Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

One of the greatest days I have ever seen was the 23rd June and I won't ever regret my vote to leave. Same with millions of others. We are leaving, get used to it.

You realise you'll be left poorer?

Freedom comes at a price, sometimes it is blood or money.

darkpagandeath

First Up wrote: »

That is not what they are doing.

Yes they are that's why they have to take this case in an EU member state as they cant in the UK.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

Keep dreaming reb.

I'm sure your parents would have said the same if someone told them thier future Deputy First Minister would be a former Provo Commander and the Irish language would be spoken routinely in Stormont.

Didas

A Little Pony wrote: »

Freedom comes at a price, sometimes it is blood or money.

Just posting the word 'freedom' over and over again doesn't mean anything. What specific benefits will you get from Brexit? What particular 'freedoms' do you expect to have post-Brexit that you do not have now?

First Up

A Little Pony wrote:

One of the greatest days I have ever seen was the 23rd June and I won't ever regret my vote to leave. Same with millions of others. We are leaving, get used to it.

I think you are the ones who will need to get used to it but you go wave that flag and everything will be grand.

First Up

darkpagandeath wrote:

Yes they are that's why they have to take this case in an EU member state as they cant in the UK.

Do you understand the case they are taking?

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'm sure your parents would have said the same if someone told them thier future Deputy First Minister would be a former Provo Commander and the Irish language would be spoken routinely in Stormont.

and had a cup of tea with the Queen.

Didas

Deleted User wrote: »

and had a cup of tea with the Queen.

Easier to have a cup of tea with her after her armed forces stopped murdering civilians in NI.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

and had a cup of tea with the Queen.

After blowing up her uncle. These posts encapsulate the North and all its madness.

Capt'n Midnight

wanting your cake and eating it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/10/poll-public-will-not-accept-brexit-worse-off-tim-farron-ukip-lib-dem-yougov?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The British public will not accept a Brexit deal that leaves them worse off financially, a new poll suggests.
...
Just one in 10 would be willing to lose more than £100 a month. Pollster Peter Kellner, the former president of YouGov, said the results suggested that Theresa May “could have real difficulty in delivering a Brexit that satisfies those who voted for it”.
...
Just 5% believe they will be better off, while 28% expect to lose money and 45% do not know – despite Vote Leave’s now infamous pledge that quitting Brussels would boost the public purse by £350m a week.

darkpagandeath

First Up wrote: »

Do you understand the case they are taking?

Explain it then....

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1210/837926-brexit-irish-court/

Effectively the plaintiffs would argue that the EU, and by extension, Ireland, broke its own rules by holding summit meetings without the British prime minister.

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Keep dreaming reb.

I'm sure your parents would have said the same if someone told them thier future Deputy First Minister would be a former Provo Commander and the Irish language would be spoken routinely in Stormont.

Karma has finally caught up with him if the rumours are true. ;)

First Up

darkpagandeath wrote:

Explain it then....

Bringing the case in Ireland is just a mechanism to fast track it to the European Court. The purpose is to make it a legal possibility for the UK to withdraw Article 50 if they don't like the exit deal (which they won't.) As it stands, 50 is irrevocable.

If the case succeeds, it means the UK public can get to vote again but this time the reality of what Brexit means will be a lot clearer.

A Little Pony

Just posting the word 'freedom' over and over again doesn't mean anything. What specific benefits will you get from Brexit? What particular 'freedoms' do you expect to have post-Brexit that you do not have now?

I think it has been answered plenty of times on this thread about the benefits of leaving the EU are. Certainly the British people saw it that way when they voted to leave on June 23rd and declared it Independence day. The fact that Southern Europe is in an absolute mess and some want the UK to remain in that is baffling.

The European project is over, Weelders is going to be Prime Minister next year, he will push for a referendum on leaving the EU, Le Pen stands an excellent chance of winning and becoming President. A good campaign and she can win that easily, considering the disaster terrorist attacks at the start of the year and last year. 

Italy voted no to constitutional reform, the PM resigned. Major doubt about the future of the country with the Euro currency now. When you look at history when you have so many countries under one banner, it is a struggle to keep it together, the EU is now facing that.

Irish people just panic when they see the EU being in trouble, it is a deep rooted issue with the Irish people having never ruled themselves if you look at history. The Kingdom of England, the British Empire and the European Union. People just lose the plot when they think the institution is in trouble. The Dail is more of an administrator and not a government.

Economics and cultural genocide is why the EU will fall,

  http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/the-failure-of-the-euro

First Up

A Little Pony wrote:

I think it has been answered plenty of times on this thread about the benefits of leaving the EU are.

No, we have had plenty of criticism of the EU but we are still waiting for some tangible benefits that stand up to more than a few seconds scrutiny.

Grayson

First Up wrote: »

No, we have had plenty of criticism of the EU but we are still waiting for some tangible benefits that stand up to more than a few seconds scrutiny.

No-one can actually point out to a financial benefit that the UK will have if they leave. Of course no-one can actually say what brexit will be like so it's understandable that they can't say what the financial benefits will be. Still I haven't really seen any potential benefits.


http://i.imgur.com/CpEE96e.gif

darkpagandeath

Grayson wrote: »

No-one can actually point out to a financial benefit that the UK will have if they leave. Of course no-one can actually say what brexit will be like so it's understandable that they can't say what the financial benefits will be. Still I haven't really seen any potential benefits.


http://i.imgur.com/CpEE96e.gif

Why does everything have to be financial ? Breaking away from the UK for Ireland was not a great financial move on the outset.

catbear

darkpagandeath wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Do you understand the case they are taking?

Explain it then....

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1210/837926-brexit-irish-court/

Effectively the plaintiffs would argue that the EU, and by extension, Ireland, broke its own rules by holding summit meetings without the British prime minister.

Only problem with that is that David Cameron already vacated the UK's seat at both EU level and at a later meeting with Obama.
His vacating his seat registered the uks official intent to leave.

Didas

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why does everything have to be financial ? Breaking away from the UK for Ireland was not a great financial move on the outset.

Because the impact will be mostly financial, the impact on sovereignty will not be anywhere near comparable to Ireland leaving the UK.

darkpagandeath

tonygun wrote: »

Because the impact will be mostly financial, the impact on sovereignty will not be anywhere comparable to Ireland leaving the UK.

What if they get access to the market like another 50 countries do with the EZ ?

Grayson

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why does everything have to be financial ? Breaking away from the UK for Ireland was not a great financial move on the outset.

It might have been, if we hadn't fecked it up. We had the stupid idea of becoming insular and self sufficient.

But yeah, it does. Thanks to years of austerity I think there's something like 15 million living in poverty in the UK. That number will get bigger and it will get worse for those people too.

The UK is in a very delicate position economically and socially.

Didas

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What if they get access to the market like another 50 countries do with the EZ ?

That would be a financial impact, which is why Brexit is being judged on financial rather than sovereignty terms, as you queried in your last post, becuase the impact on sovereignty is significant smaller.

darkpagandeath

tonygun wrote: »

That would be a financial impact, which is why Brexit is being judged on financial rather than sovereignty terms, as you queried in your last post, becuase the impact on sovereignty is significant smaller.

How so other countries have free access do they not ? It's somewhat a myth that there is only free access for EU members. It can be negotiated like others. Unless I have taken Crazy pills.

A Little Pony

Grayson wrote: »

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why does everything have to be financial ? Breaking away from the UK for Ireland was not a great financial move on the outset.

It might have been, if we hadn't fecked it up. We had the stupid idea of becoming insular and self sufficient.

But yeah, it does. Thanks to years of austerity I think there's something like 15 million living in poverty in the UK. That number will get bigger and it will get worse for those people too.

The UK is in a very delicate position economically and socially.

Poverty is part of life, it will not be eradicated. We live in a capitalist society, a consumerism society, people look out for themselves, the trade Unions are in poor shape compared to the good ole days of national strikes and workers power and influence on the Labour party.

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

No-one can actually point out to a financial benefit that the UK will have if they leave. Of course no-one can actually say what brexit will be like so it's understandable that they can't say what the financial benefits will be. Still I haven't really seen any potential benefits.


http://i.imgur.com/CpEE96e.gif

There may not be much benefit to the country as a whole, but you can be sure that some will benefit from it, otherwise it would have never been on the agenda.
Restricting the import of cheap foreign goods should in theory improve the lot for UK manufacturers and restricting the migration of cheap labour will in theory improve the lot for native employees.

These are the main reasons that many voted leave.

Grayson

A Little Pony wrote: »

Poverty is part of life, it will not be eradicated. We live in a capitalist society, a consumerism society, people look out for themselves, the trade Unions are in poor shape compared to the good ole days of national strikes and workers power and influence on the Labour party.

It may be "a part of life" but that doesn't mean that we should take measures to increase the number of people in poverty.

Capt'n Midnight

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What if they get access to the market like another 50 countries do with the EZ ?

The devil as they say is in the detail.

How many of those countries are allowed passport financial services in the EU without accepting the four freedoms ?

First Up

darkpagandeath wrote:

How so other countries have free access do they not ? It's somewhat a myth that there is only free access for EU members. It can be negotiated like others. Unless I have taken Crazy pills.

Depends what you mean by "free". As part of the Single Market, the UK has unrestricted access to the other 27 EU countries. A company in Coventry can do business on the same terms with a customer in Bratislava as with a customer in Birmingham.

When the UK leaves the EU, its trade with Slovakia and the other 26 EU countries will be subject to whatever cross border terms are agreed. That may or may not include tarrifs - some categories will fare better than others - but at a minimum it will include customs procedures, inspections, paperwork - all adding up to costs and delays.

Peregrinus

Deleted User wrote: »

There may not be much benefit to the country as a whole, but you can be sure that some will benefit from it, otherwise it would have never been on the agenda.
Restricting the import of cheap foreign goods should in theory improve the lot for UK manufacturers and restricting the migration of cheap labour will in theory improve the lot for native employees.

These are the main reasons that many voted leave.

There aren't any Brexit proposals, though, are there, that involve "restricting the import of cheap foreign goods"? Any tariff and/or non-tariff barriers that grow between the UK and the EU-27 will restrict imports, but the EU-27 hardly produce what you might call "cheap foreign goods". And some of the muc-talked-of trade agreements that, Brexiters like to point out, the UK will be free to enter into are with the likes of China, India and so on. So if Brexiters' dreams are realised, there's likely to be greater penetration of cheap foreign goods, not less. If imports do go down, it will be because of the decline in sterling.

Billy86

steddyeddy wrote: »

You realise you'll be left poorer?

S/he doesn't mind, so long as it allows the continued high volume immigration of Muslims into the UK via the Commonwealth; that's in their own words.