Reforms to Free Travel Scheme

XPS_Zero

The FT scheme costs less than 0.013% of the budget only slightly more than we spend on TG4
It gets groups predisposed to isolation out and about enhancing their physical and mental health however I think some changes are needed to it.

Here's my suggestions:

1. Get rid of carers passes and allow a +C on the careees card to ensure they're only using free travel when with the person they're taking care of

2. Some skangers have conditions that qualify for disability and get a pass and ride the Luas all day causing trouble. Allow IE, Dublin Bus, Luas security or inspectors or Garda to make reports to the DSP Free Travel section on antisocial behaviour against a pass number. If the number gets more than one complaint the pass is terminated by the DSP

3. All persons with a criminal conviction are automatically barred from getting a pass at the application stage, existing passes revoked.

4, All cornflake box passes terminated in 30 days, everyone given appointments within that time to get new passes, allowed get them the same way they do a passport

5. To help people value what they have, every time an intercity or cross border ticket is printed, instead of having €0.00 on the ticket it has the price it would have been if it was paid for, putting the smart card in the reader will show the total fares that would have been spent on the card.

6. Try to amend the deal so disabled can get all Ireland travel there's no reason pensioners can and disabled can't


As.to some of the more common suggestions:

(A charge)
Defeats the purpose 188 or 233 isn't a lot to live on. These charges tend to grow in Ireland. Take the student contribution charge when we brought in free college tuition it was a nominal £200 now it's over €3000

Also, political suicide

(Rush Hour Restrictions)
We know from past experiences why this doesn't work
•A lot of seniors and disabled have consultant appointments in hospitals either morning clinics that start at 8am or afternoon ones that will drag so they'll be running to catch busses before the gate slams down
•Unless they have to most sick or seniors wouldn't be traveling at the morning crush anyway

Any other ideas? Thoughts on what I suggested?

Gatling

Popcorn thread

XPS_Zero

Glad you've decided to be constructive

Long as you don't say bold words tho mods here don't care

Gatling

This says enough.

2. Some skangers have conditions that qualify for disability and get a pass and ride the Luas all day causing trouble.

3. All persons with a criminal conviction are automatically barred from getting a pass at the application stage, existing passes revoked.

There's no difference between disabled and pensioner passes.


I'm all for discussion but not a welfare bashing thread ,

How about the actual costs and the phasing out of the paper passes which was supposed to happen sometime this year

Ciaran_B

After Hours is that way

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newacc2015

Rush hour restrictions are needed. They should pay full fare if they wish to use the transport during that time. In most of Europe OAPs have to pay full fare and students pay a nominal amount. Here broke students get a ridiculous 20% off full fares, which makes it considerably more expensive than if you were a high income earner.

Im sure OAPs have Doctors appointments etc. But I imagine at most they have a handful per year. Paying €4 in bus fare the odd time isnt going to kill them. Most sitting on the bus at 8am while everyone is trying to get to work are doing a "bit of shopping".

harr

While I agree with some points ...especially getting rid of the paper pass ..I have to disagree with the carer only traveling with the person they are caring for..
I am a full time carer for a child with a disability who spends various spells in hospital so I use my pass to travel to and from the hospital on the train...I also have various meetings and training involved with my child's needs again I need to use public transport as I do not have use of a car most days as wife uses the car to get to her job.. I do try use the pass only when traveling to appointments connected with my child's disability, without my pass we would be put under more Financial pressure and things are tough enough money wise as things stand...does not help when a lot of people brand all travel pass holders as freeloaders and wasters (not op)
I need my pass ..
And I agree that a lot of people are getting the pass to easy.

BowWow

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The FT scheme costs less than 0.013% of the budget only slightly more than we spend on TG4

I'd disagree with this - The figure of .013% is what the government pay out on "Free" Travel. I suspect the actual cost is significantly higher, but we'll only get that figure when everybody has, and is using, the new type cards.

BowWow

Suggestion - People with a FTP that entitles them to have a Career with them should only be allowed travel provided there is actually a carer with them.

(i.e. If they medically need a carer they should have one...)

end of the road

newacc2015 wrote: »

Rush hour restrictions are needed. They should pay full fare if they wish to use the transport during that time. In most of Europe OAPs have to pay full fare and students pay a nominal amount. Here broke students get a ridiculous 20% off full fares, which makes it considerably more expensive than if you were a high income earner.

Im sure OAPs have Doctors appointments etc. But I imagine at most they have a handful per year. Paying €4 in bus fare the odd time isnt going to kill them. Most sitting on the bus at 8am while everyone is trying to get to work are doing a "bit of shopping".

and how would you know what they are doing. maybe they have apointments. maybe they could have god knows what. it actually isn't our business, as public transport is for all not just you or me.
rush hour restrictions were abolished for a reason, because they didn't work. if you can't get a seat that's unfortunate but that's your problem, and even if the rush hour restrictions were to be brought back chances are you still wouldn't get one.

Jamie2k9

Politician and backbone never go in the same sentence just like reform and free scheme when it comes to policies.

harr

Another thing I find odd my child for instance can't get a travel pass till they are 18/16
..I get a pass as the carer but I have to pay for my child with special needs..
So if attending a Hosptial appointment I go free as the carer but I need to pay for the himself on the train ..

Jamie2k9

harr wrote: »

Another thing I find odd my child for instance can't get a travel pass till they are 18/16
..I get a pass as the carer but I have to pay for my child with special needs..
So if attending a Hosptial appointment I go free as the carer but I need to pay for the himself on the train ..

Children under 18 can get passes but it really depends on the nature of the issue.

Carawaystick

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Children under 18 can get passes but it really depends on the nature of the issue.

Surely if an adult carer can get a pass, a child should meet the same conditions?

Jamie2k9

Carawaystick wrote: »

Surely if an adult carer can get a pass, a child should meet the same conditions?

Unlikely, I know someone who has visual problems and has had a pass since he was 2 or 3 (second person can travel). Neither parent have a pass.

coylemj

BowWow wrote: »

Suggestion - People with a FTP that entitles them to have a Career with them should only be allowed travel provided there is actually a carer with them.

(i.e. If they medically need a carer they should have one...)

That's a crazy suggestion. For starters, everyone over the age of 70 can get a travel pass to cover them and a carer, whether they are medically certified or not. So your suggestion would require people over the age of 70 to stay at home unless they could find someone to travel with them.

And there's lots of people under 70 with a pass and medically certified to need a carer but who would feel comfortable travelling alone on short journeys maybe in daylight hours on dry days but who would prefer to have someone accompany them in other circumstances, your suggestion would remove this flexibility in their lives.

BowWow

coylemj wrote: »

there's lots of people under 70 with a pass and medically certified to need a carer but who would feel comfortable travelling alone

If they are medically certified to NEED a carer, they shouldn't travel without one no matter how comfortable they feel. The onus should not be on other passengers or bus driver to look after them.

Gatling

I can imagine a situation where parents of kids with minor learning difficulties and minor ailments demanding free travel .

1 euro for a bus each way is hardly putting people out

harr

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Children under 18 can get passes but it really depends on the nature of the issue.

I know but it's normally children who would be visually impaired ..well the only children I know with a pass have a visual impairment ..I am sure they have other criteria for issuing a pass to a child..

BowWow

coylemj wrote: »

everyone over the age of 70 can get a travel pass to cover them and a carer, whether they are medically certified or not. So your suggestion would require people over the age of 70 to stay at home unless they could find someone to travel with them.

If they need a carer they can have a pass with the ability to have a carer with them.

If they don't need a carer why should they have the ability to bring anyone with them?

harr

Gatling wrote: »

I can imagine a situation where parents of kids with minor learning difficulties and minor ailments demanding free travel .

1 euro for a bus each way is hardly putting people out

Doesn't happen like that...you have to be in in receipt of cares allowance before pass is issued and like i said not ever child with a disability will be given a travel pass..

Peppa Pig

BowWow wrote: »

If they need a carer they can have a pass with the ability to have a carer with them.

If they don't need a carer why should they have the ability to bring anyone with them?

First of all, it is not a "carer" pass, it is a "companion" pass. Most people who have a carer do not need 24/7 care, they need help with day to day activities.
Somebody who needs care getting out of and into bed may not need help during the day. No need why they should not travel alone. Otherwise they will simply offer another passenger a free list to be their "companion".

I see where you are coming from but not everyone needs a constant carer.

Spanish Eyes

Am I right in thinking that a carer gets a pass in their own right, but a companion pass is attached to the ftp holders card. In other words the companion cannot travel without the ftp holder.

BowWow

Peppa Pig wrote: »

First of all, it is not a "carer" pass, it is a "companion" pass. Most people who have a carer do not need 24/7 care, they need help with day to day activities. Somebody who needs care getting out of and into bed may not need help during the day. No need why they should not travel alone. Otherwise they will simply offer another passenger a free list to be their "companion". I see where you are coming from but not everyone needs a constant carer.

Apologies, hear what you are saying re "companion"

This from the Dept website - "If FT+C is written on your Public Services Card a companion (over 16) can travel with you for free (because you are unable to travel alone for medical reasons)."

Clearly the Companion Pass is intended for people who need someone to travel with them - and not just for company.
I say again, if someone needs a companion for medical reasons, they shouldn't be out on public transport without one...

harr

BowWow wrote: »

Apologies, hear what you are saying re "companion"

This from the Dept website - "If FT+C is written on your Public Services Card a companion (over 16) can travel with you for free (because you are unable to travel alone for medical reasons)."

Clearly the Companion Pass is intended for people who need someone to travel with them - and not just for company.
I say again, if someone needs a companion for medical reasons, they shouldn't be out on public transport without one...

Take my mother for instance who is her 70,s and is generally well but has bad arthritis and most days ok to travel in the bus on her own but there are times she definitely needs someone to travel with her ...this is the reason for companion pass ...not all elderly people are going to be sick all the time but when they are they definitely need someone with them ... deeming her medical unfit to travel alone on her pass would definitely take away what little freedom she currently has..

Peppa Pig

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that a carer gets a pass in their own right, but a companion pass is attached to the ftp holders card. In other words the companion cannot travel without the ftp holder.

Yes, a carer has their own pass and can travel whenever. The companion to a FT+C card can only accompany the actual card holder.

BowWow wrote:

This from the Dept website - "If FT+C is written on your Public Services Card a companion (over 16) can travel with you for free (because you are unable to travel alone for medical reasons)."

That's fairly explicit, all right, didn't realise that. I got one when I moved to an invalidity pension, the medical stuff or info requested never covered travelling alone. I was a bit surprised when it arrived with the FT+C on it.

Cookie_Monster

Getting the proper credit card style cards out there should be a priority. Cut out any fraudulent use and get proper statistics on usage and patterns to be able to assess the real impact it has is key to dictating any other changes in costs or usage restrictions or further provisions.

Jem72

How about any travel required to attend hospital appointments being reimbursed by the HSE? The HSE have done a huge amount of centralisation of services over the last 10 years which is pushing costs onto either patients or transport companies.

The nub of the issue for Irish Rail is that Free Travel accounts for about 12 or 13% of the passengers / costs while the income only covers about 7% of the budget. This disparity needs to be resolved one way or the other.

gctest50

Jem72 wrote: »

The nub of the issue for Irish Rail is that Free Travel accounts for about 12 or 13% of the passengers / costs while the income only covers about 7% of the budget. This disparity needs to be resolved one way or the other.

The bus/Luas would be going anyway - only really costs if a "paying" customer is left behind

Carawaystick

BowWow wrote: »

Clearly the Companion Pass is intended for people who need someone to travel with them - and not just for company.
I say again, if someone needs a companion for medical reasons, they shouldn't be out on public transport without one...

There is a huge range of public transport options covered under the free travel scheme.
It is entirely plausible a person does not need a companion to go on the bus to the shops, but does need a companion to go to Dublin on the train.
Getting on and off trains on curved platforms being one glaringly obvious issue.

Jem72

gctest50 wrote: »

The bus/Luas would be going anyway - only really costs if a "paying" customer is left behind

This argument applies to an extent at off-peak times but as capacity planning is based around peak loading, the cost is not free. Paying customers will avoid travelling or use the car due to overcrowding.

In many cases, extra buses have to be put on and train capacity has to be increased at peak times.

Maybe they should just take everyone for free on a bus if there are empty seats since the bus is going anyway.