South Africa v Ireland, Second Test. Match Thread

The Rape of Lucretia

Yes, if Robbie is unserviceable, then Payne's gotta go back to 13 for me. He is still the first choice 15, with Rob/Zeebs only for emergency situations or minor tours where Rob can help develop young players, but without Robbie (who should be transitioning himself over the next few years to take over at 15 when Payne fades), 13 is a teamwise defensively more important position than 15 despite its name.
Who goes to 15 this Sat? No enticing option, and much of a muchness. Earls would be an interesting but unlikely one. The more I think about it though, the more I like it, and maybe the best of a bad lot on what will undoubtedly be a weakness in the team now.

Brewster

Buer wrote: »

The problem is that Payne is our best fullback and 13. It was plain as day how badly he was missed from midfield in the second half yesterday. The Boks moved it far too easily across the pitch with no pressure. It was Argentina all over again.

I would invest in the future and keep him at full back but I can see him being moved to 13 if Henshaw is out. It makes sense.

Marshall needs to come back in. Olding didn't really hit the heights even in the first half where he was solid more than anything which is a very good start but not what's needed next week.

This is it, Payne is one of the top five players in the country in my view. I rate the guy that highly and always have since he came from his bad injury. People say he is not a centre, it's NOT his best position, but he can play 13 better than any of our current players, including Henshaw. Robbie has learned so much from Payne already and will continue to do so. To win a test next week, it's a huge call. Maybe Olding to fullback with Payne at 13. Not sure putting O Halloran in is the answer.

Brewster

If you look at the patterns of the game so far, the 15 has had to make few enough tackles over the two games. No guarantee the pattern will repeat, but having Payne at 13 and Olding at 15 may be the answer. Olding may have that bit more space to come into the line at pace...

CMOTDibbler

Brewster wrote: »

If you look at the patterns of the game so far, the 15 has had to make few enough tackles over the two games. No guarantee the pattern will repeat, but having Payne at 13 and Olding at 15 may be the answer. Olding may have that bit more space to come into the line at pace...

That makes a lot of sense to me. TOH is untried whereas Olding has had a tough test to blood him and will find the extra space at full back more suited to his strengths perhaps. TOH then goes to 23.

Neil3030

Except TOH has been playing 15 all season, has Olding?

bilston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

sydthebeat wrote: »

I don't think its marginal at all

A henshaw 13, Payne 15 combo is a significantly better attacking threat than a Payne 13 Kearney 15 at this moment in time.

I can't see how is arguable at all really.

That's not the point I was making. Just looking at Payne in isolation, the difference is marginal excluding who else plays at 15. For all we know, the answer to that question could be TOH.

Paddy Jackson had to do a hell of a lot of defending yesterday. He had the joint second most number of tackles (10) and also the joint most tackles missed (2). In contrast, Payne only had to make 4 tackles whereas Jackson, Olding and Henshaw had to make 30 between them and missed 5.

Payne is a very good defender and seeing as the majority of the defensive work was being done in midfield, that's where we need him.

All of this is for the third test by the way. Future matches are a completely different story, but Payne is not a long term option anyway.

He has played there maybe 4 or 5 times, but then he only returned at the end of January so I think he started there more than anywhere else.

awec

Olding at 15 would be a bit mad. The guy can play 15 but there's a world of difference doing it against Treviso in Ravenhill and the boks in SA.

Kobe248

Did TOH get on yesterday

I was not watching as my heart sunk for the last 5 mins

crisco10

awec wrote: »

Olding at 15 would be a bit mad. The guy can play 15 but there's a world of difference doing it against Treviso in Ravenhill and the boks in SA.

Especially since Olding played in the centre and Payne at 15 this week.

Would a Olding/Marshall centre partnership make the most sense? It's a little lightweight but would also lead to least disruption?

wp_rathead

Kobe248 wrote: »

Did TOH get on yesterday

I was not watching as my heart sunk for the last 5 mins

Almost certain I saw him the pitch at end of game and Irish Rugby said he made debut but alot of match reports say Madigan came on for Henshaw and Don't seem to acknowledge he played at all- is weird

Adbrowne

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/breaking-robbie-henshaw-out-of-final-south-africa-test-and-will-undergo-knee-surgery-34814463.html

Henshaw out of 3rd test, knee cartilage injury requiring surgery

vienne86

Adbrowne wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/breaking-robbie-henshaw-out-of-final-south-africa-test-and-will-undergo-knee-surgery-34814463.html

Henshaw out of 3rd test, knee cartilage injury requiring surgery

Pheck!

Hagz

12. Luke Marshall
13. Keith Earls

Boards would love that!

wp_rathead

So 3 options as far as I see:
15 Payne 13 Olding/Marshall 12 Marshall/Olding
15 Payne 13 Earl's 12 Marshall/Olding
15 TOH 13 Payne 12 Marshall/Olding

Zzippy

vienne86 wrote: »

Pheck!

Cartilage is very minor surgery these days. Won't even keep him out of pre-season training.

jm08

Kobe248 wrote: »

Did TOH get on yesterday

I was not watching as my heart sunk for the last 5 mins

No he didn't.

Adbrowne

wp_rathead wrote: »

So 3 options as far as I see:
15 Payne 13 Olding/Marshall 12 Marshall/Olding
15 Payne 13 Earl's 12 Marshall/Olding
15 TOH 13 Payne 12 Marshall/Olding

Marshall/Payne in the centre with TOH at 15 for me.

former total

Kobe248 wrote: »

Did TOH get on yesterday

I was not watching as my heart sunk for the last 5 mins

Sunday Times says he got 4 mins for Payne. I have no idea if that's accurate

jm08

former total wrote: »

Sunday Times says he got 4 mins for Payne. I have no idea if that's accurate

scrum.com says he didn't. And its rugby.co.uk has Payne as playing 80 mins.

Hagz

He got on but got like no time.

RoundBox11

Is the simple and best solution not just an Olding-Marshall centre combo and leave Payne at fullback?

Marshall has played all season at 13 anyway and then you'd have a cracking 10-12-13 Ulster combination who know each other well?

TOH would be a risky call at fullback given how weak he is defensively and we've no other real full back

bilston

Big blow for Ireland. Hope Henshaw makes a swift recovery.

It's hard to know what Joe will do. Having watched Marshall at 13 all season for Ulster I'm more than comfortable in the fact that he can read the game very well defensively in that position (see Ulster v Leinster at Kingspan as an example), but it's just whether you want two samller guys at 10 and 12.

Bigbok

mfceiling wrote: »

Ah god you're back. There wasn't a squeak out if you last week when SA were beaten by 14 men, at home, and even with 13 players at one stage.

Good to see you back.

So it's ok for the guy to
Write whats "choke" in
Afrikaans but
My comment gets to u??yes we lost but u never played a bok team but I guess that doesn't matter to u.people
Taking about how
Great ur depth is and yet a Mickey Mouse team beat u yesterday

LorMal

Bigbok wrote: »

So it's ok for the guy to
Write whats "choke" in
Afrikaans but
My comment gets to u??yes we lost but u never played a bok team but I guess that doesn't matter to u.people
Taking about how
Great ur depth is and yet a Mickey Mouse team beat u yesterday

Whats a 'bok team' especially?

Jacovs

CatFromHue wrote: »

the full game is up on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpfTNCNuLs

1.41.45 on the youtube clock is the play that Henshaw gets injured and it doesn't look good. I don't think we'll be seeing him next week anyway, it's nearly 4 mins later before they get him off the pitch and he's just prone on the ground with an ice pack on his knee the whole time.

Says video is removed. Any other source to watch the full game please?

RoundBox11

Bigbok wrote: »

So it's ok for the guy to
Write whats "choke" in
Afrikaans but
My comment gets to u??yes we lost but u never played a bok team but I guess that doesn't matter to u.people
Taking about how
Great ur depth is and yet a Mickey Mouse team beat u yesterday

A Mickey mouse team? SA should have done a hell of a lot better against a team missing Sexton, Stander, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Earls etc and with guys like Sean Reidy on the bench.

Springbok rugby is dreadful at the moment.

Sanjuro

Bigbok wrote: »

So it's ok for the guy to
Write whats "choke" in
Afrikaans but
My comment gets to u??yes we lost but u never played a bok team but I guess that doesn't matter to u.people
Taking about how
Great ur depth is and yet a Mickey Mouse team beat u yesterday

So the Boks have changed to the South African Mickey Mice? Because I don't see a much of a revolution happening any time soon in that team.

irishbucsfan

Sanjuro wrote: »

So the Boks have changed to the South African Mickey Mice? Because I don't see a much of a revolution happening any time soon in that team.

Don't forget, we know that CJ Stander isn't good enough to play for the Boks because he plays for a 2nd rate team like Ireland

RoundBox11

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't forget, we know that CJ Stander isn't good enough to play for the Boks because he plays for a 2nd rate team like Ireland

id say Stander is frothing at the mouth for next week at this stage

Buer

LorMal wrote: »

Whats a 'bok team' especially?

Didn't you know it's only a Bok team when they win?

Otherwise it's something to be discarded and something to distance oneself from. It also helps if you boo your own players and jeer them from the field when they're losing.