Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

You are obsessed with my Unionism.

No, I'm intrigued by what motivated the massive own goal unionists helped bring about.

This is about Brexit

On an Irish dominated discussion site and a UI may well be a consequence.

stop talking about a United Ireland.

Back-seat modding is against the charter.

It isn't happening.

Oh it's happening alright, it's just a matter of time and I believe the pro-Brexit vote in Britain (aided by unionists) has helped bring that date far further forward than it might have been before.

steddyeddy

PopePalpatine wrote: »

And I'd imagine he'd want the USA to do the same with a desperate post-Brexit UK.

Wilbur Ross, Trumps trade secretary actually said the US should use Brexit to steal trade from the UK. He'll be the one negotiating with the UK, not Trump.

steddyeddy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How do you work that out?

Canada and the US both benefit from their deal.

The new trade secretary said that they should use Brexit to steal trade from the UK. That's how it works.

steddyeddy

RobertKK wrote: »

Brexit is such a farce.

Nigel Farage happy over today's events when it is bad for the UK. Hard Brexit is on the cards which is not good for the UK. It might be bad in one way for Ireland but good in other ways.
The EU is where it is at in Europe, countries like Norway and Switzerland pay into the EU for benefits. The irony is the UK will have to do the same and go from having a say to no say if they want to remain in the single market, and that means the free movement of people.
The people who voted for Brexit will not win what they argued.
The EU has Norway and Switzerland to consider and will not offer the UK a deal that would be superior to what other countries who are not in the EU get in Europe.
Brexit was not very clever, and it has made the UK look stupid - like headless chickens running around at the moment, and don't appear to know what they are doing.
The EU will be no pushover, and the UK is the minor party in all of this and the UK does not go into negotiations from a position of strength.

Nigel Farage is making things worse for the UK.

Iwasfrozen

steddyeddy wrote: »

The new trade secretary said that they should use Brexit to steal trade from the UK. That's how it works.

Nah, both Mexico and Canada have free trade deals with the US.

Clearly having a smaller economy does not preclude one from having a free trade deal with the US.

As I said already, yon dude's response doesn't contradict his boss's enthusiastic support for a trade deal with the UK.

RobertKK

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nah, both Mexico and Canada have free trade deals with the US.

Clearly having a smaller economy does not preclude one from having a free trade deal with the US.

As I said already, yon dude's response doesn't contradict his boss's enthusiastic support for a trade deal with the UK.

NAFTA, which Trump has said is a disaster and he will do away with.
Already talking of tariffs.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

You are obsessed with my Unionism. This is about Brexit, stop talking about a United Ireland. It isn't happening.

a united ireland is going to happen, it's a case of when and not if. not long now and the dream will be realised.

Iwasfrozen

RobertKK wrote: »

NAFTA, which Trump has said is a disaster and he will do away with.
Already talking of tariffs.

Sure, because Mexico is part of NAFTA. He hasn't said anything about tarffing Canada and has expressed his support for a trade deal with the UK.

Iwasfrozen

end of the road wrote: »

a united ireland is going to happen, it's a case of when and not if. not long now and the dream will be realised.

That sounds like a religious mantra.

steddyeddy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nah, both Mexico and Canada have free trade deals with the US.

Clearly having a smaller economy does not preclude one from having a free trade deal with the US.

As I said already, yon dude's response doesn't contradict his boss's enthusiastic support for a trade deal with the UK.

One dude is the new secretary of trade.

Capt'n Midnight

RobertKK wrote: »

Nigel Farage happy over today's events when it is bad for the UK.

Is it true that you can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep ?

Today's other Nigel-News

Former aide to Nigel Farage admits fraud in the US And Farage distances himself

"He was a volunteer. He was unpaid. He was helping me do stuff. He'd been part of our party for a couple of years.

"We never had any suspicions about him at all. He faced 21 charges in America, 20 have been dropped. He's pleaded guilty to a C-grade felony. Listen, I can't be responsible for what everyone around me does."

"Listen, I can't be responsible for what everyone around me does"

Iwasfrozen

steddyeddy wrote: »

One dude is the new secretary of trade.

I wrote "yon", short for yonder.

Like I said, his comments are both true and don't contradict his boss's enthusiastic support for a deal with the UK.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

what do they think will happen? why did the majority vote to leave the eu?

To return the country to an imagined past.

A Little Pony

A Little Pony wrote: »

Working for his country, it should be seen as an absolute honour. He should respect the will of the people and get on with it. Stop trying to bend and weave and do everything to stall. Someone a few pages back said reverse this decision, what is that all about?

If the Irish people voted on something, should it be ignored and the will of the people go unheard? It is farcical, we might as well not have a democracy, you vote for something and it is ignored, makes the vote utterly useless.

You must be forgetting Nice 2 & Lisbon 2 here then. Theres nothing wrong with having a 2nd referendum on something if theres a widespread perception that the decision arrived at subsequently meant a worse outcome. Brexit is a trainwreck which was sold on menu of lies & deception to a gullible electorate. Reverse it before its too late.

RobertKK

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Sure, because Mexico is part of NAFTA. He hasn't said anything about tarffing Canada and has expressed his support for a trade deal with the UK.

Canada is not a low wage economy like Mexico, where US jobs are mostly going to.
An end to NAFTA would be an end to free trade for all. He wants to re-negotiate it.

A trade deal does not necessarily mean free trade. Ireland despite all our beef, would have had to allow US beef in, but the US/EU trade deal now looks dead.

A trade deal does not mean good outcomes for everyone, as people in the rust belt in the US found out under NAFTA, which helped elect Trump.

Iwasfrozen

RobertKK wrote: »

Canada is not a low wage economy like Mexico, where US jobs are mostly going to.
An end to NAFTA would be an end to free trade for all. He wants to re-negotiate it.

A trade deal does not necessarily mean free trade. Ireland despite all our beef, would have had to allow US beef in ,but the US/EU trade deal now looks dead.

A trade deal does not mean good outcomes for everyone, as people in the rust belt in the US found out under NAFTA, which helped elect Trump.

Yep, which is why a free trade deal between the US and the UK is possible. The UK is not a low wage economy and will not be a threat to US jobs like Mexico is.

First Up

RobertKK wrote:

A trade deal does not mean good outcomes for everyone, as people in the rust belt in the US found out under NAFTA, which helped elect Trump.

Which rust belt industries were hurt by NAFTA?

RobertKK

First Up wrote: »

Which rust belt industries were hurt by NAFTA?

Car manufacturing.
General manufacturing jobs.

RobertKK

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yep, which is why a free trade deal between the US and the UK is possible. The UK is not a low wage economy and will not be a threat to US jobs like Mexico is.

What is to stop the UK lowering it's corporation tax even further than proposed?
Give big incentives?
The result being the UK taking possible US jobs.

There is going to be no free lunch.

First Up

RobertKK wrote:

Car manufacturing. General manufacturing jobs.

Far more lost to China (who lend the US the money to buy the stuff back) and in most sectors robotics and automation have decimated the size of workforces.
NAFTA is a sideshow, although one well exploited by Trump.

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

To return the country to an imagined past.

You post some credible stuff, but then post something like that.

Care to explain why Slough and Bradford voted to leave, are they pining for the days of empire?

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

Care to explain why Slough and Bradford voted to leave, are they pining for the days of empire?

You would have to ask them. Not everyone has the same imaginary past. Slough might be nostalgic for "Peak Blighty" as the late Adrian Gill memorably called it.

Bradford's large Asian community likely voted to keep out competition from East Europeans. That was a common feature - dog eat dog at the rough end of the food chain.

Iwasfrozen

RobertKK wrote: »

What is to stop the UK lowering it's corporation tax even further than proposed?
Give big incentives?
The result being the UK taking possible US jobs.

There is going to be no free lunch.

An agreement I assume.

No free lunch, but UK access to the US alone would give it access to a larger market than the EU.

Let the EU squabble, the UK can return to its roots as a maritime trading nation.

RasTa

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

An agreement I assume.

No free lunch, but UK access to the US alone would give it access to a larger market than the EU.

Let the EU squabble, the UK can return to its roots as a maritime trading nation.

Trading what?

Nate--IRL--

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

An agreement I assume.

No free lunch, but UK access to the US alone would give it access to a larger market than the EU.
.

What does "Access" mean? Does it have none at the moment?

Nate

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

You would have to ask them. Not everyone has the same imaginary past. Slough might be nostalgic for "Peak Blighty" as the late Adrian Gill memorably called it.

Bradford's large Asian community likely voted to keep out competition from East Europeans. That was a common feature - dog eat dog at the rough end of the food chain.

Aah, OK. So you don't know then.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

Aah, OK. So you don't know then.

Maybe. More importantly, neither do they.

Capt'n Midnight

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A majority voted to leave.

That's not relevant, the government isn't going to ignore the result.

A majority voted for Clinton.

But I think you'll find a good few used the vote as an opinion poll about the government. And the large number of people who didn't vote because everyone thought remain would win.



Anyway we still don't know what Brexit is , apart from it being the colours used by many EU countries Vive la France !


And it's not even Brexit unless they ditch Norn Iron.


If the UK leaves the EU what's to stop the EU doing stuff like dumping steel into the UK ?

FrancieBrady

First Up wrote: »

Maybe. More importantly, neither do they.

It's funny that those flat out lambasting others for not accepting the result are so defensive of the core reason the result came about. A smörgåsbord of misinformation, ignorance, false pride with a wee pinch of genuine beliefs but no defined way forward.

First Up

Iwasfrozen wrote:

No free lunch, but UK access to the US alone would give it access to a larger market than the EU.

I wonder what you mean by "access"?

The US is currently the UK's largest single export market and benefits from the relatively low tarrifs between the EU and US. When (if) the TTIP is concluded, tarrifs in both directions will be lower still.

But the UK will be out of the EU by then and the US trade negotiator has said that the UK will be placed on the same (higher) tarrif regime as China and India.

Of course they might be able to negotiate a better deal. Obama (and others) have said that could take up to ten years but maybe Trump will speed it up a bit.