Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

Jimoslimos

Peregrinus wrote: »

Nevertheless, the Tory vote share did fall, from 56.2% to 53.5%. As the Labour vote also fell, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that the big winners were the Liberal Democrats, whose vote share nearly doubled.

That doesn't matter in a constituency like Sleaford/Nth Hykeham, where the Tories could nominate a squashed apricot and still be confident of victory. But the takeaway message is, in so far as there was a leakage of the Tory vote, it was not to UKIP but to the Lib Dems, who of course also picked up votes from Labour. And while that's not a cause for concern in Sleaford/Nth Hykeham it is something they will be noting in more marginal Tory seats.

While the Lib Dems vote share did increase it was only off the back off a disastrous 2015 GE. Still their second worst result (by vote percentage) in the constituency and nowhere near what they were polling in 2010.

Poor result for UKIP, whose candidate was the only one with any semblance of political experience (if you can call Lincolnshire County Council that) in an extremely poor quality lineup from all the other main parties. Although I have the feeling UKIP aren't interested in targeting safe or marginal Tory seats, since there is little ideological difference between the two parties now.

Labour...they're in big trouble.

Junkyard Tom

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Labour...they're in big trouble.

The entire 'left' is in trouble because all they've offered is lite versions of 'the right' so people are voting to piss-off the right/left consensus ergo Brexit and Trumplestiltskin. The outcome will probably be worsening conditions for the 'Pissedoffletariat'©.

Jimoslimos

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The entire 'left' is in trouble because all they've offered is lite versions of 'the right' so people are voting to piss-off the right/left consensus ergo Brexit and Trumplestiltskin.

Well I wouldn't say Corbyn is offering a "lite version of the right" rather a muddled version of something.

Junkyard Tom

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Well I wouldn't say Corbyn is offering a "lite version of the right" rather a muddled version of something.

He certainly isn't which is why the careerist politicians in Labour and the establishment media shat the bed when he was elected as leader.

steddyeddy

volchitsa wrote: »

You're thinking of Napoleon.

De Gaulle was over 6 feet tall and got rid of much of France's colonies most notably Algeria, which was unthinkable to many ordinary French people, not just a few who thought France should rule the world.

Why did he get rid of the colonies?

marienbad

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why did he get rid of the colonies?

With Algeria he understood France would have to fight the same war every generation .

volchitsa

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why did he get rid of the colonies?

Realism. Just as he was realistic about what it would mean to have Britain in the EEC.

Fratton Fred

volchitsa wrote: »

You're thinking of Napoleon.

De Gaulle was over 6 feet tall and got rid of much of France's colonies most notably Algeria, which was unthinkable to many ordinary French people, not just a few who thought France should rule the world.

Got rid of? A seven year war and half a million deaths?

Sounds like they were kicked out.

Many of their colonies are no longer colonies, they are integral departments of France.

volchitsa

And? You're going further and further off topic, hysterically so, it appears.
The rest of the EU doesn't want Britain back in, is the point.
Except the Irish because having the UK between us and Europe makes things extremely difficult. But I'd say it will simply things immensely for the French and the Germans, once it's finally done that is.

Fratton Fred

volchitsa wrote: »

And? You're going further and further off topic, hysterically so, it appears.
The rest of the EU doesn't want Britain back in, is the point.

Please provide a reference to support this claim.

mansize

Red, White and Blue Brexit, what I load of jingoistic horseshít!!

I can't wait till they leave!

Junkyard Tom

mansize wrote: »

Red, White and Blue Brexit, what I load of gigoistic horseshít!!

Yeah it's utter bollocks that appeals to the Great (wonderful, amazing) Britain dummies.

Professor Moriarty

volchitsa wrote: »

And? You're going further and further off topic, hysterically so, it appears.
The rest of the EU doesn't want Britain back in, is the point.
Except the Irish because having the UK between us and Europe makes things extremely difficult. But I'd say it will simply things immensely for the French and the Germans, once it's finally done that is.

The rest of the EU wants Britain to stay but on the EU's terms. Realpolitik will dictate the next two years and Britain will agree to fudge unless they really are that stupid. The problem is that even the threat of a hard Brexit will have done enormous damage to their economy and standing ever before the fudge is agreed.

Christy42

mansize wrote: »

Red, White and Blue Brexit, what I load of jingoistic horseshít!!

I can't wait till they leave!

Putin approves . You would think they would realise they are not the only ones with those colours.

This is more of May trying to avoid saying anything about their plans or lack there of. Still she had to do a u turn on that to get parliament to approve her timeline so we will see on Tuesday.

volchitsa

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The rest of the EU wants Britain to stay but on the EU's terms. Realpolitik will dictate the next two years and Britain will agree to fudge unless they really are that stupid. The problem is that even the threat of a hard Brexit will have done enormous damage to their economy and standing ever before the fudge is agreed.

Oh I agree, definitely, it's a pain for everyone that they've decided to leave.

But I was replying to the suggestion that the British would likely within a decade or so see for themselves what a disaster it had been and "decide to rejoin" - I'm not at all sure there'd be the appetite in the rest of Europe to risk the whole upheaval again. Once the ties are finally cut, I expect that to be that, as far as the rest of the EU is concerned - Ireland aside, for pragmatic reasons.

It's not like the British were ever enthusiastic about the actual European project at any stage, so there'd always be underlying tension with them inside the house so to speak.

Fratton Fred

mansize wrote: »

Red, White and Blue Brexit, what I load of jingoistic horseshít!!

I can't wait till they leave!

Which is about as intelligent as a Brexiter voting to leave.

Managed badly, this could be catastrophic for the Irish economy.

volchitsa

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Which is about as intelligent as a Brexiter voting to leave.

Managed badly, this could be catastrophic for the Irish economy.

Yeah, it was nice of you to think of the rest of us when you made your decision.
Clearly you wouldn't expect anyone else to do any different now, right?

Fratton Fred

volchitsa wrote: »

Yeah, it was nice of you to think of the rest of us when you made your decision.
Clearly you wouldn't expect anyone else to do any different now, right?

I voted to remain.

Brexit needs to be managed correctly, if not it could be devastating for all if these islands.

It will be though, because it will be managed by sensible mature people, not hysterical xenophobes.

volchitsa

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I voted to remain.

Brexit needs to be managed correctly, if not it could be devastating for all if these islands.

It will be though, because it will be managed by sensible mature people, not hysterical xenophobes.

At was a you plural.

What, like Boris Johnson you mean? :eek:

MrPudding

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Brexit needs to be managed correctly, if not it could be devastating for all if these islands.

It will be though, because it will be managed by sensible mature people, not hysterical xenophobes.

So kind of exactly like it isn't being manageed then. Awesome.

MrP

FrancieBrady

volchitsa wrote: »

At was a you plural.

What, like Boris Johnson you mean? :eek:

Theresa is running around like a headless chicken in my view. She cannot bring all the strands together and make sense of it for anyone. How long are we meant to give her to do that?

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I voted to remain.

Brexit needs to be managed correctly, if not it could be devastating for all if these islands.

It will be though, because it will be managed by sensible mature people, not hysterical xenophobes.

Boris Johnson and David Davis fit your descriptions unfortunately.

A Little Pony

First Up wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote:

My freedom is not idiotic. I will oppose that institution right until the day we leave.

Your understanding of what constitutes "freedom" in a global economy among sovereign nations is more pathetic than idiotic, but both descriptions fit.

You don't know what sovereign nations are if you consider Greece, Spain, Italy sovereign nations. Greece is such a sad story considering the history of that wonderful country. I can't believe the Greek people have just taken it up the arse by the EU.

First Up

A Little Pony wrote:

You don't know what sovereign nations are if you consider Greece, Spain, Italy sovereign nations. Greece is such a sad story considering the history of that wonderful country. I can't believe the Greek people have just taken it up the arse by the EU.

A Little Pony wrote:

I can't believe the Greek people have just taken it up the arse by the EU.

So what would you have them do?

Iwasfrozen

volchitsa wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes, of course.

He was an arrogant little **** who thought the French empire should rule the world.

You're thinking of Napoleon.

De Gaulle was over 6 feet tall and got rid of much of France's colonies most notably Algeria, which was unthinkable to many ordinary French people, not just a few who thought France should rule the world.

He left the job unfinished. France is more imperial than Britain.

Grayson

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/09/nigel-farage-scathing-attack-ukip-low-grade-people

Nigel Farage has said he is relieved to no longer be Ukip leader because it had meant “having to deal with low-grade people every day”, in an interview where he said his £85,000-a-year salary had left him “poor” compared with his City banker friends.

Speaking to the Telegraph, Farage said he now has global ambitions beyond the Eurosceptic party, including negotiating trade deals with the US president-elect, Donald Trump, and finding a solution to the Middle East conflict.

“I am having a great time,” he said. “I am not having to deal with low-grade people every day. I am not responsible for what our branch secretary in Lower Slaughter said half-cut on Twitter last night – that isn’t my fault any more. I don’t have to go to eight-hour party executive meetings.

“I don’t have to spend my life dealing with people I would never have a drink with, who I would never employ and who use me as a vehicle for their own self-promotion. There are a lot of great people in Ukip. The problem is that Ukip has become a bit like the other parties: people view it as a means to get elected.

I actually laughed out loud when I read the bit in bold.

An interesting curve ball thrown into the negotiations by Guy Verhofstadt. Read about it a few weeks back. Not sure how credible it was then, but its still on the agenda it seems.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html

A Little Pony

Deleted User wrote: »

An interesting curve ball thrown into the negotiations by Guy Verhofstadt. Read about it a few weeks back. Not sure how credible it was then, but its still on the agenda it seems.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html

He reminds me of Romulus Augustulus, the end is near and he is desperate to keep it together but once the UK leaves, other countries will end up leaving too. The EU project doesn't work, it is done.

First Up

A Little Pony wrote:

He reminds me of Romulus Augustulus, the end is near and he is desperate to keep it together but once the UK leaves, other countries will end up leaving too. The EU project doesn't work, it is done.

I think you should stick to advising the Greeks on their economic strategy.

steddyeddy

Cambridge sees drop in EU applicants following Brexit vote. If a country goes along with the narrative that immigration is bad then you don't deserve the best it has to offer.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-08/cambridge-university-says-eu-applications-fell-after-brexit-vote

Edit: University of Birmingham sees 14% drop in EU applicants.

http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/education-committee/the-impact-of-exiting-the-european-union-on-higher-education/written/42931.html