South Africa v Ireland, Second Test. Match Thread

AbusesToilets

phog wrote: »

I really wasn't expecting a win but once we went 19-3 up I thought we had enough to done to survive so feel deflated with the loss. I thought Heaslip's try might not be awarded but once we got it I thought it might be the killer blow but alas SA had more in the tank.

The loss certainly makes next weeks game far more interesting and I still think we can win the series, mind you before the tour I wasn't so sure about it.

That was the point that we needed strong bench options to come on a close out the game. Ryan was a poor call, didn't notice him at all. TOH could have come on for Trimble, and Marmion on for Murray.

jm08

former total wrote: »

Ryan is a hard one to call. He's behind Toner and Henderson obviously but if he's now behind Dillane and Roux...

Either Ryan or Toner has to start because they call the lineout. Its a match fitness issue with Ryan.

Roux is there for his scrummaging.

Billysays no

Zzippy wrote: »

There are only so many ways you can make the same point without spamming the forum. Enough.

I'm sorry Zzippy. I'm simply gutted with this result. It was such a positive initial selection, to allow the lads fall apart on their feet. Lost for words

kuang1

Billysays no wrote: »

Lost for words

If fukking only...

wp_rathead

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Ryan has done well to get a paycheck given how often he is out injured. I wouldn't have him in the squad. Years at Munster and he couldn't get ahead of O'Callaghan. Muldowney should have been brought instead.

I vaguely remember Ryan was bizarrely starting for Munster and benching for Ireland while O'Callaghan was benching for Munster and starting for Ireland under Kidney

To say "he done well to get paycheck" is unfair to a player who put in some fantastic performances over the years. Maybe he could have done without this tour due to recent injuries but I wouldn't go writing him off yet.

I would have loved Muldowney to be involved, great player and deserves caps but not too be

LorMal

Clegg wrote: »

Hendo, McGrath, Heaslip, Murray and Jackson have led the charge in the two tests. They've also took an absolute battering over 160 minutes. God help them next week. They're irreplaceable at present so they'll all start. There's no one of similar quality to replace them.

Murray, while a good player, still gives away far too much possession with his box kicks. I'm sorry, I know I will be crucified for this opinion, but it is the truth.
He puts us under pressure far too often.

Billysays no

kuang1 wrote: »

If fukking only...

thanks

clsmooth

former total wrote: »

Back row for next week will be fascinating.

I assume Henderson will move back to the second row (or be rested) but Murphy, Ruddock and Heaslip have all been immense so if Stander comes back in, who loses out?

The whole pack will be interesting.. You could make an argument for the pack that started the first test.. Or maybe below
1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. Dillane
6. Stander
7. Ruddock
8. Heaslip

Subs
Bealham
Cronin
Furlong
Roux
Henderson

I'd start Ross as I just don't think he'll be much use on the bench, Furlong will have more impact. Maybe Henderson to get a break, he must be wrecked? Although he did only come back from injury not too long ago. Either him or Dillane to give power and pace off the bench. Hard to drop Ruddock after his performance today. Not just his power in contact, but intelligence with his footwork before contact (Henderson too).

Zzippy

jm08 wrote: »

Either Ryan or Toner has to start because they call the lineout. Its a match fitness issue with Ryan.

Roux is there for his scrummaging.

If it's a match fitness issue then clearly he's not fit to start. Those two sentences are self-contradictory.

jm08

Zzippy wrote: »

If it's a match fitness issue then clearly he's not fit to start. Those two sentences are self-contradictory.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I'm surprised he made a match day 23 at altitude considering the last match he played was against Connacht in the Pro12 in the middle of April where he was concussed. I would have thought he was there to provide opposition in training (and he is familar with the Ireland setup).

edit: maybe the reason Ryan was involved was because Schmit didn't expect Toner to last the 80 mins.

thebaz

Billysays no wrote: »

I'm sorry Zzippy. I'm simply gutted with this result. It was such a positive initial selection, to allow the lads fall apart on their feet. Lost for words

but you never stop moaning on about Murray .... the guy is different class - thats wher I stop taking you serious

kuang1

clsmooth wrote: »

I'd start Ross as I just don't think he'll be much use on the bench, Furlong will have more impact.

Totally agree.
I'd have:
McGrath Best Ross,
Henderson* Toner,
Stander Ruddock Heaslip.

* I can't figure out what Joe's plans are for the last test with Dillane/Henderson.
Did he rest Dillane today so as to start him and use Henderson as impact in the last 20? Or the other way round?
Or is Quin part of the last game's plans?

I honestly dunno.

Billysays no

pray tell why would you start mike ross or even have him in the 23. was i incorrect in stats in that he didn't even touch the ball in the first test. Madigan and ross are done. lets move on

wp_rathead

Billysays no wrote: »

pray tell why would you start mike ross or even have him in the 23. was i incorrect in stats in that he didn't even touch the ball in the first test. Madigan and ross are done. lets move on

Ross in 23 means no Kilcoyne in 23
Bealham can cover LH until then
When Buckley or Healy are back they can cover LH and Bealham can cover TH

thomond2006

There's no reason to go back to Ross after the scrum performance today.

Kilcoyne, Best, Furlong, Toner, Dillane, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander;
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Henshaw, Trimble, Payne

Cronin, McGrath, Bealham, Roux, Heaslip, Marmion, Olding, TOH

kuang1

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's no reason to go back to Ross after the scrum performance today.

Kilcoyne, Best, Furlong, Toner, Dillane, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander;
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Henshaw, Trimble, Payne

Cronin, McGrath, Bealham, Roux, Heaslip, Marmion, Olding, TOH

Ah thomond...seriously?
You'd start Killer?

Why? Based on his form, he's nothing more than an "in case of emergency break glass" player surely?

thomond2006

kuang1 wrote: »

Ah thomond...seriously?
You'd start Killer?

Why? Based on his form, he's nothing more than an "in case of emergency break glass" player surely?

I hear you, I'm basing it on McGrath being wrecked!

Teferi

Lol. I love it.

Your Tighthead Prop didn't touch the ball in a game so obviously you should drop him. Gas.

Zzippy

jm08 wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I'm surprised he made a match day 23 at altitude considering the last match he played was against Connacht in the Pro12 in the middle of April where he was concussed. I would have thought he was there to provide opposition in training (and he is familar with the Ireland setup).

edit: maybe the reason Ryan was involved was because Schmit didn't expect Toner to last the 80 mins.

You said either Toner or Ryan has to start, then said Ryan isn't match fit. You don't start a player short of match fitness in a test. Unless he's a guaranteed starter with a big drop in quality to the backup, like Murray or McGrath. Ryan is nowhere near that even when match fit.

kuang1

thomond2006 wrote: »

I hear you, I'm basing it on McGrath being wrecked!

Fair enough. But Ross is rested now so I assume he'll start Saturday.

Billysays no

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's no reason to go back to Ross after the scrum performance today.

Kilcoyne, Best, Furlong, Toner, Dillane, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander;
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Henshaw, Trimble, Payne

Cronin, McGrath, Bealham, Roux, Heaslip, Marmion, Olding, TOH

I'm going to be radical here and say marmion starts. he cant keep watching rugby for the rest of his life

The Rape of Lucretia

Billysays no wrote: »

I'm going to be radical here and say marmion starts. he cant keep watching rugby for the rest of his life

Mmmmmm........that's a novel thought. Interesting too. Dont think I've seen that possibility mentioned before. Good reasoning too.

But no.

vetinari

Overall, hard to say it's encouraging after blowing a 16 point halfway lead.
It's hugely embarrassing if you want to consider Ireland a top level team.
A lot of blame has to go to Schimdt in terms in terms of building a matchday squad that can last the pace.
Fielding a weakened team for this test has massively backfired.
South Africa will probably wallop us now in the third test.

Richard Hillman

Sorry if this was mentioned before but why was Willie Le Roux being booed?

jm08

Zzippy wrote: »

You said either Toner or Ryan has to start, then said Ryan isn't match fit. You don't start a player short of match fitness in a test. Unless he's a guaranteed starter with a big drop in quality to the backup, like Murray or McGrath. Ryan is nowhere near that even when match fit.

OK, I'll clarify. One of either Toner or Ryan needs to be on the pitch. Fairplay to Toner that he has lasted the 80 mins.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's no reason to go back to Ross after the scrum performance today.

Kilcoyne, Best, Furlong, Toner, Dillane, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander;
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Henshaw, Trimble, Payne

Cronin, McGrath, Bealham, Roux, Heaslip, Marmion, Olding, TOH

Roux was huge in the scrum today. He will need to start again though.

All the lads will be flying next week after their high altitude training this week.

Is Henshaw fit?

Billysays no

vetinari wrote: »

Overall, hard to say it's encouraging after blowing a 16 point halfway lead.
It's hugely embarrassing if you want to consider Ireland a top level team.
A lot of blame has to go to Schimdt in terms in terms of building a matchday squad that can last the pace.
Fielding a weakened team for this test has massively backfired.
South Africa will probably wallop us now in the third test.

that's unfair. joe played a good team. he just didn't refresh. it was the same in the first test. when will he learn to use a match day 23

kuang1

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Sorry if this was mentioned before but why was Willie Le Roux being booed?

Because he was poor in the first test, and managed to be even worse than that on the first 40 today.
That SA crowd today was v fickle.

jm08

Billysays no wrote: »

that's unfair. joe played a good team. he just didn't refresh. it was the same in the first test. when will he learn to use a match day 23

Marmion is probably a bit unlucky that Sexton didn't travel. Hard to see Schmidt letting a Jackson & Marmion halfback partnership lose on the Boks, though in fairness to Jackson he has been very good.

thomond2006

kuang1 wrote: »

Fair enough. But Ross is rested now so I assume he'll start Saturday.

Furlong was really good. Why revert to Ross?