Tesla Model 3

mrcheez

cros13 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeL2c1eR4hU

I was up dancing a jig to that! Bejaysus & begorrah!

goz83

cros13 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeL2c1eR4hU

And it's on UK PLATES :mad:

highdef

cros13 wrote: »

Anyway back on topic... Tesla have confirmed the third supercharger location at the westbound Enfield MSA.

Glad I live very close to Enfield so 😀

bk

And enabling Ludicrous mode on that back road! :eek::eek:

xCiaránx

The launch event on Wednesday was pretty cool, it's great to finally have a Tesla presence in the country. The showroom's pretty slick and the presentation/Q&A itself was interesting. Having my first Tesla ride-along was pretty novel too, from experiencing that outrageous Model S acceleration to sitting in a car that was driving itself (albeit limited to 35 km/h for now). It seemed like they had half the Tesla UK team over to help run the event.

I must have a gawk at the superchargers the next time I'm heading down to Cork.

I've had a Model 3 pre-ordered since October, and I expect it'll be well over two years before I see it. But now I really can't wait. Still, it'll be useful time to save what I can towards it...

Soarer

Apologies for not reading back through 30+ pages.

Was chatting to a fella while ago that has a deposit down for the 3. He was asking me about the Leaf, and is fully convinced that EV is the way forward. Strangely though, he also seemed convinced that the Model 3 was gonna come in at around ?30k after grants and stuff. I told him I reckoned it'd be between ?45k and ?50k. His face told me he didn't like that news!
So who's right? 'Cause if it's gonna be coming in around ?30k, I throw a deposit on one myself!

aliveandkicking

Soarer wrote: »

Apologies for not reading back through 30+ pages.

Was chatting to a fella while ago that has a deposit down for the 3. He was asking me about the Leaf, and is fully convinced that EV is the way forward. Strangely though, he also seemed convinced that the Model 3 was gonna come in at around ?30k after grants and stuff. I told him I reckoned it'd be between ?45k and ?50k. His face told me he didn't like that news!
So who's right? 'Cause if it's gonna be coming in around ?30k, I throw a deposit on one myself!

See post #127 on this thread where Unkel did a calculation and came up with a figure of ?39k base price for the Model 3. It is the best educated guess I've seen as he looks to have got the VRT/VAT calculations spot on.

Soarer

Good maths Unkel.

If you're right, it'll certainly keep Nissan, Hyundai, et al honest as regards their pricing. I mean, why would you spend €35k on a Leaf when you can have a Tesla for €40k.

Mc-BigE

How much are people paying for insurance in Ireland for a Tesla? 
I know that's a very broad question, but let say a 40 year old male with clean licence, full NCB, was driving something like a 520d. which is a good example for someone who is buying a model S.

Will a P100D say be classed as a high performance sports car,  Like an BMW M3 or M5 for example?
has anybody any figures?

Calahonda52

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/teslas-new-electric-car-claims-to-get-600km-out-of-one-battery-charge-but-the-hefty-price-tag-might-shock-irish-buyers-35666801.html

".."The future is here," says Tesla and it claims that the top S model, with twin motors, is the quickest production car in the world (beating the most lively Porsche) with an acceleration of 0-100kmh in just under 2.7 seconds. Tesla says that a full charge will cost about €5-€7 on night-time electricity, which will generate 605bhp with 960NM of torque through the motors to give a top speed of 250kmh, with absolutely no emissions and no road tax. The range depends very much on driving style and a moderate climate benefits longer battery life.

...
Tesla has set up showrooms at Bracken Road in Sandyford, Co Dublin and already there is huge interest. Last Wednesday night 450 interested motorists booked in for a viewing in just 12 hours and Tesla staff had to "shut the gates". Orders are already on the books and Tesla has decided there will be no dealerships - just the outlet at Bracken Road - from where test drives can be arranged.

IT bosses, well-healed environmentalists, snobbish professionals, boardsies and Lotto winners will be anxious to get behind the wheel of the Tesla brand, which has stunned the motor industry with its rapid growth. The company is building a new battery manufacturing complex to keep ahead of the posse, and a more moderately priced Model 3 with an Audi A4-sized body is on the way next year. It has an American price tag of $35,000 (expect about €55,000 here)...:D

Calahonda52

Calahonda52 wrote: »

It has an American price tag of $35,000 (expect about €55,000 here)...:D

See, this again is an example of poor journalism, firstly there is 10 K off a new EV in Ireland !!!

That's a figure pulled from the ass !

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

See, this again is an example of poor journalism, firstly there is 10 K off a new EV in Ireland !!!

That's a figure pulled from the ass !

I suspect 40K on the road base model will be about right.

This will keep Nissan on their toes , but will murder the e-golf , i3 and any small future EV from an upmarket brand. Companies like BMW will have to compete at electric 3 series level to survive against tesla

Assuming musk delivers ...............

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

I suspect 40K on the road base model will be about right.

This will keep Nissan on their toes , but will murder the e-golf , i3 and any small future EV from an upmarket brand. Companies like BMW will have to compete at electric 3 series level to survive against tesla

Assuming musk delivers ...............

He will... The real question is how much delayed the delivery will be... And will it be relevant anymore

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

He will... The real question is how much delayed the delivery will be... And will it be relevant anymore

There are many things , tesla have to prove , can it make and support a mass market car and do so profitably ( Goldman Sachs has its doubts ) , can it engineer better reliability into its cars , as compared to the poor reliability suffered by model S owners ( albeit with very quick comprehensive , and expensive to tesla , service support )

Can its distribution methodology work for a mass car , ???

For credibility tesla model ship in reasonable volumes the LHD model 3 by early 2018 and the car will need to be very bug free.

Musk has certainly cut a rod to beat his back !!!

eeguy

grogi wrote: »

He will... The real question is how much delayed the delivery will be... And will it be relevant anymore

He did a TED talk last week where he said they're still on track to deliver.

Now I'd take it with a pinch of salt, but there hasn't been any horror stories this time around unlike previous cars.

BoatMad wrote: »

There are many things , tesla have to prove , can it make and support a mass market car and do so profitably ( Goldman Sachs has its doubts ) , can it engineer better reliability into its cars , as compared to the poor reliability suffered by model S owners ( albeit with very quick comprehensive , and expensive to tesla , service support )

Can its distribution methodology work for a mass car , ???

For credibility tesla model ship in reasonable volumes the LHD model 3 by early 2018 and the car will need to be very bug free.

Musk has certainly cut a rod to beat his back !!!

100% agree with this, but if there was ever a man and company to rise to the challenge it'd be Tesla. I wonder how the other automakers will react if the Model 3 proves to be as cheap and popular as they hype hints at.

BoatMad

eeguy wrote: »

He did a TED talk last week where he said they're still on track to deliver.

Now I'd take it with a pinch of salt, but there hasn't been any horror stories this time around unlike previous cars.

Given , the money invested , he'll have to deliver , even with a delay. The market will not give Tesla a second chance.

The other thing is the EV market will be more and more competitive and tesla will not have a clear run at it , the way they did with the model S . The auto industry will not sit back , like it did up till now, regarding Tesla as a quirky niche company. Tesla is playing with the big boys now !!

BoatMad

eeguy wrote: »

He did a TED talk last week where he said they're still on track to deliver.

Now I'd take it with a pinch of salt, but there hasn't been any horror stories this time around unlike previous cars.



100% agree with this, but if there was ever a man and company to rise to the challenge it'd be Tesla. I wonder how the other automakers will react if the Model 3 proves to be as cheap and popular as they hype hints at.

The auto industry is huge and collectively has massive access to capital. Tesla has is now playing in the " senior side" and the competition will not sit back ( it can't afford to )

Remember little tech in EVs is proprietary , drive trains are simple , Li tech is reasonably well understood

Auto companies have the knowledge to make mass market cars , unlike Tesla they have a well defined , tried and trusted distribution and sales process .

I fully expect within 5 years to see mainstream EVs from all the major European car companies.

unkel

You have a lot of confidence in the auto industry / incumbent giants. I hope you are right but I wouldn't be so sure.

Tesla will deliver the first $35k junior executive performance cars in a few months time (or so), that will have a substantial range (60kWh)

No one else is even close to this. Not even within a year. Are they even preparing?

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

You have a lot of confidence in the auto industry / incumbent giants. I hope you are right but I wouldn't be so sure.

Tesla will deliver the first $35k junior executive performance cars in a few months time (or so), that will have a substantial range (60kWh)

No one else is even close to this. Not even within a year. Are they even preparing?

The " informed " seem to think the entry level model 3 will be around 40kWh , no one expects the 60 kWh to be " base spec "

Mass delivery of the Model 3 will be at least 18 months away from my reading and tesla will struggle to make 500,000 units a year ( which ford can do per model in a heart beat )

Think about it , a relatively small Korean player can release a competitive car , you think giants like Ford , VW , etc can't , seriously ? , the engineering is simplistic , the parts are virtually off the shelf.

What you are seeing is fence siting

Remember IBM is still around , Compac is not !!!

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

The " informed " seem to think the entry level model 3 will be around 40kWh , no one expects the 60 kWh to be " base spec "

Mass delivery of the Model 3 will be at least 18 months away from my reading and tesla will struggle to make 500,000 units a year ( which ford can do per model in a heart beat )

Think about it , a relatively small Korean player can release a competitive car , you think giants like Ford , VW , etc can't , seriously ? , the engineering is simplistic , the parts are virtually off the shelf.

What you are seeing is fence siting

Remember IBM is still around , Compac is not !!!

According to cros13 the issue they will have is the lack of battery supply, not engineering capability and Tesla have already hedged that bet with the gigafactory so maybe the big boys have sat on the fence a bit too long?!

cros13

Mc-BigE wrote: »

How much are people paying for insurance in Ireland for a Tesla?

I couldn't get a solid quote from anyone when I was looking a few years back. But in general EVs tend to get substantially cheaper insurance than the ICE equivalents.

BoatMad wrote: »

This will keep Nissan on their toes , but will murder the e-golf , i3 and any small future EV from an upmarket brand. Companies like BMW will have to compete at electric 3 series level to survive against tesla.

The i3 has it's niche. It's basically the best city car ever built.

Shorter than a Ford Fiesta
More interior space than a 3-series
Turning circle equiv. to a Fiat 500
Stunning interior design
Can carry a 60cm wide dishwasher in packaging with the boot closed and plenty of extra space (which I did last weekend)
Better visibility than any of the above
0-100km/h in the region of 6 seconds and one of the quickest BMWs to 50km/h ever made

And with the new i3S it will add All Wheel Drive and lop a second off the 0-100 time.

Hell... I might be moving back to the city next year it which case the i3S will be a better fit than the Model 3 for me.

BoatMad wrote: »

The " informed " seem to think the entry level model 3 will be around 40kWh , no one expects the 60 kWh to be " base spec "

My bet is on a ~50kWh base pack with options up to ~70kWh.

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

Remember IBM is still around

And yet they don't really build any hardware much any more. Maybe we'll get the Toyota Consulting Corporation next?

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

According to cros13 the issue they will have is the lack of battery supply, not engineering capability and Tesla have already hedged that bet with the gigafactory so maybe the big boys have sat on the fence a bit too long?!

We shall see , but I don't expect the industry to give the mid car EV market to Tesla without a fight

Water John

The bigger the ship, the harder to turn it around.
Major car manufacturers have invested so much in R & D, tooling, training. they want a return on that investment.
They, at senior management level may also lack the vision. I think it was the head of BMW, sorry Cros, that foresaw EVs having only about 10% of the market in 15 years time.
Remember the head of IBM said there would only be 4 computers in the world.
Whilst IBM is still around, it doesn't hold the position it once had and many new players in the computer market.

unkel

I'd like to believe otherwise, but the cynic in me has to agree with you, Water John.

I'm also skeptical about the market cap of Tesla and in how far their plans and promises will work, but you have to hand it to a man who made billions, several times, with his vision of the future. Be it about money, about space, about electric vehicles.

cros13

Water John wrote: »

They, at senior management level may also lack the vision. I think it was the head of BMW, sorry Cros, that foresaw EVs having only about 10% of the market in 15 years time.

There was a big battle at board-level in early September between the EV bulls and the EV sceptics at BMW. The EV sceptics lost.

The difference on the development side after that was like night and day. All the EV projects are now getting full funding, ICE development money is being cut and they had a big conference of senior managers, manufacturing guys and engineers around the new year to tell them about the new reality.

The EV 3-series went from a project being quietly hidden from senior management by R&D, to a fully funded priority program.

Water John

Yeah, I think I'm quoting the CEO from about last year.
Did he retire, or did he have a road to Damascus moment?

You have good news there. BMW have real potential as they were the fardest advanced of the traditional makers.

cros13

Water John wrote: »

Yeah, I think I'm quoting the CEO from about last year.
Did he retire, or did he have a road to Damascus moment?

Somewhat of a conversion. Though I'm not sure your quote is accurate. BMW were already at 10% PHEV and BEV last year in North America for example.

Water John wrote: »

You have good news there. BMW have real potential as they were the fardest advanced of the traditional makers.

The question is will they have stemmed the bleeding in time. Practically the whole team that developed the i3 and i8 have left. They had nothing to do for 4 years except minor refreshes and PHEVs built with ZF-supplied electrification kits. No serious work on EV-related services, motor development, battery architecture or new models.

jimmycrackcorm

BoatMad wrote:

Remember IBM is still around , Compac is not !!!

An interesting comparison but HP bought compaq and still make laptops while IBM sold theirs to Lenovo.

Maybe another comparison is better made to Nokia who lost out to Apple in the phone game.

isnottheword

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

An interesting comparison but HP bought compaq and still make laptops while IBM sold theirs to Lenovo.

Not wanting to take this off topic but HP didn't do so well thereafter in the laptop world - yes, they still make them but their focus these days is on services.

I guess the issue for Tesla is the gigantic scale of the industry they are in. As an example, was in the 'States for a time last year and recall GM suing Tesla for unreasonable competitive advantage - given Tesla's policy of not having a dealership network and selling directly. I think they got their way in some states with that nonsense.