SFC Final Replay - Dublin v Mayo Sat 1st October *Read Mod Note Post #1*

Gael85

km79 wrote: »

I forgot to comment on something actually that was very noticeable again yday.
There is a great mutual respect amongst both sets of supporters . I had my fill of "up the dubs " by the time I got to the ground alright but in the pub before and after and in the stand during there was great respect shown for opposing supporters and most players !
Great to be part of a day like that
I can't speak for what it was like on the Hill/Nally but would be hoping it was simailar and see no reason why it wasn't
Well done all !

I was on hill in middle of Mayo supporters and we had a great time. Plenty of banter and no bad blood. Its a pity some keyboard warriors from both counties clogging this thread with crap.I suppose they have to get their kicks. Both teams played on the edge and will have players that opposition supporters don't like but at the end day its only a game and we look forward to renewing rivalries Saturday week.

km79

Gael85 wrote: »

I was on hill in middle of Mayo supporters and we had a great time. Plenty of banter and no bad blood. Its a pity some keyboard warriors from both counties clogging this thread with crap.I suppose they have to get their kicks. Both teams played on the edge and will have players that opposition supporters don't like but at the end day its only a game and we look forward to renewing rivalries Saturday week.

Well said

corny

elguapo wrote: »

I keep hearing and reading that "Dublin can't be as bad again". Presumably this means the forwards, because their midfield and defence performed pretty well. Personally, I think their forwards will struggle again.

Mayo's defenders match up very well against them, and I'd expect them to be just as tight next time out. Brogan and Flynn are misfiring in general, McManamon and Connolly were well shackled, Rock was anonymous and Kilkenny is piling up possession stats but doing little with it. Andrews did well initially when he came on, but he was quiet in the second half, Mannion was buzzing around the place but again very little end product. I think Mayo will bring the same intensity if not more in the replay, and I don't see where Dublin's big improvement up front is going to come from.

Surely you'd concede a lot of the Dublin forwards have good records against Mayo, Brogan, KMc, Andrews for example, and poor performances like that are out of the ordinary. Mayo have the same defenders who've lost match ups against these lads in the past. Add in the fact its the one area Dublin have proven options and it really isn't a stretch to say Dublin should improve as a forward unit. Its not a given but they should.

The conditions gave defenders a big advantage yesterday on both sides.

corny

km79 wrote: »

Well said

What are you taking about you're the keyboard warrior he was referring to.:)

mrm

corny wrote: »

Surely you'd concede a lot of the Dublin forwards have good records against Mayo, Brogan, KMc, Andrews for example, and poor performances like that are out of the ordinary. Mayo have the same defenders who've lost match ups against these lads in the past. Add in the fact its the one area Dublin have proven options and it really isn't a stretch to say Dublin should improve as a forward unit. Its not a given but they should.

The conditions gave defenders a big advantage yesterday on both sides.

There is no question that we have seen this Dublin forward unit looking better, even against this 'same' set of Mayo backs but those same Mayo backs seem to be so focused this year on counteracting Dublins forwards I feel that is the biggest improvement we have seen from the perspective of both teams.

Also what would you quantify as an improved performance from Dublins forwards next game? 6 points would be a decent additional tally, but will they be gifted with 2 goals next game? All hard to call. Also don't think Brogan is the player he was when he last damaged Mayo (same maybe for KMc). Keegan marking Connolly out of the game does disrupt the Dublin forward unit significantly.

corny

mrm wrote: »

There is no question that we have seen this Dublin forward unit looking better, even against this 'same' set of Mayo backs but those same Mayo backs seem to be so focused this year on counteracting Dublins forwards I feel that is the biggest improvement we have seen from the perspective of both teams.

Also what would you quantify as an improved performance from Dublins forwards next game? 6 points would be a decent additional tally, but will they be gifted with 2 goals next game? All hard to call. Also don't think Brogan is the player he was when he last damaged Mayo (same maybe for KMc). Keegan marking Connolly out of the game does disrupt the Dublin forward unit significantly.

All bull****. Stick with it though.

mrm

corny wrote: »

All bull****. Stick with it though.

OK I'll concede. You brought up a very good past tense 'have' played better scenario. NOT bull****. Stick with it though! Brogan was sh*t - not the same player he was (I don't need to ask you to concede this one, evidence is sufficient).

Next game you will not be gifted with a significant amount of scores provided by the opposition nor a ref who did his best to keep you in a semi final game that was slipping away from you! 9 scores in an All Ireland final - you only have a replay due to pure luck! No evidence based on the semi or last weeks game that you wont need it again!

BTW - impeccable manners with your (well crafted evidence based) response! My apologies for attempting to conduct a discussion with your good self!

corny

mrm wrote: »

OK I'll concede. You brought up a very good past tense 'have' played better scenario. NOT bull****. Stick with it though! Brogan was sh*t - not the same player he was (I don't need to ask you to concede this one, evidence is sufficient).

Next game you will not be gifted with a significant amount of scores provided by the opposition nor a ref who did his best to keep you in a semi final game that was slipping away from you! 9 scores in an All Ireland final - you only have a replay due to pure luck! No evidence based on the semi or last weeks game that you wont need it again!

BTW - impeccable manners with your (well crafted evidence based) response! My apologies for attempting to conduct a discussion with your good self!

Judging by the countless comments on here i think you lot are just happy you can talk yourselves up again. Not interested in your one-upmanship.

elguapo

corny wrote: »

Surely you'd concede a lot of the Dublin forwards have good records against Mayo, Brogan, KMc, Andrews for example, and poor performances like that are out of the ordinary. Mayo have the same defenders who've lost match ups against these lads in the past. Add in the fact its the one area Dublin have proven options and it really isn't a stretch to say Dublin should improve as a forward unit. Its not a given but they should.

The conditions gave defenders a big advantage yesterday on both sides.

They have performed well against Mayo in the past, but that was then and this is now. Players go in and out of form. Brogan and Flynn are out of form, Mayo's defenders seem to be in form. McManamon might not even start, Connolly and Keegan are evenly matched. They might improve as a unit, but I have my doubts.
As for conditions, it might rain on October 1st as well!

corny

elguapo wrote: »

They have performed well against Mayo in the past, but that was then and this is now. Players go in and out of form. Brogan and Flynn are out of form, Mayo's defenders seem to be in form. McManamon might not even start, Connolly and Keegan are evenly matched. They might improve as a unit, but I have my doubts.
As for conditions, it might rain on October 1st as well!

So you're effectively ignoring the past. I can't prove you wrong obviously but i think thats foolish.

kilns

If any Mayo fan cant concede that Dublin underperformed then unfortunately they do not know much about football.

However the reasons why they underperformed are varied. One factor is the pressure Mayo put on Dublin all over the pitch. The other is the weather which acted nearly as a 7th defender for Mayo. Thirdly, in general all the Dublin forwards made poor choices and did not play to the best of their abilities.

Thats not to say Mayo performed at 100% either. Up front they too were poor enough and the two O Sheas were also poor performers on the day

Any geniune Mayo fan will be both optimistic and fearful for the replay. Optimistic because they know if they get the luck this time they could win. Fearful in the fact that if Dublin improve by 10% then no doubt Dublin will win

Gungadin

Blud wrote: »

Again, what about when they played An Mhi and An Ciarrai this year?

I don't really know or care. Just relaying how its supposedly organised as stated by some sports commentator last week.

seligehgit

kilns wrote: »

If any Mayo fan cant concede that Dublin underperformed then unfortunately they do not know much about football.

However the reasons why they underperformed are varied. One factor is the pressure Mayo put on Dublin all over the pitch. The other is the weather which acted nearly as a 7th defender for Mayo. Thirdly, in general all the Dublin forwards made poor choices and did not play to the best of their abilities.

Thats not to say Mayo performed at 100% either. Up front they too were poor enough and the two O Sheas were also poor performers on the day

Any geniune Mayo fan will be both optimistic and fearful for the replay. Optimistic because they know if they get the luck this time they could win. Fearful in the fact that if Dublin improve by 10% then no doubt Dublin will win

Good reasoned post but very hard to quantify all those variables.TBH I hope it spills rain the next day and I'm dead serious.

Undoubtedly Dublin underperformed and Mayo may have played closer to their potential on the day but how does one quantify the differential in their relative abilities to improve?Mayo may be as tigerish in defence again,but two inevitable goals conceded.There was ball watching and failure to track the runners.Will those calamities replicate themselves Saturday week?

Both sides turned over a lot of ball.

The Dublin forwards undoubtedly can improve.The O Shea's were poor and there is possibly less margin for improvement in the Mayo forwards.I actually think it will come down to whither Mayo will believe in themselves come down the home stretch.

corny

seligehgit wrote: »

Good reasoned post but very hard to quantify all those variables.TBH I hope it spills rain the next day and I'm dead serious.

Undoubtedly Dublin underperformed and Mayo may have played closer to their potential on the day but how does one quantify the differential in their relative abilities to improve?Mayo may be as tigerish in defence again,but two inevitable goals conceded.There was ball watching and failure to track the runners.Will those calamities replicate themselves Saturday week?

Both sides turned over a lot of ball.

The Dublin forwards undoubtedly can improve.The O Shea's were poor and there is possibly less margin for improvement in the Mayo forwards.I actually think it will come down to whither Mayo will believe in themselves come down the home stretch.

Tbh i don't think thats an issue. They haven't got over the line in an All Ireland final but its never been because of the intangibles. Its the obvious stuff.
- Higgins, AOS, SOS, even Vaughan taking made shots from the 45.
- Some say it was bad luck conceding 2 own goals. Well it was inches away from being three og's. Fenton should have made it four and if Rock had seen Flynn open in the first half it would have been 5. For all their good defending they're still giving up gilt-edged goal chances.
- They're still wasting ball playing it high into the square. AOS is capable of good movement and winning it clean out in front. He's proven that. He's never proven he can do anything with the high ball in. Dublin crowd him out and it ends up in a turnover every time.

seligehgit

TBH anybody who believes that it was bad luck that resulted in the two goals conceded yesterday is only kidding themselves.It was only some goalkeeping and good fortune that prevented further goal concessions in the first half.

We are continuing to afford up guilt edged goal opportunities for all the curious talk of the quality defending.

The high ball into Aidan O Shea was a dismal failure but then again he was poor in general yesterday.He is capable of such much more but has yet to produce it on the greatest stage of all.

In terms of the intangibles I'm referencing our past inability to close out a contest whilst in front or take control of game when it is up for grabs in the latter stages.I think this is purely a mental thing.Control as opposed to panic,pushing on whence you've already demonstrated you are good enough to be in front.Continuing to be positive as opposed to going defensive.

In several contests against Dublin we have been at our best when have nothing to lose.

PressRun

The two own goals came from poor defending. The second one in particular, Colm Boyle was completely caught out and lost his man. Can't happen again.

Stoner

seligehgit wrote:

TBH anybody who believes that it was bad luck that resulted in the two goals conceded yesterday is only kidding themselves.It was only some goalkeeping and good fortune that prevented further goal concessions in the first half.

I still think we were blessed

Dirty Dingus McGee

PressRun wrote: »

The two own goals came from poor defending. The second one in particular, Colm Boyle was completely caught out and lost his man. Can't happen again.

Still bad luck though.

Players get caught out all the time in games they just don't happen to be misfortunate enough for the ball to rebound off them into the back of the net.

blue4ever

The past is the past - performances were disappointing in parts in both camps. There's two weeks to for a plan b.
Someone posted a interesting point earlier. I feel Jim Gavin is a very calculated thinker - will loyalty or form dominate his decisions as to the starting 15.
I watched the game last night again and it was a different one to the one I saw on the Hill - but that's always the case!!
Both sides would want to be careful with some off the ball marking or simple intrusions.
DC putting a hand on a face, as did his counterpart, might not be tolerated (maybe went unseen)
BB really didn't feature - feature the way the Dubs expect him to which is a different thing.
Start him or leave him on the bench till the last 15? - Memories of the 'impact' Canavan made (mentally) coming on as an impact sub.
Interesting one for Dublin.
I see the CCCC have been reported some issues about the tunnel and the run on to the pitch. Hopefully its just handbags stuff

DDC1990

I really don't know what John Casey was on about in his report.

There was no skepling or barging through fellas. Bastick shoved O'Shea, O'Shea shoved McAuley and both sides ran off to where they should be.

He went on about O'Connor, but Cillian actually slowed down coming out of the tunnel to avoid running into Mick Fitzsimons. It's clear from the pictures that O'Connor comes out to his right from the tunnel and slows down.

Also a Croke Park official in a white shirt actually waves the Mayo team into the tunnel. The idea that this was a planned ambush by Mayo is crazy.

It could have been avoided by ignoring the programme order and sending Mayo out first when Dublin over-ran their time. Perhaps Croke Park officials were worried Mayo might be tempted to go for the Hill in that situation.

Stoner

DDC1990 wrote:

I really don't know what John Casey was on about in his report.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/cillian-oconnor-nearly-took-me-clean-out-of-it-how-mayo-lay-in-wait-for-dublin-in-the-tunnel/95915

DDC1990

I know, I've listened to it and i've watched the footage in RTE back 5 or 6 times.

There is no upscuttling at anytime. The head on camera footage cuts away as Cillian is running behind Mick Fitzsimons, and the next view is of the field and Mick Fitzsimons is running grand and looking suitibly un-upscuttled. O'Connor (easy to spot as he has the ball) pulls away to his right and slowa down to a jog as far away from the Dublin lads as possible. The rest I could see myself. O'Shea charges ahead and is shoved by Bastick. Then O'Shea shoves McAuley who loops around to look for O'Shea, but composes himself and comes back for the team photo.

John Casey might have got a fright, but his report seems to be total tripe and sensationalised.

Blud

DDC1990 wrote: »

I know, I've listened to it and i've watched the footage in RTE back 5 or 6 times.

There is no upscuttling at anytime. The head on camera footage cuts away as Cillian is running behind Mick Fitzsimons, and the next view is of the field and Mick Fitzsimons is running grand and looking suitibly un-upscuttled. O'Connor (easy to spot as he has the ball) pulls away to his right and slowa down to a jog as far away from the Dublin lads as possible. The rest I could see myself. O'Shea charges ahead and is shoved by Bastick. Then O'Shea shoves McAuley who loops around to look for O'Shea, but composes himself and comes back for the team photo.

John Casey might have got a fright, but his report seems to be total tripe and sensationalised.

I'd agree with this too, I think the main person looking a bit silly out of the whole thing is John Casey to be honest.

No doubt the GAA will use it as an excuse to take a few euro off the Dublin county board, and fair enough if that's the rule for failing to keep to the programme order. Much ado about nothing though.

PARlance

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Still bad luck though.

Players get caught out all the time in games they just don't happen to be misfortunate enough for the ball to rebound off them into the back of the net.

The fact that the ball hit off both Mayo players and into the net was indeed bad luck in itself but on another day Dublin could have easily eliminated that bad luck by scoring themselves from the many chances we afforded them.

So, we were unlucky to score 2 OG's and extremely lucky that Dublin didn't score a few of their own accord. I've heard some fans talk about having some sort of a 6 point headstart in the replay because we won't concede OG's again, that's fooling ourselves imo.

Peist2007

seligehgit wrote: »

TBH anybody who believes that it was bad luck that resulted in the two goals conceded yesterday is only kidding themselves.

It was as unfortunate a pair of goals as i have seen happen within 10 mins of each other to the same team. I'd say i have played north of 500 competitive gaelic football matches in my life and never seen own goals like that. It was 100% rotten luck and a huge amount (6 points) to merely hand over in an All Ireland Final. I'm glad the team didnt dwell on it (although the last 10 mins of the first half was our poorest spell) but it cannot be denied. If we had not come back and lost by a point we would be absolutely sick.

Fr Tod Umptious

I'd love to know why Dublin were late on the first place andbwhy they requested to change the order of the in out.

Were they trying to play mind games with Mayo to try and show them that they called the shots ?

It was probably something note innocent like someone getting last minute treatment or something.

Past30Now

The thinking was probably closer to "we'll go when were ready to go. They're not going to start the game without us". I doubt if it was mind games. Mayo were told they were going out second, and didn't fancy Dublin having the run of the place for three or four minutes, so started the run out as Dublin were finishing theirs. No big deal. Bit of pushing and shoving. Helped with the warm up.

Love the fact that it takes 24 hours to clear out most of the rubbish on both sides, and rational debate can restart.

Drumpot

PARlance wrote: »

The fact that the ball hit off both Mayo players and into the net was indeed bad luck in itself but on another day Dublin could have easily eliminated that bad luck by scoring themselves from the many chances we afforded them.

So, we were unlucky to score 2 OG's and extremely lucky that Dublin didn't score a few of their own accord. I've heard some fans talk about having some sort of a 6 point headstart in the replay because we won't concede OG's again, that's fooling ourselves imo.

Agree completely.

The replay starts at even and Mayo can take strength from the fact they outplayed Dublin for most of the match.

However, a thing that's still to be answered is how will Mayo perform when leading near the end of the game. Chasing the game, under any circumstances is a different pressure to leading and trying to either push on or hold what you have.

Had Dublin not scored the goals Mayo would of been leading. If Dublin were within 3 points with 10 mins to go, the pressure would be mounting on Mayo. How would they reach to being within touching distance of sam?

Personally I think it suited Mayo to be chasing the game and may of added fuel to the almost pedestrian like Dublin performance.

I mean, imagine playing in that game and thinking "Ok, we have never played this bad, haven't actually scored in 28 minutes, are still leading and we have a manager who always corrects things at HT, we will be grand". I'm not saying players would be thinking thinking directly but perhaps subconsciously it's reducing the drive factor by a few % that makes a huge difference at that level.

We won't know until sat week which team will take the most out of it. Can Dublin raise their game or will Mayo not let them? It's totally shaken up the precession it looked like being and makes for fascinating drama.

Fr Tod Umptious

Past30Now wrote: »

The thinking was probably closer to "we'll go when were ready to go. They're not going to start the game without us". I doubt if it was mind games. Mayo were told they were going out second, and didn't fancy Dublin having the run of the place for three or four minutes, so started the run out as Dublin were finishing theirs. No big deal. Bit of pushing and shoving. Helped with the warm up.

Love the fact that it takes 24 hours to clear out most of the rubbish on both sides, and rational debate can restart.

Your way off there.

The rational debate will only last a few hours until it again descends into a clusters**k and gets locked.

Past30Now

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Your way off there.

The rational debate will only last a few hours until it again descends into a clusters**k and gets locked.

I hope you're wrong.

Fact is that most of us typing are fans of the GAA, involved in our clubs, and interested in all aspects of the games. When I type, I type with blue tinted glasses, but try to measure my responses with reason, and not just blind loyalty.