Hijab wearing muslim "attacked" on street

Samaris

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I made a thread about this time two years ago, incase anyone things I'm strawmanning for the sake of it, about my brother being assaulted and why. As it happens, he was out on a night out with his friend. His friend is Muslim. They were coming home when they started on my brothers friend. My brother stood in, and was stabbed with a broken bottle, knocked to the ground and kicked unconscious. He was moved from one hospital to another with a serious head injury. The gardai didn't even arrest the scumbags at the scene.

It made no news headlines, infact we were hard pressed to have the guards investigate it at all. So I know all too well about people being picked on for what they are, and I stand by what I said. There's much worse happening out there. Actual assault.

Infact, look at the contrast here, don't dare belittle the victims experience but if you pop over to the kardashian thread, it's fine to rip her to shreds, after she had a gun to her head because she deserves everything that happens to her right?

I'm sorry about what happened to your brother, and actually, I see where you're coming from. But here, you -are- belittling something bad that happened to one person because your brother suffered more. It's like looking at someone with flu and saying "ugh, are you still talking about having flu? I had -dengue fever- last year and no-one cared". You can still have empathy with someone who is upset even if others treated you unfairly in the past. Why hope that what was done to your brother - or not done FOR your brother - is done to her?

Also, oh god, I have no idea what's happening in the KK thread. I don't know if I want to, since KK is not top of my list of things to go reading about. But srsly, report anything that needs reporting if you're reading it.

darkpagandeath

Billy86 wrote: »

Where did I bring up the KKK exactly?

I can see you bringing them up here, in response to another poster...


Now where did I bring them up?

I'm not responsible for what people remember typing.

Billy86

Arthur.beaker wrote: »

You haven't shown how a scarf and / or hat is not comparable here. See my previous answers, you seem incapable or reading them.

A woman wearing a hijab in a western secular country is not standard it is by choice, a choice which shows the person going above and beyond the bare minimum of being a practicing Muslim, so extreme.

I have shown how they're not comparable. It's still highly disrespectful, but you can flick a hat or pull a scarf off someone with very little effort or physical distress. A hijab on the other hand, you cannot.

No, a burka you can easily say is extreme. A hijab, is not. They can actually look quite nice.





I'll correct myself on one thing though - Irish women used to very regularly wear headscarves very similar to the hijab, and the occasional elderly woman still does ( http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1638735!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/image.jpg ) . If this were your mother wearing one, and she had it ripped off her head by two men who were complete strangers, how you feel about it.

Samaris

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No it is not. It's a tool of oppression used to subjugate women and in that particular culture not wearing it is met with verbal violence at a minimum and extreme attacks more lightly. Women in the west chose to wear it. Try choosing to wear it where the Religion is enforced.

*face. palm.*

Okay, young men of the UK, it is your duty to rip items of clothing off women in the street because you don't like said items of clothing and don't feel it should be important to those women or that they should have a choice as to whether they want to wear them or not. Go for it! You big damn heroes, you!

That better?

My name is URL

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No it is not. It's a tool of oppression used to subjugate women and in that particular culture not wearing it is met with verbal violence at a minimum and extreme attacks more lightly. Women in the west chose to wear it. Try choosing to wear it where the Religion is enforced.

Those stupid women don't know when they're being subjugated. They should all do as I say and live according to my ideals.

It's for their own good and the good of society

Billy86

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm not responsible for what people remember typing.

Reported.

If you're going to accuse people of things, back them up.

EDIT: And I'll ask you again - if you granny was wearing an older headscarf life this ( http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1638735!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/image.jpg ) and had it ripped off her head by two 20/30 something men in public that she didn't know, how would you feel about it?

darkpagandeath

Samaris wrote: »

You going to answer the question, or are you honestly going to argue that wronging this woman to correct a wrong you feel is being done to her (since while the hijab is used to subjugate women IMO as well, but I cannot deny women the right to wear one if they want), makes it all right?

I mean, are you actually, honestly, on the side of the two thugs here? I don't really think you are, since you are desperately grasping at any straw that means you don't have to answer Billy's question. I don't think you're actually incapable of understanding it, so I have to assume it is deliberate.

Err where did I say that ?

gitzy16v

Billy86 wrote: »

I have shown how they're not comparable. It's still highly disrespectful, but you can flick a hat or pull a scarf off someone with very little effort or physical distress. A hijab on the other hand, you cannot.

No, a burka you can easily say is extreme. A hijab, is not. They can actually look quite nice.





I'll correct myself on one thing though - Irish women used to very regularly wear headscarves very similar to the hijab, and the occasional elderly woman still does ( http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1638735!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/image.jpg ) . If this were your mother wearing one, and she had it ripped off her head by two men who were complete strangers, how you feel about it.

I answered that already it wouldn't be nice but nobody would care or report it as an attack or assault

RustyNut

LexieOnRale wrote: »

People are scum, but there's much worse happening out there that's not making the papers. Real assault.

Are you saying that rape should not be reported because someone else was murdered?

Another example that made the papers.

darkpagandeath

Billy86 wrote: »

Reported.

If you're going to accuse people of things, back them up.

EDIT: And I'll ask you again - if you granny was wearing an older headscarf life this ( http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1638735!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/image.jpg ) and had it ripped off her head by two 20/30 something men in public that she didn't know, how would you feel about it?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101297274&postcount=70

Let's imagine that your hood was culturally important to you (white and pointy, maybe

apologies it was Ray


But you did say.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101297468&postcount=101

Is your mother in the KKK,

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Samaris wrote: »

I'm sorry about what happened to your brother, and actually, I see where you're coming from. But here, you -are- belittling something bad that happened to one person because your brother suffered more. It's like looking at someone with flu and saying "ugh, are you still talking about having flu? I had -dengue fever- last year and no-one cared". You can still have empathy with someone who is upset even if others treated you unfairly in the past. Why hope that what was done to your brother - or not done FOR your brother - is done to her?

Also, oh god, I have no idea what's happening in the KK thread. I don't know if I want to, since KK is not top of my list of things to go reading about. But srsly, report anything that needs reporting if you're reading it.

My brother was one incident. One. It wasn't on the radio, the local paper, the national paper or the news. Thankfully it wasn't worse than what it was to be reported. But for gods sake, the woman had her scarf pulled. Yes it was horrible. Yes it shouldn't have happened. Yes the guys who did it are scumbags. But how much of an assault is it? Is it worse than the young lad standing at the bar and someone pulling his pants down, which I've seen happen on more than one occasion? There are ACTUAL assaults happening. Constantly. Knife attacks, rapes, child abuse cases, domestic violence. That's assault.
Having an item of clothes pulled off you is something you leave the police to investigate. It's not an international news headline.

Samaris

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Err where did I say that ?

I am asking you the question, I know they are upsetting things, questions. But if you are not on the side of these two thugs, why do you appear to be defending their actions?

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Having an item of clothes pulled off you is something you leave the police to investigate. It's not an international news headline.

Assault is, amongst other things, uninvited physical contact, particularly violent contact. Snatching an item of clothing off someone does kinda fall under those lines. The reason it's being reported is that other women wearing headscarves deserve to know that they are at risk of this rather disgusting mode of thought that it's okay to do so. No, it's not international news, although I must say, I'd probably not have heard of it bar for the OP setting this up as "why is this news", thus making it AH news as well (a bit ironically!)

And it is worth pointing out again that the -only reason she was targeted- was because she was a Muslim. That is -why- she was attacked. Someone saw the hijab and thought "target!". That's why this is particularly unpleasant. It was something done to shame her in public for no reason but their own entertainment.

For the record, I don't agree with pulling someone's pants down either and I'd have no pity if the moron that did it was clipped around the earhole by the police either!

darkpagandeath

Samaris wrote: »

I am asking you the question, I know they are upsetting things, questions. But if you are not on the side of these two thugs, why do you appear to be defending their actions?

Where have I ?

Billy86

gitzy16v wrote: »

I answered that already it wouldn't be nice but nobody would care or report it as an attack or assault

I do agree that it wouldn't be reported, but I would put the growing number of incidents in the UK since the Brexit down to this. Not at all at all saying all 'leave' voters were bigots, but the result seems to have given a good number of people reason to think they're perfectly fine to act on their bigotry.

I don't really mind that it was or wasn't reported, I'm just bemused (though not surprised) at those who seem to be grand with it in here - hence the mother question. Cheers for answering that one by the way!

Billy86

darkpagandeath wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101297274&postcount=70



apologies it was Ray


But you did say.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101297468&postcount=101

Which was a direct response to this post of yours to me:

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Would you pull the white cloths off a KKK member ? I would wager one would think it's fine.

darkpagandeath

Billy86 wrote: »

Which was a direct response to this post of yours to me:

And I apologised.

Side Gate

It's not an attack. More PC claptrap

Arthur.beaker

anewme wrote: »

Shocked at the number of people who seem to think it's ok to manhandle a stranger in the street.

Be they black, white, green with pink dots. No matter what they are wearing.

Irrespective of what's happening in the world, this is not acceptable.

Shocked at the sensationalising and attempts to sexualise the incident by using emotive terms like ripping your mothers clothes off. Sickening. If a crime has been committed then the offenders should be subject to the laws of the land regardless of whether the victim was muslim, catholic or any other religion.

The fact this makes headlines shows an unacceptable agenda.

zoe 3619

Well,maybe it's not newsworthy.. but one poster said it's anti hate crime week,so maybe it's in context.
There has always seemed to a large racist element in the u.k,and that seems to have escalated with the brexit decision.
Horrible thing to happen.No one should be interfered with by strangers.equivalent to having a crucifix ripped from you because you are christian.

lawlolawl

I'm an out and out atheist but i would actually physically intervene if i saw someone messing with a Muslim woman's hijab or a Sikh guys turban or whatever.

Some random dickhead on the street doesn't get to decide what is ok for someone else to wear in public and then act on it. You don't go putting your hands on a person or their clothes/headgear/whatever without their express permission. I work in public transport and i've had to pull numerous people up on casual racism/insert-whatever-religion-here-phobia on too many occasions.

Leave people alone, you utter ****ing dickheads.

homerjay2005

Penny Tration wrote: »

If someone pulls an article of clothing off of my body against my will, it's an assault.


Just because it's a hijab, doesn't change what they did.

So if you are wearing let's say a cap and a friend of yours knocks it off, would you take an assault case against them?

zoe 3619

lawlolawl wrote: »

I'm an out and out atheist but i would actually physically intervene if i saw someone messing with a Muslim woman's hijab or a Sikh guys turban or whatever.

Some random dickhead on the street doesn't get to decide what is ok for someone else to wear in public and then act on it. You don't go putting your hands on a person or their clothes/headgear/whatever without their express permission. I work in public transport and i've had to pull numerous people up on casual racism/insert-whatever-religion-here-phobia on too many occasions.

Leave people alone, you utter ****ing dickheads.

Wish i could thank you twice..:-)

RustyNut

homerjay2005 wrote: »

So if you are wearing let's say a cap and a friend of yours knocks it off, would you take an assault case against them?

Try knock the cap off a grumpy guard the next time your out and about and see what happens.

Billy86

Arthur.beaker wrote: »

Shocked at the sensationalising and attempts to sexualise the incident by using emotive terms like ripping your mothers clothes off. Sickening. If a crime has been committed then the offenders should be subject to the laws of the land regardless of whether the victim was muslim, catholic or any other religion.

The fact this makes headlines shows an unacceptable agenda.

Again, your mother or granny (whichever is the appropriate age to be wearing one) is walking down the street in her headscarf - http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1638735!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/image.jpg - when two fully grown men she has never seen before out of nowhere come over and rip it off her head. How would you feel about this?

Your continued failure to answer this is showing an agenda in itself.

darkpagandeath

homerjay2005 wrote: »

So if you are wearing let's say a cap and a friend of yours knocks it off, would you take an assault case against them?

No but it's a stranger in lies the problem. If it happened to me I would not really make much off it.

darkpagandeath

RustyNut wrote: »

Try knock the cap off a grumpy guard the next time your out and about and see what happens.

That would be against the law. Same in the UK for the police hat.

gitzy16v

Billy86 wrote: »

I do agree that it wouldn't be reported, but I would put the growing number of incidents in the UK since the Brexit down to this. Not at all at all saying all 'leave' voters were bigots, but the result seems to have given a good number of people reason to think they're perfectly fine to act on their bigotry.

I don't really mind that it was or wasn't reported, I'm just bemused (though not surprised) at those who seem to be grand with it in here - hence the mother question. Cheers for answering that one by the way!

No problem,it's indefensible in my eyes,I just feel it's a non story to everyone bar the victim and her family,just like it would be if it was my mother affected.
I get the feeling people only care because it's a Muslim I'd feel pretty hard done by if my mother suffered the exact same assault at the same time and there was more focus on this incident than my hypothetical incident,because 1 is Muslim and the other is Irish it shouldn't be treated differently.

anewme

Arthur.beaker wrote: »

Shocked at the sensationalising and attempts to sexualise the incident by using emotive terms like ripping your mothers clothes off. Sickening. If a crime has been committed then the offenders should be subject to the laws of the land regardless of whether the victim was muslim, catholic or any other religion.

The fact this makes headlines shows an unacceptable agenda.

theres no sensationalising as far as I'm concerned. It should not have happened. I don't care who it happened to.

People should be able to walk up the street wearing what they like without being manhandled.

Why did the two little turds leg it? Because they would have been in trouble and rightly so.

One person put it quite well above-

It was an assault on someone's dignity and personal space.

darkpagandeath

gitzy16v wrote: »

No problem,it's indefensible in my eyes,I just feel it's a non story to everyone bar the victim and her family,just like it would be if it was my mother affected.
I get the feeling people only care because it's a Muslim I'd feel pretty hard done by if my mother suffered the exact same assault at the same time and there was more focus on this incident than my hypothetical incident,because 1 is Muslim and the other is Irish it shouldn't be treated differently.

How many news story's have you heard about people mothers having scarves removed ? It's purely a religious motivated article even though the 2 people made no remarks according to the article.

Nervous Wreck

homerjay2005 wrote: »

So if you are wearing let's say a cap and a friend of yours knocks it off, would you take an assault case against them?

A friend? No. Two lads trying to prove they're tough? Absolutely.