Tesla Model 3

sk8board

cnocbui wrote: »

The masses don't buy cars based on a perception of fashion or how they perceive it will enhance their perceived social standing, they buy on cost and practicality. Anyone with a mortgage buying a €45,000+ car needs their head examined.
Teslas are priced as expensive luxury vehicles, that's their market.

From an Irish perspective you’re absolutely correct, it’s a luxury brand with 22 new sales year to date.
Timing your entry to the EV world is everything at the moment. They are still a car for knowledgeable early adopters, while the mass market hatchback buyer is happy to sit an watch the EV go through a few more iterations. I’m one of them.

unkel

Old diesel wrote: »

It's still a bit early for the non enthusiasts to embrace Tesla as an actual option.

The Tesla Model 3 is now the best selling car in the likes of Norway and the Netherlands. Granted, far more progressive countries than Ireland, but I wouldn't think most buyers are enthusiasts per se.

If you do the sums and it costs the same to own a Tesla Model 3 as it is to own the cheapest Toyota Corolla, which would you pick?

I guess many people are ignorant, as per your previous post...

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

The Tesla Model 3 is now the best selling car in the likes of Norway and the Netherlands. Granted, far more progressive countries than Ireland, but I wouldn't think most buyers are enthusiasts per se.

If you do the sums and it costs the same to own a Tesla Model 3 as it is to own the cheapest Toyota Corolla, which would you pick?

I guess many people are ignorant, as per your previous post...

I am not sure why you are comparing it to a Corolla.The up front cost is going to be over 40k, no matter what TCO numbers you fire up someone will have to stump up 40k+ on a car. That is not a small number for majority of people in Ireland.


You can stick up any numbers on TCO but a) most people wont get a loan for 40k in first place b) unless the PCP/repayment are really cheap they wont be able to afford it


Complain all you want about different cars but paying 25k for a brand new car and then paying a few quid every week for fuel will suit a huge precentage of people compared to signing over 40k+ for a car that in all probability will show up with something wrong with it or hanging off it



Tesla will be priced in the luxury market car place. With BMW/Audi etc because that is the price bracket they are in. If you want to compare to a Toyota then it will be against a Rav4 or a Camry.

rivegauche

oliver29 wrote: »

So you buy one, then someone rearends you and ruins the bumper/lights. Now you have to put the car on the back of a truck and send to Dublin? ... Cause only Tesla can perform repairs ... Even worse in a post brexit NI, you need to send it to Scotland/England??

Don't get me wrong, would love one. But in Ireland life could be difficult unless u live in South Dublin.

The German auto makers might be dirty liars, but at least they have existing service networks dotted around the place.

There are hundreds of pent up orders for Tesla 3 in my company and if it had been available to me that is probably what I'd be driving now instead of a Zoe(didn't like Ioniq, Leaf, eGolf, Smarts for various reasons) in spite of the huge difference in price. We have many hundreds of PHEV VAGs,Mercs, BMWs and Volvos in the various car parks around the campuses and they are obvious conquest customers for Tesla model3/Y. iPace is available but too expensive.
The only reason we can't order Model 3 is because the Fleet Management office will not allow us to order Tesla until there is a service centre in the locality. The nearest one is 100km away. Upper Managers can order Model X or S but the rest of us have to wait until a service centre is established with no word of when that will happen.

irishgrover

oliver29 wrote:

So you buy one, then someone rearends you and ruins the bumper/lights. Now you have to put the car on the back of a truck and send to Dublin? ... Cause only Tesla can perform repairs ... Even worse in a post brexit NI, you need to send it to Scotland/England??

Genuinely not being at all smart here but..... Sure the scenario that you online is plausible and probably an increased risk of ownership .... But in reality, what's the probability of this happening... How often do you crash your car? What's the frequency of your car going away on the back of a truck? Also what's the impact of it going on the truck to Dublin instead of your more local dealer? Maybe a day or two extra for transport time.... But it's not like you will need to travel with it, or visit it whilst there...

so it might be and increased risk, but even it if does materialise the impact should not be so bad....

Shefwedfan

rivegauche wrote: »

There are hundreds of pent up orders for Tesla 3 in my company and if it had been available to me that is probably what I'd be driving now instead of a Zoe(didn't like Ioniq, Leaf, eGolf, Smarts for various reasons) in spite of the huge difference in price. We have many hundreds of PHEV VAGs,Mercs, BMWs and Volvos in the various car parks around the campuses and they are obvious conquest customers for Tesla model3/Y. iPace is available but too expensive.
The only reason we can't order Model 3 is because the Fleet Management office will not allow us to order Tesla until there is a service centre in the locality. The nearest one is 100km away. Upper Managers can order Model X or S but the rest of us have to wait until a service centre is established with no word of when that will happen.

We are approved for the Model 3, the only reason we can't order is because it is not available....are you in Ireland?

rivegauche

no.

sk8board

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not sure why you are comparing it to a Corolla.The up front cost is going to be over 40k, no matter what TCO numbers you fire up someone will have to stump up 40k+ on a car. That is not a small number for majority of people in Ireland.


You can stick up any numbers on TCO but a) most people wont get a loan for 40k in first place b) unless the PCP/repayment are really cheap they wont be able to afford it


Complain all you want about different cars but paying 25k for a brand new car and then paying a few quid every week for fuel will suit a huge precentage of people compared to signing over 40k+ for a car that in all probability will show up with something wrong with it or hanging off it



Tesla will be priced in the luxury market car place. With BMW/Audi etc because that is the price bracket they are in. If you want to compare to a Toyota then it will be against a Rav4 or a Camry.

Pricing elsewhere in Europe suggests theres not a hope in heck the model 3 will be 40k here. It’s starting from mid 50s in eu countries that are cheaper that Ireland to buy a new car, so expect it’ll be 60-65k here in Ireland delivered, with the required autopilot options). It’s competing with 520d mSport buyers. There’s lots of those about too, mind, but people paying €20-25k for a brand new practical family hatchback aren’t changing to electric any time soon.

All that said, I’d struggle to buy (another, in my case) 520d and overlook the model 3 as a viable option.

Their IE pricing will form a LOT of people’s opinions, esp on this forum

Mike9832

sk8board wrote: »

Pricing elsewhere in Europe suggests theres not a hope in heck the model 3 will be 40k here. It’s starting from mid 50s in eu countries that are cheaper that Ireland to buy a new car, so expect it’ll be 60-65k here in Ireland delivered, with the required autopilot options). It’s competing with 520d mSport buyers. There’s lots of those about too, mind, but people paying €20-25k for a brand new practical family hatchback aren’t changing to electric any time soon.

All that said, I’d struggle to buy (another, in my case) 520d and overlook the model 3 as a viable option.

Their IE pricing will form a LOT of people’s opinions, esp on this forum

Yeah Model 3 will never be cheap here, not built in the EU, all those pointless extra's like autopilot etc

Think 50k with autopilot for standrange plus is about right

Dacia or similar will be the €20-25k car for the masses, not even VW will be at that price point for family sized

Supposedly 50kWh/300km/136bhp is coming in 2020 from Dacia

https://insideevs.com/dacia-duster-electric-car-mule-spied/

ted1

FSD will be the game changer. It’s like having your own private driver. Imagine the business trip to cork. Working away on the laptop. An extra 5 hours in your day.

Pesky kids training. Send the car.

Elessar

ted1 wrote: »

FSD will be the game changer. It’s like having your own private driver. Imagine the business trip to cork. Working away on the laptop. An extra 5 hours in your day.

Pesky kids training. Send the car.

Not your kids. Maybe their kids.

The tech will be ready well before regulators are. And you can be sure Ireland will be behind the pack on allowing FSD in law, and at that probably a "bit at a time" approach. Mostly we just wait for other countries to do things, then copy them.

oliver29

irishgrover wrote: »

oliver29 wrote:

So you buy one, then someone rearends you and ruins the bumper/lights. Now you have to put the car on the back of a truck and send to Dublin? ... Cause only Tesla can perform repairs ... Even worse in a post brexit NI, you need to send it to Scotland/England??

Genuinely not being at all smart here but..... Sure the scenario that you online is plausible and probably an increased risk of ownership .... But in reality, what's the probability of this happening... How often do you crash your car? What's the frequency of your car going away on the back of a truck? Also what's the impact of it going on the truck to Dublin instead of your more local dealer? Maybe a day or two extra for transport time.... But it's not like you will need to travel with it, or visit it whilst there...

so it might be and increased risk, but even it if does materialise the impact should not be so bad....

Not saying that its likely to be a common occurence, but it happens. Owners in the US have reported being wirhout their cars for up to 8 weeks.

In a multi car house not a biggie, I've got one so long delays would be a pain.

It's not just body work though, if you need a lock replaced it'll have to go to Dublin. In some parts of the us they have a Tesla van, hopefully that arrives here too.

oliver29

irishgrover wrote: »

oliver29 wrote:

So you buy one, then someone rearends you and ruins the bumper/lights. Now you have to put the car on the back of a truck and send to Dublin? ... Cause only Tesla can perform repairs ... Even worse in a post brexit NI, you need to send it to Scotland/England??

Genuinely not being at all smart here but..... Sure the scenario that you online is plausible and probably an increased risk of ownership .... But in reality, what's the probability of this happening... How often do you crash your car? What's the frequency of your car going away on the back of a truck? Also what's the impact of it going on the truck to Dublin instead of your more local dealer? Maybe a day or two extra for transport time.... But it's not like you will need to travel with it, or visit it whilst there...

so it might be and increased risk, but even it if does materialise the impact should not be so bad....

Not saying that its likely to be a common occurence, but it happens. Owners in the US have reported being wirhout their cars for up to 8 weeks.

In a multi car house not a biggie, I've got one so long delays would be a pain.

It's not just body work though, if you need a lock replaced it'll have to go to Dublin. In some parts of the us they have a Tesla van, hopefully that arrives here too.

Shefwedfan

Tesla is not for the general public, this is an example of Tesla target customers https://insideevs.com/video-tesla-summon-race/

Shefwedfan

sk8board wrote: »

Pricing elsewhere in Europe suggests theres not a hope in heck the model 3 will be 40k here. It’s starting from mid 50s in eu countries that are cheaper that Ireland to buy a new car, so expect it’ll be 60-65k here in Ireland delivered, with the required autopilot options). It’s competing with 520d mSport buyers. There’s lots of those about too, mind, but people paying €20-25k for a brand new practical family hatchback aren’t changing to electric any time soon.

All that said, I’d struggle to buy (another, in my case) 520d and overlook the model 3 as a viable option.

Their IE pricing will form a LOT of people’s opinions, esp on this forum

Oh I know it won’t be cheap, I am just using 40k as an example because that seems to be the newest figure quoted on here, 40k is out of touch for a lot of people, 50k won’t be a hope in hell and in reality if paying that money I would hold on for a BMW/Audi/Volvo

josip

oliver29 wrote: »

Not saying that its likely to be a common occurence, but it happens. Owners in the US have reported being wirhout their cars for up to 8 weeks.

In a multi car house not a biggie, I've got one so long delays would be a pain.

It's not just body work though, if you need a lock replaced it'll have to go to Dublin. In some parts of the us they have a Tesla van, hopefully that arrives here too.

But with that kind of a service model, surely they give you a replacement while your own car is away, especially if it's under warranty?
If there's a flatbed coming for your car, it can easily bring the replacement with it.

Mike9832

ted1 wrote: »

FSD will be the game changer. It’s like having your own private driver. Imagine the business trip to cork. Working away on the laptop. An extra 5 hours in your day.

Pesky kids training. Send the car.

We really over-rate our technological level too much these days

That's a decade or more off imo

Look at that roborace, a car that costs millions and it can't go round a race track without crashing or even quickly

Example I bought a roomba for nearly a grand a while back and even the brand new one's cant hoover the house without getting stuck, hitting something etc

They have all the sensors, a fixed location, lidar, mapping and all that tech and are still rubbish

It won't be Tesla to do self driving first either, google etc are way ahead and will partner up with Autogiants like VW, Toyota etc when it's ready

jusmeig

Mike9832 wrote: »

We really over-rate our technological level too much these days

That's a decade or more off imo/quote]

You would not be saying that if u worked with AI. The rate of advancement is staggering. AI tech is there now for cars to drive around automously, it's now becoming a reglatory issue to implement. When they hit edge cases, they crash...but on the whole far safer than humans, like aviation.

catharsis

jusmeig wrote: »

When they hit edge cases, they crash...but on the whole far safer than humans, like aviation.

... and this is why FULLY-autonomous is still years away while every regulator will keep a human in the loop to account for the edge cases until the edge cases no longer cause them to crash - regardless of whether statistically that is really justifiable or not.... witness the 737 Max for evidence of why, since you picked aviation as an example.

It's also worth noting that politicians are much more afraid of being responsible for the death of Little Benjy who is killed when an AI-Driven car hits him than of being blamed by some report stating that 100 lives would have been saved if autonomous tech had been allowed.

Mike9832

jusmeig wrote: »

You would not be saying that if u worked with AI. The rate of advancement is staggering. AI tech is there now for cars to drive around automously, it's now becoming a reglatory issue to implement. When they hit edge cases, they crash...but on the whole far safer than humans, like aviation.

Aviation?

Have you been watching the news lately lol?

No one is going to step into a plane without a pilot

AI is no where near ready for cars

Have you watched Roborace?

Thing has been a disaster, can't even go around a track at moderate pace without crashing, a closed race track

We will all be long dead before autopilot is taking cars up Conor Pass type roads.

Autopilot will go back to the drawing board in a few years imo, won't be seen till 2040 on etc

Mike9832

catharsis wrote: »

... and this is why FULLY-autonomous is still years away while every regulator will keep a human in the loop to account for the edge cases until the edge cases no longer cause them to crash - regardless of whether statistically that is really justifiable or not.... witness the 737 Max for evidence of why, since you picked aviation as an example.

It's also worth noting that politicians are much more afraid of being responsible for the death of Little Benjy who is killed when an AI-Driven car hits him than of being blamed by some report stating that 100 lives would have been saved if autonomous tech had been allowed.

Exactly

Shefwedfan

jusmeig wrote: »

You would not be saying that if u worked with AI. The rate of advancement is staggering. AI tech is there now for cars to drive around automously, it's now becoming a reglatory issue to implement. When they hit edge cases, they crash...but on the whole far safer than humans, like aviation.

Ahh come on now, AI is making advancements but in reality it is struggling with a huge amount of issues. That's across the board without even looking at autonomous driving....


That's before you even look at the legal issues.

unkel

sk8board wrote: »

Pricing elsewhere in Europe suggests theres not a hope in heck the model 3 will be 40k here. It’s starting from mid 50s in eu countries

Did you not see my post from yesterday? Model 3 is now available in EU countries as a much cheaper Standard range plus (RWD)

In Norway it costs 10% more than Kona. There's no reason it should be different here in Ireland - it will also cost roughly 10% more than Kona when it becomes available in the next few months. Kona is €37k here, so add 10% and you're at about €40k here. Autopilot included and no delivery charges.

unkel

catharsis wrote: »

... and this is why FULLY-autonomous is still years away while every regulator will keep a human in the loop

Senior MIT researcher interviewing Musk in relation to autonomous driving. Very interesting, highly recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI

Musk is convinced that when autonomous is getting to 2-3 times safer than human only, regulators will approve fully autonomous driving. He claims Tesla is making enormous progress (there are now half a million autopilot cars on the road, providing Tesla with huge data) and that this safetly level is not far away. Next year at the latest.

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

Did you not see my post from yesterday? Model 3 is now available in EU countries as a much cheaper Standard range plus (RWD)

In Norway it costs 10% more than Kona. There's no reason it should be different here in Ireland - it will also cost roughly 10% more than Kona when it becomes available in the next few months. Kona is €37k here, so add 10% and you're at about €40k here. Autopilot included and no delivery charges.

We always get screwed

Would love to believe a 300bhp/400km/250kW charging EV from Tesla will be 40k including autopilot here

I am around long enough to know that's not happening

You can quote me on that on reveal

Old diesel

catharsis wrote: »

jusmeig wrote: »

When they hit edge cases, they crash...but on the whole far safer than humans, like aviation.

... and this is why FULLY-autonomous is still years away while every regulator will keep a human in the loop to account for the edge cases until the edge cases no longer cause them to crash - regardless of whether statistically that is really justifiable or not.... witness the 737 Max for evidence of why, since you picked aviation as an example.

It's also worth noting that politicians are much more afraid of being responsible for the death of Little Benjy who is killed when an AI-Driven car hits him than of being blamed by some report stating that 100 lives would have been saved if autonomous tech had been allowed.

The difference between a car on the ground and a plane in the air is that a car could have failsafes built in that get it to pull in SAFELY if it's detecting problem information coming back to it.

Issue on 737 Max is that sensors sent back duff info to the planes safety system.

It's actually a mess up by Boeing but ironically Boeings lessons learnt could actually help the safety of self/autonomous driving as those involved with this tech can now look at what went wrong on 737 Max and make sure those mistakes dont happen

Sabre Man

oliver29 wrote: »

Not saying that its likely to be a common occurence, but it happens. Owners in the US have reported being wirhout their cars for up to 8 weeks.

In a multi car house not a biggie, I've got one so long delays would be a pain.

It's not just body work though, if you need a lock replaced it'll have to go to Dublin. In some parts of the us they have a Tesla van, hopefully that arrives here too.

There is a ranger covering the whole island for stuff that doesn't have to be done at the service center. Tesla also provides loaners.

Mec-a-nic

AidenL wrote: »

You seem to be the only one with a deposit down on the thread.

Once I sorted a place to put a charger (2017) I put in a Model 3 deposit. My primary concerns now are how much I'm gonna get screwed with insurance (normal reaming or really EV reamed) and what colour to pick.

Old diesel wrote: »

Issue on 737 Max is that sensors sent back duff info to the planes safety system.

AND Boeing were trying to expand their profits by making parts of this vital safety subsystem a paid option. I'm glad Tesla advanced cruise control is now included and cheaper because it was a mandatory 'option' for me.

Edit:a word

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

Senior MIT researcher interviewing Musk in relation to autonomous driving. Very interesting, highly recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI

Musk is convinced that when autonomous is getting to 2-3 times safer than human only, regulators will approve fully autonomous driving. He claims Tesla is making enormous progress (there are now half a million autopilot cars on the road, providing Tesla with huge data) and that this safetly level is not far away. Next year at the latest.

Pretty good Unkel

Listening now

Thanks for sharing

catharsis

Mec-a-nic wrote: »

Once I sorted a place to put a charger (2017) I put in a Model 3 deposit. My primary concerns now are how much I'm gonna get screwed with insurance (normal reaming or really EV reamed) and what colour to pick.

Ordered mine on Launch day Aprill 2016 so there's a few deposit-holders on the thread.

Mec-a-nic wrote: »

AND Boeing were trying to expand their profits by making parts of this vital safety subsystem a paid option. I'm glad Tesla advanced cruise control is now included and cheaper because it was a mandatory 'option' for me.

Out of interest, not only are some of the advanced safety systems on the F30 (old/current 3 series) BMW disabled and a paid option even when they are capabilities provided by default in some of the hardware on the car, BMW installed copy protection to stop coders from enabling these features for free - while features such as 'enhanced bluetooth' which are also chargeable can be enabled by anyone with the appropriate coding tools.

specifically any BMW with the 'fancy' front facing camera has all the hardware needed for pedestrian detection and warning - which BMW charge over EUR500 for, and around which they have installed copy protection to ensure it is not enabled without payment.