Official Conor McGregor thread (part 2). **Read warning in 1st post**

JustShon

CSF wrote: »

That would make sport really boring if every fight had to be had twice before it becomes in some way conclusive. What's the excitement in a fight if we know we're gonna have to have it again anyway? Rematches should be dictated by public demand, not just because someone lost and feel they could do better.

OK, I accept that to an extent.

In most sports, as a long as a person or team remains active they're pretty much guaranteed another shot at the person or team who beat them again though.

I'm not saying everyone should get the rematch how and when they demand it but at some point down the line.

XsApollo

CSF wrote: »

Hold on a sec, let me get this straight, so the fight where one party landed absolutely no offence before being unceremoniously KOed at a weight class he'd been fighting at his all his life in a fight he'd been preparing for with a full camp feels unresolved.

But the one where the party would have been actually ahead of the scorecards before a great punch effectively ended the fight does not. How does this make sense? Seems like another of these 'twist the argument in any way that does not reflect well on McGregor' type things.

If I had to pick out of those two fights which one felt more unresolved than the other, it would be the Aldo fight yes.


No I don't hate McGregor I love watching his fights.

CSF

JustShon wrote: »

OK, I accept that to an extent.

In most sports, as a long as a person or team remains active they're pretty much guaranteed another shot at the person or team who beat them again though.

I'm not saying everyone should get the rematch how and when they demand it but at some point down the line.

I know but unfortunately MMA fighters can't fight every week so have to pick their fights more carefully unlike a sport where you play everyone like football.

I think fights should be dictated by public demand or by earning your title shot by becoming number 1 contender, which coincidentally Aldo has the chance to do at UFC 200, if he loses to Edgar he is in Chad Mendes territory in terms of a claim towards a shot for the belt.

CSF

XsApollo wrote: »

If I had to pick out of those two fights which one felt more unresolved than the other, it would be the Aldo fight yes.


No I don't hate McGregor I love watching his fights.

You haven't actually provided any points refuting the point I made. How can the fight where someone got no offence in be more unresolved than the fight where someone was actually winning? Is a good punch only a lucky punch if it happens in the first 13 seconds? Both McGregor and Diaz caught their opponents with great punches that won them the fight.

JustShon

CSF wrote: »

You haven't actually provided any points refuting the point I made. How can the fight where someone got no offence in be more unresolved than the fight where someone was actually winning? Is a good punch only a lucky punch if it happens in the first 13 seconds? Both McGregor and Diaz caught their opponents with great punches that won them the fight.

To me, the McGregor v Aldo fight is unresolved because we didn't really get to see much of it.

We haven't really seen that fight, we've seen how that fight ends. Personally I want to see them go a couple of rounds. See how they respond to the full range of each others' techniques.

I'd never be so condescending as to call any shot "lucky" as that discredits the one who landed the punch and makes excuses for the one who got punched but I'd be highly surprised if McGregor could replicated the 13 second knockout.

lougal88

CSF wrote: »

lougal88 wrote: »

Guess which one got their immediate rematch though...

You are comparing the 2 like they are the same.

Because the public want to pay to see Conor. The public dictate the fights they'll pay to see. If the public want to pay see Conor and he wants his fight to be a rematch then that's what it's going to be. OSP can't get his rematch because nobody cares.

Do the public want Aldo to get a rematch? Maybe, but my impression has been that they want Edgar to get a shot more.

I agree absolutely regarding Edgar. I'm a huge fan of Frankie and I am hoping he beats Aldo. That will either leave him with a long overdue shot at Conor or as the undisputed champ.
Regarding rematches, I think recent events dictate that its all down to money and PPV buys rather than "what the public want". Sure you can compare the 2, most PPVs mean more people want to see it right. But I think that more casual fans tune in to see guys like Conor. Which is fine, he is a star. But the purist in me wants to see the best fights, and see guys defend belts. Otherwise, why even bother with belts.
Long story short, a fight between Conor and an unknown would still sell more than a fantastic fight between 2 of the top guys.
So comparing rematches you have to take who is involved into consideration.
In most cases you may throw out the rulebook when Conor is involved.

CSF

Personally I think PPV buys are a pretty good measure of what the people want to watch.

srm23

if edgar or also is injured does conor replace them?

CSF

JustShon wrote: »

To me, the McGregor v Aldo fight is unresolved because we didn't really get to see much of it.

We haven't really seen that fight, we've seen how that fight ends. Personally I want to see them go a couple of rounds. See how they respond to the full range of each others' techniques.

I'd never be so condescending as to call any shot "lucky" as that discredits the one who landed the punch and makes excuses for the one who got punched but I'd be highly surprised if McGregor could replicated the 13 second knockout.

We all want epic back and forth 5 rounders, but in the end we have to accept also that fights end the times they end for a reason. We've seen as much of that fight as Aldo was capable to putting in. He was knocked out cold and therefore incapable of putting more into it. That was literally the amount he was capable of contributing to the fight.

Arguments of what might have happened if Aldo hadn't been knocked out don't sit well with me. It's almost like what would teams be able to contribute if Barca hadn't scored all those goals.

JustShon

CSF wrote: »

We all want epic back and forth 5 rounders, but in the end we have to accept also that fights end the times they end for a reason. We've seen as much of that fight as Aldo was capable to putting in. He was knocked out cold and therefore incapable of putting more into it. That was literally the amount he was capable of contributing to the fight.

Arguments of what might have happened if Aldo hadn't been knocked out don't sit well with me. It's almost like what would teams be able to contribute if Barca hadn't scored all those goals.

Sure, and I do accept the fight as it is. Again, I make no excuses for Aldo's loss and detract nothing from Conor's epic win on the night.

None of that stops me from wanting to see the rematch.

RoryMac

srm23 wrote: »

if edgar or also is injured does conor replace them?

It's unlikely I'd say especially once McGregor's next fight is officially confirmed.

XsApollo

CSF wrote: »

You haven't actually provided any points refuting the point I made. How can the fight where someone got no offence in be more unresolved than the fight where someone was actually winning? Is a good punch only a lucky punch if it happens in the first 13 seconds? Both McGregor and Diaz caught their opponents with great punches that won them the fight.

McGregor had a pretty good showing of what he was capable of in the Diaz fight,
It Was a savage fight brilliant to watch.


But I would like to see what Aldo was capable of if he didnt get knocked out with the first punch thrown.
He gave no account of himself in there.
I wanna see what would happen if he didn't get knocked out straight away,
I'm not saying McGregor wouldn't knock him out after 3 mins or 10 min,
I just wanna see it.


That's why I wanna see Aldo v McGregor 2 and I wanna see McGregor win and that's why it feels more unresolved than the Diaz fight to me.

.

CSF

JustShon wrote: »

Sure, and I do accept the fight as it is. Again, I make no excuses for Aldo's loss and detract nothing from Conor's epic win on the night.

None of that stops me from wanting to see the rematch.

All Aldo has to do is get past Edgar and it's his. Which to me is exactly how it should be.

CSF

XsApollo wrote: »

McGregor had a pretty good showing of what he was capable of in the Diaz fight,
It Was a savage fight brilliant to watch.


But I would like to see what Aldo was capable of if he didnt get knocked out with the first punch thrown.
He gave no account of himself in there.
I wanna see what would happen if he didn't get knocked out straight away,
I'm not saying McGregor wouldn't knock him out after 3 mins or 10 min,
I just wanna see it.


That's why I wanna see Aldo v McGregor 2 and I wanna see McGregor win and that's why it feels more unresolved than the Diaz fight to me.

.

Aldo contributed everything he was capable of, unfortunately he was not capable of contributing much because he was knocked out cold. Aldo got beaten like one of the Tyson fighters from the 90s. You can't come out of that with any credit or what ifs. The first punch Conor threw at Aldo ended the fight.

lougal88

CSF wrote: »

JustShon wrote: »

To me, the McGregor v Aldo fight is unresolved because we didn't really get to see much of it.

We haven't really seen that fight, we've seen how that fight ends. Personally I want to see them go a couple of rounds. See how they respond to the full range of each others' techniques.

I'd never be so condescending as to call any shot "lucky" as that discredits the one who landed the punch and makes excuses for the one who got punched but I'd be highly surprised if McGregor could replicated the 13 second knockout.

We all want epic back and forth 5 rounders, but in the end we have to accept also that fights end the times they end for a reason. We've seen as much of that fight as Aldo was capable to putting in. He was knocked out cold and therefore incapable of putting more into it. That was literally the amount he was capable of contributing to the fight.

Arguments of what might have happened if Aldo hadn't been knocked out don't sit well with me. It's almost like what would teams be able to contribute if Barca hadn't scored all those goals.

I honestly think you are being sarcastic.
This is a ridiculous argument. Aldo showed all he could because he was KO'ed early?
Just because it doesn't sit well with you doesn't make it a fact.

Aldo got KO'ed with a perfectly placed punch. That's a fact, it's in the books.
But to say that's all he's capable of, and would be capable of again in a possible rematch is incredibly short-sighted.

As far as the Barca analogy goes, it doesn't stack up.
If it was a golden goal match and a team scored after 13 seconds, would you say the beaten team was never capable of winning that game?

CSF

I said very clearly that Aldo was capable of more on another night. I don't think fights should happen in the first place if you couldn't make a claim for both fighters winning. On the night he wasn't capable of contributing more because he was knocked out, if the fight continued it would have just been more of Aldo being beaten on the floor. On the night he couldn't have contributed more.

Conversations of what would have happened on another night defeat the purpose of having the fight in the first place. That both fighters are capable of beating each other on another night should be a given.

Deadst4r

Take a look at @MaciejKawulski's Tweet: https://twitter.com/MaciejKawulski/status/725648101902417920?s=09

Is this for real? Why even bother offering when you know he would be fined millions by the UFC.

I guess it's good promotion for your organisation because you know he won't accept anyway.

XsApollo

CSF wrote: »

Aldo contributed everything he was capable of, unfortunately he was not capable of contributing much because he was knocked out cold. Aldo got beaten like one of the Tyson fighters from the 90s. You can't come out of that with any credit or what ifs. The first punch Conor threw at Aldo ended the fight.

If you think that all Aldo is capable of , is walking in there and getting knocked out then that's a crock of ****.

I think McGregor showed everything he was capable of in the Diaz fight ,bar some tactical changes to how he fought And I really can't see him turning it around in fight number 2.

I think there is more of a chance of a different result in Aldo 2 than there is in Diaz 2 so I want to see Aldo 2.
Anyway that's my opinion.
I hope Aldo beats Edgar and I get to see it.
I'm more excited for that than Diaz 2.

Cheers

lougal88

CSF wrote: »

I said very clearly that Aldo was capable of more on another night. I don't think fights should happen in the first place if you couldn't make a claim for both fighters winning. On the night he wasn't capable of contributing more because he was knocked out, if the fight continued it would have just been more of Aldo being beaten on the floor. On the night he couldn't have contributed more.

Conversations of what would have happened on another night defeat the purpose of having the fight in the first place. That both fighters are capable of beating each other on another night should be a given.

Ok from now on nobody can talk about what may have happened in a fight if a minor adjustment were to be made.
Unless of course the losing fighter was Conor.

CSF

lougal88 wrote: »

Ok from now on nobody can talk about what may have happened in a fight if a minor adjustment were to be made.
Unless of course the losing fighter was Conor.

I don't think Conor gets any claims about what might have happened on another night either. It's pie in the sky and can be used for anyone. The best you can make for Conor is that he did well up until that point but I don't feel he was capable of more on that night either after he showboated and gassed.

I think the best case for a rematch is when someone contributes a lot to a match and loses. Not even sure Conor reaches that but his popularity means he gets it. Aldo definitely does not reach that. He contributed nothing to the match and I don't think it does much for fights if we get rematches en masse just because someone hypothetically could do it on another night. Takes away the excitement.

lougal88

CSF wrote: »

lougal88 wrote: »

Ok from now on nobody can talk about what may have happened in a fight if a minor adjustment were to be made.
Unless of course the losing fighter was Conor.

I don't think Conor gets any claims about what might have happened on another night either. It's pie in the sky and can be used for anyone. The best you can make for Conor is that he did well up until that point but I don't feel he was capable of more on that night either after he showboated and gassed.

I think the best case for a rematch is when someone contributes a lot to a match and loses. Not even sure Conor reaches that but his popularity means he gets it. Aldo definitely does not reach that. He contributed nothing to the match and I don't think it does much for fights if we get rematches en masse just because someone hypothetically could do it on another night. Takes away the excitement.

You need to base it on more than just one punch though. I wasn't actually one of the people campaigning for an Aldo rematch, I wanted Edgar to fight Conor.

But the campaign was based on Aldo being the 145 king for so many years. He basically built the division. Yes Conor has taken it to a new level. But IMO an Aldo rematch against Conor would have made more sense than a money-grabbing rematch with Diaz.

Just saying well sure he got KOed after 13 seconds so screw him, he was never in that fight is harsh. And getting frustrated with people for talking about what may have happened if an adjustment was made is also pretty silly.

The Diaz v McGregor fight has been talked about and scrutinized meticulously by many people on this forum. You annoyed about that too?

CSF

I'm not annoyed by Aldo getting a rematch, just the argument that he should get one because the previous fight was inconclusive. If he beats Edgar he deserves one.

Saipanne

Assuming McGregor can ever make the cut again.

Texas Jack

I wouldn't be the most knowledgeable MMA fan but I'm beginning to think this McGregor saga was a contrived way of getting out of this fight- everyone (apart from Diaz) came to the conclusion this hastily arranged rematch was a mistake, a second loss in a few short months would have had huge consequences ....and what if he won? the calls would have been for a 3rd fight, that's over a year of time invested in a non title fight .......nobody really loses face this way

I'd be interested to hear you guys thoughts on this?

Saipanne

Texas Jack wrote: »

I wouldn't be the most knowledgeable MMA fan but I'm beginning to think this McGregor saga was a contrived way of getting out of this fight- everyone (apart from Diaz) came to the conclusion this hastily arranged rematch was a mistake, a second loss in a few short months would have had huge consequences ....and what if he won? the calls would have been for a 3rd fight, that's over a year of time invested in a non title fight .......nobody really loses face this way

I'd be interested to hear you guys thoughts on this?

I'd be very surprised if the fight did not go ahead. In terms of numbers, it could be the biggest fight ever.,

everlast75

I think, for what its worth, McGregor was out of order in the last tweet, and hoped that it would put the pressure on White to include him. It didn't work and he has egg on his face and a possible apology due to the fans. He is a decent sort so I expect him to do that much.

Maybe White felt that there was enough on 200. Certainly it won't be record breaking, but he felt sticking McGregor on 201 would make that a bigger event that it would normally be (a probable anti-climax) and ensure the money coming in.

StringerBell

CSF wrote: »

You haven't actually provided any points refuting the point I made. How can the fight where someone got no offence in be more unresolved than the fight where someone was actually winning? Is a good punch only a lucky punch if it happens in the first 13 seconds? Both McGregor and Diaz caught their opponents with great punches that won them the fight.

Leaving aside that I reject out of hand a lot of your premise.

A fight that was over after 13 seconds, before it really began in all honesty due to one fighter KO'ing the other (brilliantly) instantly would leave a lot more questions then a fight where one fighter gave his all, threw everything at his opponent who took it, came back at him and got the stoppage.

Do you really disagree with that?

CSF

StringerBell wrote: »

Leaving aside that I reject out of hand a lot of your premise.

A fight that was over after 13 seconds, before it really began in all honesty due to one fighter KO'ing the other (brilliantly) instantly would leave a lot more questions then a fight where one fighter gave his all, threw everything at his opponent who took it, came back at him and got the stoppage.

Do you really disagree with that?

Yes where the person who got stopped was winning the fight at the time I'd disagree with it. Where one is being dominated and then stopped I wouldn't disagree with it.

StringerBell

CSF wrote: »

Yes where the person who got stopped was winning the fight at the time I'd disagree with it. Where one is being dominated and then stopped I wouldn't disagree with it.

But it wasn't an injury/cut anything like that which led to the fight being stopped while one was ahead on the scorecards, it was comprehensive, one guy threw everything he had, the other took it and finished him. In the second round too not like a late stoppage or anything. Fair, square and comprehensive.

I don't see how that leaves any more questions then the other scenario.

I have no issue with Aldo having to go through Edgar to get a rematch either for the record, I am not a fan of these instant rematches at all but I do think there is more to learn from another Aldo/McGregor fight then a Diaz/McGregor fight right now.

Edit: Winning the fight is being used a little incorrectly too imo, he would have been ahead on the scorecards after the first round, but he was clearly out of ideas and Nate was coming on stronger and stronger, it wasn't some fluke punch that KO'd Conor, he hit him, hit him, and hit him another few times before Conor shot out of desperation and got finished from the ground.

CSF

StringerBell wrote: »

But it wasn't an injury/cut anything like that which led to the fight being stopped while one was ahead on the scorecards, it was comprehensive, one guy threw everything he had, the other took it and finished him. In the second round too not like a late stoppage or anything. Fair, square and comprehensive.

I don't see how that leaves any more questions then the other scenario.

I have no issue with Aldo having to go through Edgar to get a rematch either for the record, I am not a fan of these instant rematches at all but I do think there is more to learn from another Aldo/McGregor fight then a Diaz/McGregor fight right now.

I don't think it's fair to say Conor McGregor threw everything he had. He was winning the fight and was then rocked by a great punch and it went swiftly downhill from there. Aldo on the other hand contributed zilch. One punch. Down.