Still trying to figure it all out.

hot buttered scones · 25-04-2016 12:06am #1

Thread title says it all really. I seem to spend half my life looking up different training plans and reading about different approaches to training and workouts. I'm slowly started to understand some of it, but I'm not sure I'd be able to put together a decent plan for myself. So I thought I'd start a log and see what comes of it. I'm also a bit longwinded, so where better to collect my ramblings than my very own thread!

Background
I'll be 42 years old this year. Started running in 2014 after packing in the fags. Had spent a few months in the gym before that. I'm over 3 stone lighter now than when I started. I ran my first race in May 2014 (6 miles) and was immediately hooked. I overdid it in 2014 and was injured by August. Took 2 months off and was back at it by November, but injury struck again in January 2015. So I've been running without a break since about March 2015. First up was the Cork City Marathon (using a My Asics plan) in 3:49:27. Then DCM 2015 (using a McMillan plan from Strava) in 3:38:39. I jumped on-board with the DCM2015 graduates plan which worked very well for me.
RHR goes from 39 to 42, max HR - about 188. RHR is measured using my Garmin FR235. Max HR - it's the max I've achieved at the end of a race, discounting obvious spikes. Not very scientific, but it'll do for now

My aim this year (so far - if indecisiveness was a disease, I'd definetly have it) is to focus on improving my times up to half marathon, with Charleville in September as my main goal race. Then tackle a spring Marathon in 2017 - probably Cork but after today I'd love to have a go at London.

PB's
5K - 20:06 BHAA Centra 5k, August 2015
6K - 24:55, BHAA FMC 6K, January 2016
4 mile - 26:16 Ballintotis, April 2016
5 mile - 34:29 Ballycotton 5, August 2016 (although my 5 mile split time for a recent 10k was 33:46)
10K - 42:16, BHAA UCC 10K, March 2016 (My one and only 10k to date)
Half Marathon: 1:34:39, Charlevile September 2015
10 mile - 1:08:53, Ballycotton 10, March 2016
25K: 1:50:32, Great Railway Run, April 2016 (Half marathon split was 1:32:37 - but I don't count these splits as PBs -should I?)
Marathon: 3:38:39, DCM, Oct 2015

Goals 2016
5k - very soft sub 20:00
5 miles - sub 33
Half: Sub 1:30 in September - Don't if this is realistic
Marathon: Sub 3:25 or 3:30 in 2017

This weeks training
Monday: 3m recovery @10:26 pace - ran 25k race the day before
Tuesday: 6.6m @8:24 pace
Wednesday: 7.5m@8:29 pace - grassy trail on a rolling 3.5k loop
Thursday: Day shift. 5.7m total, including Ballintotis 4 mile - probably too son to race after Sunday, but its one of the biggest races of the year and they have nice cakes!!
Friday: Day shift. Rest, no running
Saturday: Night Shift. Long Run in the am. 14.6 miles in 2 hours. Average pace 8:13. Average HR 146. Started easy (130bpm -140bpm), then gradually increased the effort (145-152bpm). Hit some hills in the last 3 and pushed the effort here to about 165bpm when climbing
Sunday: Night Shift. Pre work run 7.6m @8:03 pace, average HR 145, hilly course. Was supposed to be 1 hour easy, but it was one of those enjoyable runs were you just run along comfortably and are surprised at your pace afterwards.

Since December last year my pace, fitness, strength and speed of recovery have all improved. I still have some structural deficits, biomechanically speaking, especially the glutes/hips and the calves and I haven't been doing anything to address that, so I'm going to have to go back to doing my strength excercises, so hopefully keeping this log will help with that. I also don't sleep enough, so I may start logging my sleep hours as well.

My next big race is the Cork City Half on June 6. I hope to go under 1:32. In between I have a 4 mile on Wednesday, then a 6 mile race on May 11th. I'll also turn up to the Ballyandreen 5 on May 26th - 1st of a series of 4 summer races. It's quite close to the Cork Half, so I may just do it at half mara pace. As for a training plan - I have none at the moment really. I'm just going to try a few sessions from another thread, with some general aerobic runs and some long runs, along with the races in place of tempos until Cork. When training for Charleville starts I'm thinking about one of the plans from Pfitzinger and Douglas' Advanced road running book.

So, as I said, a bit longwinded. I'm hoping to get some insights, advice and opinions and develop a better understanding of how this all works. And I know I said I wasn't running a marathon this year, but there's a nagging voice in my head telling me I have unfinished business in Dublin - so maybe my goals will shift.

Mrs Mc · 25-04-2016 7:12am

Best of luck with the log HBS another DCM graduate log to follow progress.

Firedance · 25-04-2016 7:26am

Welcome to the logs HBS. you have time to start a structured HM plan stil, if you ask maybe on the random running questions thread and give your current pb & your goal, more experienced folk will offer good advice. I think progressing through a plan is a big help in reaching goals.

hot buttered scones · 25-04-2016 4:49pm

Firedance wrote: »

Welcome to the logs HBS. you have time to start a structured HM plan stil, if you ask maybe on the random running questions thread and give your current pb & your goal, more experienced folk will offer good advice. I think progressing through a plan is a big help in reaching goals.

Cheers for that. Myles Splitz just posted a few trying plans on the graduates thread so I think I'll follow that for now.

hot buttered scones · 29-04-2016 3:46pm

Aargh!! Had a big long post typed out, pressed the wrong bloody button on this stupid Mac keyboard and everything disappeared. FFS

Anyway, very mixed bag this week so far.

Monday (pm): 12x400 @ CV pace (6:35/mile) Total miles = 7.5/ Interval paces: 6:25; 6:31; 6:28; 6:34; 6:33; 6:38; 6:29; 6:33; 6:36; 6:36; 6:34; 6:31. Done on the road using a Garmin programmed workout with pace alerts. I wasn't too concerned about the 400m being a bit out
Tuesday (late am): 6.4 miles @9:12/mile, hilly (for me - 490ft elevation gain). Was tired after Monday night and night shifts, so the last 20 minutes felt tougher than they should. Probably hadn't eaten enough over the last 2 days.
Had physio Tuesday PM - sore RHS hip flexor after the 25k race and stiffness in the lower back, gluten on the same side. So tissue work and some dry needling.
Wednesday: Legs and back felt good after physio session. Woke with a stiff neck and left shoulder - an old pre running injury. Applied heat and did a few stretches and it felt better. Went to the BHAA Stryker 4 mile. Time 26:07 - new PB (9 seconds) and 3 mins better than last year. Felt conformable throughout until the last half mile. Dry heaved on finishing without a sprint finish. Splits - 6:35, 6:35, 6:39, 6:19. Last mile net downhill. Not a flat course. Very happy with my performance - didn't suffer until the end, but don't think I could have given any more and feel I paced it very well. We won a team prize (€20 voucher) - that's the 4th time this year at BHAA races and a new experience for me. Great night overall, with team mates getting some high placings and 1st ladies, and a mens and ladies team prize.
Total miles for the day - 6.5.
Thursday: Fu xa ke. Couldn't move my kneck or shoulder when I woke up. Very very sore and tight. I went back to the physio who did some more soft tissue work and more needling. Managed to to improve the range of motion there and then. Spent the evening with heat packs and stretching
Friday. Neck still fubarred, but better than yesterday. Cried off work. More stretching, heat and a few painkillers. No running yesterday, today or tomorrow. Longest break since DCM 2015. Totally p'ed off. It's that type annoying pain and stiffness where you can't really think of anything else. Hopefully it'll be ok by Sunday. Legs feel great though - which is no good as I'm sat on my backside watching the snooker.

So - in the horrors, but trying to be sensible about not rushing back. I just hope a few days won't undo much of the progress I've made over the last few months.

El Caballo · 29-04-2016 3:51pm

Few days won't cause you to lose anything. Think the usual concensus is that it takes about 10 days to start losing fitness. Usually after a few days off, it's only a bit of staleness that needs to be shook off with a run or two.

hot buttered scones · 29-04-2016 3:58pm

El Caballo wrote: »

Few days won't cause you to lose anything. Think the usual concensus is that it takes about 10 days to start losing fitness. Usually after a few days off, it's only a bit of staleness that needs to be shook off with a run or two.

Cheers. I can get a bit glum when I'm not running and past experience with this neck thing is that stressing about things is not helpful. To be honest, looking back over my last 5 or 6 weeks training I'm probably well overdue an easy week anyway.

Mrs Mc · 29-04-2016 4:15pm

Rest that neck up sounds painful. At least if you're looking out at the predicted awful weather we are due you might be glad of the rest. Hope it gets better. Congrats on pb.

hot buttered scones · 29-04-2016 4:34pm

Cheers Mrs. Mac. Have to house to myself, so I'm breaking all the rules. No running, a takeaway on its way, heating on and sitting in my trackie bottoms watching the snooker. So far here today it's been, sunny, windy, raining and hailing so maybe it's not too much of a loss. I've a few episodes of house of cards to catch up on. These unplanned days with nothing to do are few and far between these days, so I'm going to enjoy it

Dubgal72 · 29-04-2016 6:51pm

Good to see this HBS, welcome to logs! Are you with a running club or was that a work team?

hot buttered scones · 29-04-2016 7:26pm

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Good to see this HBS, welcome to logs! Are you with a running club or was that a work team?

Cheers Dubgal. It was a work team (Cork BHAA). We've acquired some fast club runners onto our team this year so that helps! I haven't taken the plunge and joined a club yet, but I'm weighing up my options at the moment.

Edit: I've won a tin of biscuits, a gear bag and a tech t-shirt in Category C and the voucher was in Cat B. The most important thing is that I really enjoyed the biscuits.

Firedance · 29-04-2016 8:54pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Cheers Mrs. Mac. Have to house to myself, so I'm breaking all the rules. No running, a takeaway on its way, heating on and sitting in my trackie bottoms watching the snooker. So far here today it's been, sunny, windy, raining and hailing so maybe it's not too much of a loss. I've a few episodes of house of cards to catch up on. These unplanned days with nothing to do are few and far between these days, so I'm going to enjoy it

I'm out

hope your back at it soon but take all the time you need to recover well

hot buttered scones · 03-05-2016 7:46pm

The advice from the physio was not to run until Saturday evening if I felt ok. So that's what I did. I was still a little stiff, but went out after work.

Saturday: 4.4 miles@8:55. Felt ok after this. I gave the neck and shoulder a hood stretch and it didn't really bother when I was running. But I did feel a twinge a the back of my left knee. I think my calf was tight and pulling on it. Gave it a good stretch and hit the from roller when I went home.

Sunday: Night Shift. Headed into work early. Neck/Shoulder well on the way to recovery but I was a bit worried about my knee. Decided to go ahead with 4x10 minutes (2 recovery) @ HM pace and just see how it went. No pain at all from the neck/shoulder once I warmed up and the knee held out. The last interval of this session I found tough, but it was very warm and I was full of food, so no surprise there
Warmup: 15 mins, 1 mile @8:10 (50% downhill), 0.81 mile @ 8:26. This look a bit fast but average HR for the first mile was 126(142 max) and 140 for the second bit (145 max). My Garmin recorded miles split during the intervals so I have no average pace for each interval
1: 1 mile@6:53, 160bpm, 168bpm max; 0.45 miles@6:53, 168bpm, 178bpm max,
2: 1 mile@6:55, 167bpm, 178bpm max, 0.44 miles@7:02, 175bpm, 181bpm max
3: 1mile@7:01, 165bpm, 175bpm max, 0.43 miles@6:57, 171bpm, 179bpm max
4: 1mile@7:03, 165bpm, 172bpm max, 0.42 miles@7:00, 167bpm, 170bpm max
Cool down: 1 mile@9:20
Total mileage: 9:35
So - 1:30 is definitely over ambitious for the Cork half. If I can do it between 7:00 and 7:05 pace I'll be well pleased

Monday: Night Shift. Felt very tired after last nights session followed by a 12 hour night. 7.3 miles@ 8:51, 139bpm average, 155 bpm max (hit this climbing a short hill at the end. This pace felt very easy and HR was below 140 for a good portion of the run, creeping up to about 143 or so towards the end. Neck and shoulder fine now - just a bit stiff after waking up or after I've been sitting for a bit. The knee though is still a bit niggly. Some calf stretches gave relief so I think its that

Tuesday: Rest day. I woke early after night shift. I was knackered, the house was busy, and my body just said no. I had planned to do 45-60 minutes easy today, but decided to rest instead. I'll do some time on the floor with a foam roller and a few stretches later.

So no long run last week, and but I have plenty done so far so if I have to take it easy for another few days then so be it. I've planned a good nights sleep tonight and how I feel in the morning will dictate whether or not I do an easy run or my scheduled session.

hot buttered scones · 15-05-2016 1:45pm

I've had what feels like a patchy couple of weeks. I've been feeling a bit fatigued and and a bit achy - just a bit stale. Looking back it seems like I peaked for the 25k, and didn't recover properly afterwards. So left calf and hamstring are still a bit tight and pulling at the back of my knee, but I've been a but more diligent with the post run stretching and foam rolling so that's easing out. I've revised my goal for the Cork Half to just see how I get on on the day. The heat over the last few days has been difficult to run in so if its a warm day I'd say any chance of a PB are out the window - but I don't really care. I entered the half as a test (the 25k race more than fulfilled that), and just to be involved in the biggest running event in my home City.

I've have a lot to log so this will be long. I last logged on 3rd May so this takes it from there:
Weds 4th: 3k-2k-1k Threshold to CV paces (~6:50-6:34), 400m recovery. Came through this session well, the lat 1km was a bit hard but I felt good after it.
Thurs 5th: Long Run, 2 hours. 13.7miles, 8:45 av. pace. Felt good enough, but tired over the last 30 minutes but was able to maintain pace.
Fri 6th: 6.4miles easy/recovery on mostly grass/trails 9:18/m average.
Sat 7th. Rest day+Work
Sun 8th: 15min warm up, 30min tempo (4.2 miles 7:11;7:08;7:08,7:00 for the last 1.2), 15min cool down. Found the first 5 minutes of tempo touch but once I got going I really enjoyed it. HR in around 160-165, creeping towards 170 for the last 5 minutes

This week. My schedule had 2 session - 16x400 @ Threshold pace and 4x12mins @ HMP. I got neither done. I had a 6 mile race and dropped the first session and I blew up during the 2nd session

Monday: Had planned an hour easy but couldn't get out before work in the evening, so a rest day it was
Tuesday: 6.7 miles total (1 hour) 5.5 mile @~8:55 then 6xstrides - just ran the length of a soccer pitch and jogged back, with the last two all out, then jog back home. Foam rolled and stretched
Wed: 9.1 total. 1.8 warmup. 1 mile cool down. 6 mile race. I found this a tough race over hills and warm muggy conditions. Splits - 6:23(downhill), 6:46, 6:57; 7:16 (hilliest part), 6:52, 6:51). I can;t complain becasue I had a hand in the course design, but every mile bar the first had a hill - Strava has a 308 feet elevation gain over the course and the downhill did not make up for it. Official finish time was 41:16 which I'm happy with considering the conditions and I was just finished 2 night shifts. I got home late so just a quick go with the stick on the calves before bed
Thursday: 6.6 miles on the flat, 9:03 average pace. I was tired from the night before but once I got going I just cruised along for an hour nice and easy. I tried to keep the cadence up as I found this works well for me when my legs are tired. HR was a bit higher than normal, but I was fatigued from the race and it was a bit warm up. A real endorphin booster of a run. I finished with a smile on my face. Went home and had a full stretch and foam roll.
Friday: The plan was to get up early and get in half an hour recovery, but that never happened. I had a family occasion to attend so I just relaxed and enjoyed the day.
Saturday: A hangover???? After like two and half beers??? FFS. Dying til around 2. I headed out around 5, just as the sun was at it hottest. Great stuff. After a 2 mile warm up I started into 4x12 mins @ HMP. I was doing laps of a pitch again tbh the first rep felt great, but the pace was way too fast - 6:45, when it should have been 6:55 - 7:15. 2:30 recovery and then down onto the trails and paths for the second rep. Its just harder to run on the trails so I had aimed to do 7:15 for this interval - but the oace was all over the shop - 7:00 for the 1st mile, 7:13 for the remainder and I struggled to finish. Back up onto the pitch for the 3rd interval, but I was just out of gas. The heat had gotten to me and my water stash had gone missing. Stopped 3 minutes in, the restarted for another minute before calling it a day. Still managed to do a 1.8 mile cool down jog (9:03) but I was bate. 8.3 total for the day and a distinct feeling that maybe I'd peaked a few weeks ago
Sun: Nothing yet. I plan a long run this evening though - but I might just do 10 miles instead of the scheduled 13-14 depending on how I feel later

I've been looking at a few marathon plans (P+D 40-55 in particular). I sort of doing that sort of mileage already and I'm thinking that if after the Cork half I just do a few weeks base training/recovery mode I'll be in good shape for marathon training. Actually its the P+D 12 week plan that appeals to me the most. I definitely need to freshen thing up a bit so I'm thinking about doing Dublin and skipping some of the shorter races I had planned. So it'll be the Charleville half as a tune up, the Ballycotton 5 mile summer series and maybe one Cork BHAA 5k. If that sounds like a lot I would have planned on doing maybe 3 or 4 more races over shorter distances as well. I don't know - I haven't made up my mind. I bombed trying to hit 3:30 in Dublin last year and ended up with 3:38:xx - but a number of things didn't go right on the day. I was definitely good for a 3:35 at least. My times would indicate a marathon time of around 3:15, so I would add 10 minutes to that at least. Is 3:25 too ambitious??

hot buttered scones · 16-05-2016 5:40pm

Headed out about 7.30pm last night after work for around 2 hours easy. I went down to Blackrock Castle and did the 5 mile loop down to Mahon Point and bacl up the Rialway line to the Marina. I felt really good after an hour so I decided to pick up the pace a bit. I decided I wanted do 45 mins at around 155bpm and then finish string for the last 15 mins at around 160-165bpm. I love the fast finish long runs and get great confidence from them. Anyway it wasn't the greatest idea. I managed around 25 minutes at the faster pace and started to feel a bit ill, so I jogged back to the car and did another slow mile or so to see if the feeling would subside. It was a silly thing to do really because I'd eaten a lunch around 5pm and it just didn't settle. I felt ok until I picked up the pace though.

Splits: 8:32, 133bpm; 8:25,142bpm; 8:42,141bpm; 8:45,141bpm; 8:47,143bpm; 8:47,142bpm; 8:22,146bpm; 7:40, 155bpm; 7:38,154bpm; 7:42,155bpm; 8:19,147bpm; 8:54,135bpm; 9:29,131bpm; 0.13miles@9:53,128bpm

Total: 13.1miles, 1:51:18

I nailed a similar workout a few months ago, but I'm not that worried because of the stomach upset thing. I was feeling strong and the pace felt easy until then.
No running today and a full days work. I'll probably do an interval session tomorrow because I won't have time on Wednesday after nightshift - as always I'll see how I feel in the morning.

Mrs Mc · 16-05-2016 8:34pm

Mind yourself M sounds like you might need to listen to the bod and watch that fatigue if it continues you may need a bit of a tonic. Take it handy. Don't know anything about the P & D Plan but M has followed it so I'll mention it to him and he can post up any tips on it.

hot buttered scones · 20-05-2016 2:46pm

Feeling a lot better. I've slept quite well this week and feel a bit more energised and a some of the aches and pains and tightness have just melted away overnight. Sleep is really, really important. And it's not something that I do very well on a consistent basis. In fact, I think I'd improve a lot by just sleeping better, and not making any changes to my training.

Monday: Rest.
Tuesday: 7.3 miles average 8:50/mile, pace fairly even throughout, evening run before nights. Felt good.
Wednesday: 2 mile warmup, 6x1200m@CV pace with 400m recovery, 2 mile cool down. 10 miles total. CV pace is 6:34-6:42, but because of the fatigue of late and the fact that this was in between night shifts I set the lower limit to 6:50 and would have been happy with that. As it happens there was no need to worry. Interval paces: 6:35/mile, 6:37/mile, 6:39/mile, 6:37/mile, 6:47/mile, 6:42/mile. I'm very happy with this. The first interval (as always) was too fast. The 5th and 6th were tough, but some of that loss of pace was due to a strong headwind. Although some of the faster splits were down to a tailwind. Again, this wasn't done on a track, just with a Garmin, but I'm not too worried about the lack of accuracy over 1200m. So although tired after this session, I felt refreshed and full of confidence.
Thursday: 6.5 miles split into 2 runs. 2 mile@8:40 mostly downhill, then did a few messages (as they say here), then 4.5 miles@9:03 - had to climb back up the hill I ran down previously. Gorgeous day, nice and sunny with a cool breeze. Perfect day for it.
Friday: 7 miles easy@8:52. A nice plod in the rain in park at the back of my place. It was sheltered from the wind but I got soaked - but I don;t mind the rain so much when I'm running and my current Nikes seems to be waterproof.

Overall I'm happy with the week so far. I've been looking after sleep, nutrition and taking it easier on easy days this week and its paying off. And it worth repeating that sleep is really, really important.

FBOT01 · 22-05-2016 6:09pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I've had what feels like a patchy couple of weeks. I've been feeling a bit fatigued and and a bit achy - just a bit stale. Looking back it seems like I peaked for the 25k, and didn't recover properly afterwards. So left calf and hamstring are still a bit tight and pulling at the back of my knee, but I've been a but more diligent with the post run stretching and foam rolling so that's easing out. I've revised my goal for the Cork Half to just see how I get on on the day. The heat over the last few days has been difficult to run in so if its a warm day I'd say any chance of a PB are out the window - but I don't really care. I entered the half as a test (the 25k race more than fulfilled that), and just to be involved in the biggest running event in my home City.

........................

I've been looking at a few marathon plans (P+D 40-55 in particular). I sort of doing that sort of mileage already and I'm thinking that if after the Cork half I just do a few weeks base training/recovery mode I'll be in good shape for marathon training. Actually its the P+D 12 week plan that appeals to me the most. I definitely need to freshen thing up a bit so I'm thinking about doing Dublin and skipping some of the shorter races I had planned. So it'll be the Charleville half as a tune up, the Ballycotton 5 mile summer series and maybe one Cork BHAA 5k. If that sounds like a lot I would have planned on doing maybe 3 or 4 more races over shorter distances as well. I don't know - I haven't made up my mind. I bombed trying to hit 3:30 in Dublin last year and ended up with 3:38:xx - but a number of things didn't go right on the day. I was definitely good for a 3:35 at least. My times would indicate a marathon time of around 3:15, so I would add 10 minutes to that at least. Is 3:25 too ambitious??

Hi HBS, welcome to the training logs. Best of luck with it.

While I am by no means a P&D expert I have been through a few P&D cycles at this stage so have some experience with them. I will start by stating the obvious. The clue is in the name of the book "Advanced Marathoning" so if you decide to go down the P&D route you will be taking a big step up in terms of training structure and intensity. If you are not in the right place both physically and mentally when starting you will run a real risk of not making it to the startline.

I had two reasonably consistent year under my belt before trying the 18 week "Up to 55M" plan in 2013. I choose the 18 week version as I wanted to build more endurance in the early phase before getting into the increased intensity. My previous plans had a lot of intensity in them as I never did a traditional quantity based plan like HH. I did the FIRST program from Day 1 which is quality over quantity based. The extra focus on endurance was a key thing for me to allow me to push on. The intensity of P&D never bothered me as I was used to it but runners coming from quantity based plans like HH can struggle with the extra intensity of P&D and injury is not uncommon if you jump into this type of training too early. I am not sure what plan you did for DCM 2015 but you may want to consider another cycle building your overall capacity and letting your body adjust before making the leap.

Whatever route you go before doing anything you should start by focusing on getting all the niggles sorted and making sure that the body is ready to go. You should then build up the base miles to as close to 50mpw as you can running at least 5 days per week with no single run greater than 15m. This will help build your consistency, endurance and general fitness. It will also give you the confident that the mileage targets in the "Up to 55m" plan are no higher than you are used to so mentally all you will have to deal with is the shift in intensity. If you are already running 50mpw then the reduction in mileage in the first few weeks of the plan will allow your body adjust much easier to the intensity than if you are trying to build mileage and intensity at the same time.

So in short

Step 1 | Get the niggles sorted;
Step 2 | Increase base mileage to 50mpw off 5days with LR no greater than 15m;
Step 3 | Set realistic target and define your training pace accordingly;
Step 4 | When you are happy that you have completed Step 1 to 3 and that P&D is the route for you then GO FOR IT;
Step 5 | Stick to the plan!!!!

I will be watching with interest to see how you progress during the year. ENJOY!!!

hot buttered scones · 24-05-2016 3:23pm

Thanks FBOT01 for the very detailed response. It's given me a lot to think about. First off a bit more history - I'm running pretty consistently for since about February 2015 - my only real down time was after Dublin were I had 2 or 3 very easy weeks.
From late Dec 2014 to mid Feb 2014 I was recovering from a post tib strain - so strength work, pool running, isolated stretching kept me going. I took up running in 2014 but it was patchy - I got good 5 months until another injury sidelined me from august to the start of October, but I did no training in this period. I was about 6 weeks into a Jeff Gaudette runkeeper plan for Dublin 2014 and injured myself doing the Rock n Roll half 2014. Before that I'd just been in the gym regularly for about a year doing mostly cardio (including treadmill) and weights machines trying to loose weight.
So in summary -2013 was gym/weight loss backing off towards the end of the year. 2014 started back in the gym in January, took to the roads in March, injured in August, back running in October, injured again in late Dec (too much, too fast, too soon). And 30 races ran since Ballycotton 2015. Dublin 2106 will be my 3rd Marathon.
I used a myasics plan for Cork 2015 - 2 short easy runs, 1 tempo effort and one long run a week (about 35 miles/week max). Did a 12 week McMillan Strava plan for Dublin - 5 days a week, 2 sessions, 1 long run (including 1x20 and 2x22) with midweek MLRs up to 12 miles. I enjoyed this plan, but I raced too often during it and ended up tired. Also McMillans "easy" pace was not so easy I think.
I've been following Myles' 2015 graduate plan since Dublin and once that ended I jumped into week 6 or so of the 10k-half plan that he put up to bring me up to the Cork Half.
So Step 1: I'm working on it. I have quite a good physio, I'm committing to starting up the s&c work I had been doing in the lead up to Dublin and resting properly - which I had not been doing
Step 2: Average weekly mileage for the last 2 months is something like 42 miles per week over 5 or 6 days - I do have a couple of 50 mile weeks in there. I strayed from Myles' plan too - I'm doing a 2 hour long run once a week since Feb - i get in between 13 or 14 miles. Well most weeks - not when I have a race and I was sick one week.
Step 3: I'm lost here. PB is 3:38:xx from Dublin. I was aiming for 3:30, but things went wrong on the day and I fell apart after 20 miles. A more realistic goal would have been 3:35. On current form (1:50:3x for a fairly flat 25k) most calculators indicate 3:15ish, but I think that's a bit much. That's why I'm thinking 3:25 - that's going out with the 3:30 pacers and pushing on if I feel good, or hanging on if I don't
Step 4: Nothing much about the P+D plan puts me off other than the MLRs of 15 miles midweek, mostly because I;m wondering if I'll have time to do them. Also I'm wondering more about the 12 week plans because I'm on holidays with the family for about 3 weeks in July, and while I will be doing good bit of running, I'm not sure if I'll be able to stick with a plan (see Step 5)
Step 5: 12 or 18 weeks? I think 12 is more achievable for me. Also I aim to be a lot more focussed this time and not jump into every local race like I did last year. Although I may try for a cheeky 5k PB in August.

Have to dash off there now, but thanks again for the inout FBOT01

Edit: I'm considering training by HR for this training cycle for a number of reasons. Firstly it will stop me going too hard in training, and also I think it could be helpful for doing tempos and the like over hilly routes.

hot buttered scones · 24-05-2016 5:39pm

Training:

Saturday: I had a 35 minute tempo on the plan - @7:12-7:23). I felt a bit tired so I decided to try and run towards the slower end, and push that slower end out to 7:30. It didn't go well. After a 2 mile warmup, I started the tempo session but had to stop after 1.5 miles, then twice more after every mile even when I slowed down and tried to keep the HR consistent. Excuses - it was windy, it got very hot during the run and I was focussing on my watch too much - the tree cover down the Marina plays havoc with the GPS in my experience. Another poor Saturday session. I should have cut my losses and just jogged another 20 minutes after stopping. Total miles 7.6. More like an interval session

Sunday: Long run. I felt good Sunday morning. I planned a 10 mile route that would take in the last 8 or so miles of the Half (and full btw) marathon looping back to the car and then if I felt ok I'd run the first 3 miles. I felt great during this run, just trying to keep the HR below 145, allowing it to increase to 150 over any inclines. It was cooler than Saturday. Average pace was 8:28 which surprised me, average HR 144bpm.
I couldn't resist picking up the pace a bit running down Patrick Street. Total miles: 14.1 Felt greta afterwards too. A total turnaround from the day before:

Monday: Rest

Tuesday: Felt a but ropey yesterday. Felt a whole lot worse this morning. SICK. B alls. Sore throat, headache, doctors bill, day off sick. I feel ok now - but I'm not going to push it. So today is an unscheduled rest day.

This puts my plans for the week askew. I had planned to run the Ballyandreen 5 as a HMP run on Thursday night, but I don't think I'll bother now, which means I more than likely won't do the Ballycotton summer series. Which is ok too - it means I'll focus better on my marathon training. So no session for this week, but I'll do some easy miles tomorrow and see how I get on.

hot buttered scones · 25-05-2016 6:02pm

Wednesday: Felt better this morning. Did an easy 10k with a few pulls and drags. Average pace 8:52, ave HR 146 bpm. Breathing was still a bit heavy but cleared up about half way through. Had a good rest last night and feel the better for it. I had to get out today and would have been happy with 5k but I just kept going and in the end I felt tired but refreshed, which is good sign I suppose.

I also had a trip to the physio. Nothing to worry about - just a bit of tightness in the left calf and hamstring that's pulling on the inside of the knee. Got a bit of soft tissue work and a bit of dry needling done. I'll have to start doing my calf raises again as I appear to have lost a bit of strength there along with the glute bridges and clams - trying to build up to 25 from 2 sets of 10.

I think I've lost too much weight which has left me feeling a bit weaker than normal. I'm down to 72.3kg from 74.3kg about 2 months ago. I'm 6ft tall. I felt better at 74kg to be honest. I've not been eating enough, but sometimes I'm just not hungry. I need some easy to prepare calorie dense foods. Also everything dairy in my fridge tends to be low cal/lo fat so I wonder should I get my own yoghurts/milk etc. I'm snacking on crap rather than on healthy foods which doesn't help. Ill have to nail this down quickly before marathon training starts or I'll be setting myself up to fail.

Singer · 25-05-2016 7:56pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I think I've lost too much weight which has left me feeling a bit weaker than normal. I'm down to 72.3kg from 74.3kg about 2 months ago. I'm 6ft tall. I felt better at 74kg to be honest. I've not been eating enough, but sometimes I'm just not hungry. I need some easy to prepare calorie dense foods. Also everything dairy in my fridge tends to be low cal/lo fat so I wonder should I get my own yoghurts/milk etc. I'm snacking on crap rather than on healthy foods which doesn't help. Ill have to nail this down quickly before marathon training starts or I'll be setting myself up to fail.

I found my appetite increased a lot once I increased my milage for marathon training last year. It hasn't really let up since (though neither has my running). Having non-crappy snacks (fruit, nuts, cheese, bagels... well maybe the bagels aren't great) to hand has kept things spiralling out of control.

Mrs Mc · 26-05-2016 7:13am

Go over onto FBOT's log a log of talk about diet and food over the last few days some interested links and suggestions posted there.

hot buttered scones · 31-05-2016 10:27am

Thursday: 7 miles before work (nights). mostly on grass. 8:35/mile, 144bpm average
Friday: Recovery 5k, 9:25/mile, 131 bpm average.
Saturday: 2x20min@HMP, 5 recovery, 2 mile warmup and cool down. 10 miles total. This was tough. I really faded in the latest 5 minutes of both intervals. HR should have been 165-170 max for the intervals, but ended up peaking at around 180, avergaing around 175. It was very warm and humid though, so I'm putting it down to that.
Sunday: 10.8 miles @ 8:47 in the heat again. I thought this run was going to be around 8 or 9 miles but figured it wrong so ended up doing nearly 11. Very warm again (around 4pm) and the HR reflected this (148 average). It got a bit dull and and a cool breeze picked up for the last 3 or 4 miles and I really felt a difference in effort (it was easier).
Monday: Rest. Actual rest. No work and no running.
Tuesday: 5 miles @ 9:01/mile, average HR 134bpm, some very short pick ups at the end. For once I got my backside out of bed and went for a run before work. Legs were like bricks and I couldn't get the HR up at all. I'd say I was still half alseep to be honest. Still, it was a gorgeous sunny morning and it felt good to be out. I haven't run this early in a while, and I need to get back into the habit if I'm to follow a plan for Dublin properly.

I still don't know how to approach the half on Monday. At this stage I'm going to go with a go out hard and fade as late as possible. The course is more or less flat for the first and last 4 miles, with a few drags in the middle. If its 18 degrees or above then I'll be doing a long run with a fast finish, but it will feel like I'm racing.

hot buttered scones · 04-06-2016 6:00pm

Wednesday: Unscheduled rest day. Got up late and felt tired after work so I just didn't bother.

Thursday: Felt good after the extra rest day. 6x1min V02 max. Did a 2 mile warm up on trails, the some drills on grass, then the repeats around a soccer pitch. Aimed for 5:55-6:00 pace for the intervals. Interval paces: 5:45, 5:34, 5:45, 5:40, 5:40, 5:28 - around 300m for each one I think. It didn't feel that fast though. I tired in the last 100m but could have done another 100m for each interval and could have done another 2 intervals. I always find it hard to judge the pace of these short hard repeats. 1 and a bit miles cool down, total miles 5.4

Friday: Had a sports massage in the afternoon. Felt good after that. Evening: 5.6 miles, easy, 8:05 pace, 146 bpm average. Threw in a couple of random short pick ups. I really enjoyed this run. It was about 7pm down around Cork Harbour, 18 degrees, a light cool breeze, plenty of shade to run in. It felt easy and the easy/taper week is doing its job even though the pace is a bit faster than normal. I felt fresh and energised for the first time in a while. Woo Hoo!

Saturday: Dunno yet. Got up late after night shift and headed into the Cork City Marathon expo to pick up my number for the half. Expo was poor - just the Edge, John Buckleys and some guy selling surplus race t shirts and a cafe I think. My pop out for 20 minutes recovery later as a warm up for a full stretch but its fierce warm out.

Edit: Headed out for 3 very easy miles. Just jogged to the shops and back. Had a full stretch and foam roll session. Magic.

jake1970 · 05-06-2016 8:54pm

Best of luck tomorrow HBS.

hot buttered scones · 06-06-2016 4:26am

Sunday: 3 miles very easy with 4 strides, then off into town to watch a bit of the redbull soapbox race. Met a few heads and got a bit excited about the race. There was a great buzz about the place. I really thought I was taking this easy but it appears I'm actually quite nervous - so despite telling myself this wasn't actually a goal race I still couldn't sleep much. Got to sleep about 1.30 and was wide awake again about 4.45. I got no sleep last year before the full and I was grand so I'm not worried. I determined to have a good crack off this and at the very least if I can look awesome while powering down Patrick Street then I'll have had a good day (well that's how it looked in my head anyway - definitely not a crumpled sweaty mess with angry running face). I've eaten well and I'm well hydrated and it's not even my longest race of the year so far. Actually I'm probably a tad over hydrated, hence waking at 4.45.

FBOT01 · 06-06-2016 7:56am

Have a good one today, HBS and most importantly ENJOY!!!

hot buttered scones · 06-06-2016 7:59am

FBOT01 wrote: »

Have a good one today, HBS and most importantly ENJOY!!!

Cheers. Just about to head out the door to try and catch the full marathon as it runs back through town. It's funny - this was never a supposed to be a major goal race for me - more of a rangefinder to see where I was at, but I'm rattling now. There's something special about a big race in your home town I suppose. I'll be eating a 99 on Panna by 12:15

. Or maybe 12:30, who knows!!

Mrs Mc · 06-06-2016 10:41am

Best of luck today HBS

hot buttered scones · 06-06-2016 4:32pm

Home, wrecked and a bit annoyed. The start of the half went the wrong way - we ran an extra 0.4 miles into oncoming marathoners and relay runners. Garmin time was 1:39:36 and would have been 1:36:36 had we gone the right way. The heat and humidity really got to me. Felt a bit ill to be honest. I also tripped about 2 or so miles in and went flying but luckily laned on grass. I'll do a full report tomorrow.

Singer · 06-06-2016 5:07pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Home, wrecked and a bit annoyed. The start of the half went the wrong way - we ran an extra 0.4 miles into oncoming marathoners and relay runners. Garmin time was 1:39:36 and would have been 1:36:36 had we gone the right way. The heat and humidity really got to me. Felt a bit ill to be honest. I also tripped about 2 or so miles in and went flying but luckily laned on grass. I'll do a full report tomorrow.

That's a lot of stuff to go wrong, but still a decent time! Well done.

denis b · 06-06-2016 7:00pm

That is disappointing HBS. Hard enough grafting out there today without having to worry about where you are.

Mrs Mc · 06-06-2016 8:10pm

Bummer HBS that is such a mess up.

Mrs Mc · 06-06-2016 8:10pm

Bummer HBS that is such a mess up.

hot buttered scones · 12-06-2016 3:24am

After a busy week I though it was time time to update my log with a late report from Monday's Cork Half.

Not a great preparation. I didn't sleep much the night before - maybe about 4 hours. So I was up at 5:30, watched a bit of TV, showered, had breakfast etc. I was surprisingly nervous considering I had been telling myself that this wasn't a goal race. I headed into town in time to catch the marathon leaders go past (about 3.5 miles done for them) and watched a few friends and colleagues go past then headed over to the City hall to drop off the bag. I was feeling quite good at this stage - it was warm but there was a very slight cool breeze, it felt ok.
45 minutes to go - jogged the half mile to Kennedy Park very, very easy. Did some easy drills and activation exercises and some dynamic stretches. Queued for the loos and off to do the warmup proper - about 1 mile around the start area, just jogging really relaxed to keep moving and loose. I stopped for a bit to watch the marathon leaders go past. By this stage it had warmed up a bit, and I was starting to wonder about my plan. Then I saw the 1:30 pacers - I just decided to go with them for a bit. I knew full I'd loose them over the drags out the southside, but I thought I;d be able to get back on pace over the closing few miles. So in my head the target was 1:32.

Miles 1-3
6:40, 6:46, 7:11
The gun went on off we went - err, I thought we were supposed to take the first left, maybe I was wrong so it'll be left and left again. What??? Left and right??? Hang on this is the full course. Sh*t thats E*** B***** coming against us - he looks p*ssed off!!. We'd gone wrong. It was mayhem - the pacers were looking around at each other, there were streams of half marathoners on both sides of the road. Anyway we got back on course and straight away I heard some guy echo my thoughts - well that's the PB gone anyway. I tired to stick with the pace felt too hot so I watched as the little green ballons dissappeared off into the distance. We passed the 1st mile marker and my watch said 1.43 miles. M y head was all over the place. I could still see the pacers and I though if I could just keep the in sight I'd be ok. It was begin to feel to hot already so I backed off another bit as we headed down Monahan road towards the Atlantic pond. Then all of a sudden at around 2.5 miles I felt my right toe catch on something and the next thing I knew I was on the ground and my glasses had gone flying. I recovered the glasses, got up, told the person behind my who'd asked that I was ok and took of. My left arm and shoulder had some small bruise from where I'd landed on some small stones. As I ran I felt a sharp pain down my right leg - sort of in the IT band area. I thought my day might be over, but I kept running to see if it would get better. I have the 3rd mile as 7:11 pace - actaully I was doing around 6:45 for most of this mile, but really slowed down coming up out of the Atlantic pond and around the hairpin to get onto the Marina and the full course. We passed the first water stop and I took a bottle - drank some of and poured some over the back of my neck. I was overheating already. My HR was 162, 173 and 178 for these 3 miles. I hit more or less HR max coming out of the Atlantic Pond (there's a very short "hill" there) so thing weren't going well. We headed out the Centre Park Road. It was very humid, but we had some shade from the trees. Unfortunately the very leafy trees always play havoc with my GPS so my pace was jumping all over the place, so I just maintained the effort

Miles 4-6
6:54,7:12,7:15 177bpm, 178bpm, 176bpm
Mile 4 was along the Centre Park Road and up Victoria Road to Albert Quay. I'd forgotten about my leg, and was focussed on running, trying not to get caught up with slower marathoners. This mile felt ok despite the high HR (which I wasn't monitoring) - but it was getting hot Took a gel at 4 miles. Mile 5 was along the South Link. This is a dual carriageway with no pedestrain access ,so I hadn't run it since the marathon last year. I remember it feeling flatter. I just dragged. I slowed down, and again my GPS was taking the mick, reading 8:43 pace at one point, but I definelty wasn't doing that. I tried to run a good line here, and I think I just followed a couple of halfers running at my pace. Jesus, the slip road off up to Turners Cross nearly killed me - my Hr spiked to 182 when I come to the top of it. Mile 6 Curragh road and Tramore Road. Uggh. This was tough. The start of Curragh Road was the last time I felt anything resembling comfortable. I felt so much hotter now. From here on it was tough to drink - maybe two mouthfuls. The rest went over my head, neck, shoulder. I'd soak my vest and feel better for about a mile until the next stop. Curragh road was ok - warm but with a bit of a cool headwind. I turned the corner onto Tramore road and tried to follow the line. I could see nearly everyone ahead of me veering to the left - into the shade - and I was soon following. I nearly melted. The sun had come out in full force now and the humidity was stifling. My pace dropped off and I quit mentally. Therr was no PB, no chance of a good time, the race was meaningless and I was close to pulling up and quiting
Miles 7-9
7:39, 7:36, 7:51 173bpm, 169bpm, 167bpm
Lower Friars Walk. Or Everest? Ok 30 feet over less than 400m. Barely noticable on a good day almost broke me today. I had given up by the time I got to Pearse road. Decided to really back off. I looked at my watch and saw 7:4x. then I stopped looking at my watch for the rest of the race really. I felt sick, almost dizzy. I walked in order to take another gel. I couldn't breathe and mu lungs were burning. My legs were ok, I just felt hot and breathless. I don't remember much about who I passed or who passed me. I wasn't racing anymore, just enduring. I was constantly fighting an internal monologue telling me to quit. I slowed down until the effort felt bareable. Decision - It's too hot, don't make a b*lls of the rest of the season by overdoing a meaningless b*alls up of a race - slow down. When I got to the Lough I soaked myself with water. Again I drank only half the bottle if even. They had sponges which were gorgeous. Up Hartlands avenue then at about 7:50 to 8:00 pace. I think I just followed some marathoners here. Mile 8 had a good bit of downhill, were I was able to pick up the pace a little without raising the HR. I was going purely by effort know without really checking my pace as I just didn't care. Looking at the data I was struggling to break 7min/mile even going downhill except for the very steepest part. Another sharp short hill up onto the Wilton road. I was barely hanging onto 8min pace here. Mile 9 was the 2nd half of the Wilton Road and then the Model Farm Road - a small descent followed by a long drag. In short it sucked. Couldn't even get to Marathon pace going up Model Farm Road. The downhill section past Mount Mercy offered very little relief. With it the last relay change over point and a water stop. Another soaking, I knew now that the hardest part of the course was over. This cheered me up a bit. There was no more thoughts of dropping out - it was easier to finish.
Miles 10-12
7:40, 7:54, 7:39 167bpm, 164bpm, 167bpm
Mile 10: The rest of the Model Farm road and Inchigaggin lane
At last some downhill. I was at least feeling a bit better. There's sharp enough (and short) descent past the Tennis Village that I was looking forward to. I skipped the past gel - didn't need or want it. There was about 1/2 mile of flattish ground to cover first - which I did at roughly 8 min pace. Then the hill. About 400m of pure sub 7 bliss. Inchigaggin lane start with a small rise and then dips off. Its very much covered by trees and the air just felt thick and heavy here again so I just couldn't speed up - so just dipping under 8 here. There was a water stop at the end and they had Lucozade sport - about 100mls in cup. It felt cold and lovely and so so drinkable. The water went over my head again.
Mile 11. On the home stretch now back in the Straight Road. I started looking at the watch again. I flagged abit at the start if this mile. There was a cooling wind (yay!!) but it was a headwind (boo!!). So I'd push for a bit and then slow and so on. Still a very slow mile
Mile 12. Straight Road to the Mardyke. Got a roar from a lad from work just by the Kingsley Hotel. I got a great boost from this so I upped the pace a bit here. Went from doing about 8:30 to about 7:30. I felt like I was cruising going up the Mardyke. Pushing it a bit and knowing I was nearly done
Miles 13 - 13.54
7:26, 7:04 (3:44mins) 168bpm, 172bpm
Mile 13 Along the Mardyke to the North Quays.
Flying know, passing a few. Felt really bad though, uncomfortable and hot. There was a sub 1:40 on the cards and pride kicked in too. I was heading back into the City Centre and wanted to get something form the day. I went down the walkway by the old distillery and broke out onto the quay doing sub 7 pace on the flat for the first time since mile 4. I surged again across the North Gate Bridge out on Kyrls Quay, but slowed down a bit again
The last leg - 13.54 miles.
Another surge for about 200m and I had reached half marathon distance in 1:36:36 and I still had a bit to go yet. I couldn't wait to finish. The pace dipped again to about 7:40-8:00. I could hear the crowds along Lavitts Quay and I picked it up. Then the roars of encouragement. I heard a my name being called - a neighbour of mine and pushed again. As I turned the corner onto Patrick Street I saw my family all happy and waving and cheering and I put the hammer down and did my sprint finish. The only problem was I lasted about 100m and there was still 100m more to go!! Still a strong enough finish though for a time of 1:39:36. Met a few guys in the finish pen and everyone was raging at the cock up made at the start

Analysis. Tough day at the office. Was definetly found out. I lost the head and lost focus, so I wasn't ever going to push during that tough Middle section. I was totally overcome by the humidity on the day. I made a good decision to back when I felt unwell. I was nowhere near my best. My training hadn't been great for the previous 4 weeks- missed days, blown up during workouts. Got sick and had a couple of race performances that could have been a bit better. Looking back I think I had peaked for the 25k Great Railway Run back in mid April. I thought I could just continue that form on and jump into a half marathon training plan half way through, but I didn't work and I have been just about maintaining fitness without really improving. A lot went wrong on the day too. I went out too fast. I didn't take the conditions into account as much as I should have. Lessons learnt. I 'm going to back off racing frequently and really get stuck into marathon training now (Although I am jumping into a 5k next week before Mara training starts). The next big test will probably be Charleville, but I might also look at a 5 miler in August. We'll see.

hot buttered scones · 12-06-2016 3:31am

Post half Marathon week
Tuesday: Did 4 miles very easy, around 8pm in the shade. 9:39,9:15, 9:14, 9:05. then a full stretch and foam roll. I ran just to warm up for the stretch really
Wednesday&Thursday. 2 full days at work. No running.
Friday: 8.4 miles. Was supposed to be easy but ended up being a bit harder than that. Average pace 8:28, a big hill in the middle, and fast downhill finish. Felt good
Saturday: 6.2 miles before work. Easy enough. 8:32 but a lot cooler. Still suffered a bit of HR creep but the course was rolling - should have done this at about 9-9:15 pace though. I need to recover better and this kind of thing doesn't help

lenny palmer · 12-06-2016 6:52am

By all accounts it was a hard day for running in Cork. Even with the day that was in it with the heat and the mix up at the start you still went sub 1.40. You seemed to have run sensible on a day the heat got to a lot of people. PB''s make us feel great but every race is different and you have to run each race on its own merits.

Mrs Mc · 12-06-2016 8:36am

Sounds like you along with a lot of others had a tough day and a fall on top of that didn't help. As everyone says around these parts chalk it up to experience learn lessons from the race write it off and move onto the next challenge. Well done

Murph_D · 12-06-2016 8:59am

Good report. Not a bad run at all under the circumstances - tracks quite well with my own experience over the full. A decent time in the end for the 13.6 miles on the day. I'd take heart from it - you churned out some decent enough splits even when really feeling it.

FBOT01 · 12-06-2016 10:08am

Can't win them all, M. Glad you tough it out since it was your home town race. Bank it and move on. In relation to moving on you need to not only know that you should be running slower in your recovery period but you also need to do it

Take it handy and make sure you are good to go before you kick off your next marathon cycle.

hot buttered scones · 12-06-2016 1:50pm

lenny palmer wrote: »

By all accounts it was a hard day for running in Cork. Even with the day that was in it with the heat and the mix up at the start you still went sub 1.40. You seemed to have run sensible on a day the heat got to a lot of people. PB''s make us feel great but every race is different and you have to run each race on its own merits.

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Sounds like you along with a lot of others had a tough day and a fall on top of that didn't help. As everyone says around these parts chalk it up to experience learn lessons from the race write it off and move onto the next challenge. Well done

Murph_D wrote: »

Good report. Not a bad run at all under the circumstances - tracks quite well with my own experience over the full. A decent time in the end for the 13.6 miles on the day. I'd take heart from it - you churned out some decent enough splits even when really feeling it.

Cheers lads. Yes plenty of lessons learned. At the end of the day I finished well when suffering and wasn't the only one struggling. I finished in 115th place out of 2065, and was the 102nd man out of 1127. The website says I came 12th in my age group out of 102, but they seem to have gotten a lot of the age groups wrong - but if the website says I'll take it. 115th place in 2015 ran in 1:32:04, so while I was initially disappointed in my time, I'm happy with the placing.

FBOT01 wrote: »

Can't win them all, M. Glad you tough it out since it was your home town race. Bank it and move on. In relation to moving on you need to not only know that you should be running slower in your recovery period but you also need to do it

Take it handy and make sure you are good to go before you kick off your next marathon cycle.

Cheers FBOT01. I've no real niggles to speak of - just a bit of tightness here and there so I'll be getting a Sports massage and being best friends with the foam roller for a bit. As for the recovery runs, the aim will be to keep the HR below about 140. I struggle in the heat though, and I've found once it goes out of range its hard to get it back down. I'll work on it though. The 8ish miles was more in the GA range, with HR hitting Threshold as I climbed the hill (I did break into a walk at one stage). Plenty of slow running on grass if possible for me. As for long runs - I'm not inclined to go too far for the next couple of weeks. I'm taking today off because I'm coming off nights. I was thinking 10 or so miles easy on grass tomorrow, recovery Tuesday - maybe 30 or 40 minutes, then a 5k race on Wednesday. Then 2 more days rest while I'm on the day shift. After that I;m looking at starting the P+D plan a week or so early to build in a buffer week, and so I can take more rest days while on holidays. I'm still not sold on P+D though. I might be better off just base building with medium long runs to 15 miles and doing a 12 week plan. I also came across this plan while googling:

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/images/asics/ASICS_TRAININGPLANS_Sub%203.30.pdf

It seems ok to me, starts off on low enough mileage and builds to the kind of mileage I've been doing this year, and has a couple of half marathon races which fit in with local races. I might post it in the random running questions thread for some more feedback.

hot buttered scones · 13-06-2016 11:56pm

Monday: 12 miles @ 9:19/mile. I ran by HR trying to keep it below 140. It was OK for the first few mile and climbed to 160 briefly when I climbed a hill. It did creep above 140 by a few bpm for the last few miles. Started feeling hungry about mile 7 or 8 and really struggled from mile 9. I only had a slice of toast for breakfast, but usually that's not a problem. I had very little energy. It got fairly warm and humid as the run progressed which had a huge effect even though I drank 250ml of water every 3 miles. Just tired I reckon. Nothing major planned for Tuesday. Just some recovery miles at some stage.

HigginsJ · 14-06-2016 11:04am

Really enjoying the thread, that half marathon day really ought to set you up for whatever challenges come up in future, fair play.

hot buttered scones · 16-06-2016 4:55pm

Tuesday 14th June
Went out in the evening to do some easy miles around a soccer pitch. The long and the short of it is I got involved with trying to find the owners of a lost dog and ended up running alongside the dog to make sure it got home. So 2 runs - run 1 2.7 miles @ 9:20, but with the last 5 minutes slightly faster as I went home to get my phone. The 3.1 miles broken up as I ran back to where the dog was then jogged with him until we found his owners - so 3.1@9:49, with mile 2 @ 11:38 as I jogged alongside the dog. So for proper recovery bring a slow dog with you. Total miles 5.8

Wednesday 15th June
There was loads of races on in Cork this week. I choose the Clonpriest 5k near Youghal - relatively flat, only €10 and chip timed - with one of those funny shoe tag things. Did a 2 mile warmup@9:17 with some small drills and a couple of strides
And then the race: The course was relativley flat, although the 1st mile was slightly downhill. The start was back from the village about 400m with a slight drag up to the village were there was a lot of local support. Of course this meant due to foolish bravado you couldn't slow down when you realised you were going a bit too fast. I was hanging on to the back of a large group as we turned the corner and the road began to drop a bit. I still felt good and knew the finish was a drag so I just thought I'd bank some time for the last mile. I dropped off the back of the group and settle into race pace for about the last 200m of the mile. Mile 1 was done in 5:57!!
Mile 2 - 6:29 Well, I struggled to hang on over the second half of this mile. The road was flat or slightly rising but ok. By the end of this mile my lungs were burning and my legs were on autopilot. HR maxed out at 188bpm twice during this mile.
Mile 3 - 6:42 A horrendous battle of wills between my lungs legs and mind to just keep moving. For about 400m after 2.5 mile I was barely doing over 7:10 and paying the price for my early exuberance. The last km felt like a huge drag when I was that tired and I ended up surging and slowing to keep up my average pace
The last bit - measured at 0.13 miles at 6:30 pace. I was dying now but within sight of the finish line I could see my goal was in reach and gave one last burst to the finish. I'm going with Chip time on this - 19:58!!! A PB by 8 seconds on tired legs and finally sub 20!!. I've been a bit obsessed with doing a sub 20 5k for a while now, although I've never really trained specifically for a 5k race. The box is ticked and I can move on from this now. I;m delighted with the PB. But there was also another surprise. This was a small local race to raise funds for the local scholl (great spread by the way) with 221 runners. I headed off home after my tea, sandwiches and cake. I received a text from a work colleague who was at the race to say I'd come third in my age group. Ok, so this was after prizes for the first 6 finishers some of would be in my age group I'd say and I was beaten some older guys too, but I was chasing a time not a place. This is the first time I'd won a prize at anything ever as an individual so I'm a bit chuffed.
So - it was a terribly run race by me, badly paced and I nearly gave up in the last mile (I've gotten mentally weaker this year in races for some reason) but I achieved my goal and won something. So I'm happy with the outcome and don't care at all about the tactics I used.

Finished with a 2 mile cool down with company in 8:34/mile

Thursday 16th
4 miles recovery @ 9:52/mile Woke at the crack of dawn and couldn't get back to sleep. I'd planned a lunchtime recovery run today, but I decided to just head into work early and have a bit of a jog around before work. So a 4 mile total out and back to the Naval Base. The legs were tired and like jelly and I ran out of steam after 3 miles. I hadn't eaten enough yesterday (felt a bit queasy on the way home last night) and had no breakfast yet so I was wrecked. Funny one though - I had to pick up the pace with about 400m to go to finish - it like I couldn't run at recovery pace anymore but I had small bit left at a higher gear. I have since demolished half the contents of the canteen and feel great now. :-)

Mrs Mc · 16-06-2016 9:49pm

Pb and age group placing call that a good day at the office ..... it must have been your good deed finding the lost dog !!!

denis b · 17-06-2016 12:46am

Congrats HBS. Very entertaining report. The agony of effort jumps out :eek:. A little bit of me is wondering how a managed paced attempt would go for you

. Ignore me as I think I am just pain averse

hot buttered scones · 17-06-2016 10:13am

denis b wrote: »

Congrats HBS. Very entertaining report. The agony of effort jumps out :eek:. A little bit of me is wondering how a managed paced attempt would go for you . Ignore me as I think I am just pain averse

I'm wondering the same thing myself tbh, but that's for another day. It was a good blowout and I've gotten as bit of taste for racing again. I might race again next week, but more controlled. Whatever you do it's always going to hurt at some stage.

I forgot to mention the dry heaving at the end. I think I might have scared the kiddies.

hot buttered scones · 20-06-2016 4:34pm

Friday 17th rest

Saturday 18th
Morning: Headed out to Ballincollig Parkrun for my first time to volunteer. I arrived about 8:30 to get a run in first and met some of the organisers/volunteers. So I did a freedom run with one of them. Nice course a in a lovely park that I didn't know the half of. Was supposed to be easy but we got a bit carried away - not too much though. 5k in 25 minutes

Afternoon: I had planned on running to park run and back into town but a late start meant that was off the cards so when I got home I went out for a few more miles. Was supposed to be easy but it didn't work out that way. I was just doing laps of the pitch and it turned into a progression run - 9:22, 8:42, 8:16, 7:11. Headed around the park and local area for some cool down miles. When I got back to the pitch I finished off with a few diagonals and jogged up the hill home. Total miles 7.1. Daily total 10.1

Sunday 19th

In between night shifts. 7 miles @8:35/mile - this is between easy and MP for me, so steady? A humid evening, but the HR stayed low enough, creeping slowly from 130ish at the start to just above 150 the end. Total weekly mileage: 46.5 Cumulative yearly mileage: 954.2

Monday 20th

Meh. Rest day. Maybe. Tired after nights.

hot buttered scones · 22-06-2016 8:40am

Tuesday 21st

13.3 miles@9:03. A hard slog with a long hill in humid conditions. Average HR 157, higher when climbing. I struggled to keep the HR down. I would have cut it short if it wasn't for the fact it was out and back route and I had to get back to the car. Still, I bought a new camelbak bladder - fitted it into an Aldi running back pack - and got to test it out. It'll be good for holiday runs and runs to work, or those easy paced long runs where just wander about.

FBOT01 · 22-06-2016 4:51pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Tuesday 21st

13.3 miles@9:03. A hard slog with a long hill in humid conditions. Average HR 157, higher when climbing. I struggled to keep the HR down. I would have cut it short if it wasn't for the fact it was out and back route and I had to get back to the car. Still, I bought a new camelbak bladder - fitted it into an Aldi running back pack - and got to test it out. It'll be good for holiday runs and runs to work, or those easy paced long runs where just wander about.

:eek: Did we miss something are you heading the ultra route??

Been away so have some catching up to do. Couple of questions:

Where the 140 HR target for easy runs come from?
Did you decide on what plan you are going with for DCM?
I might be misreading but you seem to do a bit of "supposed to be slow but end up faster than it should have been" type runs. Has this always been a factor in your training?

Still trying to figure it all out.

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