Still trying to figure it all out.

Singer

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Home, wrecked and a bit annoyed. The start of the half went the wrong way - we ran an extra 0.4 miles into oncoming marathoners and relay runners. Garmin time was 1:39:36 and would have been 1:36:36 had we gone the right way. The heat and humidity really got to me. Felt a bit ill to be honest. I also tripped about 2 or so miles in and went flying but luckily laned on grass. I'll do a full report tomorrow.

That's a lot of stuff to go wrong, but still a decent time! Well done.

denis b

That is disappointing HBS. Hard enough grafting out there today without having to worry about where you are.

Mrs Mc

Bummer HBS that is such a mess up.

Mrs Mc

Bummer HBS that is such a mess up.

hot buttered scones

After a busy week I though it was time time to update my log with a late report from Monday's Cork Half.

Not a great preparation. I didn't sleep much the night before - maybe about 4 hours. So I was up at 5:30, watched a bit of TV, showered, had breakfast etc. I was surprisingly nervous considering I had been telling myself that this wasn't a goal race. I headed into town in time to catch the marathon leaders go past (about 3.5 miles done for them) and watched a few friends and colleagues go past then headed over to the City hall to drop off the bag. I was feeling quite good at this stage - it was warm but there was a very slight cool breeze, it felt ok.
45 minutes to go - jogged the half mile to Kennedy Park very, very easy. Did some easy drills and activation exercises and some dynamic stretches. Queued for the loos and off to do the warmup proper - about 1 mile around the start area, just jogging really relaxed to keep moving and loose. I stopped for a bit to watch the marathon leaders go past. By this stage it had warmed up a bit, and I was starting to wonder about my plan. Then I saw the 1:30 pacers - I just decided to go with them for a bit. I knew full I'd loose them over the drags out the southside, but I thought I;d be able to get back on pace over the closing few miles. So in my head the target was 1:32.

Miles 1-3
6:40, 6:46, 7:11
The gun went on off we went - err, I thought we were supposed to take the first left, maybe I was wrong so it'll be left and left again. What??? Left and right??? Hang on this is the full course. Sh*t thats E*** B***** coming against us - he looks p*ssed off!!. We'd gone wrong. It was mayhem - the pacers were looking around at each other, there were streams of half marathoners on both sides of the road. Anyway we got back on course and straight away I heard some guy echo my thoughts - well that's the PB gone anyway. I tired to stick with the pace felt too hot so I watched as the little green ballons dissappeared off into the distance. We passed the 1st mile marker and my watch said 1.43 miles. M y head was all over the place. I could still see the pacers and I though if I could just keep the in sight I'd be ok. It was begin to feel to hot already so I backed off another bit as we headed down Monahan road towards the Atlantic pond. Then all of a sudden at around 2.5 miles I felt my right toe catch on something and the next thing I knew I was on the ground and my glasses had gone flying. I recovered the glasses, got up, told the person behind my who'd asked that I was ok and took of. My left arm and shoulder had some small bruise from where I'd landed on some small stones. As I ran I felt a sharp pain down my right leg - sort of in the IT band area. I thought my day might be over, but I kept running to see if it would get better. I have the 3rd mile as 7:11 pace - actaully I was doing around 6:45 for most of this mile, but really slowed down coming up out of the Atlantic pond and around the hairpin to get onto the Marina and the full course. We passed the first water stop and I took a bottle - drank some of and poured some over the back of my neck. I was overheating already. My HR was 162, 173 and 178 for these 3 miles. I hit more or less HR max coming out of the Atlantic Pond (there's a very short "hill" there) so thing weren't going well. We headed out the Centre Park Road. It was very humid, but we had some shade from the trees. Unfortunately the very leafy trees always play havoc with my GPS so my pace was jumping all over the place, so I just maintained the effort

Miles 4-6
6:54,7:12,7:15 177bpm, 178bpm, 176bpm
Mile 4 was along the Centre Park Road and up Victoria Road to Albert Quay. I'd forgotten about my leg, and was focussed on running, trying not to get caught up with slower marathoners. This mile felt ok despite the high HR (which I wasn't monitoring) - but it was getting hot Took a gel at 4 miles. Mile 5 was along the South Link. This is a dual carriageway with no pedestrain access ,so I hadn't run it since the marathon last year. I remember it feeling flatter. I just dragged. I slowed down, and again my GPS was taking the mick, reading 8:43 pace at one point, but I definelty wasn't doing that. I tried to run a good line here, and I think I just followed a couple of halfers running at my pace. Jesus, the slip road off up to Turners Cross nearly killed me - my Hr spiked to 182 when I come to the top of it. Mile 6 Curragh road and Tramore Road. Uggh. This was tough. The start of Curragh Road was the last time I felt anything resembling comfortable. I felt so much hotter now. From here on it was tough to drink - maybe two mouthfuls. The rest went over my head, neck, shoulder. I'd soak my vest and feel better for about a mile until the next stop. Curragh road was ok - warm but with a bit of a cool headwind. I turned the corner onto Tramore road and tried to follow the line. I could see nearly everyone ahead of me veering to the left - into the shade - and I was soon following. I nearly melted. The sun had come out in full force now and the humidity was stifling. My pace dropped off and I quit mentally. Therr was no PB, no chance of a good time, the race was meaningless and I was close to pulling up and quiting
Miles 7-9
7:39, 7:36, 7:51 173bpm, 169bpm, 167bpm
Lower Friars Walk. Or Everest? Ok 30 feet over less than 400m. Barely noticable on a good day almost broke me today. I had given up by the time I got to Pearse road. Decided to really back off. I looked at my watch and saw 7:4x. then I stopped looking at my watch for the rest of the race really. I felt sick, almost dizzy. I walked in order to take another gel. I couldn't breathe and mu lungs were burning. My legs were ok, I just felt hot and breathless. I don't remember much about who I passed or who passed me. I wasn't racing anymore, just enduring. I was constantly fighting an internal monologue telling me to quit. I slowed down until the effort felt bareable. Decision - It's too hot, don't make a b*lls of the rest of the season by overdoing a meaningless b*alls up of a race - slow down. When I got to the Lough I soaked myself with water. Again I drank only half the bottle if even. They had sponges which were gorgeous. Up Hartlands avenue then at about 7:50 to 8:00 pace. I think I just followed some marathoners here. Mile 8 had a good bit of downhill, were I was able to pick up the pace a little without raising the HR. I was going purely by effort know without really checking my pace as I just didn't care. Looking at the data I was struggling to break 7min/mile even going downhill except for the very steepest part. Another sharp short hill up onto the Wilton road. I was barely hanging onto 8min pace here. Mile 9 was the 2nd half of the Wilton Road and then the Model Farm Road - a small descent followed by a long drag. In short it sucked. Couldn't even get to Marathon pace going up Model Farm Road. The downhill section past Mount Mercy offered very little relief. With it the last relay change over point and a water stop. Another soaking, I knew now that the hardest part of the course was over. This cheered me up a bit. There was no more thoughts of dropping out - it was easier to finish.
Miles 10-12
7:40, 7:54, 7:39 167bpm, 164bpm, 167bpm
Mile 10: The rest of the Model Farm road and Inchigaggin lane
At last some downhill. I was at least feeling a bit better. There's sharp enough (and short) descent past the Tennis Village that I was looking forward to. I skipped the past gel - didn't need or want it. There was about 1/2 mile of flattish ground to cover first - which I did at roughly 8 min pace. Then the hill. About 400m of pure sub 7 bliss. Inchigaggin lane start with a small rise and then dips off. Its very much covered by trees and the air just felt thick and heavy here again so I just couldn't speed up - so just dipping under 8 here. There was a water stop at the end and they had Lucozade sport - about 100mls in cup. It felt cold and lovely and so so drinkable. The water went over my head again.
Mile 11. On the home stretch now back in the Straight Road. I started looking at the watch again. I flagged abit at the start if this mile. There was a cooling wind (yay!!) but it was a headwind (boo!!). So I'd push for a bit and then slow and so on. Still a very slow mile
Mile 12. Straight Road to the Mardyke. Got a roar from a lad from work just by the Kingsley Hotel. I got a great boost from this so I upped the pace a bit here. Went from doing about 8:30 to about 7:30. I felt like I was cruising going up the Mardyke. Pushing it a bit and knowing I was nearly done
Miles 13 - 13.54
7:26, 7:04 (3:44mins) 168bpm, 172bpm
Mile 13 Along the Mardyke to the North Quays.
Flying know, passing a few. Felt really bad though, uncomfortable and hot. There was a sub 1:40 on the cards and pride kicked in too. I was heading back into the City Centre and wanted to get something form the day. I went down the walkway by the old distillery and broke out onto the quay doing sub 7 pace on the flat for the first time since mile 4. I surged again across the North Gate Bridge out on Kyrls Quay, but slowed down a bit again
The last leg - 13.54 miles.
Another surge for about 200m and I had reached half marathon distance in 1:36:36 and I still had a bit to go yet. I couldn't wait to finish. The pace dipped again to about 7:40-8:00. I could hear the crowds along Lavitts Quay and I picked it up. Then the roars of encouragement. I heard a my name being called - a neighbour of mine and pushed again. As I turned the corner onto Patrick Street I saw my family all happy and waving and cheering and I put the hammer down and did my sprint finish. The only problem was I lasted about 100m and there was still 100m more to go!! Still a strong enough finish though for a time of 1:39:36. Met a few guys in the finish pen and everyone was raging at the cock up made at the start

Analysis. Tough day at the office. Was definetly found out. I lost the head and lost focus, so I wasn't ever going to push during that tough Middle section. I was totally overcome by the humidity on the day. I made a good decision to back when I felt unwell. I was nowhere near my best. My training hadn't been great for the previous 4 weeks- missed days, blown up during workouts. Got sick and had a couple of race performances that could have been a bit better. Looking back I think I had peaked for the 25k Great Railway Run back in mid April. I thought I could just continue that form on and jump into a half marathon training plan half way through, but I didn't work and I have been just about maintaining fitness without really improving. A lot went wrong on the day too. I went out too fast. I didn't take the conditions into account as much as I should have. Lessons learnt. I 'm going to back off racing frequently and really get stuck into marathon training now (Although I am jumping into a 5k next week before Mara training starts). The next big test will probably be Charleville, but I might also look at a 5 miler in August. We'll see.

hot buttered scones

Post half Marathon week
Tuesday: Did 4 miles very easy, around 8pm in the shade. 9:39,9:15, 9:14, 9:05. then a full stretch and foam roll. I ran just to warm up for the stretch really
Wednesday&Thursday. 2 full days at work. No running.
Friday: 8.4 miles. Was supposed to be easy but ended up being a bit harder than that. Average pace 8:28, a big hill in the middle, and fast downhill finish. Felt good
Saturday: 6.2 miles before work. Easy enough. 8:32 but a lot cooler. Still suffered a bit of HR creep but the course was rolling - should have done this at about 9-9:15 pace though. I need to recover better and this kind of thing doesn't help

lenny palmer

By all accounts it was a hard day for running in Cork. Even with the day that was in it with the heat and the mix up at the start you still went sub 1.40. You seemed to have run sensible on a day the heat got to a lot of people. PB''s make us feel great but every race is different and you have to run each race on its own merits.

Mrs Mc

Sounds like you along with a lot of others had a tough day and a fall on top of that didn't help. As everyone says around these parts chalk it up to experience learn lessons from the race write it off and move onto the next challenge. Well done

Murph_D

Good report. Not a bad run at all under the circumstances - tracks quite well with my own experience over the full. A decent time in the end for the 13.6 miles on the day. I'd take heart from it - you churned out some decent enough splits even when really feeling it.

FBOT01

Can't win them all, M. Glad you tough it out since it was your home town race. Bank it and move on. In relation to moving on you need to not only know that you should be running slower in your recovery period but you also need to do it

Take it handy and make sure you are good to go before you kick off your next marathon cycle.

hot buttered scones

lenny palmer wrote: »

By all accounts it was a hard day for running in Cork. Even with the day that was in it with the heat and the mix up at the start you still went sub 1.40. You seemed to have run sensible on a day the heat got to a lot of people. PB''s make us feel great but every race is different and you have to run each race on its own merits.

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Sounds like you along with a lot of others had a tough day and a fall on top of that didn't help. As everyone says around these parts chalk it up to experience learn lessons from the race write it off and move onto the next challenge. Well done

Murph_D wrote: »

Good report. Not a bad run at all under the circumstances - tracks quite well with my own experience over the full. A decent time in the end for the 13.6 miles on the day. I'd take heart from it - you churned out some decent enough splits even when really feeling it.

Cheers lads. Yes plenty of lessons learned. At the end of the day I finished well when suffering and wasn't the only one struggling. I finished in 115th place out of 2065, and was the 102nd man out of 1127. The website says I came 12th in my age group out of 102, but they seem to have gotten a lot of the age groups wrong - but if the website says I'll take it. 115th place in 2015 ran in 1:32:04, so while I was initially disappointed in my time, I'm happy with the placing.

FBOT01 wrote: »

Can't win them all, M. Glad you tough it out since it was your home town race. Bank it and move on. In relation to moving on you need to not only know that you should be running slower in your recovery period but you also need to do it

Take it handy and make sure you are good to go before you kick off your next marathon cycle.

Cheers FBOT01. I've no real niggles to speak of - just a bit of tightness here and there so I'll be getting a Sports massage and being best friends with the foam roller for a bit. As for the recovery runs, the aim will be to keep the HR below about 140. I struggle in the heat though, and I've found once it goes out of range its hard to get it back down. I'll work on it though. The 8ish miles was more in the GA range, with HR hitting Threshold as I climbed the hill (I did break into a walk at one stage). Plenty of slow running on grass if possible for me. As for long runs - I'm not inclined to go too far for the next couple of weeks. I'm taking today off because I'm coming off nights. I was thinking 10 or so miles easy on grass tomorrow, recovery Tuesday - maybe 30 or 40 minutes, then a 5k race on Wednesday. Then 2 more days rest while I'm on the day shift. After that I;m looking at starting the P+D plan a week or so early to build in a buffer week, and so I can take more rest days while on holidays. I'm still not sold on P+D though. I might be better off just base building with medium long runs to 15 miles and doing a 12 week plan. I also came across this plan while googling:

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/images/asics/ASICS_TRAININGPLANS_Sub%203.30.pdf

It seems ok to me, starts off on low enough mileage and builds to the kind of mileage I've been doing this year, and has a couple of half marathon races which fit in with local races. I might post it in the random running questions thread for some more feedback.

hot buttered scones

Monday: 12 miles @ 9:19/mile. I ran by HR trying to keep it below 140. It was OK for the first few mile and climbed to 160 briefly when I climbed a hill. It did creep above 140 by a few bpm for the last few miles. Started feeling hungry about mile 7 or 8 and really struggled from mile 9. I only had a slice of toast for breakfast, but usually that's not a problem. I had very little energy. It got fairly warm and humid as the run progressed which had a huge effect even though I drank 250ml of water every 3 miles. Just tired I reckon. Nothing major planned for Tuesday. Just some recovery miles at some stage.

HigginsJ

Really enjoying the thread, that half marathon day really ought to set you up for whatever challenges come up in future, fair play.

hot buttered scones

Tuesday 14th June
Went out in the evening to do some easy miles around a soccer pitch. The long and the short of it is I got involved with trying to find the owners of a lost dog and ended up running alongside the dog to make sure it got home. So 2 runs - run 1 2.7 miles @ 9:20, but with the last 5 minutes slightly faster as I went home to get my phone. The 3.1 miles broken up as I ran back to where the dog was then jogged with him until we found his owners - so 3.1@9:49, with mile 2 @ 11:38 as I jogged alongside the dog. So for proper recovery bring a slow dog with you. Total miles 5.8

Wednesday 15th June
There was loads of races on in Cork this week. I choose the Clonpriest 5k near Youghal - relatively flat, only €10 and chip timed - with one of those funny shoe tag things. Did a 2 mile warmup@9:17 with some small drills and a couple of strides
And then the race: The course was relativley flat, although the 1st mile was slightly downhill. The start was back from the village about 400m with a slight drag up to the village were there was a lot of local support. Of course this meant due to foolish bravado you couldn't slow down when you realised you were going a bit too fast. I was hanging on to the back of a large group as we turned the corner and the road began to drop a bit. I still felt good and knew the finish was a drag so I just thought I'd bank some time for the last mile. I dropped off the back of the group and settle into race pace for about the last 200m of the mile. Mile 1 was done in 5:57!!
Mile 2 - 6:29 Well, I struggled to hang on over the second half of this mile. The road was flat or slightly rising but ok. By the end of this mile my lungs were burning and my legs were on autopilot. HR maxed out at 188bpm twice during this mile.
Mile 3 - 6:42 A horrendous battle of wills between my lungs legs and mind to just keep moving. For about 400m after 2.5 mile I was barely doing over 7:10 and paying the price for my early exuberance. The last km felt like a huge drag when I was that tired and I ended up surging and slowing to keep up my average pace
The last bit - measured at 0.13 miles at 6:30 pace. I was dying now but within sight of the finish line I could see my goal was in reach and gave one last burst to the finish. I'm going with Chip time on this - 19:58!!! A PB by 8 seconds on tired legs and finally sub 20!!. I've been a bit obsessed with doing a sub 20 5k for a while now, although I've never really trained specifically for a 5k race. The box is ticked and I can move on from this now. I;m delighted with the PB. But there was also another surprise. This was a small local race to raise funds for the local scholl (great spread by the way) with 221 runners. I headed off home after my tea, sandwiches and cake. I received a text from a work colleague who was at the race to say I'd come third in my age group. Ok, so this was after prizes for the first 6 finishers some of would be in my age group I'd say and I was beaten some older guys too, but I was chasing a time not a place. This is the first time I'd won a prize at anything ever as an individual so I'm a bit chuffed.
So - it was a terribly run race by me, badly paced and I nearly gave up in the last mile (I've gotten mentally weaker this year in races for some reason) but I achieved my goal and won something. So I'm happy with the outcome and don't care at all about the tactics I used.

Finished with a 2 mile cool down with company in 8:34/mile

Thursday 16th
4 miles recovery @ 9:52/mile Woke at the crack of dawn and couldn't get back to sleep. I'd planned a lunchtime recovery run today, but I decided to just head into work early and have a bit of a jog around before work. So a 4 mile total out and back to the Naval Base. The legs were tired and like jelly and I ran out of steam after 3 miles. I hadn't eaten enough yesterday (felt a bit queasy on the way home last night) and had no breakfast yet so I was wrecked. Funny one though - I had to pick up the pace with about 400m to go to finish - it like I couldn't run at recovery pace anymore but I had small bit left at a higher gear. I have since demolished half the contents of the canteen and feel great now. :-)

Mrs Mc

Pb and age group placing call that a good day at the office ..... it must have been your good deed finding the lost dog !!!

denis b

Congrats HBS. Very entertaining report. The agony of effort jumps out :eek:. A little bit of me is wondering how a managed paced attempt would go for you . Ignore me as I think I am just pain averse

hot buttered scones

denis b wrote: »

Congrats HBS. Very entertaining report. The agony of effort jumps out :eek:. A little bit of me is wondering how a managed paced attempt would go for you . Ignore me as I think I am just pain averse

I'm wondering the same thing myself tbh, but that's for another day. It was a good blowout and I've gotten as bit of taste for racing again. I might race again next week, but more controlled. Whatever you do it's always going to hurt at some stage. I forgot to mention the dry heaving at the end. I think I might have scared the kiddies.

hot buttered scones

Friday 17th rest

Saturday 18th
Morning: Headed out to Ballincollig Parkrun for my first time to volunteer. I arrived about 8:30 to get a run in first and met some of the organisers/volunteers. So I did a freedom run with one of them. Nice course a in a lovely park that I didn't know the half of. Was supposed to be easy but we got a bit carried away - not too much though. 5k in 25 minutes

Afternoon: I had planned on running to park run and back into town but a late start meant that was off the cards so when I got home I went out for a few more miles. Was supposed to be easy but it didn't work out that way. I was just doing laps of the pitch and it turned into a progression run - 9:22, 8:42, 8:16, 7:11. Headed around the park and local area for some cool down miles. When I got back to the pitch I finished off with a few diagonals and jogged up the hill home. Total miles 7.1. Daily total 10.1

Sunday 19th

In between night shifts. 7 miles @8:35/mile - this is between easy and MP for me, so steady? A humid evening, but the HR stayed low enough, creeping slowly from 130ish at the start to just above 150 the end. Total weekly mileage: 46.5 Cumulative yearly mileage: 954.2

Monday 20th

Meh. Rest day. Maybe. Tired after nights.

hot buttered scones

Tuesday 21st

13.3 miles@9:03. A hard slog with a long hill in humid conditions. Average HR 157, higher when climbing. I struggled to keep the HR down. I would have cut it short if it wasn't for the fact it was out and back route and I had to get back to the car. Still, I bought a new camelbak bladder - fitted it into an Aldi running back pack - and got to test it out. It'll be good for holiday runs and runs to work, or those easy paced long runs where just wander about.

FBOT01

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Tuesday 21st

13.3 miles@9:03. A hard slog with a long hill in humid conditions. Average HR 157, higher when climbing. I struggled to keep the HR down. I would have cut it short if it wasn't for the fact it was out and back route and I had to get back to the car. Still, I bought a new camelbak bladder - fitted it into an Aldi running back pack - and got to test it out. It'll be good for holiday runs and runs to work, or those easy paced long runs where just wander about.

:eek: Did we miss something are you heading the ultra route??

Been away so have some catching up to do. Couple of questions:

Where the 140 HR target for easy runs come from?
Did you decide on what plan you are going with for DCM?
I might be misreading but you seem to do a bit of "supposed to be slow but end up faster than it should have been" type runs. Has this always been a factor in your training?

hot buttered scones

FBOT01 wrote: »

:eek: Did we miss something are you heading the ultra route??

Been away so have some catching up to do. Couple of questions:

Where the 140 HR target for easy runs come from?
Did you decide on what plan you are going with for DCM?
I might be misreading but you seem to do a bit of "supposed to be slow but end up faster than it should have been" type runs. Has this always been a factor in your training?

Ha ha!! No ultras for me (not yet anyway...) . I just think the camelback is handy for things like point to point easy long runs. It's easier than stashing bottles etc. It's about 15 miles to work for me, so I can put it in a running backpack along with my other stuff, and I'm going to have to do a few of those for DCM training. I also figured it would be handy for holidays - I plan on doing at least 2 longish runs (medium long I suppose) and I like to do a bit of exploring.

The 140 bpm thing - my resting HR is between 38 and 42 mostly. It's always been low, and has gotten lower since I got fit. My max HR (most recently measured at the point of thinking I might die during a 5k) is 186bpm. So a lot of different calculators give the recovery rate as in and around 140 or less. Also I just notice that when I take it very easy my HR hovers around 140 - although the heat has been effecting that.

Finally, running too fast has been a factor in my training - although I did get a handle on it last year. At the moment I'm not following a plan though - I definitely need the structure and discipline of a plan. I've myself not paying attention to the watch a lot lately - just giving it a cursory glance at the start and just judging the run off perceived effort - not consciously, my mind just wanders. Sometimes it seems I get it wrong. And then we have runs like last Saturday where the watch beeps, I see I've been running way too fast and just go with it and have a bit of a blow out. And because I'm not following a plan I'm not worried about being fresh for tomorrows session or long run. And some days if the conditions are right and I'm well rested very easy effort is just faster than other days (according to my somewhat arbitrary <140bpm scale).

While I have you I'd like to know your thoughts on a training plan. I've been thinking long and hard about the P+D 40-55 plan and I'm just concerned that I;m biting off more than I can chew this time around. It is going to be hard to fit some of the longer sessions in around work and it might be that this plan would suit me more for a Spring marathon - just because it's cooler. I have been looking at a very generic plan to get me to sub 3:30:

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/images/asics/ASICS_TRAININGPLANS_Sub%203.30.pdf

It's got everything, it's definitely not intimidating, it seems to match up with my summer racing plans, and I can fit it in around my holidays - which are 3 weeks longs btw.

Now - all the race predictors out there are telling me to got for something in and around 3:15 or so - and that's based off a 25k race time (1:50:xx). However my marathon PB is 3:38:39. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to knock that much time off. 3:30 was my goal last year and it will be my goal this year and I think I can achieve it if I train properly.

FBOT01

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Ha ha!! No ultras for me (not yet anyway...) . I just think the camelback is handy for things like point to point easy long runs. It's easier than stashing bottles etc. It's about 15 miles to work for me, so I can put it in a running backpack along with my other stuff, and I'm going to have to do a few of those for DCM training. I also figured it would be handy for holidays - I plan on doing at least 2 longish runs (medium long I suppose) and I like to do a bit of exploring.

The 140 bpm thing - my resting HR is between 38 and 42 mostly. It's always been low, and has gotten lower since I got fit. My max HR (most recently measured at the point of thinking I might die during a 5k) is 186bpm. So a lot of different calculators give the recovery rate as in and around 140 or less. Also I just notice that when I take it very easy my HR hovers around 140 - although the heat has been effecting that.

Finally, running too fast has been a factor in my training - although I did get a handle on it last year. At the moment I'm not following a plan though - I definitely need the structure and discipline of a plan. I've myself not paying attention to the watch a lot lately - just giving it a cursory glance at the start and just judging the run off perceived effort - not consciously, my mind just wanders. Sometimes it seems I get it wrong. And then we have runs like last Saturday where the watch beeps, I see I've been running way too fast and just go with it and have a bit of a blow out. And because I'm not following a plan I'm not worried about being fresh for tomorrows session or long run. And some days if the conditions are right and I'm well rested very easy effort is just faster than other days (according to my somewhat arbitrary <140bpm scale).

While I have you I'd like to know your thoughts on a training plan. I've been thinking long and hard about the P+D 40-55 plan and I'm just concerned that I;m biting off more than I can chew this time around. It is going to be hard to fit some of the longer sessions in around work and it might be that this plan would suit me more for a Spring marathon - just because it's cooler. I have been looking at a very generic plan to get me to sub 3:30:

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/images/asics/ASICS_TRAININGPLANS_Sub%203.30.pdf

It's got everything, it's definitely not intimidating, it seems to match up with my summer racing plans, and I can fit it in around my holidays - which are 3 weeks longs btw.

Now - all the race predictors out there are telling me to got for something in and around 3:15 or so - and that's based off a 25k race time (1:50:xx). However my marathon PB is 3:38:39. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to knock that much time off. 3:30 was my goal last year and it will be my goal this year and I think I can achieve it if I train properly.

Each to their own. I prefer to carry an emergency tener than a backpack when I go exploring on hols or on point to point

If you are going to use HR as a tool for training you should probably do a max heart rate test. P&D suggests a simple one around 600m intervals that you could try. Defining easy by HR and sticking too it will aid recovery even if you think the effort is too low as HR never lies, well almost never

In marathon terms moving from 3:38 to sub 3:30 should be very much achievable for you if the calculator are giving you as low as 3:15. The key factor will be improving your endurance. This will be done by training consistently and in the right zones. I am a big P&D fan and would highly recommend their plans. I have found them tough but rewarding. However, if you are not comfortable moving to them until after another cycle, the "my asics" plan could provide a good stepping stone for you to keep building. It has plenty of easy miles and 4 x 20m+ longs run and plenty of other 16m+ long runs. IMHO whatever plan you do the key will be to build consistency by trying to avoid missing runs and overdoing it when are supposed to be keeping it easy.......the simple rules always apply "easy days easy and hard days hard". The more you apply the former the better chance you have of achieving the latter!!

Enjoy your hols!

hot buttered scones

Wednesday 22nd
I was tired today Tuesdays long run. So a run to the shops (the long way round) - 4.8 miles@9:48, and straight back home - 1.4miles@9:53. Stretch and foam roll

Thursday 23rd
Headed out to Ballincollig regional park for a bit an explore ine the early evenig. A good mix of shiny new wide tarmac, oldr earth/gravel paths and off the beaten track uneven trails complete with dead ends and tree roots. Plenty of shade here. I loved running on the narrow trails more than any other part. I'll have to find more places like this to run. 6.7miles @ 8:50. Very enjoyable run.

Friday 24th - 10k race

I'd been looking for one last race to have a good blow out before the holidays and getting stuck into marathon training. I settled on the Courtmacsherry 10k mostly because its very flat and chip timed. A lovely route along the estuary from Courtmac into and around Timoleague and back to Courtmac along the same road. It was a nice evening -slightly overcast, but cool with none of the humidity of recent weeks down by the coast, although there was a stiff breeze. I was working that day so I headed off early as it was about an hours drive. I did a slow 15 minute warmup with a few drills thrown in to loosen out after the spin.
Mile 1: 6:35. Went out flying as usual, but unlike last week it slowed down after about a minute into a comfortable pace. The lead group took off and by the end of the mile I had settled down and was feeling good.
Miles 2 and 3: 6:52, 6:54
There seemed to be a group of us running at the same pace so I just settled in with them as we headed down the coast road towards Timoleague. I struggled with the headwind and was loosing time, finding it hard to even hit 7:00 pace by 2.5 miles. I figured my goal time )42 mins) was probably gone, so I was just going to enjoy the race. I tucked in behind a guy for a bit, but I''m not sure it helped, becasue when I went in front of him to share the work it felt pretty much the same The road turned just before we hit Timoleague and once out of the wind I was able to pick up the pace again. There was one very small hill here as we went through the town but I didn't push it too hard - I''d been caught out in races before where'I'd pushed too hard on hills and took ages to recover after. 2 tough miles, but I passed a few people and didnt burn myself out
Miles 4 and 5: 6:37, 6:46
Great stuff - a lap of the town, and what goes up must come down. So down the hill on the other side of the town and back over the bridge with a tailwind. I'd made up some time and was feeling good again. Í passed another few, but was also passsed out too. About halfway through the 5th mile I got to the "Oh God is it over yet" stage (coupled with "why didn't I enter the 5 miler last night instead"). A quick check of the watch and I saw my goal time was still possible, so I pushed on.
Mile 6 to 6.22: 6:42, 6:20
A very tough mile and a quarter, I felt like I was barely holding on. My pace definitely dipped again towards the end of the 6th mile, but I got my head together for one last push. My calves felt rock hard, and I was running out of air. There were 3 of us running together. I passed one guy, who then passed me not long before the finish. Then the girl who was on my shoulder also flew past me just before the end and I couldn't follow - she'd been on my shoulder for the first couple of miles and I thought I'd shaken her off in the town. The usual dose of pain and suffering, but I was still able to really pick up the pace over the last 200-300m - basically when I saw the clock counting up to 42!! Cue a bad dose of empty reaching once I crossed the finish line (morto).

Chip time 42:01, Watch time 42:02, Gun time 42:05. I'm taking the chip time for a new 15 second 10k PB. I'm very happy with this because I haven't really done anything int the way of speedwork for a couple of weeks, I had no taper or rest before the race and I haven't been feeling the freshest lately. I think I raced well, and avoided some of the mistakes I'd made in races lately. The spread afterwards was nice too!! A lovely spot for a race.

Saturday 25th Rest+work. No running

Sunday 26th
11 miles @ 9:08 - just doing laps of the pitch and park, with a small bit on the road. A tired, sweaty run on another humid day the only purpose of which was to get me to 1000 miles for the year more than 3 months ahead of last year. Total weekly miles - 46.4. Year to date - 1001


Next up marathon training. And because I'm an indecisive so and so, I still haven't settled on a plan. So I'm going to start the P+D 40-55 plan while I make up mind between that and the Asics Runners world sub 3:30 plan (which doesn't start for 2 more weeks). And if both of them fall through on holidays then its the P+D 12 week plan when I get back. Or the 12 week McMillan plan on Strava. Or Myles' Intermediate Marathon plan from the 2015 graduates thread. I'm glad I've cleared that up. I'm also definitely going for sub 3:30. Unless I don't in which case I'm going for 3:25. Unless my Charleville Half time in September indicates I can do better than 3:25, in which case I'll go for a time faster than that. Unless I get a severe case of Maranoia, in which case I'll go for a sub 3:30. Now that's settled, I wonder what shoes I'll wear for DCM 2016?

denis b

Well done HBS. Nice pace management given the conditions and a PB as a reward. Well worth the drive. Will be interested in your marathon log and training.

Mrs Mc

Decisions decisions so many choices to make ! Congrats on the pb

hot buttered scones

Monday 27th

So - P+D 45-50 it is then. I'm started a day early just in case things go a bit awry with the travel plans later this week. Todays run was 8 miles with 4@15k to HMP, so I guessed that's 4 miles with 2 either side. Splits: 8:34, 8:47, 6:54, 6:55, 7:01, 7:10, 9:27, 9:21. I had worked out the HR rates for this as an experiment so LT was supposed to be 153-169 bpm. Around 2.5 miles in the HR had risen to about 175-177 but I put this down to me being in direct sunlight. I couldn't get it down quickly during the cool down mile either, but it did drop once I got into the shade. I have a FR235 so the HR can play up sometimes so I think I'll just stick to paces from now on.

Anyway I enjoyed this workout and felt great afterwards. I kind of wasn't looking forward to it but it wasn't as tough as I thought it would be. I'm going to try and stick to the plan when I'm away. The first few weeks are not that tough anyway - only 4 days running in the first 2 weeks, but I'll have to see how it goes. Some of the short recovery sessions might have to be replaced with cycling (with the family), but its mostly General Aerobic work so nice n easy.

As for when I get home - I have so many questions. It looks like racing is out, but I want to do a half marathon in September so how do I move things around to suit that? Also the other tune up races towards the end of the plan - are these all out efforts or controlled? And what do you if you can't race on the day specified in the plan - do your just do a tempo or something?

hot buttered scones

Wednesday 29th
9 miles General Aerobic - 8:36, 8:53, 8:54, 9:10, 8:45, 8:24, 8:50, 9:00, 9:06.

A pre flight run - last run in Ireland for 3 weeks. It was a bit more consistent than it looks - the course was quite undulating. Still a tad too fast though (should be 9:00 or slower) but looking at the HR data afterwards I was pretty much in the right range except for during some of the climbs. Rest day tomorrow

FBOT01

Best of luck with the plan. The plan will get tougher as you move through it so take the chance when they come to run easy runs easy. If your GA should be 9mins or slower then do it. You used HR to justify running too fast but on Monday when your HR was too high for the pace you wanted to run you dismissed it. Can't have your cake and eat....well you can while on holiday but after that stop kidding yourself and trying to justify running in the wrong range as no better distance than the marathon to catch you out!!

hot buttered scones

Seriously - have written 2 long posts on the app and can't get then to post so I'm trying from the the phone browser and keeping it short. Too hot yesterday - tried for 13 miles with 8@MP. Felt the heat after the first 5 and then had to stop during the first mile @MP and just didn't feel ok to continue even at easy pace. I'm inclined to just forget this session and move on with the plan. Is this the right decision? Also I'm slowing it down and it's enjoyable tbh.

Singer

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Seriously - have written 2 long posts on the app and can't get then to post so I'm trying from the the phone browser and keeping it short. Too hot yesterday - tried for 13 miles with 8@MP. Felt the heat after the first 5 and then had to stop during the first mile @MP and just didn't feel ok to continue even at easy pace. I'm inclined to just forget this session and move on with the plan. Is this the right decision? Also I'm slowing it down and it's enjoyable tbh.

I think you should move on. Also don't be afraid of slowing things down in general in the heat, it's tougher on the body and you won't be able to hit targets as easy over there. You don't want to be coming home from the holiday completely destroyed, and most importantly having running in heat ruining your holiday