Donald Trump (I'm Worried)

Iwasfrozen

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

The thing is, it's not our place to go into these countries and 'sort them out according to our laws'. Similarly, it is not ISIS' place to come to the West and sort us out according to their laws.

Whenever they can grow up and realise that East & West are poles apart (or the vertical lines lol apart), then society can't go on.

We look at them and we see evil.

They look at us and they see evil.

Never the twain shall meet.

What ever happened to the universality of man? Don't all nations have a duty to stop human rights abuse if they can?

Billy86

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Basically, Trump can't even guage his home audience. How is he going to engage with Russia/Saudi/Europe?

Oh no, one thing I will say about Trump is he has done a great job in gauging his home nation as a very stupid and fickle electorate, and that in absolutely no small way is down to his Twitter account. He's an awful sack of sh*t, but I think Trump has really got a grip on something in this election cycle, and the world over politicians will be studying his social media approach for years to come. If nothing else, I have to give him a lot of credit for putting that channel to absolute optimal usage.

It's interesting to think how far that would go though... are 1mn+ follower Twitter/Youtube/Instagram/etc accounts going to play sizeable 'kingmaker' role in politics moving forward (if they don't run themselves)? Because the fact is, social media has changed things to the point where a worryingly massive number of people don't really seem to care what they are being told anymore, but rather just who is telling it to them and how it is being framed.

PewDiePie 2020, I'm getting the campaign logos ready now! :pac:

TheHillOfDoom

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What ever happened to the universality of man? Don't all nations have a duty to stop human rights abuse if they can?

Not when we are not in agreement.

Deco99

Not seeing any mention of the following so throwing out there.

Trump is visibly toning down his views to a more middle ground than the extremes he has used to get republican ticket. Knows he wont have a chance in the presidential at current nonsense.
Clinton is the likely dem nomination. But if sanders did win and it was sanders v trump. Id like to put a few quid on Bloomberg running independent and sweeping up the middle ground.

Bloomberg is GOP but his views are similar to Hilary so wont run if she gets the nom

TheHillOfDoom

Billy86 wrote: »

Oh no, one thing I will say about Trump is he has done a great job in gauging his home nation as a very stupid and fickle electorate, and that in absolutely no small way is down to his Twitter account. He's an awful sack of sh*t, but I think Trump has really got a grip on something in this election cycle, and the world over politicians will be studying his social media approach for years to come. If nothing else, I have to give him a lot of credit for putting that channel to absolute optimal usage.

It's interesting to think how far that would go though... are 1mn+ follower Twitter/Youtube/Instagram/etc accounts going to play sizeable 'kingmaker' role in politics moving forward (if they don't run themselves)? Because the fact is, social media has changed things to the point where a worryingly massive number of people don't really seem to care what they are being told anymore, but rather just who is telling it to them and how it is being framed.

PewDiePie 2020, I'm getting the campaign logos ready now! :pac:

I think he is appealing to people who won't vote. The nay-sayers. Vocal on social media, unlikely to actually vote. And even if they do vote, he'll drop them quicker than a hot spud.

Billy86

Dempsey wrote: »

Have you never changed you mind on anything?

Regardless of what you think of Trump, most people have but yet politicians are expected to live by their first stance. Hypocritical at least

Abortion. Drug legalisation. Gun rights. Universal health care. Those are massive things that people tend to not do 180s on very often for any.. never mind all of them. Funny though that Donald did on all of them, and they all happened to be Republican 'hot spot' topics, and he moved to supporting the typical Republican voters stance on every one of them.

What a jolly coincidence really, good thing he's not playing up to demographics!!

Billy86

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

I think he is appealing to people who won't vote. The nay-sayers. Vocal on social media, unlikely to actually vote. And even if they do vote, he'll drop them quicker than a hot spud.

You wouldn't have been alone in thinking that, but to be fair the primary results seem to be suggesting otherwise.

TheHillOfDoom

Billy86 wrote: »

You wouldn't have been alone in thinking that, but to be fair the primary results seem to be suggesting otherwise.

The rock they perish on.

I only hope Sanders gets nominated. A true Statesman.

TheHillOfDoom

Billy86 wrote: »

You wouldn't have been alone in thinking that, but to be fair the primary results seem to be suggesting otherwise.

The other thing is, it's like voting for the X-factor. You used up all the gas in your tank going out to vote lol... this one time. Now your favourite is in, your work is done.

TheHillOfDoom

In any case, I wouldn't rule Sanders out just yet. And GOD HELP AMERICA.

Dempsey

Billy86 wrote: »

Abortion. Drug legalisation. Gun rights. Universal health care. Those are massive things that people tend to not do 180s on very often for any.. never mind all of them. Funny though that Donald did on all of them, and they all happened to be Republican 'hot spot' topics, and he moved to supporting the typical Republican voters stance on every one of them.

What a jolly coincidence really, good thing he's not playing up to demographics!!

Whats the statistics on that?

People dont have to do 180's, just change their opinion which most do as they grow up and gain more life experience. My opinions now vs what I thought 10-20 years ago is different, broadly the same but its markedly different all the same.

You didnt answer my questions either, much like a politician really!

TheHillOfDoom

Dempsey - he has changed his opinion on almost everything! As is well documented by media coverage of him shooting his mouth off.

Dempsey

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Dempsey - he has changed his opinion on almost everything! As is well documented by media coverage of him shooting his mouth off.

Have I said he didnt?

Ice Maiden

Trump pretends to be "down with" the poor, despite calling them losers when he was not running for president. Sincere he is not. Yeah he does "tell it like it is" by yelling insults about different groups but I cannot see what purpose or benefit there is to that.

TheHillOfDoom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpKiP_gmDS8

Billy86

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

The other thing is, it's like voting for the X-factor. You used up all the gas in your tank going out to vote lol... this one time. Now your favourite is in, your work is done.

Doubt that would be the case here, but I would love to see Bernie pull no punches like him the way he did with Hillary the other night. I think there are enough sane Americans for Trump to be borderline unelectable regardless of opposition anyway, but Sanders strikes me as someone who would make a show of the guy if needs be and who would be every bit as vocal and motivational as Trump is.

Trump v. Sanders could actually be a very, very big, and very important election, I'm thinking JFK/Nixon levels. Not sure it'll happen, but it could make for some incredibly entertaining debates and would give a great idea on which direction the country actually wants to go in, if nothing else.

Billy86

Dempsey wrote: »

Whats the statistics on that?

People dont have to do 180's, just change their opinion which most do as they grow up and gain more life experience. My opinions now vs what I thought 10-20 years ago is different, broadly the same but its markedly different all the same.

You didnt answer my questions either, much like a politician really!

Find me some people who were pro-choice, all for background checks and banning the more dangerous guns, wanted universal health care and the legalisation of drugs... all while in their 40s or 50s, who then did a complete 180 on all of them in their 60s... shortly before running for office representing a party who's strongest tenants include all of these things.

You're either incredibly gullible or lying to yourself.

And don't try to play the "like a politician" card when you were the one saying Trump isn't playing up to his demographics by saying what they want to hear, and that he isn't a "media trained circus monkey"... despite the last 30 years of his life being a constant battle to get and keep himself in the media.

_Tombstone_

Doesn't matter which of them get in as they have no real power/control.

Billy86

Ice Maiden wrote: »

Trump pretends to be "down with" the poor, despite calling them losers when he was not running for president. Sincere he is not. Yeah he does "tell it like it is" by yelling insults about different groups but I cannot see what purpose or benefit there is to that.

You left out mocking the disabled at speeches/conventions.

Dempsey

Billy86 wrote: »

Find me some people who were pro-choice, all for background checks and banning the more dangerous guns, wanted universal health care and the legalisation of drugs... all while in their 40s or 50s, who then did a complete 180 on all of them in their 60s... shortly before running for office representing a party who's strongest tenants include all of these things.

You're either incredibly gullible or lying to yourself.

And don't try to play the "like a politician" card when you were the one saying Trump isn't playing up to his demographics by saying what they want to hear, and that he isn't a "media trained circus monkey"... despite the last 30 years of his life being a constant battle to get and keep himself in the media.

You are obviously ignoring my post in large parts and pulling a strawman

TheHillOfDoom

Honestly, to me, he seems like the schoolyard bully who is easily led. The cheers make him bully some more. So he gets a few more dollars. Still a megalomaniac.

Billy86

Dempsey wrote: »

You are obviously ignoring my post in large parts and pulling a strawman

Nope.

I am pointing out that you accuse other politicians of being media trained and playing to voter demographics, but for some reason seem to consider Trump's 30+ years of constant media training and miraculous changes on some very core personal values to now perfectly reflect the Republican voter demographics as being completely different.

Here, I'll get you the quote...

Dempsey wrote: »

For all his faults, at least he speaks his mind unlike the other media trained circus monkeys who are playing to demographics in alot of their speeches.

Not sure how you consider refuting that to be a straw man.

meepins

Billy86 wrote: »

You mean like when he changed his opinion from pro-legalisation to anti-legalistion on drugs?

Or when he went from calling himself "pro choice" on abortion, to now being "pro life" (barring rape, incest, or the mothers life being in risk... depending on where in the pregnancy they are).

Or maybe when he went from being an advocate of background checks for guns, and banning the likes of assault rifles, to now saying "the Second Amendment is right, not a privilege,” and that he “do[es] not support expanding background checks.”

Could it have been how he went from being all for universal health care, to rallying as loudly as possible against it nowadays?

And let's not forget, he's been very, very pally with the Clintons for a hell of a long time and has donated to several of their political campaigns.

You said he is not like the "other media trained circus monkeys who are playing to demographics in alot of their speeches"... but his actions and words say completely otherwise.





All this "at least he tells it like is it/speaks his mind/etc" is completely wrong, I don't recall ever seeing someone having such a low percentage of truth/semi truth (7%) compared to lies/mostly lies (78%) on Politifact ever before. He's taking dishonesty, flip flops and pandering to a whole new level.

Those are all minor issues compared to the real issue which is immigration. None of the above will matter in a short timeframe if that isn't resolved.
I'm pretty confident he is being genuine about trying to tackle the establishment flooding third worlders in and destroying the demographics of the country.
It would be some ruse if he turns around with a 'gotcha! - I was controlled opposition all along'.

TheHillOfDoom

meepins wrote: »

Those are all minor issues compared to the real issue which is immigration. None of the above will matter in a short timeframe if that isn't resolved.
I'm pretty confident he is being genuine about trying to tackle the establishment flooding third worlders in and destroying the demographics of the country.
It would be some ruse if he turns around with a 'gotcha! - I was controlled opposition all along'.

His businesses thrive on cheap labour. That's what has made him rich.

Billy86

meepins wrote: »

Those are all minor issues compared to the real issue which is immigration. None of the above will matter in a short timeframe if that isn't resolved.
I'm pretty confident he is being genuine about trying to tackle the establishment flooding third worlders in and destroying the demographics of the country.
It would be some ruse if he turns around with a 'gotcha! - I was controlled opposition all along'.

His 'wall' policy isn't feasible for a start, and shows the signs of the same reason he went bankrupt. Four times over. To the tune of more than his own value.

You know among those visas that he mentioned as being abused by workers, was the J1? Not to mention that dropkicking every illegal out of the USA in one swoop would be an economic disaster for them?

Mind you, the immigration flip flop is already in motion. Sure just a week ago he said “I’m changing it, and I’m softening the position because we have to have talented people in this country.”

ebbsy

I have a few bob on him and anybody whose brain isn't located in their arse should get down to the bookies and ride it until the wheels come off.

TheHillOfDoom

ebbsy wrote: »

I have a few bob on him and anybody whose brain isn't located in their arse should get down to the bookies and ride it until the wheels come off.

You assuming all Americans are idiots?

take everything

Dempsey wrote: »

You are making zero sense and I never called him honest.

He does anything but speak his mind.
He speaks whatever is likely to get him elected by rednecks.

As others have said he stands for everything and nothing and has changed his stances on things as it suits.

meepins

Billy86 wrote: »

Mind you, the immigration flip flop is already in motion. Sure just a week ago he said “I’m changing it, and I’m softening the position because we have to have talented people in this country.”

I think he just wings it alot of the time. This was on the issue of people going to the US and getting educated in a university and then leaving.
Ideally what you would want him to be saying there is something like we should be giving preference to our own people for these spots in university.

meepins

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

You assuming all Americans are idiots?

He's assuming all Americans aren't radical left maniacs.