Immigrant in London slams immigrants

Jayop

Winterlong wrote: »

I am surprised it is so low to be honest.

Actually I remembered the article wrongish. It's 10% in "the city of london" and lower in the other boroughs.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/may/26/revealed-9-rise-in-london-properties-owned-by-offshore-firms

Jayop

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

But people will say everybody who comes to Ireland has degrees, are doctors etc

Do they? I'm pro-immigration and I've never once heard someone say that. In fact anyone who knows any foreign people in Ireland will know that to be false. I think you may be mixing up people saying things like "without the foreign doctors our health service would collapse" and that's very true, but there's also loads of unskilled people coming in. Most of those who I know personally are still working and contributing.

You don't need a degree to contribute to society.

tipptom

I would like to see Britain voting OUT by a slim majority.


Britain going back to the EU and demanding and getting more escape clauses from EU powers and stupid nanny rules and then another referendum (a la Irelande)bringing them back in.


Then I would like to see all other member states demanding the same and break the EUs over arching ambition and give them a good bloody nose.


And maybe just maybe stop the ridiculous corrupt juggernaut that the EU has become before it is to late.

First Up

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

But people will say everybody who comes to Ireland has degrees, are doctors etc

I know immigrants with high qualifications who are working at lesser jobs because they would prefer to be earning than whinging.

The_Kew_Tour

First Up wrote: »

I know immigrants with high qualifications who are working at lesser jobs because they would prefer to be earning than whinging.

Good for them

First Up

tipptom wrote: »

I would like to see Britain voting OUT by a slim majority.


Britain going back to the EU and demanding and getting more escape clauses from EU powers and stupid nanny rules and then another referendum (a la Irelande)bringing them back in.


Then I would like to see all other member states demanding the same and break the EUs over arching ambition and give them a good bloody nose.


And maybe just maybe stop the ridiculous corrupt juggernaut that the EU has become before it is to late.

If Britain votes out they will get diddly squat. They will have to re-write a pile of laws, negotiate a trade deal with the EU as well as re-negotiate the sixty external trade deals that the EU has around the world of which they will no longer be part. The stock market and currency will plunge, there will be political upheaval and a flight of capital. The financial sector will up stocks and move elsewhere; that sector alone will lose a million jobs. (The good news is that those lucky enough to still have work will be faced with lower house prices because the commercial and private property markets will collapse too.)

The EU is a collection of member states that proceeds by agreement, not a juggernaut. The remaining members will take turns rubbing the UK's nose in the crap of their own making. The best they will get will be a deal like those of Norway or Switzerland, where they still have to comply with the majority of EU laws including competition and state aid and would still have to make a significant contribution to the EU budget.

Ireland did not vote to leave; we voted down two treaty amendments which were subsequently revised and approved. If you think Britain will be given the opportunity to "re-negotiate" from the outside, you are in cloud-cuckoo land and such tragic naivety is at the core of much of the Brexit campaign.

It will be a very very expensive lesson. They will have no seat at the table and as someone said "if you are not at the table, you are on it."

The_Kew_Tour

The world will end if they leave EU

But it won't. Life will go on. Things will just move in better direction in long run

ancapailldorcha

Jayop wrote: »

I think you may be misunderstanding me. I'm not arguing for greater construction control, in fact I agree with you that there should be more construction (in Dublin high rise preferably) but that when they build all these new homes they need to ensure that they won't be left empty. If someone is buying to speculate then they should be forced to rent it out.

Agreed. Ultimately, we need more housing in both countries.

WarZ

That guy in an absolute moron.

ancapailldorcha

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Things will just move in better direction in long run

Can you prove this?

K-9

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Agreed. Ultimately, we need more housing in both countries.

Developers will only do it if there are enough profits in it which means the days of affordable housing are over realistically.

Can't remember who it was, but the guy who worked for a Government agency suggesting compulsory purchase of empty housing units at the housing committee was brilliant.

It'll never happen but it's thinking outside the box and not the usual stuff.
Look at the modular housing thing. A scam I tell ya Joe.

K-9

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Can you prove this?

Hmmm. Don't why people bother asking tbh.

tipptom

First Up wrote: »

If Britain votes out they will get diddly squat. They will have to re-write a pile of laws, negotiate a trade deal with the EU as well as re-negotiate the sixty external trade deals that the EU has around the world of which they will no longer be part. The stock market and currency will plunge, there will be political upheaval and a flight of capital. The financial sector will up stocks and move elsewhere; that sector alone will lose a million jobs. (The good news is that those lucky enough to still have work will be faced with lower house prices because the commercial and private property markets will collapse too.)

The EU is a collection of member states that proceeds by agreement, not a juggernaut. The remaining members will take turns rubbing the UK's nose in the crap of their own making. The best they will get will be a deal like those of Norway or Switzerland, where they still have to comply with the majority of EU laws including competition and state aid and would still have to make a significant contribution to the EU budget.

Ireland did not vote to leave; we voted down two treaty amendments which were subsequently revised and approved. If you think Britain will be given the opportunity to "re-negotiate" from the outside, you are in cloud-cuckoo land and such tragic naivety is at the core of much of the Brexit campaign.

It will be a very very expensive lesson. They will have no seat at the table and as someone said "if you are not at the table, you are on it."

That statement in bold is rather amusing and only something that the likes of leeches like Pat Cox and Peter Sutherland who bandwagon on anything that will gain them more pensions and directorships could come up with.


The rest is mostly scare tactics that the like of Enda Kenny heard from a fella with a pint in each hand while looking on at the army surrounding ATMs and the unpaid nurses tipping old and young people out of trollys.

The_Kew_Tour

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Can you prove this?

First of all they won't have bailout the Euro

No deliberate design, instead a design economically and socially that Britain want to provide for the themselves

Britain pay 17 billion alone in trademembership

Skylinehead

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

First of all they won't have bailout the Euro

No deliberate design, instead a design economically and socially that Britain want to provide for the themselves

Britain pay 17 billion alone in trademembership

And how much do they gain in free trade to the EU?

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

First of all they won't have bailout the Euro

No deliberate design, instead a design economically and socially that Britain want to provide for the themselves

Britain pay 17 billion alone in trademembership

Short piece on free trade

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/the-truth-about-britains-trade-outside-the-european-union/

12Phase

It's entirely dependent on what deal the uk can make with the EU members. There's going to be a massive issue if they think they can just behave as a semi-detached tax and regulatory haven, which is what the Swiss largely do.

Switzerland gets away with it on grandfather rights as that's just how it's done. However, I don't think Britian is likely to due to the sheer scale of its economy, allowing a former member that size to undermine the club's finances is unlikely to work out.

First Up

tipptom wrote: »

That statement in bold is rather amusing and only something that the likes of leeches like Pat Cox and Peter Sutherland who bandwagon on anything that will gain them more pensions and directorships could come up with.


The rest is mostly scare tactics that the like of Enda Kenny heard from a fella with a pint in each hand while looking on at the army surrounding ATMs and the unpaid nurses tipping old and young people out of trollys.

It also happens to be true. The minimum needed for any decision is Qualified Majority voting which requires at least 55% of member states representing 65% of the EU population. Some other decisions require unanimity.

The "scare tactics" include matters of simple fact. The "Withdrawal" mechanism is clearly set out in Article 50 of the Treaty. Britain would have two years to extract itself from the EU legal, financial, energy, IPR, litigation and employment laws among others. It means unraveling and replacing large parts of the 1972 European Communities Act involving literally thousands of pieces of legislation. You think that a post-Brexit Europhobe government - comprising inexperienced (and incredibly naive) politicians will have the time, inclination or ability to "re-negotiate" a better deal at the same time?

As well as its internal legal code, Britain would have to re-negotiate its terms of trade with the entire world. The rules of WTO, EEA, EFTA and EU are clear and the Norwegian, Swiss precedents are there to be seen. The EU has arrangements in place with other countries such as Turkey and, Iceland that offer easily understood illustrations of what is possible - and what isn't.

As for the financial sector, do you seriously think that international financial institutions will continue to service EU markets from outside the EU? Do you think that the EU would allow it? This topic has been exhaustively analysed and there is unanimity that it is the most exposed and vulnerable part of the UK economy - and one that is heavily populated by Tories.

Simplistic nonsense about "re-negotiating" a better deal after Brexit (while the other member states sit and watch?) is grand for Boards but at some point this topic needs to be taken over by adults.

RDM_83 again

The EU is good for the UK and vice-versa, I understand why some left wingers would want to leave because there is huge flaws but they seem to forget how the Left managed to loose a General election they should have by rights won, things would be much worse if the Conservatives had a free reign not constrained by EU legislation.

Migration is a big issue, any polling says across political opinions, age, background and social class British people want reduced migration, the problem is neither of the two big parties want to tackle it, Conservatives want to appear to tackle it but high rates suit their big business friendly agenda, Labour aren't trusted about it because of their ideology.

The stay camp would be much stronger if they made a concerted effort to differentiate EU and Non-EU migration, EU migration is arguably pretty beneficial economically and doesn't cause so much social problems, the issue is that argument isn't used because then they would have to address Non-EU migration (which would loose Labour lots of votes in the communities they have courted, and would make the Tories seem lax on migration in general)

ancapailldorcha

K-9 wrote: »

Hmmm. Don't why people bother asking tbh.

You'd think I'd have learned by now, K....

jmayo

For ever odd wrote: »

1) Why was he looking for work at 15 years of age?
2) Judging from the photo, he was 15 around 20-25 years ago (guess), there were hardly any immigrants coming to Ireland at that time; And Mayo was hardly the number 1 destination to those that did.

Maybe if you knew a bit about the social history of Ireland, and the likes of Mayo in particular, you might know people pre the 1970s left school after Primary and did not attend secondary school.
Even then during the 80s lots of people were still leaving school around Inter Cert and going to work, often as apprentices.
Wholesale third level education for a lot of students only became common place in the late 80s and 90s.

He was not talking about immigrants to Ireland I think, but immigrants to Britain.
By the looks of him he may have emigrated in the late 70s or 80s and depending on the timing have arrived in Britain during their pre bust 80s building boom.

steddyeddy wrote: »

All equally scum IMHO.

I found it interesting this post was thanked by a moderator. :rolleyes:

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

But people will say everybody who comes to Ireland has degrees, are doctors etc

Jaysus Kew don't you know that is just the Syrian refugees.

ancapailldorcha

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Short piece on free trade

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/the-truth-about-britains-trade-outside-the-european-union/

With no sources for the important claims.

tipptom

First Up wrote: »

It also happens to be true. The minimum needed for any decision is Qualified Majority voting which requires at least 55% of member states representing 65% of the EU population. Some other decisions require unanimity.

The "scare tactics" include matters of simple fact. The "Withdrawal" mechanism is clearly set out in Article 50 of the Treaty. Britain would have two years to extract itself from the EU legal, financial, energy, IPR, litigation and employment laws among others. It means unraveling and replacing large parts of the 1972 European Communities Act involving literally thousands of pieces of legislation. You think that a post-Brexit Europhobe government - comprising inexperienced (and incredibly naive) politicians will have the time, inclination or ability to "re-negotiate" a better deal at the same time?

As well as its internal legal code, Britain would have to re-negotiate its terms of trade with the entire world. The rules of WTO, EEA, EFTA and EU are clear and the Norwegian, Swiss precedents are there to be seen. The EU has arrangements in place with other countries such as Turkey and, Iceland that offer easily understood illustrations of what is possible - and what isn't.

As for the financial sector, do you seriously think that international financial institutions will continue to service EU markets from outside the EU? Do you think that the EU would allow it? This topic has been exhaustively analysed and there is unanimity that it is the most exposed and vulnerable part of the UK economy - and one that is heavily populated by Tories.

Simplistic nonsense about "re-negotiating" a better deal after Brexit (while the other member states sit and watch?) is grand for Boards but at some point this topic needs to be taken over by adults.

Maybe its escaped your attention but Britain has already re=negotiated a better deal for Britain while other member states "sat and watched" and it is very possible they will do again if the vote stacks that way because the EU are desperate for them to stay in.


We all know the EU will change and allow rules to be bent for certain country's and will force through the will of certain country's and bribe and scare smaller country's to this way but "adults"like you believe this is all very democratic of course.


The condescending and insulting statement that"at some point the topic needs to be taken over by adults" says it all for the type of people who try to scare voters to keep this corrupt gravy train going.


The EU needs a complete top to bottom overhaul and this could be the best and only opportunity to achieve that.

First Up

tipptom wrote:

Maybe its escaped your attention but Britain has already re=negotiated a better deal for Britain while other member states "sat and watched" and it is very possible they will do again if the vote stacks that way because the EU are desperate for them to stay in.

They didn't sit and watch. They were at the table and gave him enough to save face but a lot less than he wanted. The rest of the EU (and most of the world) is keen that they remain because they understand the consequences of a Brexit a lot better than those who are pushing for it. They know that Brexit would not be good for anyone but it would be catastrophic for Britain.

tipptom wrote:

We all know the EU will change and allow rules to be bent for certain country's and will force through the will of certain country's and bribe and scare smaller country's to this way but "adults"like you believe this is all very democratic of course.

Adults like me appreciate that a union of twenty seven diverse economies and cultures involves give and take and raises complex issues for which perfect solutions are rare. But if you want to demonstrate how the EU has been a bad thing for Ireland or Europe as a whole, I'm all ears.

tipptom wrote:

The condescending and insulting statement that"at some point the topic needs to be taken over by adults" says it all for the type of people who try to scare voters to keep this corrupt gravy train going.

I'm referring mostly to the idiotic and blatantly wrong claims from the Brexit side and the glaring gaps in their understanding of the topic. But if you want to take offence too, I won't try to stop you.

tipptom wrote:

The EU needs a complete top to bottom overhaul and this could be the best and only opportunity to achieve that.

The EU could certainly be improved and your specific recommendations will be welcome. How you see Britain leaving contributing to this would be interesting too.

For sheer peace, I hope they just vote to go and thus kill the perennial whingemachine of europhobia. A news blackout on the whinging would be most welcome. Many people seem to be oblivious to Britain actually setting up a rival to the EEC named the EFTA and it failing which resulted in Britain coming cap in hand to the EEC in 1973 looking for membership. Bitterness and nationalism/inability to accept the decline of Empire has made Britain a fifth column in the EU since day one.

As for immigration, the pro-Brexit scapegoating of the EU on this issue is the most egregiously blinkered of all. It is, in fact, the demands of wealthy British business people and their Tory representatives who have brought in millions of low-wage immigrants into Britain since the end of WW II. It is this dependence on foreign labour that has kept wages lower for Britain's poor. The British poor have been sold out by the British rich and their political class. It is also that class which own the British tabloid media which scapegoats foreigners. What a coincidence. And, of course, it's not like the immigrants are going to be living in places where the powerful live - they'll live in communities next to people who feel economically threatened by their arrival. How many wealthy business people or politicians or liberals live in such areas? Completely sold out by "their own", but they blame foreigners for this.

In 2004, for instance, when 10 new countries joined the EU the existing members had strong restrictions on labour. Britain (and Ireland and Sweden) decided to allow citizens of the ten new countries to work there straight away. British politicians made that decision for internal British economic reasons. The vast, vast majority of EU countries chose not to accept them. Today, there are almost 1 million Polish-born people in Britain. And then the people from the other nine countries who took advantage of the British economy's need for cheap labour in 2004.

This hypocrisy of scapegoating the EU is only matched by the ignorance of what section of British society is responsible for the huge immigration into Britain since the end of WW II.

Thatcher, the hero of the flag-waving plebs, personified in 1987 the mentality which created this entire mess: ".... They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society." The British rich and their politicians run an economy, give lipservice to nationalism and this deludes the plebs into thinking the powerful are not the greatest force undermining the creation of a society. For Britain's powerful, cheap foreign labour trumps the creation of a society any day, and scapegoating foreigners for this very Thatcherite choice is par for the course. All a very embarrassing duping for an outsider to witness.

biko

Maguined wrote: »

Whether you are for or against remaining in the EU you simply cannot deny that being part of the EU means you do not have full control over immigration policies for your own country.

Never mind them. They're happy to have unelected politicians in Belgium dictate their lives and for everything to be kept secret from them.

The poster before me used the term europhobia, like if disliking having someone else write your country's laws is suddenly irrational.

Maybe he wants to join the EU army that was never supposed to happen but now is on the cards.

First Up

biko wrote: »

Never mind them. They're happy to have unelected politicians in Belgium dictate their lives and for everything to be kept secret from them.

Nothing like a nice bit of nonsense to kick off the day's debate.

First Up

Deleted User wrote: »

For sheer peace, I hope they just vote to go and thus kill the perennial whingemachine of europhobia. Bitterness and nationalism/inability to accept the decline of Empire has made Britain a fifth column in the EU since day one.

It's hard not to have some sympathy with this and the schadenfreude will be flowing in abundance if they do.

However there is no disguising that Brexit would have many damaging consequences for the rest of us too - not least in Ireland.

ancapailldorcha

biko wrote: »

Never mind them. They're happy to have unelected politicians in Belgium dictate their lives and for everything to be kept secret from them.

The poster before me used the term europhobia, like if disliking having someone else write your country's laws is suddenly irrational.

Maybe he wants to join the EU army that was never supposed to happen but now is on the cards.

Any examples of Brussels politicians dictating our lives or a European army coming to fruition? To be honest, if this is the sort of scaremonger Eurosceptics have to resort to, I'd vote remain just to stick 2 fingers up to them.

"I'm tired of paying my golf club membership, I don't feel like I'm getting great value from it."
"Sure just leave and then say you want to rejoin for less money and you want a free bar and get first choice of tee-times."
"Yes, that will work."