to their limits and beyond. We are fed up of subsiding others while not getting any tangible value for our taxes and not getting what we pay for. This doesn't just apply to train travel.

Free travel is not means tested but many of the payments which include free travel like invalidity and disability pensions are means tested, other payments like Carers and the contributory OAP and many other payments allow people travel for free who could well afford to pay the full fare.

Basically many fit and able-bodied older people are getting free travel without any means test but the people who need it most like the disabled and those getting blind pensions and invalidity pensions are all means tested.

joeysoap

jelutong wrote: »

I've used the Waterford to Dublin train from time to time and I see more seats taken up with luggage etc rather than oaps.

Try getting on the enterprise at Dundalk and Drogheda and see how many seats are taken up by travellers from Belfast who hog the aisle seats with bags etc and who think the train is for their use only. (Return journey is fine)

I qualified for FTP (66) recently. Have used it a couple of times and hope to do so again. I would agree that a nominal fee should be payable for train journeys maybe 2.50 return (and the same for with + S). Bus travel exempt and Dublin Bus/Dart/Luas definitely exempt. Have to say while queueing up at a railway station fairly recently iwas somewhat surprised at the ages of people displaying FTP to the official issuing tickets. 3 'youngish' lads who I saw getting the free ticket spent the entire journey drinking cans of beer. (Couldn't get a seat, stood in the space between carriages and they sat on the floor beside us)

How many FTP's are there out there and what % goes to the different groups?We shouldn't forget either that in rural Ireland some public services, though vital are often infrequent. In that sense FT is really terrific for high density routes but less so for rural villages. I definitely would not recommend a charge of any sort for rural travellers.

Ok rural is a bit of a loose description but a small charge for the train is not unreasonable.

Emme

joeysoap wrote: »

I definitely would not recommend a charge of any sort for rural travellers.

What about more trains, particularly in rural towns where people commute to and from a city for work?

joeysoap

Emme wrote: »

What about more trains, particularly in rural towns where people commute to and from a city for work?

More trains during 'commute' periods would be ideal, but I suspect that it's a balancing job and if you hire more staff and buy more rolling stock would it pay for itself on full day basis over 365 days? By rural I really meant the likes of Cavan, Monaghan, Leitrim, Mayo, Clare, Donegal etc etc where a train is not an option. Personally I wouldn't mind if they just subsidised travel for the oaps for train journeys. Say half price on trains and free on busses. I was on holidays during the summer and got a decent discount on train travel for over 60's - don't think they had completely free travel.

Emme

joeysoap wrote: »

More trains during 'commute' periods would be ideal, but I suspect that it's a balancing job and if you hire more staff and buy more rolling stock would it pay for itself on full day basis over 365 days? By rural I really meant the likes of Cavan, Monaghan, Leitrim, Mayo, Clare, Donegal etc etc where a train is not an option.

OK. By rural I meant commuter towns like Athy, Carlow and on the Portlaoise line Monasterevan and Portarlington. I don't know about the Portlaoise line but the Waterford line is very badly served and commuters from Athy onwards are very hard done by.

joeysoap wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't mind if they just subsidised travel for the oaps for train journeys. Say half price on trains and free on busses. I was on holidays during the summer and got a decent discount on train travel for over 60's - don't think they had completely free travel.

I think that would be fair for OAPs that are reasonably well off. Some are destitute and need a free travel pass.

As far as I know students do not get a travel discount. In my student days there was a FAIR card which gave 16-26 year olds reduced rail travel.

joeysoap

Differing on what rural means, which is ok. As I posted I have the FTP and lucky enough to live where there is pretty good connections something in the region of 14 trains to Dublin per day, 20 or so private bus returns and maybe 15 Bus Eireann returns to Dublin. And Bus Eireann serve the airport directly so plenty of connections there. I am grateful for the FT but genuinely wouldn't object to a fee or maybe a discount for using the train service.

Spent a few days in Vienna in Sept and used the train service while there. The underground in Vienna (whole city is one zone) was €2.20 for a single ticket for under 60's and €2.80 for two tickets for over 60's. Well discounted but not free.

A private train company had discounted tickets for over 60's - €18 for a trip to Salzburg - €25.50 full fare. Didn't appear to be any free travel but still respect for older persons by offering discounts.

https://westbahn.at/en/offers/westbahn-offers/trafik-aktiv-ticket/

Gael23

I'm on Disability Allowance and day to day I don't have to use my pass at rush hour but 2 years ago I had a health setback which required me to go to a hospital clinic twice a week, taking a 9am bus. It's unrealistic and unenforceable to restrict usage to off peak hours.