Reforms to Free Travel Scheme

XPS_Zero

The FT scheme costs less than 0.013% of the budget only slightly more than we spend on TG4
It gets groups predisposed to isolation out and about enhancing their physical and mental health however I think some changes are needed to it.

Here's my suggestions:

1. Get rid of carers passes and allow a +C on the careees card to ensure they're only using free travel when with the person they're taking care of

2. Some skangers have conditions that qualify for disability and get a pass and ride the Luas all day causing trouble. Allow IE, Dublin Bus, Luas security or inspectors or Garda to make reports to the DSP Free Travel section on antisocial behaviour against a pass number. If the number gets more than one complaint the pass is terminated by the DSP

3. All persons with a criminal conviction are automatically barred from getting a pass at the application stage, existing passes revoked.

4, All cornflake box passes terminated in 30 days, everyone given appointments within that time to get new passes, allowed get them the same way they do a passport

5. To help people value what they have, every time an intercity or cross border ticket is printed, instead of having €0.00 on the ticket it has the price it would have been if it was paid for, putting the smart card in the reader will show the total fares that would have been spent on the card.

6. Try to amend the deal so disabled can get all Ireland travel there's no reason pensioners can and disabled can't


As.to some of the more common suggestions:

(A charge)
Defeats the purpose 188 or 233 isn't a lot to live on. These charges tend to grow in Ireland. Take the student contribution charge when we brought in free college tuition it was a nominal £200 now it's over €3000

Also, political suicide

(Rush Hour Restrictions)
We know from past experiences why this doesn't work
•A lot of seniors and disabled have consultant appointments in hospitals either morning clinics that start at 8am or afternoon ones that will drag so they'll be running to catch busses before the gate slams down
•Unless they have to most sick or seniors wouldn't be traveling at the morning crush anyway

Any other ideas? Thoughts on what I suggested?

Gatling

Popcorn thread

XPS_Zero

Glad you've decided to be constructive

Long as you don't say bold words tho mods here don't care

Gatling

This says enough.

2. Some skangers have conditions that qualify for disability and get a pass and ride the Luas all day causing trouble.

3. All persons with a criminal conviction are automatically barred from getting a pass at the application stage, existing passes revoked.

There's no difference between disabled and pensioner passes.


I'm all for discussion but not a welfare bashing thread ,

How about the actual costs and the phasing out of the paper passes which was supposed to happen sometime this year

Ciaran_B

After Hours is that way

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newacc2015

Rush hour restrictions are needed. They should pay full fare if they wish to use the transport during that time. In most of Europe OAPs have to pay full fare and students pay a nominal amount. Here broke students get a ridiculous 20% off full fares, which makes it considerably more expensive than if you were a high income earner.

Im sure OAPs have Doctors appointments etc. But I imagine at most they have a handful per year. Paying €4 in bus fare the odd time isnt going to kill them. Most sitting on the bus at 8am while everyone is trying to get to work are doing a "bit of shopping".

harr

While I agree with some points ...especially getting rid of the paper pass ..I have to disagree with the carer only traveling with the person they are caring for..
I am a full time carer for a child with a disability who spends various spells in hospital so I use my pass to travel to and from the hospital on the train...I also have various meetings and training involved with my child's needs again I need to use public transport as I do not have use of a car most days as wife uses the car to get to her job.. I do try use the pass only when traveling to appointments connected with my child's disability, without my pass we would be put under more Financial pressure and things are tough enough money wise as things stand...does not help when a lot of people brand all travel pass holders as freeloaders and wasters (not op)
I need my pass ..
And I agree that a lot of people are getting the pass to easy.

BowWow

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The FT scheme costs less than 0.013% of the budget only slightly more than we spend on TG4

I'd disagree with this - The figure of .013% is what the government pay out on "Free" Travel. I suspect the actual cost is significantly higher, but we'll only get that figure when everybody has, and is using, the new type cards.

BowWow

Suggestion - People with a FTP that entitles them to have a Career with them should only be allowed travel provided there is actually a carer with them.

(i.e. If they medically need a carer they should have one...)

end of the road

newacc2015 wrote: »

Rush hour restrictions are needed. They should pay full fare if they wish to use the transport during that time. In most of Europe OAPs have to pay full fare and students pay a nominal amount. Here broke students get a ridiculous 20% off full fares, which makes it considerably more expensive than if you were a high income earner.

Im sure OAPs have Doctors appointments etc. But I imagine at most they have a handful per year. Paying €4 in bus fare the odd time isnt going to kill them. Most sitting on the bus at 8am while everyone is trying to get to work are doing a "bit of shopping".

and how would you know what they are doing. maybe they have apointments. maybe they could have god knows what. it actually isn't our business, as public transport is for all not just you or me.
rush hour restrictions were abolished for a reason, because they didn't work. if you can't get a seat that's unfortunate but that's your problem, and even if the rush hour restrictions were to be brought back chances are you still wouldn't get one.

Jamie2k9

Politician and backbone never go in the same sentence just like reform and free scheme when it comes to policies.

harr

Another thing I find odd my child for instance can't get a travel pass till they are 18/16
..I get a pass as the carer but I have to pay for my child with special needs..
So if attending a Hosptial appointment I go free as the carer but I need to pay for the himself on the train ..

Jamie2k9

harr wrote: »

Another thing I find odd my child for instance can't get a travel pass till they are 18/16
..I get a pass as the carer but I have to pay for my child with special needs..
So if attending a Hosptial appointment I go free as the carer but I need to pay for the himself on the train ..

Children under 18 can get passes but it really depends on the nature of the issue.

Carawaystick

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Children under 18 can get passes but it really depends on the nature of the issue.

Surely if an adult carer can get a pass, a child should meet the same conditions?

Jamie2k9

Carawaystick wrote: »

Surely if an adult carer can get a pass, a child should meet the same conditions?

Unlikely, I know someone who has visual problems and has had a pass since he was 2 or 3 (second person can travel). Neither parent have a pass.

coylemj

BowWow wrote: »

Suggestion - People with a FTP that entitles them to have a Career with them should only be allowed travel provided there is actually a carer with them.

(i.e. If they medically need a carer they should have one...)

That's a crazy suggestion. For starters, everyone over the age of 70 can get a travel pass to cover them and a carer, whether they are medically certified or not. So your suggestion would require people over the age of 70 to stay at home unless they could find someone to travel with them.

And there's lots of people under 70 with a pass and medically certified to need a carer but who would feel comfortable travelling alone on short journeys maybe in daylight hours on dry days but who would prefer to have someone accompany them in other circumstances, your suggestion would remove this flexibility in their lives.

BowWow

coylemj wrote: »

there's lots of people under 70 with a pass and medically certified to need a carer but who would feel comfortable travelling alone

If they are medically certified to NEED a carer, they shouldn't travel without one no matter how comfortable they feel. The onus should not be on other passengers or bus driver to look after them.

Gatling

I can imagine a situation where parents of kids with minor learning difficulties and minor ailments demanding free travel .

1 euro for a bus each way is hardly putting people out

harr

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Children under 18 can get passes but it really depends on the nature of the issue.

I know but it's normally children who would be visually impaired ..well the only children I know with a pass have a visual impairment ..I am sure they have other criteria for issuing a pass to a child..

BowWow

coylemj wrote: »

everyone over the age of 70 can get a travel pass to cover them and a carer, whether they are medically certified or not. So your suggestion would require people over the age of 70 to stay at home unless they could find someone to travel with them.

If they need a carer they can have a pass with the ability to have a carer with them.

If they don't need a carer why should they have the ability to bring anyone with them?

harr

Gatling wrote: »

I can imagine a situation where parents of kids with minor learning difficulties and minor ailments demanding free travel .

1 euro for a bus each way is hardly putting people out

Doesn't happen like that...you have to be in in receipt of cares allowance before pass is issued and like i said not ever child with a disability will be given a travel pass..

Peppa Pig

BowWow wrote: »

If they need a carer they can have a pass with the ability to have a carer with them.

If they don't need a carer why should they have the ability to bring anyone with them?

First of all, it is not a "carer" pass, it is a "companion" pass. Most people who have a carer do not need 24/7 care, they need help with day to day activities.
Somebody who needs care getting out of and into bed may not need help during the day. No need why they should not travel alone. Otherwise they will simply offer another passenger a free list to be their "companion".

I see where you are coming from but not everyone needs a constant carer.

Spanish Eyes

Am I right in thinking that a carer gets a pass in their own right, but a companion pass is attached to the ftp holders card. In other words the companion cannot travel without the ftp holder.

BowWow

Peppa Pig wrote: »

First of all, it is not a "carer" pass, it is a "companion" pass. Most people who have a carer do not need 24/7 care, they need help with day to day activities. Somebody who needs care getting out of and into bed may not need help during the day. No need why they should not travel alone. Otherwise they will simply offer another passenger a free list to be their "companion". I see where you are coming from but not everyone needs a constant carer.

Apologies, hear what you are saying re "companion"

This from the Dept website - "If FT+C is written on your Public Services Card a companion (over 16) can travel with you for free (because you are unable to travel alone for medical reasons)."

Clearly the Companion Pass is intended for people who need someone to travel with them - and not just for company.
I say again, if someone needs a companion for medical reasons, they shouldn't be out on public transport without one...

harr

BowWow wrote: »

Apologies, hear what you are saying re "companion"

This from the Dept website - "If FT+C is written on your Public Services Card a companion (over 16) can travel with you for free (because you are unable to travel alone for medical reasons)."

Clearly the Companion Pass is intended for people who need someone to travel with them - and not just for company.
I say again, if someone needs a companion for medical reasons, they shouldn't be out on public transport without one...

Take my mother for instance who is her 70,s and is generally well but has bad arthritis and most days ok to travel in the bus on her own but there are times she definitely needs someone to travel with her ...this is the reason for companion pass ...not all elderly people are going to be sick all the time but when they are they definitely need someone with them ... deeming her medical unfit to travel alone on her pass would definitely take away what little freedom she currently has..

Peppa Pig

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that a carer gets a pass in their own right, but a companion pass is attached to the ftp holders card. In other words the companion cannot travel without the ftp holder.

Yes, a carer has their own pass and can travel whenever. The companion to a FT+C card can only accompany the actual card holder.

BowWow wrote:

This from the Dept website - "If FT+C is written on your Public Services Card a companion (over 16) can travel with you for free (because you are unable to travel alone for medical reasons)."

That's fairly explicit, all right, didn't realise that. I got one when I moved to an invalidity pension, the medical stuff or info requested never covered travelling alone. I was a bit surprised when it arrived with the FT+C on it.

Cookie_Monster

Getting the proper credit card style cards out there should be a priority. Cut out any fraudulent use and get proper statistics on usage and patterns to be able to assess the real impact it has is key to dictating any other changes in costs or usage restrictions or further provisions.

Jem72

How about any travel required to attend hospital appointments being reimbursed by the HSE? The HSE have done a huge amount of centralisation of services over the last 10 years which is pushing costs onto either patients or transport companies.

The nub of the issue for Irish Rail is that Free Travel accounts for about 12 or 13% of the passengers / costs while the income only covers about 7% of the budget. This disparity needs to be resolved one way or the other.

gctest50

Jem72 wrote: »

The nub of the issue for Irish Rail is that Free Travel accounts for about 12 or 13% of the passengers / costs while the income only covers about 7% of the budget. This disparity needs to be resolved one way or the other.

The bus/Luas would be going anyway - only really costs if a "paying" customer is left behind

Carawaystick

BowWow wrote: »

Clearly the Companion Pass is intended for people who need someone to travel with them - and not just for company.
I say again, if someone needs a companion for medical reasons, they shouldn't be out on public transport without one...

There is a huge range of public transport options covered under the free travel scheme.
It is entirely plausible a person does not need a companion to go on the bus to the shops, but does need a companion to go to Dublin on the train.
Getting on and off trains on curved platforms being one glaringly obvious issue.

Jem72

gctest50 wrote: »

The bus/Luas would be going anyway - only really costs if a "paying" customer is left behind

This argument applies to an extent at off-peak times but as capacity planning is based around peak loading, the cost is not free. Paying customers will avoid travelling or use the car due to overcrowding.

In many cases, extra buses have to be put on and train capacity has to be increased at peak times.

Maybe they should just take everyone for free on a bus if there are empty seats since the bus is going anyway.

Emme

I get the Waterford train to Dublin every morning and get on in Carlow at 7.08 or 7.59. The trains seems to get fuller every morning and it is not unusual for people to have to stand from Newbridge and often Athy. A good proportion of travellers on the 7.59 are pensioners. They get this train instead of the 8.58 because the 8.58 is already full to capacity when it gets to Carlow. Most seem to travelling for a "day out" which is fair enough.

However commuters who are paying thousands per year (even with taxsaver benefits) for a train ticket often have to stand. They arrive to work exhausted and their productivity is compromised. They also get sick more often. This has a negative impact on business.

The fact is there are not enough trains on the Waterford line to support unlimited travel for commuters and pensioners. Iarnrod Eireann are unable to put on more trains because of a lack of resources. The lack of resources could also be addressed by moving jobs outside the capital city to rural cities/towns such as Kilkenny, Naas and Portlaoise. Portlaoise is on another train line but commuters on that line suffer similar problems with crowded trains.

Until the lack of resources is resolved I am putting forward a modest proposal. Free travel pass holders should only be able to travel on off-peak trains unless they can prove they are going to a medical appointment or seeing somebody who is very ill in hospital.

If they are able-bodied and well able to get around they should not get free travel for someone to travel with them unless that person also qualifies for a free travel pass. At the moment they are taking up seats on commuter trains that are badly needed by beleaguered exhausted workers who cannot get suitable employment nearer to where they live.

This modest proposal may raise a few hackles but it is not fair to expect taxpayers who pay thousands for a train ticket to fund free travel passes for those who take up seats leaving paying passengers to stand! Why can't these people have a day out in Kilkenny or Waterford? These cities have lots to offer and if the free travel pass holders spent their money there they would support the local economy and keep train seats free for those who are paying for them and need them to get to work.

munchkin_utd

the one argument against would be that the pensioners need to have peak morning travel to make a hospital appointment.
You'd need to cater for that somehow, maybe that they bring their referal letter or something and then an exemption is made for them in that particular instance.

But yes, you'd have to say that its sensible to have people travelling for free not increasing to overcrowding, and if the scheme is based on pensioners getting free spins as there's a seat going free anyhow, then it should be tailored to that, i.e. off peak services only where trains are often ferrying air about the place.

BTW, theres a rail review just launched so best make your views heard there, not here.

Emme

munchkin_utd wrote: »

BTW, theres a rail review just launched so best make your views heard there, not here.

Are you a mod? If so could you please move the train to the rail review.

hytrogen

Ask yourself these questions when you come to retire and see what you say then when you're travelling up to see the grandkids or travelling up to the big smoke for a hospital appointment.
A public service is a service for all people without discrimination of race, age, sex, ethics, etc.
A counter to your seating issue is there are designated seating for assisted needs or restricted mobility users on all public transport. If they aren't in those seats it's probably because some pleb has selfishly taken up the seat and has refused to give it up for that elderly person in your seat.
So instead of lobbying for discrimination of a should-be respected group of society how about lobbying for an improved and more frequent service?! Because according to the spin doctors and antisocial anti-brit-empire movements (see western rail corridor thread for examples) "...nobody uses the trains..." and "...Irish rail are hemorrhaging money despite being subsidised.." is just some of the rhetoric being slapped around lately.

Carawaystick

Emme wrote: »

However commuters who are paying thousands per year (even with taxsaver benefits) for a train ticket often have to stand.

I'll return to this point below

Emme wrote: »

They arrive to work exhausted and their productivity is compromised. They also get sick more often. This has a negative impact on business.

They get sick more than the pensioners?

Emme wrote: »

The fact is there are not enough trains on the Waterford line to support unlimited travel for commuters and pensioners.

The fact is there is not an unlimited number of people.

Emme wrote: »

Until the lack of resources is resolved I am putting forward a modest proposal. Free travel pass holders should only be able to travel on off-peak trains unless they can prove they are going to a medical appointment or seeing somebody who is very ill in hospital.

How could this possibly comply with data protection rules? Consent to share data has to be given freely. A ticket checker has no business knowing the medical details of a passenger, or even more rediculously, a third party in hospital.

Emme wrote: »

If they are able-bodied and well able to get around they should not get free travel for someone to travel with them unless that person also qualifies for a free travel pass. At the moment they are taking up seats on commuter trains that are badly needed by beleaguered exhausted workers who cannot get suitable employment nearer to where they live.

Commuter trains have people standing all around the world at peak times.

Emme wrote: »

This modest proposal may raise a few hackles but it is not fair to expect taxpayers who pay thousands for a train ticket to fund free travel passes for those who take up seats leaving paying passengers to stand!

How do you know the pensioners pay no tax? They pay income tax and a reduced rate of usc, if their income is above the limits, vat, excise, and indirect taxes. Also the bottom 10% of population pay the second highest amount of their income in taxes in Ireland, once all taxes are included, not just income taxes.

Returning to your first point, it seems you have no problem with getting a subsidy from the exchequer for your train ticket, and just begrudge others getting a better subsidy. Should self employed people who pay the full price of season tickets get a seat ahead of the employees getting a tax rebate on their season tickets?

murphaph

Just for some international context: Over here (Berlin) there is no such thing as a free travel pass for OAPs. They get a discounted ticket, more steeply discounted if they take a ticket that does not allow travel during the morning rush (no restriction in the evenings). Disabled passes are also "graded", so a severely disabled person gets free travel, whilst somebody with a minor disability pays a reduced rate for their monthly ticket. These passes are only valid on Berlin local and regional public transport, not national bus or rail services.

There is no assumption made here that an OAP = someone who can't afford to pay for their own ticket. I think this is reasonable.

magicbastarder

Emme wrote: »

However commuters who are paying thousands per year (even with taxsaver benefits) for a train ticket often have to stand. They arrive to work exhausted and their productivity is compromised. They also get sick more often. This has a negative impact on business.

that's a hell of a conclusion to draw from the fact that someone may have had to stand for half an hour or an hour.
if they're exhausted from this amount of effort, i'm not surprised they get sick more often.

an aside, the repeated use of 'modest proposal' gave me a chuckle.

punisher5112

This is how passes use to work. There were different colour ones for different reasons.

Some were for off peak.

It really should be means tested anyway to be honest.

Drug addicts also get unlimited free travel so the whole system is crazy.

Emme

hytrogen wrote: »

Ask yourself these questions when you come to retire and see what you say then when you're travelling up to see the grandkids or travelling up to the big smoke for a hospital appointment.
A public service is a service for all people without discrimination of race, age, sex, ethics, etc.
A counter to your seating issue is there are designated seating for assisted needs or restricted mobility users on all public transport. If they aren't in those seats it's probably because some pleb has selfishly taken up the seat and has refused to give it up for that elderly person in your seat.
So instead of lobbying for discrimination of a should-be respected group of society how about lobbying for an improved and more frequent service?! Because according to the spin doctors and antisocial anti-brit-empire movements (see western rail corridor thread for examples) "...nobody uses the trains..." and "...Irish rail are hemorrhaging money despite being subsidised.." is just some of the rhetoric being slapped around lately.

I said there should be an option for travel pass holders who are travelling for medical appointments - hospital, consultant, opthalmologist etc.

People who commute to work pay thousands of euro for an annual ticket. It is not unreasonable for them to expect to travel to and from work in safety for that. Standing for an hour from Carlow, Athy or indeed Portlaoise is not safety. We are the ones who are working, paying taxes and contributing to the pot that pays for the free travel.

It's all very well offering free travel passes but if there isn't the capacity for the hordes who want to use them they're pointless. If train travel is a public service for all then there should be reasonable capacity for all. I am sure that travel pass holders would prefer to travel on later off peak trains where possible but due to overcrowding they have to travel on commuter trains. There isn't the capacity on trains to accommodate travel pass holders and commuters. Standing for 20 minutes on a train is reasonable, standing for an hour is not. There's a big difference between standing for 20 minutes on a train each way to standing for an hour on a train each way.

The Taxsaver offer makes train travel more attractive to commuters for economic reasons. The alternative would be more people on already overcrowded roads. Having said that, carpooling is starting to look good.

There are other contributory factors such as the policy of cramming as many businesses and services as possible into Dublin. It has got to the point where roads and public transport to Dublin are crammed beyond their capacity. Overcrowded trains are just one facet of the problem. Overpriced housing is another which isn't relevant to this thread but then again if people could afford to live nearer their place of work they wouldn't be putting themselves through the hell of a long train commute.

How do you know somebody on a train is a pleb?

hytrogen

murphaph wrote:

Just for some international context: Over here (Berlin) there is no such thing as a free travel pass for OAPs. They get a discounted ticket, more steeply discounted if they take a ticket that does not allow travel during the morning rush (no restriction in the evenings). Disabled passes are also "graded", so a severely disabled person gets free travel, whilst somebody with a minor disability pays a reduced rate for their monthly ticket. These passes are only valid on Berlin local and regional public transport, not national bus or rail services.

With respect and not to de-rail the thread (see what I did there?) Berlin imao is the most inaccessible capital city in Europe, very unfriendly unaccommodating to special needs, restricted mobility access in terms of ramps, lifts, special pavements, etc. I have ever seen on a public transport network. I visited there during the summer. The signage, signalling paving surface, platforms to trains / trams, buses, everything was very unaccommodating overall. Some would view as a deterrent, even discriminatory to those with special needs or elderly tourists. So I'm not surprised with the ticketing principals to conform to these observations..

Gatling

Emme wrote: »

It's all very well offering free travel passes but if there isn't the capacity for the hordes who want to use them they're pointless. There isn't the capacity on trains to accommodate travel pass holders and commuters.

How do you know somebody on a train is a pleb?

Oh the barbarians .

Not sure what the pleb question is.

magicbastarder

just in case the OP is not aware of the understanding many people take of the phrase 'a modest proposal':

In English writing, the phrase "a modest proposal" is now conventionally an allusion to this style of straight-faced satire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

if the OP is familiar with that use and was deliberately hinting at it, that throws the question into a different light.

hytrogen

Emme wrote:

It's all very well offering free travel passes but if there isn't the capacity for the hordes who want to use them they're pointless. If train travel is a public service for all then there should be reasonable capacity for all. I am sure that travel pass holders would prefer to travel on later off peak trains where possible but due to overcrowding they have to travel on commuter trains. There isn't the capacity on trains to accommodate travel pass holders and commuters.

If the capacity isn't there then you need to lobby for more capacity, not discriminate against a minority group who use the service, more frequent services would definitely contribute to easing that burden.

Emme wrote:

How do you know somebody on a train is a pleb?

Sure you see the same kind of plebs on buses and trams who don't give up their seat to people with special needs, elderly or disabled access / restricted mobility needs. There's a reason the big blue sticker is beside that seat, it's to allow those needing the seat to exit the carriage more efficiently and not delay the service departing.

Emme

magicbastarder wrote: »

just in case the OP is not aware of the understanding many people take of the phrase 'a modest proposal':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

if the OP is familiar with that use and was deliberately hinting at it, that throws the question into a different light.

I am aware of this - it originates from Swift's pamphlet "A Modest Proposal" suggesting that the poor of 17th century Dublin eat their babies because they couldn't afford food. However I still want to bring attention to the following:

Inadequate capacity on trains, especially on the Waterford line
Travel pass holders being forced to take commuter trains because of overcrowding on off peak-trains
The policy of locating all businesses in Dublin with all its adverse effects - roads clogged up so much that there is at least one crash every day on the M50 and/or M7, housing that is unaffordable for the average working family, overcrowded public transport to Dublin

Lest anyone say "look at London, people suffer worse with the rail system there" we are no longer subjects of the Crown so we do not have to follow the British example on everything.

pc7

I don't believe anything should be entirely free, be it travel, medical cards etc. A small/nominal amount should have to be paid to say travel on the train, even 50c. Same for doctors appointments with medical cards, even €1.

Emme

hytrogen wrote: »

If the capacity isn't there then you need to lobby for more capacity, not discriminate against a minority group who use the service, more frequent services would definitely contribute to easing that burden.


Sure you see the same kind of plebs on buses and trams who don't give up their seat to people with special needs, elderly or disabled access / restricted mobility needs. There's a reason the big blue sticker is beside that seat, it's to allow those needing the seat to exit the carriage more efficiently and not delay the service departing.

With respect, the people you refer to as plebs don't usually get up early enough to take morning commuter trains. They are not taking up seats at 7am or 8am.

hytrogen

Emme wrote:

People who commute to work pay thousands of euro for an annual ticket..... It's all very well offering free travel passes but....

Those elderly with the free travel pass have paid the same taxes and fares as you are now in principal. Those contributions that they paid then was to go towards them being able to use the services now for free as a reward for their positive contributions to society, as you're presently doing. Of course funds have since been squandered tralala and here we are with over crowded under capacity and under funded services as you report (thumbs up and high fives all around, I'm agreeing with you!)

hytrogen

Emme wrote:

With respect, the people you refer to as plebs don't usually get up early enough to take morning commuter trains. They are not taking up seats at 7am or 8am.

True those at that hour are the ones that the coffee hasn't kicked in yet :P

gctest50

Emme wrote: »

Inadequate capacity on trains, especially on the Waterford line

.

Just add on a few more carriages ?

magicbastarder

Emme wrote: »

The policy of locating all businesses in Dublin

whose policy is this?