Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

But EU applications are down this year. Nearly 20% in some cases. There is no good scenario for universities post Brexit.

Were they down pre or post referendum?

FrancieBrady

Still downplaying Fred? :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Still downplaying Fred? :rolleyes:

No, it's called asking a question.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, it's called asking a question.

Silly me!

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

Were they down pre or post referendum?

Post. The window for applications opens in September.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Were they down pre or post referendum?

Both. Pre referendum vote during the nasty campaign and post vote. Brexit isn't a good thing for academia and especially science.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Both. Pre referendum vote during the nasty campaign and post vote. Brexit isn't a good thing for academia and especially science.

It's not good for a lot of things.

I was just curious as to whether or not the hike in fees had created a general down turn and if it was a trend, rather than a reaction. It seems non Russell group universities have seen a decline over the past few years.

Capt'n Midnight

catbear wrote: »

Very true, tata steel held off on their plan to close port Talbot. They could see an opportunity for Indian work conditions to be brought in. Empire comes home.

The huge reduction in the real values of wages and raw materials and other Sterling costs will have helped. Of course that will mean nothing if the EU blocks Chinese dumping steel now that the UK can't lobby. The Chinese will dump into the UK instead.

Unpossible wrote: »

It will also probably mean the lowering of standards and quality, not just to satisfy India and China, but the USA as well.
Everytime I visit China I'm reminded how lucky we are to have EU standards here.
The other way to promote British industry is by reducing costs by scrapping the rights workers have gained through the EU.

Both of these would be very worrying to me if I were a British worker.

Kitemark and such standards will be kept. The UK will still supply quality goods and in the case of things like Gas Turbines will still be a world leader. However, at the other end of the scale cleaners and labourers will probably start to see the minimum wage, EU working time directive, unemployment benefits slowly worsen from a death of a thousand cuts.

Unemployment benefits won't be cut, they will be re-defined. Anyone remember when they became Job Seekers ?

Also expect something like JobBridge but where employers will take the complete píss.

First Up

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The huge reduction in the real values of wages and raw materials and other Sterling costs will have helped. Of course that will mean nothing if the EU blocks Chinese dumping steel now that the UK can't lobby. The Chinese will dump into the UK instead.

Dumping is a WTO competence. There is a global issue of excess steel production - the UK is not the only victim, nor is China the only perpetrator. It is complicated and will take time but the steel industry is in decline worldwide.

Meanwhile the EU has a 16% tarriff on Chinese steel, as part of the wider EU-China trade deal. The UK can bump that up if it likes but will face higher tarriffs on stuff they want to sell to China if they do.

No doubt Port Talbot was one of the reasons Wales voted Brexit but they were mis-informed and misled in thinking it would help.

Fratton Fred

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Kitemark and such standards will be kept. The UK will still supply quality goods and in the case of things like Gas Turbines will still be a world leader. However, at the other end of the scale cleaners and labourers will probably start to see the minimum wage, EU working time directive, unemployment benefits slowly worsen from a death of a thousand cuts.

The government already ahs the ability to cut minimum wage, Brexit won't affect that. Most responsible employers are already paying living wage anyway.

I'm not sure if you've ever tried employing a cleaner in the south of England, but you certainly won't get one for £7.20 an hour.

Capt'n Midnight

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm not sure if you've ever tried employing a cleaner in the south of England, but you certainly won't get one for £7.20 an hour.

How much do cleaners get in the areas that voted for Brexit ?

demfad

First Up wrote: »

Meanwhile the EU has a 16% tarriff on Chinese steel, as part of the wider EU-China trade deal. The UK can bump that up if it likes but will face higher tarriffs on stuff they want to sell to China if they do.

They cant bump it up. They must use the exact same tariffs as they used under the EU or else China or any other nation will initiate a trade dispute with them. Liam Fox has already admitted this.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/12/06/very-quietly-liam-fox-admits-the-brexit-lie

"In order to minimise disruption to global trade as we leave the EU, over the coming period the government will prepare the necessary draft schedules which replicate as far as possible our current obligations." [italics added] (Liam Fox)

It is a startling admission. The UK's extracted WTO schedules will "replicate as far as possible" it's current status. So we'll keep the special rule for oranges, even though we don't grow them. We will continue to protect a sugar process designed for Europe and continue failing to protect one used by one of our major companies, despite its years of lobbying to change the system.

In short, despite all the sound and the fury, despite all the attacks against immigrants and the threats against EU citizens in the UK, despite all the Brexit votes and the Richmond rebellions and the sudden change in this country's political dynamic, the government is not aiming to change anything of any substance. Britain will keep the exact EU tariff system which Brexiters for so long said was strangling it.

First Up

demfad wrote:

They cant bump it up. They must use the exact same tariffs as they used under the EU or else China or any other nation will initiate a trade dispute with them. Liam Fox has already admitted this.

Which is what I said. China would retaliate.

demfad

First Up wrote: »

Which is what I said. China would retaliate.

It wouldn't be retaliation. There would be an official dispute started which would be resolved by the WTO in China's favour as the British have changed their rates. The British wont dare change any of the rates and Liam Fox has indicated this. The British will have to come up with their own quotas which will be a mine field and again they will have to err on the side of the other States.

steddyeddy

The Brexit exodus begins. The Financial Times reports that Llyod's will definitely be moving part of it's operations out of the UK.

Lloyd’s of London has become one of the first major City businesses to put a timetable on plans to move a part of its operations to the EU in preparation for Brexit.

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The 328-year-old insurance market is in the throes of choosing a destination from a short list of five and is likely to put a proposal to its members by February next year.

The market will then seek regulatory clearance for the subsidiary, which will be used to conduct business around the EU using the “passporting” system. This allows financial services businesses to conduct trade across the bloc from a single location.

Lloyd’s chairman, John Nelson, said that the market had decided it needed to act sooner rather than later to protect the 11 per cent of its revenues coming from Europe.

“Insurance is a mobile business,” he said. “In common with other financial institutions, we need to put our plans in place — at least on a precautionary basis.”

Lloyd’s preferred option remains to keep its European operations concentrated in London. It is possible that the market might shelve its relocation plans if a “no change” deal is struck between the EU and London allowing British financial businesses to trade freely through the single market.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Brexit exodus begins. The Financial Times reports that Llyod's will definitely be moving part of it's operations out of the UK.

I'm surprised only 11% of their business comes from within the eu. Mind you, most ships these days seem to be registered in Panama or the Bahamas

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm surprised only 11% of their business comes from within the eu. Mind you, most ships these days seem to be registered in Panama or the Bahamas

Yes I'm surprised too. I'm also surprised they're prepared to move some operations, at significant cost in order to shield 11% of their business. Worrying if a lot of companies do more than 11% in the EU.

ohnonotgmail

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes I'm surprised too. I'm also surprised they're prepared to move some operations, at significant cost in order to shield 11% of their business. Worrying if a lot of companies do more than 11% in the EU.

it may only be 11% but it still represents a couple of billion worth of insurance business.

steddyeddy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it may only be 11% but it still represents a couple of billion worth of insurance business.

And a lot of other companies will be more dependent on EU business. I think they need to stop Brexit now.

MrPudding

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm surprised only 11% of their business comes from within the eu. Mind you, most ships these days seem to be registered in Panama or the Bahamas

I am not sure the location of the ship's registration is relevant to where the insurance is bought. Additionally, whilst the ship itself will obviously be insured, the cargo is likely to be separately insured, as are the crew, and given that some ship will never even visit the countries they are registered to (Mongolia for example), it would seem there is a lot more to the maritime insurance market, which is only a part of what Lloyds does, than where the ship is registered. You might have a German-owned boat, registered in Mongolia, leased to a Spanish company, with a Swedish Captain and a Russian crew, with cargo from a company in Spain going to customers in the UK, France and South Africa. Where do you want to insure that!

MrP

Professor Moriarty

steddyeddy wrote: »

And a lot of other companies will be more dependent on EU business. I think they need to stop Brexit now.

The longer this charade continues, the more negative sentiment it will create. Damage has already been done but May blithely carries on regardless in full knowledge. It's treason.

GM228

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-faces-brexit-settlement-bill-of-up-to-16350bn-sky-sources-say-10697402

Ouch

steddyeddy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The longer this charade continues, the more negative sentiment it will create. Damage has already been done but May blithely carries on regardless in full knowledge. It's treason.

I actually think Boris Johnson should be done for treason. He put his own interests ahead of the country's.

Professor Moriarty

steddyeddy wrote: »

I actually think Boris Johnson should be done for treason. He put his own interests ahead of the country's.

Absolutely. In fairness to Fox, though, at least he seems to be ideologically motivated. The rest are craven.

Iwasfrozen

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The longer this charade continues, the more negative sentiment it will create. Damage has already been done but May blithely carries on regardless in full knowledge. It's treason.

It would be more treasonous to ignore the results of a referendum.

Professor Moriarty

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It would be more treasonous to ignore the results of a referendum.

Indeed. Cameron was also selfish and stupid but at least he tried to tell the truth. The people are being sold down the river by the very people who lied during the campaign. They lied then and they're lying now. That's treasonous.

MrPudding

GM228 wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-faces-brexit-settlement-bill-of-up-to-16350bn-sky-sources-say-10697402

Ouch

But hey, at least they got back control.

MrP

Dyr

You'd imagine the large part of that figure is the UK's obligations until 2020 which they would have budgeted for anyway

Obviously if they leave before 2020 they'll lose whatever benefits would have offset that cost

catbear

Never mind the banks, what about the pink wafer biscuits!

A popular brand of pink wafer is under threat after a company went into administration following a "sharp fall" in the value of sterling after Brexit.
Administrator FRP Advisory said a "sustained deterioration" since the EU vote had exacerbated Rivington Biscuits in Wigan's financial difficulties.
The company, which makes Pink Panther wafers, will cut 99 of its 123 staff, keeping 24 while it seeks a buyer.

"The problems were compounded by the sharp decline in the value of the pound against the euro," she said.

This change increased costs for ingredients which Rivington Biscuits import from Europe and escalated their monthly costs, an FRP Advisory spokesman said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-38328388

MrPudding

catbear wrote: »

Never mind the banks, what about the pink wafer biscuits!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-38328388

Always bad to see jobs go. Wigan voted leave, would be interesting to know how the workers losing their jobs voted. Turning that frown upside down, they may have lost their jobs, but at least they got back control.

MrP