Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

Billy86

A Little Pony wrote: »

I think it has been answered plenty of times on this thread about the benefits of leaving the EU are. Certainly the British people saw it that way when they voted to leave on June 23rd and declared it Independence day. The fact that Southern Europe is in an absolute mess and some want the UK to remain in that is baffling.

The European project is over, Weelders is going to be Prime Minister next year, he will push for a referendum on leaving the EU, Le Pen stands an excellent chance of winning and becoming President. A good campaign and she can win that easily, considering the disaster terrorist attacks at the start of the year and last year. 

Italy voted no to constitutional reform, the PM resigned. Major doubt about the future of the country with the Euro currency now. When you look at history when you have so many countries under one banner, it is a struggle to keep it together, the EU is now facing that.

Irish people just panic when they see the EU being in trouble, it is a deep rooted issue with the Irish people having never ruled themselves if you look at history. The Kingdom of England, the British Empire and the European Union. People just lose the plot when they think the institution is in trouble. The Dail is more of an administrator and not a government.

Economics and cultural genocide is why the EU will fall,

  http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/the-failure-of-the-euro

This is just a long way of this poster saying they don't know. Don't think they care either, or are in any way genuine about it. It's far more likely they're just seeking attention and trying to get reactions from their posts on this issue and the US election - in neither are they able whatsoever to talk about any kind of policy or anything in depth beyond tabloid headline type stuff (not even tabloid article depth - just the headline). The odd time they even attempt to, they just put their foot in their own mouth by making claims like being strongly in favour of high levels of Muslim immigration despite that being completely against their supposed views whenever Muslims are brought up.

Basically, their posts consistently remind me of this:

demfad

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How so other countries have free access do they not ? It's somewhat a myth that there is only free access for EU members. It can be negotiated like others. Unless I have taken Crazy pills.

Can you please name the countries you think have free access instead of speculating?
Switzerland has but they have to pay into the EU and they have to accept the free movement of people.

Unpossible

Peregrinus wrote: »

And some of the muc-talked-of trade agreements that, Brexiters like to point out, the UK will be free to enter into are with the likes of China, India and so on. So if Brexiters' dreams are realised, there's likely to be greater penetration of cheap foreign goods, not less. If imports do go down, it will be because of the decline in sterling.

It will also probably mean the lowering of standards and quality, not just to satisfy India and China, but the USA as well.
Everytime I visit China I'm reminded how lucky we are to have EU standards here.
The other way to promote British industry is by reducing costs by scrapping the rights workers have gained through the EU.

Both of these would be very worrying to me if I were a British worker.

catbear

Unpossible wrote: »

Peregrinus wrote: »

And some of the muc-talked-of trade agreements that, Brexiters like to point out, the UK will be free to enter into are with the likes of China, India and so on. So if Brexiters' dreams are realised, there's likely to be greater penetration of cheap foreign goods, not less. If imports do go down, it will be because of the decline in sterling.

It will also probably mean the lowering of standards and quality, not just to satisfy India and China, but the USA as well.
Everytime I visit China I'm reminded how lucky we are to have EU standards here.
The other way to promote British industry is by reducing costs by scrapping the rights workers have gained through the EU.

Both of these would be very worrying to me if I were a British worker.

Very true, tata steel held off on their plan to close port Talbot. They could see an opportunity for Indian work conditions to be brought in. Empire comes home.

Fratton Fred

catbear wrote: »

Very true, tata steel held off on their plan to close port Talbot. They could see an opportunity for Indian work conditions to be brought in. Empire comes home.

could you provide evidence of that?

How about we tie possession of an Irish passport with votes for Irish reunification?

It's a bit of a joke if Billy Sam Billyson can get an EU passport by virtue of his Irish citizenship, when he has no loyalty to the ideals of the very same state that gives him this passport.

It's a complete pisstake actually, especially given that so many of these same loyalists voted against staying in the EU. They should suffer the consequences and not be bailed out by virtue of their Irish passport. With Brexit that passport is gold dust, and the British passport is a pain in the arse, and we should value it much more than we're currently doing.

A Little Pony

Deleted User wrote: »

How about we tie possession of an Irish passport with votes for Irish reunification?

It's a bit of a joke if Billy Sam Billyson can get an EU passport by virtue of his Irish citizenship, when he has no loyalty to the ideals of the very same state that gives him this passport.

It's a complete pisstake actually, especially given that so many of these same loyalists voted against staying in the EU. They should suffer the consequences and not be bailed out by virtue of their Irish passport. With Brexit that passport is gold dust, and the British passport is a pain in the arse, and we should value it much more than we're currently doing.

Its easier to get an Irish passport, not that I have one but it is convenient more than anything. You are allowed both in Northern Ireland.

A Little Pony

Billy86 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I think it has been answered plenty of times on this thread about the benefits of leaving the EU are. Certainly the British people saw it that way when they voted to leave on June 23rd and declared it Independence day. The fact that Southern Europe is in an absolute mess and some want the UK to remain in that is baffling.

The European project is over, Weelders is going to be Prime Minister next year, he will push for a referendum on leaving the EU, Le Pen stands an excellent chance of winning and becoming President. A good campaign and she can win that easily, considering the disaster terrorist attacks at the start of the year and last year. 

Italy voted no to constitutional reform, the PM resigned. Major doubt about the future of the country with the Euro currency now. When you look at history when you have so many countries under one banner, it is a struggle to keep it together, the EU is now facing that.

Irish people just panic when they see the EU being in trouble, it is a deep rooted issue with the Irish people having never ruled themselves if you look at history. The Kingdom of England, the British Empire and the European Union. People just lose the plot when they think the institution is in trouble. The Dail is more of an administrator and not a government.

Economics and cultural genocide is why the EU will fall,

  http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/the-failure-of-the-euro

This is just a long way of this poster saying they don't know. Don't think they care either, or are in any way genuine about it. It's far more likely they're just seeking attention and trying to get reactions from their posts on this issue and the US election - in neither are they able whatsoever to talk about any kind of policy or anything in depth beyond tabloid headline type stuff (not even tabloid article depth - just the headline). The odd time they even attempt to, they just put their foot in their own mouth by making claims like being strongly in favour of high levels of Muslim immigration despite that being completely against their supposed views whenever Muslims are brought up.

Basically, their posts consistently remind me of this:

I think Einstein would struggle to make head or tail of that post.

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

could you provide evidence of that?

There is evidence of Indian contractors importing Indian workers under Indian working conditions.

It's an old story, but someone tried on, and lost.
I don't expect it to be repeated.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/dec/12/jeevanvasagar
They came to Britain to earn 30p an hour. But they will return home as wealthy men

Chips Lovell

Deleted User wrote: »

How about we tie possession of an Irish passport with votes for Irish reunification?

I'd be happier to issue them with passports if they promised not to vote for union with Northern Ireland.

Billy86

A Little Pony wrote: »

I think Einstein would struggle to make head or tail of that post.

As opposed to yours which are as transparent as can be. "Is there a Seymour Butts here?"

Still interesting to know you're strongly in favour of large scale Muslim immigration to the UK, mind.

FrancieBrady

It must feel like a grim future across many sectors in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/12/uk-halve-international-student-visa-tougher-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Dyr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It must feel like a grim future across many sectors in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/12/uk-halve-international-student-visa-tougher-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Not altogether a bad move. Universities are the upmarket version of english language schools at this stage.

Grayson

Bambi wrote: »

Not altogether a bad move. Universities are the upmarket version of english language schools at this stage.

But they are an industry by themselves. Especially since the UK got rid of free fees. Non EU students pay a fortune. I know of a university here that keeps about 1/4 of engineering places for non EU students because they pay so much in fees they actually subsidise every other student.

steddyeddy

25% of Scottish university research staff are non British EU citizens. If Brexit happens then science here will take a massive downturn.

http://www.nature.com/news/brexit-by-the-numbers-the-fear-of-brain-drain-1.21142

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It must feel like a grim future across many sectors in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/12/uk-halve-international-student-visa-tougher-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

That's pretty shocking. Certainly isolationist politics.

marienbad

Grayson wrote: »

But they are an industry by themselves. Especially since the UK got rid of free fees. Non EU students pay a fortune. I know of a university here that keeps about 1/4 of engineering places for non EU students because they pay so much in fees they actually subsidise every other student.

And the foreign student is so vital the institutions compete ferociously to get them .

I just don't understand the thinking behind this policy . Is it just all about the Conservative Party at this stage ?

Fratton Fred

marienbad wrote: »

And the foreign student is so vital the institutions compete ferociously to get them .

I just don't understand the thinking behind this policy . Is it just all about the Conservative Party at this stage ?

I believe there is a significant amount of abuse of student visas, people getting one and not turning up at the college and effectively disappearing.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's pretty shocking. Certainly isolationist politics.

I would imagine it will send vulnerable institutions into terminal decline, hence the 'grim future'.

marienbad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I believe there is a significant amount of abuse of student visas, people getting one and not turning up at the college and effectively disappearing.

Come on Fred , it is a billion pound revenue stream , of course there are abuses but it doesn't take a sledgehammer to crack a nut .

This is just a variation on the voter id laws in the USA , playing to the base for a non issue .

First Up

marienbad wrote:

Come on Fred , it is a billion pound revenue stream , of course there are abuses but it doesn't take a sledgehammer to crack a nut .

More than a revenue stream - a network of alumni that includes people who reach positions of power and influence that can (and do) help further the UK's interests for many years.

But some drop out or overstay their visas so lets throw the baby out with the bathwater.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I believe there is a significant amount of abuse of student visas, people getting one and not turning up at the college and effectively disappearing.

There is Fred but target the institutions not the student body as a whole.

A Little Pony

Universities are brainwashing institutions these days anyway, full of EU propaganda, Marxist think tanks.

Fratton Fred

marienbad wrote: »

Come on Fred , it is a billion pound revenue stream , of course there are abuses but it doesn't take a sledgehammer to crack a nut .

This is just a variation on the voter id laws in the USA , playing to the base for a non issue .

steddyeddy wrote: »

There is Fred but target the institutions not the student body as a whole.

I didn't say I agreed with it, just that is could be a reason.

I know there were a number of language schools that were basically back door visa agencies, but a lot of these have been shut down (to Ireland's benefit I believe) but halving the number of student visas seems a heavy handed approach.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I didn't say I agreed with it, just that is could be a reason.

I know there were a number of language schools that were basically back door visa agencies, but a lot of these have been shut down (to Ireland's benefit I believe) but halving the number of student visas seems a heavy handed approach.

It's a problem in Ireland too. A certain minister I'd love to name was on the take from one too.

catbear

Well garnering a reputation as a nation with a hostile anti talent in education is not going to do its industry and innovation any favours.

Fratton Fred

catbear wrote: »

Well garnering a reputation as a nation with a hostile anti talent in education is not going to do its industry and innovation any favours.

err, how is trying to cut out visa cheats "Hostile anti talent"?

four of the world's top ten universities are in England. That would suggest the country is pretty pro talent, would it not?

marienbad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

err, how is trying to cut out visa cheats "Hostile anti talent"?

four of the world's top ten universities are in England. That would suggest the country is pretty pro talent, would it not?

The cuts proposed have nothing to do with visa cheats Fred ,

The UK has always been pro talent , that can change and this proposal is a step in that direction.

Fratton Fred

marienbad wrote: »

The cuts proposed have nothing to do with visa cheats Fred ,

The UK has always been pro talent , that can change and this proposal is a step in that direction.

it depends how far they go (according to the Grauniad they are "Considering" it, which means it has been discussed) and how evenly they apply the ruling.

Generally, student Visa applications are down significantly since the new rules were put in place the dodgy schools cut down on. Visa applications for the Russell Group (the top 24 Universities) are up though.

https://www.ft.com/content/2416d676-2679-11e6-8b18-91555f2f4fde

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it depends how far they go (according to the Grauniad they are "Considering" it, which means it has been discussed) and how evenly they apply the ruling.

Generally, student Visa applications are down significantly since the new rules were put in place the dodgy schools cut down on. Visa applications for the Russell Group (the top 24 Universities) are up though.

https://www.ft.com/content/2416d676-2679-11e6-8b18-91555f2f4fde

But EU applications are down this year. Nearly 20% in some cases. There is no good scenario for universities post Brexit.