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All households must be registered with a licensed waste collector by July 1

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    #212
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Our neighbours have never put out a rubbish bin/bag.
    Every day they bring a little bag of rubbish to town and put it in one of the street bins.


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    #213
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Why?
    Let the companies who produce all these products that are packaged in environment-destroying containers pay for the deposit or take back their plastic.
    And who do you think will pay for that? The people who buy the products!

    One way or another, the consumer will pay for it.

    I would rather pay directly for the cost of disposing of my rubbish. If I'm paying by proxy, then it will be skimmed off the top by companies and the government and work out more expensive in the long run.

    As an example, let's say you get a 15c rebate when you bring back a glass bottle. So the manufacturer adds 15c to the cost of the product. That seems fair, right?

    Except then you apply VAT of 23% and the manufacturer realises that the cost of handling returns and the rebate itself works out to 3c per bottle.

    So the price of the product increases by 22c, of which I get back 15c.

    So not only have I paid 7c to recycle it, I've had to bring it to a shop to make sure I only pay 7c and not 22c!


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    #214
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    josip wrote: »
    Our neighbours have never put out a rubbish bin/bag.
    Every day they bring a little bag of rubbish to town and put it in one of the street bins.

    It is an offence to dispose of your household refuse in street litter bins. If you do this, you face prosecution by the local authority.


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    #215
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    HensVassal wrote: »
    And how pray tell will this stop someone fly tipping?
    I'm curious to know.

    So am I.
    Jayop wrote: »
    Why would they fly tip if they are paying for rubbish collection?

    Ehh because they not want to put the bins out so often or if they are collected by weight they want to lessen the weight put out ?

    Are we going to get to a situation where someone is investigated because they only put the bin out every 3/4 weeks or because there is shag all in because payment is weight based ?

    BTW what about holiday homes where the bins may never go out bar the odd time in summer or they may not even have a waste collector because the place is used only sporadically ?
    HensVassal wrote: »
    What are you on about? A guy drives out along a country road, dumps an old mattress in a ditch and drives off. That's fly-tipping. What's receipts got to do with anything?

    Exactly.

    Cost is the big thing.

    When you charge someone 50 euro to dump a mattress, then people will fly tip.

    When you start charging by weight or number of collections then people will find ways to cut those costs.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #216
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    jmayo wrote: »
    When you charge someone 50 euro to dump a mattress, then people will fly tip.
    There's a recent thread where people talk about the rubbish furniture some landlords put in their properties for tenants to use. I was able to get my landlord to remove some nasty peed-in beds so I could purchase my own. If it had cost him lots of money to remove them, he might have refused, as do many landlords anyway.


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    #217
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    seamus wrote: »
    You've been paying for your bins for at least a decade, if not more.

    What's "sneaky" about this change?

    Is there ANY charge that you will not gladly accept or at least question?


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    #218
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,746 ✭✭✭degsie


    This is gas. OP posted a 'story' with no proof and ppl are sniping at each other :)


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    #219
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Graham wrote: »
    Imagine that, maybe they should just be allowed to layoff the refuse collectors for the weeks they're not needed. Zero hours contracts maybe?

    The reality is there are fixed costs to providing the service regardless of your usage. The variable costs (the amount of waste) you can cut back on.

    Well maybe they should. If such a thing were to happen in say a restaurant or farm, you'd rationalise it by meekly stating that that's how capitalism and the sacred market works.


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    #220
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Well maybe they should. If such a thing were to happen in say a restaurant or farm, you'd rationalise it by meekly stating that that's how capitalism and the sacred market works.

    You're remarkably familiar with my opinions regarding capitalism and open markets. Good for you, it's nice to know I have followers. Even more impressive considering you've brought yourself up-to speed in a few short weeks.

    In this particular instance I consider refuse collection a service that needs to be constantly provided and one in which the fixed costs should be shared equally and the variable costs based on consumption.


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    #221
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    gozunda wrote: »
    In Ireland yes I would agree. Many other EU countries appear to do public service provision very well.



    Where I am - there is no 'choice'. Just one single operator. Re efficiency back to the first point above. Plus I also already pay significantly higher taxes across the board from 15 years ago when rubbish disposal was a 'free service'.



    Ok but who gets to decide which services get fed to the carpet baggers and which are provided for? It is arguable whether the privatisation of public transport in the UK has resulted in it being any more 'effective' tbh.



    This argument also holds true for the provision of "waste, electricity and public transport," type services

    The management of waste for example provides for a host of indirect benefit including public health, the environment and pollution prevention.

    Thank you. Someone who can see the bigger picture rather than refusing to think for themselves.


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    #222
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    Speedwell wrote: »
    There's a recent thread where people talk about the rubbish furniture some landlords put in their properties for tenants to use. I was able to get my landlord to remove some nasty peed-in beds so I could purchase my own. If it had cost him lots of money to remove them, he might have refused, as do many landlords anyway.

    :eek:


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    #223
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Graham wrote: »
    Many don't.



    Would be a more compelling point if there were actually some evidence of it happening in recent years.

    Kudos for those two non-answers.


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    #224
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Kudos for those two non-answers.

    Kudos for spotting there were no answers to no question. ;)

    Unless of course you're referring to the question you purported to ask and answer on my behalf?


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    #225
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    seamus wrote: »
    And who do you think will pay for that? The people who buy the products!

    One way or another, the consumer will pay for it.

    I would rather pay directly for the cost of disposing of my rubbish. If I'm paying by proxy, then it will be skimmed off the top by companies and the government and work out more expensive in the long run.

    As an example, let's say you get a 15c rebate when you bring back a glass bottle. So the manufacturer adds 15c to the cost of the product. That seems fair, right?

    Except then you apply VAT of 23% and the manufacturer realises that the cost of handling returns and the rebate itself works out to 3c per bottle.

    So the price of the product increases by 22c, of which I get back 15c.

    So not only have I paid 7c to recycle it, I've had to bring it to a shop to make sure I only pay 7c and not 22c!

    Where did the 22c figure come from?


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    #226
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Graham wrote: »
    It is an offence to dispose of your household refuse in street litter bins. If you do this, you face prosecution by the local authority.


    Install a multi-million euro system of surveillance cameras to see who's skirting a 3 euro disposal fee.


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    #227
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Graham wrote: »
    Many don't.

    That does not negate the point I made. What solution do you suggest?
    Graham wrote: »
    Would be a more compelling point if there were actually some evidence of it happening in recent years.

    What are you referring to and more importantly what point are you trying to make here?


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    #228
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Install a multi-million euro system of surveillance cameras to see who's skirting a 3 euro disposal fee.

    Who suggested that? Much better idea I think to ensure all households have made appropriate arrangements for the disposal of their household waste.


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    #229
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,746 ✭✭✭degsie


    Graham wrote: »
    Who suggested that? Much better idea I think to ensure all households have made appropriate arrangements for the disposal of their household waste.

    The mass methodizes the chivalrous regret.


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    #230
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Is there ANY charge that you will not gladly accept or at least question?
    Ah, the strawman. I question every charge. I assess it's validity and what makes the most sense from a cost perspective.

    As a taxpayer, one way or another I am paying for public services. There's no such thing as a free lunch. The question is whether I feel a user-pays model, a socialised model or a hybrid model is the best way of paying for a service.

    And that depends on each service.
    HensVassal wrote: »
    Where did the 22c figure come from?
    15c + 3c + 23%.


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    #231
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    What the forced move to pay-by-weight boils down to is the state deciding to remove choice from citizens. It might not affect everybody, but it's still the removal of choice. The state is preventing the bin company and me from continuing with a flat-charge arrangement that suits us both and covers all costs.

    The counter argument is that Europe is forcing us to change. Well, this state already has the third highest domestic recycling rate in Europe. And I don't see this state rolling over to implement other European initiatives, e.g. corporate tax policies. When the state was forced to abolish import tax on cars, a way (VRT) was found to maintain the status quo. Not to mention how most TDs now believe that we can eliminate water charges without falling foul of EU legislation.

    Compared with the rest of Europe, this country is good at domestic recycling. What we (as a country) aren't good at is preventing fly-tipping. Or casual littering on the street. Or preventing scummy dog owners from leaving dog crap all over the place. But as always, it's easier just to pass a lazy law that hits the compliant by imposing a tax or a charge, or in this case by restricting choice.


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    #232
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,802 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    So now we have to pay to get our "recyclable" waste collected as well?

    Will this just not encourage people to say fcuk it and throw it in with their normal household rubbish?


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    #233
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    mfceiling wrote: »
    So now we have to pay to get our "recyclable" waste collected as well?

    Will this just not encourage people to say fcuk it and throw it in with their normal household rubbish?

    Asfaik recyclables will be charged at a lower rate. I could be wrong.

    Edit

    These are the advised minimum charges as listed by the Doe

    Recycling / Green Bin – 2 cents a kilo
    Food waste / brown bin – 6 cents a kilo
    Residual waste / black bin – 11 cents a kilo

    Your service provider is at liberty to charge more ...


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    #234
    prodsc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭prodsc


    mfceiling wrote: »
    So now we have to pay to get our "recyclable" waste collected as well?

    Been like that for quite some time round my way. it is considerably cheaper than waste though, so it does still encourage you to recycle!


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    #235
    VincePP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 982 ✭✭✭VincePP


    A lot of people complaining. However the litter issue on the roads around Ireland is phenomenal. Have a drive on the old n7 from monasterevin to emo, or the main road between adare and Rathkeale.

    Utterly disgusting.

    A basic collection base charge being mandatory is exactly what is needed. The relatively small additional cost of waste and the lesser cost for recycling will see the disgusting bags of rubbish strewn around verges drop considerably

    Hopefully they change fines too and any dumping of over 1kg of rubbish should be fined €500 + €100 per kg


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    #236
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    I requested a quotation for July from a local waste collector and they wrote back, "the prices are not yet set but we'll let you know".


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    #237
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Do you lot down south not have council tax (rates)that pays for the collection of your bins then? If not why not? We get illegal dumping in Northern Ireland but it's mostly industrial waste/ toxic chemical waste from the illegal diesel trade in s Armagh etc that is the issue. Are youse talking about household waste??


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    #238
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Do you lot down south not have council tax (rates)that pays for the collection of your bins then? If not why not? We get illegal dumping in Northern Ireland but it's mostly industrial waste/ toxic chemical waste from the illegal diesel trade in s Armagh etc that is the issue. Are youse talking about household waste??

    Household waste, yes. No, the council don't handle this, and no, I don't know why. Others might. I'm an American immigrant who's been here for two years, and I'm used to paying this bill bundled with my (much more modest) monthly water/sewer bill as an add-on to my apartment rent.

    Where I'm from it is not handled by the council either, but by "water districts" http://harriscountywcid36.com/whatis.htm (they are still political offices). Here's their page on waste collection http://www.harriscountywcid36.com/garbage.htm (note the charge per month per household!).

    This actually wasn't my exact district, but it is representative of the many water districts in the region.


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    #239
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    On the main N30 today I saw several bags of rubbish at the side of the road both sides in several places in the space of a half-mile .

    Normally you might see one bag , but this was shocking .


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    #240
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Bio Mech wrote: »
    What a load of rubbish. I refuse to sign up to this garbage.

    Less of that trash talk!


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    #241
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Speedwell wrote: »
    Household waste, yes. No, the council don't handle this, and no, I don't know why. Others might. I'm an American immigrant who's been here for two years, and I'm used to paying this bill bundled with my (much more modest) monthly water/sewer bill as an add-on to my apartment rent.

    I'm still confused. So you pay a private company down there to lift your household rubbish? In Northern Ireland we pay rates which includes the collection of our household waste in wheelie bins of 3 colours every fortnight. In the meantime we can take out rubbish to council deposit dumps from everything to fridges to TVs to paint etc as long as it's single household waste (all for free btw as included in our rates) just not business or builders waste etc.

    It seems weird that the republic wouldn't have a similar system.


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