Tesla Model 3

josip

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I did notice that the Swiss seem fond of their Skodas ..... several models (1900 cars for the period).

Shhh, you'll get Shef started on about them again...

amcalester

ELM327 wrote: »

I've cancelled my deposit for ages now, since it was apparent that it was of no benefit

Same, held off buying the Kona too to see if the 3 would be released anytime soon.

You mentioned September above, I could wait until then but might end up buying the Kona before then.

ELM327

Musk has said June for RHD, allowing for Tesla Time, I'd expect they will be for sale in September - probably for sale to non deposit holders then too with 6-8 week delivery depending on spec

ted1

ELM327 wrote: »

Musk has said June for RHD, allowing for Tesla Time, I'd expect they will be for sale in September - probably for sale to non deposit holders then too with 6-8 week delivery depending on spec

I’d say June. End of Q2 for orders. Q3 for deliveries with Zero in transit for end of Q3.

They need to move away from quarterly reports in the states.

Shefwedfan

josip wrote: »

Shhh, you'll get Shef started on about them again...

Did I hear someone mention a Skoda.....well wait till I tell you :p:p:p

ELM327 wrote: »

Tell that to the people in switzerland
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-best-selling-car-switzerland/

All joking aside, they do seem to like the Skoda's!!! Bit of dodgy dealing going on, Swiss buy Skoda and they vote for Czech in the Eurovision :-)

Nedved85

For me it'll be late next year

Villain

flo__wer wrote: »

This car is in a class of it's own. There are other BEV's yes, but this one has a range over 300miles and insane power and acceleration. Unlike the Model S and Model X this isn't an ultra exclusive car, it's a car for the people, the VW Bug, or Model T of it's time. This makes it more attractive to me than any ultra-lux brand. Ours has been 100% reliable, with zero issues. I love the minimalist approach, the connected features, the software nature of the car. The personas of 'mad max' distinguish this car from the hum-drum brands and give it a real edge. Interior quality is on par with BMW's MINI brand, and the seats seem to use the exact same vegan leather. The engineering is years ahead of most, including the battery and drive system, though BMW's i3 has a more advanced body shell. Auto pilot, with on-ramp to off-ramp control is exceptional. The 1 pedal operation, possible with regen braking is awesome. The ground clearance is low - but it makes it look so much better. Tesla's supercharging network is great - allowing 400 mph charging on trips, whilst 60AMP charging at home, allows charging 2-3 times per week for just 4-5 hrs on average. With electric at 7c KWh it costs about $3 for 260 miles of range, that's just so cheap. Lastly, not having to wait at the pump gives you valuable time back to use as you please.

Whatever about the love-in for the car the last part about charging is a little misleading imo, the supercharging network is great if you are near one but they are very sparse here at present and if you ever owned an EV you would know the infrastructure is awful and while you might not have to wait at a pump you will likely have to wait at a charger and for a lot longer!

So if you have a home charger with off street parking and don't do over 400kmh in a single day then yes the Model 3 will make sure you don't have to stop at pumps but lets face it, at present that is a small number.

Sabre Man

Villain wrote: »

Whatever about the love-in for the car the last part about charging is a little misleading imo, the supercharging network is great if you are near one but they are very sparse here at present and if you ever owned an EV you would know the infrastructure is awful and while you might not have to wait at a pump you will likely have to wait at a charger and for a lot longer!

So if you have a home charger with off street parking and don't do over 400kmh in a single day then yes the Model 3 will make sure you don't have to stop at pumps but lets face it, at present that is a small number.

You can say the same about all EV competitors. Model 3 has access to supercharging and CSS chargers. No other car has better charger access.

Shefwedfan

Villain wrote: »

So if you have a home charger with off street parking and don't do over 400kmh in a single day then yes the Model 3 will make sure you don't have to stop at pumps but lets face it, at present that is a small number.

I don't agree with the love in for the car either but not sure about the bit above. Are you saying the Tesla Model 3 won't suit most people or it will?


Personally I think you will find a massive percentage of people(maybe 90%) will drive less than 150km per day. You also have a huge percentage of home owners in Ireland who have driveways. The lack of driveways is very new in Ireland.



So if you take the current car owners in Ireland who travel circa 150km per day and have a house with the ability to install a home charger I would say you have at least 70% of the market. All of these could move to a Model 3 in the morning.

Some other factors could decide outside of that, 7 seats etc but I think you get the point I am making. Electric is not that difficult

creedp

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So if you take the current car owners in Ireland who travel circa 150km per day and have a house with the ability to install a home charger I would say you have at least 70% of the market. All of these could move to a Model 3 in the morning.

Some other factors could decide outside of that, 7 seats etc but I think you get the point I am making. Electric is not that difficult

Agree the Model 3 or any of the newer EV's will suit most people most of the time. The issue is when it doesn't and if people will be happy that their €40k purchase wont allow them complete urgent journeys that only happen very infrequently. For instance yesterday I had to complete a just over 600km round trip to visit an elderly relative who has a serious 'turn' and it was touch an go if they would see the day out. So I wanted to visit that relative and return home the same day. My L30 would have been a disaster in those circumstances so I was glad to have my 11 year old ICE at my disposal which completed the journey without having to stop for fuel.

However, its a sign of where EVs are going when the Model 3 could now complete that journey with reasonably quick top up at an FCP.

Villain

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't agree with the love in for the car either but not sure about the bit above. Are you saying the Tesla Model 3 won't suit most people or it will?


Personally I think you will find a massive percentage of people(maybe 90%) will drive less than 150km per day. You also have a huge percentage of home owners in Ireland who have driveways. The lack of driveways is very new in Ireland.



So if you take the current car owners in Ireland who travel circa 150km per day and have a house with the ability to install a home charger I would say you have at least 70% of the market. All of these could move to a Model 3 in the morning.

Some other factors could decide outside of that, 7 seats etc but I think you get the point I am making. Electric is not that difficult

The issue is same for all EVs, the reason I pointed it out was the post was making claims in relation to the Model 3 that as someone who owned an EV I don’t agree with.

What percentage of Car Owners in Cities will have access to install a charger at their home?

unkel

amcalester wrote: »

You mentioned September above, I could wait until then but might end up buying the Kona before then.

I also expect September. But that will likely be only the high margin models: AWD / Long Range / Performance

I don't think we'll see a €43k RHD Tesla on Irish plates until 2020

Dont be at yourself

Judging by Musk's tweets, we can expect the configurator to launch as soon as this month. Likely only the expensive options, but in any case they should be well on the road by September.

jusmeig

creedp wrote: »

Agree the Model 3 or any of the newer EV's will suit most people most of the time. The issue is when it doesn't and if people will be happy that their €40k purchase wont allow them complete urgent journeys that only happen very infrequently. For instance yesterday I had to complete a just over 600km round trip to visit an elderly relative who has a serious 'turn' and it was touch an go if they would see the day out. So I wanted to visit that relative and return home the same day. My L30 would have been a disaster in those circumstances so I was glad to have my 11 year old ICE at my disposal which completed the journey without having to stop for fuel.

However, its a sign of where EVs are going when the Model 3 could now complete that journey with reasonably quick top up at an FCP.

You could accomplish what u did in a M3 no prob. 600km round trip is one supercharger stop on the way home for less than 15 minutes unless u are driving at 130km all the way.

grogi

unkel wrote: »

So my estimate of the price in Ireland is EUR43.7k for the Model 3 standard range plus, on the road, including AutoPilot

I'm making my estimation on French prices: there is €6k incentive there, VAT of 20%.

We have 23% VAT and only €5k incentive. €2k of VRT to be paid for a car of ~€55k RRP (OMSP is calculated before any incentives).

Taking all that into account, we are looking at €47k for Black TM3 SR+ with Autopilot.

amcalester

unkel wrote: »

I also expect September. But that will likely be only the high margin models: AWD / Long Range / Performance

I don't think we'll see a €43k RHD Tesla on Irish plates until 2020

Then it could well be the Kona for me, depends on how much longer the runaround lasts.

I can justify the extra €250 a month to replace the runaround with the €40K Kona and use it for the commute, not sure I can with a €50K+ Model 3.

unkel

grogi wrote: »

I'm making my estimation on French prices: there is €6k incentive there, VAT of 20%.

We have 23% VAT and only €5k incentive. €2k of VRT to be paid for a car of ~€55k RRP (OMSP is calculated before any incentives).

Taking all that into account, we are looking at €47k for Black TM3 SR+ with Autopilot.

That gives a pre tax price in France of (€42.6k + €6k incentive)/(1+20%VAT) = €40.5k

The OTR price in Norway is €38.2. There are no taxes in Norway but also no incentives

This proves that Tesla uses different pre-tax prices in Europe. So we could both be wrong or right with our predictions

unkel

Another one for you grogi - how do you work these figures from Tesla's Irish home page:

They state the Model S is €96,503 cash, of which VRT is €9,773 and VAT is €17,000

Linky

ELM327

grogi wrote: »

I'm making my estimation on French prices: there is €6k incentive there, VAT of 20%.

We have 23% VAT and only €5k incentive. €2k of VRT to be paid for a car of ~€55k RRP (OMSP is calculated before any incentives).

Taking all that into account, we are looking at €47k for Black TM3 SR+ with Autopilot.

Autopilot is now included by default.


I think Unkle's post is correct for two parts, 1 the price and 2 no delivery of base model till 2020.

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

Autopilot is now included by default.

Yes, it is included. That's why I mentioned it, to avoid any confusion.

But it isn't free.

kev22185

ELM327 wrote: »

Autopilot is now included by default.


I think Unkle's post is correct for two parts, 1 the price and 2 no delivery of base model till 2020.

By base model do you mean SR? Not sure about not seeing SR+ before 2020. The premium were available for configurations in Europe start of Feb. The SR+ was available start of April. I'd expect a similar time frame for RHD in Europe. If the configurator goes live in May, I'd expect SR+ to be available for configuration Aug/September with deliveries 6-8 weeks later.

I get the argument for having the higher margin cars to begin with but that was the same argument for LHD in Europe and that didn't last long. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see all options available when the RHD configurator goes live in the coming weeks. Could be wishful thinking as I'll be ordering the SR+ as soon as it becomes available

RedorDead

unkel wrote: »

You and others are just saying not a hope, not a chance, but you provide no arguments

Norway: Kona is 325.9k NOK. Tesla Model 3 std range plus is 367.7k NOK (EUR38.3k), that's 12.8% more
Ireland: Kona is EUR38.1k (ouch!). So Model 3 guess would be EUR43.0k

We do have VRT though of 14% in EVs over EUR35k, and they don't in Norway. So add another 14% of the EUR5k the Model 3 costs extra, so that's EUR0.7k

OK a bit more than I said before, I took Nyland at his 10% (it's near 13%) and I thought Kona was only EUR37k. And the VRT on top

So my estimate of the price in Ireland is EUR43.7k for the Model 3 standard range plus, on the road, including AutoPilot

You mightn't be far off once grants are deducted. Compare Ireland to Portugal - a country of similar size and similar taxation laws. Over there a Long Range Model S retails for €91,730 before incentives, in Ireland that price is €96,503 - €4773 higher than Portugal.

Model 3 sells for €48900 in Portugal, so allowing a similar premium on top before grants i think we will be looking at somewhere in the region of €52-€53K gross and around €43k after grants.

As others have said though, Tesla may well look at Ireland and adopt a profiteering approach given demand for an inferior product (Kona) at an overinflated price. I wouldnt be surprised to see them starting it @ €55K gross as a tester.

jarrieta

RedorDead wrote: »

You mightn't be far off once grants are deducted. Compare Ireland to Portugal - a country of similar size and similar taxation laws. Over there a Long Range Model S retails for €91,730 before incentives, in Ireland that price is €96,503 - €4773 higher than Portugal.

Model 3 sells for €48900 in Portugal, so allowing a similar premium on top before grants i think we will be looking at somewhere in the region of €52-€53K gross and around €43k after grants.

As others have said though, Tesla may well look at Ireland and adopt a profiteering approach given demand for an inferior product (Kona) at an overinflated price. I wouldnt be surprised to see them starting it @ €55K gross as a tester.

I wish I was wrong but I am afraid they will price it according to competition (they had said before they do that and not a price for all countries) and seeing how Hyundai, Nissan and Kia are pricing their cars here I am expecting the worst here (but hoping for the best).

Old diesel

jarrieta wrote: »

RedorDead wrote: »

You mightn't be far off once grants are deducted. Compare Ireland to Portugal - a country of similar size and similar taxation laws. Over there a Long Range Model S retails for €91,730 before incentives, in Ireland that price is €96,503 - €4773 higher than Portugal.

Model 3 sells for €48900 in Portugal, so allowing a similar premium on top before grants i think we will be looking at somewhere in the region of €52-€53K gross and around €43k after grants.

As others have said though, Tesla may well look at Ireland and adopt a profiteering approach given demand for an inferior product (Kona) at an overinflated price. I wouldnt be surprised to see them starting it @ €55K gross as a tester.

I wish I was wrong but I am afraid they will price it according to competition (they had said before they do that and not a price for all countries) and seeing how Hyundai, Nissan and Kia are pricing their cars here I am expecting the worst here (but hoping for the best).

Pricing according to competition is actually promising in my eyes if that's Kia and Hyundai at 40 k for eNiro and Kona.

Bring it on.

Competition is good for the EV driver

Dont be at yourself

Here's an analysis of pricing across Euro markets (FR, DE, ES, IT, NL, BE, AT, LX, PT, FI). There's a pretty consistent €10K bump from SR+ to LR-AWD to Performance.

Standard Range+
Average: €47,120
Min: €42,600 (FR)
Max: €49,200 (FI)

Long Range AWD
Average: €57,610
Min: €53,000 (FR)
Max: €60,000 (FI)

Performance
Average: €67,470
Min: €62,800 (FR)
Max: €70,100 (FI)

Extras -- largely consistent across markets
Full Self Driving: €5380
White paint: €1,600
White interior: €1,050
Delivery: €980

jordan191

Telsa in Sandyford told me today that they will have a LHD model 3 in the store in next month or so, with deliveries for LR & AWD in for 192 registration, with SR+ shortly after that, still no indication of price but said they should be close to other European country prices

Kilboor

jordan191 wrote: »

Telsa in Sandyford told me today that they will have a LHD model 3 in the store in next month or so, with deliveries for LR & AWD in for 192 registration, with SR+ shortly after that, still no indication of price but said they should be close to other European country prices

Are the stores not closing?

Creamy Goodness

Kilboor wrote: »

Are the stores not closing?

Depends what day of the week you ask Elon, :pac:

sk8board

kceire wrote: »

You’ve said this before about the Kona. It is not €49k. It is €39.7k on the road here.

Every time I quote the 49k price for the long range Kona, someone quotes the other shorter range price of 38k.

Am I missing something, or does a cursory glance on Carzone at 2019 Kona EVs not show them all priced at €49k for the longer range model?

That’s the facts I base my quote on - I’m not just picking it out of the sky!

Shefwedfan

sk8board wrote: »

Every time I quote the 49k price for the long range Kona, someone quotes the other shorter range price of 38k.

Am I missing something, or does a cursory glance on Carzone at 2019 Kona EVs not show them all priced at €49k for the longer range model?

That’s the facts I base my quote on - I’m not just picking it out of the sky!

It has been explained a few times, 10k comes off that price. The shorter range Kona is not available in Ireland as far as I know....

If you walk into Hyundai today you can pay 49k if you want but everyone else is paying 38-39k ......