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you should just "GET OVER" ever owning a home says PP boss



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,140 ✭✭✭ocallagh

    With a mortgage, you own an asset . This represents significant risk early on for you, but hopefully appreciates with inflation, while your costs don't. You also pay 2 or 3% a year at present (should be lower!). You have the option to pay off your principal while you earn, helping to prepare financially for retirement. No CGT either... it's not a bad investment option, let alone the security it brings as a family home. Plus, you'll be in the same boat as the people making policy decisions - always a good place to be.

    Compare that with renting. It is lower risk up front, but you're paying much higher rates (rental yields are currently 5% or 6%) for life on an asset that will likely increase with inflation. You have limited security, and no clear option for retirement.

    It would take a big enough swing in interest rates, rental yields/property prices and government policy (improved security and financing help for retirement) to make sense to rent for life.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe

    .......because it's your door, your roof over your head, your safe place, yours to decorate as you please and you can't be thrown out because a landlord wants to squeeze you for more rent. It's your fallback security, too.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2

    If I had my way, anyone who uses the phrase 'Ireland Inc.' would be sent to a gulag in outermost Siberia.

    It's Celtic Tiger patois and gives me flashbacks of Gavin Lambe Murphy and Amanda Brunker on a hovercraft on the Liffey drinking cheap prosecco for a photocall promoting Eircom shares.

  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    And prompt evictions of scumbags and if in arrear 3 months

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles

    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which. (George Orwell animal farm)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭FishOnABike

    Quite agree.

    When I signed as guarantor for my daughter's rent when she was studying the required monthly income was three times the liable rental amount.

    If we use the same income : rent ratio, even with two people sharing a two bedroom apartment is PayPal willing to pay its employees €4.5k to €7.5k per month, index linked to rental inflation so they can afford to rent in perpetuity? I have a bridge I'd like to sell.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad

    There's a limited amount of good quality rental units, the problem is many young people may never have a choice, house prices go up every year, they may never have the chance to save up for a deposit and apply for a mortgage. There's was always a deal go to school get educated get a job buy a home if this promise changes many young people will never have children living in rental units is not ideal if the rent goes up every few years some country's have rent control and a well funded social housing system

    We are in a housing crisis with not enough new housing units being built if the government does not tackle this young people will punish them by voting for sinn fein or a party that has a good house building plan

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,950 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34

    With the cost of battery electric technology, we won't own cars in ten years either, they will be leased only.

    And its eminently normal to rent for life in other countries, with excellent protections of course.

    With a mortgage you do NOT own the asset, it is merely securitised, so who cares, you're always going to be paying some sort of lender.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious

    The government has created an artificial scarcity of houses by making it hard to get planning permission and insisting the houses are built in a very expensive way.

    It's all a load of sh1t. They want people to work for 30 years to pay for a brick box so the banks have a steady income. There is no technical reason there can't be an abundance of comfortable houses in Ireland for less than 100k

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭Glaceon

    Up until 2016 I would have agreed with you but that all changed when I found myself turfed out of a 6 year rental through no fault of my own. The landlord's bank had repossessed the building. Due to the high rents I found myself back in a house share at the age of 32 and I hated it.

    From then on, I made it my goal to buy and now my wife and I have gone sale agreed on a new build. Yes, we're still paying back the bank but the mortgage is €300 per month cheaper than the current rent we're paying. I'm looking forward to the comfort that we won't be forced out of the house again. I'm also looking forward to the simple things like having our own furniture and not having to think twice about putting a picture up on the wall.

    If Ireland is being pushed towards a "rent for life" model then a lot of things need to change. Long term leases will be a must and unfurnished leases should also be an option.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Skyrimaddict

    As someone who rented in the Nordics before and Ireland, we really are at nothing here.

    Over there, rent is a set amount based on the size of the unit and finish and location. You will of course pay more for a 4 bed house/apt in the middle of Oslo than you do out of the smaller cities.

    They fix your rent from the start of the process so you know what you are going to pay at years 1-3-5. There is an option of review after 5 based on inflation. The LL has a responsibility to upkeep the property but as a tenant if you do work you can also claim some money back.

    There is an understanding that the rent is only a percentage cost of the rent on your overall pay ( which is usually good)

    Overall its a very simple and comfortable process, which gives some protection to both sides, you as a tenant have to keep the place clean and references are checked all the time.

    Here, LL can put up the rent when they feel like it, if you live in a RPZ they just say they selling the house and then dont. You cant really force them to fix things or maintain the place, they in turn get taxed to the hilt to keep the property. Its a sh1t show here.

    I say this as a LL also, and to be fair I have great tenants and I am good to them, painting a few rooms every year or two on request, reasonable rent which is around 10% lower than similar, 6 month visual inspections, I fix things within 5 days of notice.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles

    Will I be renting my underpants from some multi trillion euro conglomerate in the future too.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition

    Having a country where most people are owner occupiers is by far the best option. All this stuff about renting in other countries; that model just isn't as good as having a system where most people own their own homes.

    The State getting out of homebuilding has not worked unfortunately, the Irish market has been a mess for over 20 years now, and some people have got rich, but many more have ended up being put through incredible stress. Really there has been a social emergency for at least four years now and the State needed to become far more active in the market, but I think a laissez faire approach is too engrained in our politicians, even at a time when people can't even afford to rent!

    Protection for renters isn't really the answer, making the purchase of a house a realistic option for anyone who has a full time job is what's required.

    While I don't like SF, who have delayed a united Ireland through a futile murder campaign, they're going to end up in Government almost solely because they realise that the Government have to take a far bigger role. FF and FG just have no sense of urgency at all about it, whenever they speak about housing it's fairly clear they're going through the motions.

  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Skyrimaddict

    Also, owns a ball of houses down the Loais way !!!

  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Skyrimaddict

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭FishOnABike

    The big problem (one of several) is that currently renting is more expensive than the mortgage payment on a similar property.

    Rent tends to continue to increase in line with inflation, mortgage repayments decrease in real terms over time in line with inflation.

    Mortgages tend to be paid off before people retire when people's income drops. Rent (increasing with inflation) will continue to be due after retirement until you die.

    Unless the state can pay people's rent after they retire or provide them with highly subsidised or free housing it's just setting the fuse on a big ticking time bomb to create a situation where people cannot buy somewhere to live.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Ireland Inc. 🤢🤢😡

    They really do just consider this country one big industrial estate for the enrichment of themselves and their friends.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,140 ✭✭✭ocallagh

    I've heard this a few times, that Ireland is an outlier in terms of home ownership, and rent is far more normal in other countries. In terms of home ownership, we are about EU average, and have been for over 10 years.

    I don't think the technicality on the definition of ownership has any real bearing on the debate here. You benefit from any appreciation and you have considerable protection as the mortgage holder vs renting. There is very little difference between owning a house outright and having a mortgage on it (provided you pay it!).

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭FFVII

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,950 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34

    They. Who the eff are they?

    Are 'they' those that you are jealous of because you didn't study hard enough to be in one of those jobs that leads instead of follows, and 'they' did?

    Ireland is a great place of equal opportunities and yet the bang of entitled socialism off this and other threads is putrid.

    A socialism adopted as a comfort blanket to absolve prior laziness and guilt.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,965 ✭✭✭trashcan

    Took the words right out of my mouth. As soon as you read the words Ireland inc you know exactly what we’re dealing with here. Fecking plebs, imagine the cheek of them, wanting the security of their own home !!

  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]

    They didn't say Ireland was a great country for do business in for nothing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,045 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore

    It's gas how heaven and earth can be moved for issues that affect a microscopic number of people here because the issues are 'trendy', but a basic thing like having a roof over your head? Naw, a bit of ineffectual nipping around the edges so it looks like we are doing something.

  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    Some would say that's not gas or contradictory it's an accurate reflection of neoliberalism's priorities - strong on the theatrical social stuff, terrible on what really matters. In any reasonable hierarchy of social needs, housing would come before all else, on the same level as food and water. Governments would be focused on it relentlessly. I don't think it's simply a case of 'look over there' because they want to move the focus from what makes them look bad.. that's just part of it. More to the point is that they and their peers are not negatively impacted by it as much as others so they simply don't care. (And for the extra cyncial touch, the state of the Irish property market is a money maker for their peers.)

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭dublinman1990

    There has to be a point in whether the rents are going to become vastly unaffordable now to the verge of breaking point for most people at this stage. There is no way that this sort of stuff should be allowed to continue even if rent pressure zones are not making that much of a positive difference within the rental sector.

    You're seeing a 10% percent increase in rent outside of the RPZ's at the moment. When you see those figures being recorded because of inflation. That is something clearly very wrong & must be addressed urgently. When you see these figures being passed onto tenants in this day & age; you would probably recognize that evolving situation on inflation is contributing very badly to a fundamentally flawed & broken system that has to be tackled right from the top down.

    Even when Louise Phelan had said to her former PayPal employees that they should get over themselves when they are paying high rents all the time while they try to stay & work here. She is an individual that should learn that saying comments in that sort of manner to them should have unintended consequences in mind. She really has no idea how normal people unlike herself cannot tolerate to ever live in that elitest bubble of hers while they have priorities that are clearly more important to them at this point.

    Even the housing minister has said on public record to the Sunday World today that rents for housing are still way too high within RPZ's even though they cover 76% of the country. The remaining 24% of areas that are not covered in these zones could have the 2% cap on rent increases per year introduced on a nationwide basis very soon to try and keep the private rents from going out of control.

    As this would be a good thing to try & tackle the high rents in those areas of the country. How much good do you think it would be for tenants who live in them?

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit

    Why did she refer to is as Ireland Inc?

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,045 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore

  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    Ireland through and through....

    watch a problem develop and do nothing,

    Wait until problem becomes insurmontable and claim its only.natural its this way to absolve the political class of any responsibility,1st our health service and now housing......

    ,its entirely reasonable for people to want security of tenure and aspire to own a modest home,

    my folks paying like 60% tax and mad interest rates,could manage it off one wage from a factory....this isnt progress to.say it cant be done now

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition

    You’ve touched on something that isn’t focused on nearly enough.

    Forty years ago it was very common to have households with just one income and property was still affordable.

    Now there is no question of families being able to have just one worker if they want to buy a house.

    This is what political elites across the western world wanted, it views people not working as a waste of resources.

    It might sound Studenty, but the truth is working classes have been screwed over. Inequality has increased so much that working people can’t even afford a house now, that isn’t something anyone could have seen coming pre Celtic Tiger.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad

    There's an article in the Sunday business post this week, it says the government wanted house prices to go up to wipe out negative equity, the put in place reits property investment schemes. So what happens now is big corporations are buyng buying 100s of houses and renting them out , they pay very low tax on income versus an ordinary landlord

    This pushs young people out of the housing market they don't get the various tax credits that a vulture fund can use

    This has pushed prices up meaning young people under 30 will find it very hard to buy a house . They, ll be stuck living at home or paying high rent on mediocre accommodation

    I think it's a crisis when a garda or a nurse can't get a mortgage it also effects middle class young people not just working class people, saving a deposit on a 400k house is difficult for most people. The new regulations the government is bringing in may just encourage small landlords out of the market reducing rental supply even more the average landlord pays 40 per cent plus tax on rental income