WWW : Connacht vs Leinster

CMOTDibbler

ClanofLams wrote: »

Both games in bad conditions. One win a piece. One try a piece. For ten minutes the last day Connacht had Caolin Blade (a scrum half who has about 10 appearances) playing at 10 and Shane O'Leary making his first pro 12 appearance against anyone other than Zebre at 10 for another ten minutes. Also missing Ultan Dillane, Jake Heenan (and backup 7 Fox Matamua), Eoghan Masterson, Jack Carty and Craig Ronaldson aswell as other squad players. So it's not like Connacht were fully settled either.

Blade was very competent at 10 imo. That chap continues to impress me. :cool:

freyners

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Blade was very competent at 10 imo. That chap continues to impress me. :cool:

He did very well there but thats because he kept it very simple, made sure to get the ball out quick and the one time Leinster rushed up he didnt panic. Based on the conditions and the situation it was very impressive but its not a situation I hope to ever see repeated

CMOTDibbler

freyners wrote: »

He did very well there but thats because he kept it very simple, made sure to get the ball out quick and the one time Leinster rushed up he didnt panic. Based on the conditions and the situation it was very impressive but its not a situation I hope to ever see repeated

Why not? I was watching the game with a chap who's played with him at club level and apparently it's not the first time he's slotted in at 10.

He didn't look out of place and as you say, didn't panic.

clsmooth

Esto Fidelis wrote: »

Leinster were toothless, Mads just not interested I think now he's heading for the sun. Connacht fully deserved the win, hey used home advantage to the full, the high position of the pitch means the wind is a big factor and they played to that.

On a side note, did anyone here have tickets for the enclosure. Shane Horgan, Frankie Sheehan and the Sky guys blocked our views, see attached. At €88.00 (2) it was not good.

Case for a refund there no?

Esto Fidelis

I tweeted the image to Connacht but I don't think they will refund as there was a lot of people in the same boat.

clsmooth wrote: »

Case for a refund there no?

freyners

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why not? I was watching the game with a chap who's played with him at club level and apparently it's not the first time he's slotted in at 10.

He didn't look out of place and as you say, didn't panic.

Because he didn't offer a lot bar shovelling the ball on. It's what we needed at the time but if we were chasing the game at that stage he didn't look like offering a lot. He played well as a scrumhalf slotting into the ten role in an emergency, not a replacement or viable option at ten at that level in my opinion


However if he has played there before as you say then maybe its just the instructions he was given im faulting and not his ability there. But we still have SOL and McKeon available, I can't see it happening yet anyways

neelia11

ClanofLams wrote: »

Both games in bad conditions. One win a piece. One try a piece. For ten minutes the last day Connacht had Caolin Blade (a scrum half who has about 10 appearances) playing at 10 and Shane O'Leary making his first pro 12 appearance against anyone other than Zebre at 10 for another ten minutes. Also missing Ultan Dillane, Jake Heenan (and backup 7 Fox Matamua), Eoghan Masterson, Jack Carty and Craig Ronaldson aswell as other squad players. So it's not like Connacht were fully settled either.

the conditions were the same for both teams. Unless there was a serious climate shift either side of the offside line? Connacht have had the majority of the squad together 9 months now [pre season up until now] and built up a fair bit of momentum at the start of the season. Leinster had to reintegrate 20 players into a new coaching ticket around halloween. The defence being so good says a lot about the coach [mcquilkin] and also the players ability to implement the system. Attack will improve with more continuity.

I think next season will be a big test for connacht and will be far more telling about how much progress they have made.

Glasgow and Ospreys will be much stronger for starters. Edinburgh are a bit better then previous years and Leinster and Ulster will be stronger for having new coaches this season getting a full pre season with their sides [the one issue is what state players will be in after traipsing around SA for a month].

ClanofLams

neelia11 wrote: »

the conditions were the same for both teams. Unless there was a serious climate shift either side of the offside line? Connacht have had the majority of the squad together 9 months now [pre season up until now] and built up a fair bit of momentum at the start of the season. Leinster had to reintegrate 20 players into a new coaching ticket around halloween. The defence being so good says a lot about the coach [mcquilkin] and also the players ability to implement the system. Attack will improve with more continuity.

I think next season will be a big test for connacht and will be far more telling about how much progress they have made.

Glasgow and Ospreys will be much stronger for starters. Edinburgh are a bit better then previous years and Leinster and Ulster will be stronger for having new coaches this season getting a full pre season with their sides [the one issue is what state players will be in after traipsing around SA for a month].

My point about the conditions was merely that neither game was played in conditions that suit running rugby. Both teams won one game, both scored one try over the two games.

No doubt next season will be a big test for Connacht. This season is quite clearly a reflection of progress however. Other teams have obviously been more affected with international callups, Leinster and Glasgow in particular but that's the drawback to the advantage of having so many quality players. Both Leinster and Glasgow will still be top four which shows the depth of their squads.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Just listened to Second Captains talking about this game with Thornley. Thornely said he was down last week watching Connacht train and he said they train with the same intensity they play their matches with and that nearly everyone steps into a few different positions. Lots of guys practice being first receiver in case it happens in a match situation. They mentioned Blade playing 10 and how he was comfortable there and chalked it up to this method of having them train in different positions. I think it helps them deal with injuries a little too. Lessens the impact a little.

They mentioned too that Connacht should be, an appear to be, perfectly comfortable playing their style of rugby in the bad weather because Galway is apparently the wettest and windiest city in all of the Pro12. This certainly appeared to be the case at the weekend when they pretty much refused to kick it and stuck to their plan.

It's pretty impressive to see and I think should put to bed a few of the arguments for why Ireland can't play like that. There are obviously other reasons why that style isn't going to transfer directly to International rugby but two of the main points I heard thrown around during the WC was NH weather and players not learning these skills from the first time they hold a ball. There's a fair few Kiwi's knocking around Galway but the majority of the Connacht team were not brought up with these ball handling skills.

Just to be clear I'm not jumping on the anti Joe bandwagon or calling for Ireland to have a clear out and completely start again. Just some interesting things to think about. Maybe we should keep Joe and nick Lam to be attack coach

Bazzo

neelia11 wrote: »

the conditions were the same for both teams. Unless there was a serious climate shift either side of the offside line? Connacht have had the majority of the squad together 9 months now [pre season up until now] and built up a fair bit of momentum at the start of the season. Leinster had to reintegrate 20 players into a new coaching ticket around halloween. The defence being so good says a lot about the coach [mcquilkin] and also the players ability to implement the system. Attack will improve with more continuity.

I think next season will be a big test for connacht and will be far more telling about how much progress they have made.

Glasgow and Ospreys will be much stronger for starters. Edinburgh are a bit better then previous years and Leinster and Ulster will be stronger for having new coaches this season getting a full pre season with their sides [the one issue is what state players will be in after traipsing around SA for a month].

You seem pretty hell bent on disparaging Connacht's current position.

The point that ClanofLams and others are making is that poor conditions will suit Leinster, who play a very defensive game, a lot more than Connacht, who play open attacking rugby. If you watch Connacht in games where there is dry weather vs games where it's pissing rain you'll see the difference right away. Poor conditions suit defensively minded teams who can grind out wins.

And that's nothing against Leinster, by the way, defensive rugby is often the more sure fire bet to win some medals, and with a Sexton at 10 their attack will be much stronger.

All the same though, judging Connacht's attack against the tightest defence in the league on 2 nights with gales and rain pouring down is pretty silly. And then turning around and saying they clearly haven't been working on their defence when they JUST had a huge defensive performance against Leinster is also pretty silly.

CatFromHue

Esto Fidelis wrote: »

Leinster were toothless, Mads just not interested I think now he's heading for the sun. Connacht fully deserved the win, hey used home advantage to the full, the high position of the pitch means the wind is a big factor and they played to that.

On a side note, did anyone here have tickets for the enclosure. Shane Horgan, Frankie Sheehan and the Sky guys blocked our views, see attached. At €88.00 (2) it was not good.

Did the tickets say restricted view cos that's a restricted view.

neelia11

Bazzo wrote: »

You seem pretty hell bent on disparaging Connacht's current position.

The point that ClanofLams and others are making is that poor conditions will suit Leinster, who play a very defensive game, a lot more than Connacht, who play open attacking rugby. If you watch Connacht in games where there is dry weather vs games where it's pissing rain you'll see the difference right away. Poor conditions suit defensively minded teams who can grind out wins.

And that's nothing against Leinster, by the way, defensive rugby is often the more sure fire bet to win some medals, and with a Sexton at 10 their attack will be much stronger.

All the same though, judging Connacht's attack against the tightest defence in the league on 2 nights with gales and rain pouring down is pretty silly. And then turning around and saying they clearly haven't been working on their defence when they JUST had a huge defensive performance against Leinster is also pretty silly.

I watched connacht v scarlets in january and connacht scored three rolling maul tries in what looked decent enough conditions. They used a superior scrum to grind out several penalties There is nothing wrong with the above but if you go by what some posters say connacht never seek contact when they actually do, a lot more then some people would admit to.


Connacht have done very well to be where they are and all credit to them but I think next year will be a truer test of the progress connacht have made. Glasgow wont have such a slow start to the season, Ospreys will be much stronger, Leinster, Munster and Ulster should be stronger for a full pre season too and a more settled coaching setup.

ClanofLams

neelia11 wrote: »

I watched connacht v scarlets in january and connacht scored three rolling maul tries in what looked decent enough conditions. They used a superior scrum to grind out several penalties There is nothing wrong with the above but if you go by what some posters say connacht never seek contact when they actually do, a lot more then some people would admit to.

I'm not sure many Connacht supporters are saying that. Certainly generally speaking the outlook is one of an attacking mindset and to throw the ball around but Lam has always said going a long way back that he wants his teams to be adaptable and to be capable of implementing different plans dependent on opposition, conditions etc as he considers that necessary in order to be successful. So Connacht will target the areas that they think can lead to points as they did up front against the Scarlets.

neelia11

ClanofLams wrote: »

I'm not sure many Connacht supporters are saying that. Certainly generally speaking the outlook is one of an attacking mindset and to throw the ball around but Lam has always said going a long way back that he wants his teams to be adaptable and to be capable of implementing different plans dependent on opposition, conditions etc as he considers that necessary in order to be successful. So Connacht will target the areas that they think can lead to points as they did up front against the Scarlets.

Like I said, they arent afraid to do the less glamorous stuff but in comparison to leinster they havent had as much disruption with players being away so much, made much worse by a RWC season with players missing the pre season so it is easier to build a framework for attack when you have access to almost every player all season.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

neelia11 wrote: »

Like I said, they arent afraid to do the less glamorous stuff but in comparison to leinster they havent had as much disruption with players being away so much, made much worse by a RWC season with players missing the pre season so it is easier to build a framework for attack when you have access to almost every player all season.

Perhaps more relevant than the preseaon and WC/6Nations interruptions is the fact that Connacht and Lam in the 3rd year of their relationship. He hasn't pulled this season's success out of thin air.
Ulster have had a dreadful coaching set up for a while before Kiss finally took over full time and Leinster when through the whole MOC saga and then hired a guy who had no experience as a head coach and threw him in at the deep end missing 20-ish players. So you're trying to bed in new coaches, new systems, players are missing for months, then they come back and adapt to the new set ups.

Just to be clear though, I'm not for a second trying to talk down Connacht's season, they are where they deserve to be and while I think the other teams will be in better situations next season I don't see any reason why Connacht can't continue their progress and at the very least be competing on equal footing with the rest of the Pro 12 again.

ClanofLams

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Perhaps more relevant than the preseaon and WC/6Nations interruptions is the fact that Connacht and Lam in the 3rd year of their relationship. He hasn't pulled this season's success out of thin air.

I think this is true. Worth noting that the last season (2011-12) disrupted by the World Cup Leinster lost just three league games and topped the league with ease. Of course Schmidt was well into his reign at Leinster at that point.

awec

Are there any decent highlights to be got anywhere? The official ones are absolutely rubbish, last about 2 minutes and show the try only once and Madigan booting two penalties over the bar. Not a single bit of play or any excitement.

Bazzo

awec wrote: »

Are there any decent highlights to be got anywhere? The official ones are absolutely rubbish, last about 2 minutes and show the try only once and Madigan booting two penalties over the bar. Not a single bit of play or any excitement.

Dunno about extended highlights but the full match is available if that'll do.

swiwi_

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That's the "Super Rugby" way though, isn't it?

Le grand cliché: NH with the set-piece emphasis (especially scrum), kicking and miserly defence; SH with Harlem Globetrotters attack, lip-service to the set piece, and optional defence.

It all came a but unstuck for England at the RWC when it turned out
1) Australia could scrum
2) Australia could defend
3) They could still attack

The Autumn Internationals should give a wee lie of the land.

I agree with other posters: Connacht struck me as playing to their maximum, which was just enough to get over the line at home. I would expect Leinster to improve with their internationals starting and a bona fide flyhalf in place.

irishbucsfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

Le grand cliché: NH with the set-piece emphasis (especially scrum), kicking and miserly defence; SH with Harlem Globetrotters attack, lip-service to the set piece, and optional defence.

It all came a but unstuck for England at the RWC when it turned out
1) Australia could scrum
2) Australia could defend
3) They could still attack

The Autumn Internationals should give a wee lie of the land.

I agree with other posters: Connacht struck me as playing to their maximum, which was just enough to get over the line at home. I would expect Leinster to improve with their internationals starting and a bona fide flyhalf in place.

Australia aren't a Super Rugby team, therefore they don't play the Super Rugby way: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/7278450/Lions-65-Waikato-Chiefs-72-match-report.html

Bazzo

swiwi_ wrote: »

Le grand cliché: NH with the set-piece emphasis (especially scrum), kicking and miserly defence; SH with Harlem Globetrotters attack, lip-service to the set piece, and optional defence.

It all came a but unstuck for England at the RWC when it turned out
1) Australia could scrum
2) Australia could defend
3) They could still attack

The Autumn Internationals should give a wee lie of the land.

I agree with other posters: Connacht struck me as playing to their maximum, which was just enough to get over the line at home. I would expect Leinster to improve with their internationals starting and a bona fide flyhalf in place.

I think people are forgetting that NEITHER side was at full strength here. White came off after a few mins, in the second row Dillane wasn't available, in the back Masterson and Heenan were missing, we had our 6 playing 8 and our 8 playing 7. Carty is also the favoured out half and a lot of Connacht fans make an arguement that with everyone else available Ronaldson should be starting there, both are injured.

Yes, the deputies that filled in were more than capable but I think that speaks more to the work being put in to build a bit of depth in the squad than anything else.

swiwi_

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Australia aren't a Super Rugby team, therefore they don't play the Super Rugby way: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/7278450/Lions-65-Waikato-Chiefs-72-match-report.html

Cue IBF on lollypop rugby in the SH provincial comps.

Fairplay IBF, you were out of the blocks quickly.

swiwi_

Bazzo wrote: »

I think people are forgetting that NEITHER side was at full strength here. White came off after a few mins, in the second row Dillane wasn't available, in the back Masterson and Heenan were missing, we had our 6 playing 8 and our 8 playing 7. Carty is also the favoured out half and a lot of Connacht fans make an arguement that with everyone else available Ronaldson should be starting there, both are injured.

Yes, the deputies that filled in were more than capable but I think that speaks more to the work being put in to build a bit of depth in the squad than anything else.

Fair enough.

But Sexton would add more to Leinster I feel. Also, Cullen took too long to introduce his firepower.

Anyway, Connacht continue to surprise, and I will be personally happy if they do win the Pro 12, gen-u-ine-ly.

irishbucsfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

Cue IBF on lollypop rugby in the SH provincial comps.

Fairplay IBF, you were out of the blocks quickly.

To be fair there are some great tackles put in down there as well, on the rare occasions the guys involved can be bothered.

CMOTDibbler

swiwi_ wrote: »

Fair enough.

But Sexton would add more to Leinster I feel. Also, Cullen took too long to introduce his firepower.

Anyway, Connacht continue to surprise, and I will be personally happy if they do win the Pro 12, gen-u-ine-ly.

Kirchener should have been starting. He was the standout player in the backs and the only one who made clean breaks. I really like the way he's playing at the moment; strikes me that he's trying to nail down his place in the squad.

The two sides were almost perfectly matched. A point in it at the end and a bounce of the ball decided it really. Connacht rightly deserve their top spot and it will take a very good team to knock them off it.

swiwi_

irishbucsfan wrote: »

To be fair there are some great tackles put in down there as well, on the rare occasions the guys involved can be bothered.

Your magnanimity does you credit IBF, written like a true gentleman.

I must admit with the internet, you never know what degree of earnestness to attribute to a post.

I'll grit my teeth, swallow my pride, and admit there is some handy attacking play north of the equator too.

Call it quits?

irishbucsfan

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Kirchener should have been starting. He was the standout player in the backs and the only one who made clean breaks. I really like the way he's playing at the moment; strikes me that he's trying to nail down his place in the squad.

The two sides were almost perfectly matched. A point in it at the end and a bounce of the ball decided it really. Connacht rightly deserve their top spot and it will take a very good team to knock them off it.

Kirchner has been great recently. Definitely starting for me in my Leinster 1st XV. I think we should see him and the Kearney bros when they're back.

Yeah_Right

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Australia aren't a Super Rugby team, therefore they don't play the Super Rugby way: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/7278450/Lions-65-Waikato-Chiefs-72-match-report.html

Come on. A game from 6 years ago.

All this talk about how Connacht are a running, passing team that goes wide all the time and is always running into space is such BS. It's the same as what was said about Leinster when they won back to back Heineken Cups.

It ignores the grunt work that is done to create the space that guys can then run into. You have to earn the right to go wide. Space isn't created by simply throwing the ball around or offloading wildly-nilly.

Connacht are a good side that does the hard work that then allows them to use their attacking talent. Against the weaker sides it makes them look like the Harlem Globetrotters against the better teams, they have shown they can grind out victories as well. They are now in new territory though. They're top dog and it's coming to the business end of the season. Mental strength, experience and squad depth are key if Connacht want their first title. Do they have what it takes?

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Come on. A game from 6 years ago.

It's the best example of the fact that every rugby player from the south of the equator is rubbish except for a massive coincidental increase in ability when playing at international level

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Kirchner has been great recently. Definitely starting for me in my Leinster 1st XV. I think we should see him and the Kearney bros when they're back.

I think he should've started, his boot is ideal for playing into the wind.