RAW Superthread

PTH2009

MrMac84 wrote: »

Thought he headed to the blue brand?

Some reports are saying he's going there and then others saying RAW. Could be there just rehearsing and will appear 2morrow nignt on SD ???

JP Liz V1

Heath Slater to challenge Lesnar so all 3MB could have titles

CastorTroy

How many beach balls will be there tonight? Once one thing gets a reaction from a wrestler, they repeat it. And knowing WWE, they'll try and write it into Cesaro's story

Lithium93_

Well I've seen what I wanted to see, I'll catch the rest on YouTube.

mrkiscool2

Do the crowd cheer Roman or Cena in this situation? Tough one!

J. Marston

Cena is an absolute twat.

mrkiscool2

Channeling the Miz on TalkingSmack on the real show haha.

Lord TSC

Road Dogg is on Twitter giving out that the beach ball is a masive sign of disrespect to guys like Finn. The same Road Dogg who also used Twitter to say wins and losses don't matter. The same Twitter platform WWE used to celebrate Sunday's beach ball involvement too.

In a way, that sums up the disconnect that exists with WWE.

Finn vs Jordan. Take off the Irish goggles for a moment, and ask yourself, why should the fans get invested into that match? Two generic white-meat babyfaces fighting for no reason other than they both had to get on the card. No consequences, no lasting implications. For many of these fans, they are into their 11th and 12th hour of wrestling in 72 hours (NXT 3 hours, Summerslam 6 hours, and 3 hours for Raw), with the quality declining significantly each night.

Nothing of real note happened on Raw. Cena and Reigns faced off a bit, AmbRollins fought the Hardyz in what looks like a one off match. Neither of those moments were unmissable, and by next week, will be forgotten about or recapped. Brawn killing Brock was awesome, and guess what. The crowd responded big time and in the "correct" manner for that. They got behind Miz when he cut a passionate promo. When the action in the ring was genuinely passionate and demanding their attention, the crowd gave it, by and large.

I know it sucks when the crowd get bored and opt to "get themselves over" by entertaining themselves, but I always feel that WWE needs to take a healthy dose of responsibility for that. I'd imagine Smackdown tonight will keep that burnout going too; the fans are going to be restless for another three hours.

sky88

while wwe definitely have blame for not putting on great shows for fans to watch but there are so many fans these days that are only there to try start chants and play with beach balls and try get themselves over.

Look at full sail thats all those fans are trying lately and NXT is hurting because of them to the extent they need to badly get out of there for me.

Granted wwe will solve this by putting on great shows.

Lord TSC

sky88 wrote: »

while wwe definitely have blame for not putting on great shows for fans to watch but there are so many fans these days that are only there to try start chants and play with beach balls and try get themselves over.

Look at full sail thats all those fans are trying lately and NXT is hurting because of them to the extent they need to badly get out of there for me.

Granted wwe will solve this by putting on great shows.

I think though NXT is a good example to go further with.

There was none of this on Saturday night with the NXT show. The NXT show presented a brilliant show which the fans got massively invested in, reacted "correctly". This started, this weekend, as the 6 hour show dragged on, and went into a 3 hour Raw. It developed because the fans got bored.

I can't massively comment on Full Sail, cause I don't watch the weekly product. But it wouldn't shock me if its a similar case; an audience has "seen it all", so to speak, and turn to amusing themselves. I'd agree they need to shake up the crowd a bit with NXT's TV shows, but financially, they might be limited with that option.

PTH2009

Cass on the injury list

Enzo messing up again lol

Loughc

PTH2009 wrote: »

Cass on the injury list

Enzo messing up again lol

Was that Enzo's fault tho? It just looked like Cass landed awkwardly is all.

ricero

A good raw it must be said. WWE would be stupid not to pull the trigger on strowman and have him go over lesnar at no mercy

J. Marston

Wonder if Cass would get in trouble for effing and blinding after his injury. Shouted out "Fúck!" a fair few times apparently.

PTH2009

J. Marston wrote: »

Wonder if Cass would get in trouble for effing and blinding after his injury. Shouted out "Fúck!" a fair few times apparently.

Can't blame him tbh his lifestyle for the next few weeks/months is going to heavily disturbed with this injury. Getting hurt is frustrating

Loughc

PTH2009 wrote: »

Can't blame him tbh his lifestyle for the next few weeks/months is going to heavily disturbed with this injury. Getting hurt is frustrating

Also he was at the start of his biggest push in the WWE to date, by the time he recovers Vince will no doubt have moved on to the next big man he's got a hard-on for.

DM_7

Cass can get lots of prescription meds now so should look good when he returns. An injury is a great chance to get in shape.

beakerjoe

DM_7 wrote: »

Cass can get lots of prescription meds now so should look good when he returns. An injury is a great chance to get in shape.

At first i thought it was a storyline injury, he seemed fine stomping on the chair to mash Enzos hand?

Lord TSC

beakerjoe wrote: »

At first i thought it was a storyline injury, he seemed fine stomping on the chair to mash Enzos hand?

I think he tried to fight through the injury.

J. Marston

DM_7 wrote: »

Cass can get lots of prescription meds now so should look good when he returns. An injury is a great chance to get in shape.

Bloody hilarious if he comes back looking like Jinder.

ERG89

J. Marston wrote:

Bloody hilarious if he comes back looking like Jinder.

Big Cass the former Caucasian & tag team partner of Enzo.

Mr.Nice Guy

That crowd seriously bugged me last night.

I thought the antics involving the beach ball were totally disrespectful. As Meltzer said, both Balor and Jordan were putting on a good match and working hard and then these clowns in the audience, who are only interested in trying to get themselves over rather than enjoy the match itself and let the guys get over, just sh*t on the whole thing. Absolute eejits of the highest order.

What particularly annoys me is if Balor were to be booked to lose a lot and not given a chance, these are exactly the types of fans that would be enraged by it. Speaking of which, they then start doing a Mexican wave during the Cruiserweight match, even though the guys in that match were again working hard. Gran Metalik was particularly good. If Vince was burying the Cruiserweight division and having big dudes smash the little dudes to pieces every week, these are the sorts of fans who would be bitching that the old man is out of touch. Sasha and Alexa got booed as well, so is the old man really out of touch when you react big time to the big guys on the show and show disregard for mostly everything else?

That beach ball thing is going to become a real pain in the arse. Credit to Bryan Alvarez who called it and said that this could now become a trend. I was really disappointed in Cena playing up to this. Normally his instincts and how he reacts to the crowd are a positive, but pandering to these self-indulgent "fans" is not going to be good long-term.

CastorTroy

Yeah, I said it in the Summerslam thread that because it got a reaction from Cesaro and the audience that it will happen more frequently. Whether the match was boring or not, someone brought the beach ball in so they were going to use it.

To be honest, I'm just fed up with these crowds. First they started booing Bayley and now Sasha. I know people want Sasha to turn heel but that wasn't the time to boo her.

Times they were right in there reactions were backing up the Miz and clapping along to Elias' song. I dislike people doing that at gigs, but here it shows a positive reaction to the songs and character.

As for wrestling burnout, imagine the crowd for tomorrow's Cruiserweight title match. They'll be dead.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

That crowd seriously bugged me last night.

I thought the antics involving the beach ball were totally disrespectful. As Meltzer said, both Balor and Jordan were putting on a good match and working hard and then these clowns in the audience, who are only interested in trying to get themselves over rather than enjoy the match itself and let the guys get over, just sh*t on the whole thing. Absolute eejits of the highest order.

What particularly annoys me is if Balor were to be booked to lose a lot and not given a chance, these are exactly the types of fans that would be enraged by it. Speaking of which, they then start doing a Mexican wave during the Cruiserweight match, even though the guys in that match were again working hard. Gran Metalik was particularly good. If Vince was burying the Cruiserweight division and having big dudes smash the little dudes to pieces every week, these are the sorts of fans who would be bitching that the old man is out of touch. Sasha and Alexa got booed as well, so is the old man really out of touch when you react big time to the big guys on the show and show disregard for mostly everything else?

That beach ball thing is going to become a real pain in the arse. Credit to Bryan Alvarez who called it and said that this could now become a trend. I was really disappointed in Cena playing up to this. Normally his instincts and how he reacts to the crowd are a positive, but pandering to these self-indulgent "fans" is not going to be good long-term.

Agree with all of that. The ones actively ignoring the CW's were most likely the ones crying for it to come back.

On the beachballs, the WWE twitter account was actively encouraging them by putting up a clip with the caption ''The Beachball Lives'' 24 hours after Cesaro got annoyed and burst it. I agree with him but it's just gonna get more dopes doing it and other stuff. Wouldn't suprise me if WWE start selling them, and pushing them hard next year for The Biggest Party of the Summer. Miz got a great reaction from the crowd for dumping on Cena and Reigns and came off as a justified heel but then the same nimrods go and ignore him in the main event.

CastorTroy

CastorTroy wrote: »

Times they were right in there reactions were backing up the Miz and clapping along to Elias' song. I dislike people doing that at gigs, but here it shows a positive reaction to the songs and character.

Except in the main event when he was actually in the ring they were more interested in themselves and the ball and not him. I'd love him to shoot on the crowd for that. He'd be well capable of it. Bring the smarks down to earth.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

That crowd seriously bugged me last night.

I thought the antics involving the beach ball were totally disrespectful. As Meltzer said, both Balor and Jordan were putting on a good match and working hard and then these clowns in the audience, who are only interested in trying to get themselves over rather than enjoy the match itself and let the guys get over, just sh*t on the whole thing. Absolute eejits of the highest order.

What particularly annoys me is if Balor were to be booked to lose a lot and not given a chance, these are exactly the types of fans that would be enraged by it. Speaking of which, they then start doing a Mexican wave during the Cruiserweight match, even though the guys in that match were again working hard. Gran Metalik was particularly good. If Vince was burying the Cruiserweight division and having big dudes smash the little dudes to pieces every week, these are the sorts of fans who would be bitching that the old man is out of touch. Sasha and Alexa got booed as well, so is the old man really out of touch when you react big time to the big guys on the show and show disregard for mostly everything else?

That beach ball thing is going to become a real pain in the arse. Credit to Bryan Alvarez who called it and said that this could now become a trend. I was really disappointed in Cena playing up to this. Normally his instincts and how he reacts to the crowd are a positive, but pandering to these self-indulgent "fans" is not going to be good long-term.

I agree with your point but on watching the show why should anyone care about the cruiserweights on raw. They're booked as filler so everyone switches off they're the new piss break act. And Balor and Jordan was a match for the sake of a match, nothing wrong with it as a thing but what was the point of it? Why should anyone have cared who won or lost. If earlier angle had said "son win here and you have an IC title shot" that'd give it some ooomph.
And I thought Sasha got boood because she mentioned Boston to a New York crowd.

Mr.Nice Guy

connemara man wrote: »

I agree with your point but on watching the show why should anyone care about the cruiserweights on raw. They're booked as filler so everyone switches off they're the new piss break act. And Balor and Jordan was a match for the sake of a match, nothing wrong with it as a thing but what was the point of it? Why should anyone have cared who won or lost. If earlier angle had said "son win here and you have an IC title shot" that'd give it some ooomph.
And I thought Sasha got boood because she mentioned Boston to a New York crowd.

You have a point about the cruiserweights being booked as filler most of the time, but presumably these are the types of fans that would have been high on the Cruiserweight Classic and high on quality wrestling, and yet they treated the match with disdain.

I don't really get the point about Balor and Jordan being just a match. I mean, not every match on Raw or Smackdown is going to have something on the line. There was a time on Raw last year when you had guys taking on jobbers in squash matches fairly regularly. And if you go to a house show, well most of the matches on the card are just matches for the sake of it. That doesn't mean you then look for a way to ignore what's going on. Balor and Jordan have been featured prominently on TV the last few weeks, Jordan is getting a degree of negative reaction due to the Angle storyline, so I figured they would be very into Finn and hostile towards Jordan, but they were just dismissive of the whole thing. I felt bad for the two of them putting up with that.

Normally I'd sympathise with a crowd if it was being given lousy finishes for instance, which happens on a lot of Raws, or poor matches, but on this show all the finishes were solid (the only non-decisive finish was Cass' injury which was out of their hands), and the matches they were given were mostly good in the ring. I just think they went there with a mindset of making it all about themselves. It's the sort of thing we usually see in post-Mania crowds and I guess it's now a post-Summerslam thing as well. I just hope that beach ball fad doesn't catch on because it not only hurts the workers being ignored, but for the viewers at home there is no amusement involved in watching people bouncing it around at the expense of the in-ring action.

They might have been all about the cruiserweight classic, but if I'm not mistaken aren't the current cruiserweight wrestling a more standard wwe style against the more flippy style of the classic. Like I never watched the classic and I don't watch 205 live, so when 8 lads are put in a match for no reason I switch of at home.

I've never been to a house show but aren't most matches either matches in current tv feuds? or set up with a promo before hand ie. a heel comes out talks down the local area then a face comes out and puts him in her place? the reason I picked on the Jordan Finn match is what story got moved on? where is it going? where did it come from? from a tv perspective it was filler and if you were there especially if you were on hour 9 of wrestling this week it would definitely feel like filler.

did the crowd make the whole thing about themselves? they got into braun brock, they got into 2/3 shield vs hardys, all the Miz Roman joe and cena stuff, sung along with elias, thats half the show where the people were treated like big deals and where WWE have been better than the normal in their booking

Lithium93_

Corey Graves weighed in on the crowd in a now deleted tweet, not before someone screen shot it.



In a way, I'm in agreement with Corey, rather an active crowd, than a crowd that's the equivalent of crickets.

But that's just me.

Lord TSC

The CW division is an interesting example to bring up, because while it might not be getting buried in the manner you mentioned MNG, it is at the very least being utterly neglected.

Last week, the crowd actually got behind the Tozawa title win. There was a great reaction after months of no reactions, on the back of the fact something interesting actually finally happened in the division. And how do WWE follow it up? They reverse the decision quickly, on a pre-show, re-establish the norm and throw everyone into a ****ty match with no build, no consequences and no stakes. I genuinely can't remember if Tozawa did anything this week, other than advertise they were doing the rematch on the show no one watches, which will be the 15th hour of wrestling the fans have consumed this week at that stadium.

When WWE showed interest in the division last week, the crowd responded. When WWE lost interest again this week, so to did the crowd.

Hands up, who actually watches 205 Live? Not just the odd clip or Youtube video, the actual show? And we're the hardcore fans too. WWE has worked hard over the last few months to train the audience into the mentality that it's a pointless division and not to be all that interested in it. Dreadful stories, pointless matches, some talented guys.

People going to shows aren't paid actors, they don't need to do what WWE expects them to do. Its a relationship where one side wants to be entertained and the other should be entertaining. If WWE don't bother holding up their end of the deal, don't be shocked when people opt to make their own fun.