Laws on no backbox?

Daaryl

Can somebody help me out here, My E36 got seized for having no backbox on it, There was a complete exhaust system on it, But just a small bit past the rear wheels to the rear bumper was straight piped, The exhuast still have a cat and a silencer in it so it wasn't loud at bar it idling and small bit loud in 1st and 2nd and it was grand then, Is it legal to have it like that with the cat and silencer in it? Or do i need the backbox too? The car is booked in for the test for the 3rd of march, I had another e36 with the exact same exhaust straight piped from just behind the rear wheels to the rear bumper and nothing got said in the test centre just the fact it was 104dbs, So could anybody shed some light on the legal side of having a backbox or needing one if a cat and the silencer is still in it?

biko

Moved from Motors to Legal Discussion. Feel free to bounce back.

bear1

So they outright seized the car? What did they stop you for?
The only thing that springs to mind is the possibility that it's illegal to drive with a defective exhaust.

Little CuChulainn

Was your NCT out of date?

Daaryl

bear1 wrote: »

So they outright seized the car? What did they stop you for?
The only thing that springs to mind is the possibility that it's illegal to drive with a defective exhaust.

Basically i was at a car cruise, heard about it off one of my friends so popped out for a look, Parked up next to me friend, Then just drove around for a look and the gaurd started shouting at me and telling me to stop, He then gave out about the car rubbing when it wasn't, Started giving out about the stickers on the side back windows, etc, He seized my car and a mk5 golf for a yellow reg out of about 40-50 cars there

Daaryl

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Was your NCT out of date?

It's up the 3rd of march, Just out of tax since january

Little CuChulainn

Your car can be seized for examination if they believe it is dangerous or defective. Sounds like what was done to you. It'll be examined by a trained Garda PSV inspector and returned to you.

As to the exhaust, I think the current regulation is

65. The exhaust pipe on a vehicle shall be so fitted or shielded that no inflammable material can fall or be thrown upon it from any other part of the vehicle and that it is not likely to cause a fire through proximity to any inflammable material on the vehicle, and its outlet shall be placed on the right side of the vehicle and far enough to the rear to prevent, as far as practicable, fumes from entering the vehicle.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/si/190/made/en/print#zzsi190y1963a65

Gatling

This the 2nd car you had siezed this year

bear1

Daaryl wrote: »

Basically i was at a car cruise, heard about it off one of my friends so popped out for a look, Parked up next to me friend, Then just drove around for a look and the gaurd started shouting at me and telling me to stop, He then gave out about the car rubbing when it wasn't, Started giving out about the stickers on the side back windows, etc, He seized my car and a mk5 golf for a yellow reg out of about 40-50 cars there

So your car was seized for having a uk style reg?
If there were 40/50 cars there then there must have been something that caught their attention.

bear1

I mean if you sum it up its a bit more than a missing back box.

1) incorrect number plates
2) no tax
3) louder than normal
4) lowered heavily I'm guessing?
5) stickers on the windows which could be obstructive?
6) no back box

I mean when you hear it like that it paints a different type of picture.

bear1

bear1 wrote: »

So your car was seized for having a uk style reg?
If there were 40/50 cars there then there must have been something that caught their attention.

His for the exhaust, golf for reg is how I read it.

NinjaTruncs

I read it that the yellow reg is the reason the other car was seized, not the op's.

colm_mcm

Wow, you're like a Garda magnet!

bear1

I've no idea then, I thought both cars were lifted for having the yellow plates.
On top of the other items.

ohnonotgmail

bear1 wrote: »

I've no idea then, I thought both cars were lifted for having the yellow plates.
On top of the other items.

the OPs car doesnt have yellow plates from what i can tell. Their other issues are enough for guards to take action.

SuperS54

Daaryl wrote: »

the fact it was 4 dbs over the legal limit, So could anybody shed some light on the legal side of having a backbox or needing one if a cat and the silencer is still in it?

Haven't you answered your own question here?

two wheels good

The Decibel scale is a logarithmic scale.
For every 10dB increase the level of noise is doubled.
4dB is a significant margin

Personally, I congratulate the Garda for his/her diligence. Loud exhausts are an anti-social nuisance.

Daaryl

bear1 wrote: »

I mean if you sum it up its a bit more than a missing back box.

1) incorrect number plates
2) no tax
3) louder than normal
4) lowered heavily I'm guessing?
5) stickers on the windows which could be obstructive?
6) no back box

I mean when you hear it like that it paints a different type of picture.

1, Plates are correct on the car and are not illegal!
2, Alot of people leave the tax run out a month..
3, Yes it is loud, But it's not stupid loud to where it annoys everybody
4, It's low but it's not rubbing every second low, Only rubs if there's somebody in the back, My old e36 was a bit lower and went through the nct with no issues.
5, Stickers aren't obstructive where they are!
6, I know there's no backbox as i thought it was fine as my last few cars went through the nct with no back boxs in them and had cats and silencers and nothing was said.

TitianGerm

OP the guard most likely siezed your car because the Tax was out.

If you've no tax you shouldn't be on the road. Simples.

Daaryl

emmetkenny wrote: »

OP the guard most likely siezed your car because the Tax was out.

If you've no tax you shouldn't be on the road. Simples.

Nope, It got took for a psv and the first thing he asked me was the diff welded, Even though if he drove it in a small circle you'd know if it was welded or not

TitianGerm

Daaryl wrote: »

Nope, It got took for a psv and the first thing he asked me was the diff welded, Even though if he drove it in a small circle you'd know if it was welded or not

If he took two cars out of 40/50 you two must have really stood out though.

Best advice anyone can give you is make sure everything is road legal and then you won't be singled out.

I assume you've informed your insurance company that the car is modified? If not I believe your policy is nul and void which could land you in a lot of trouble if there was ever an accident.

Little CuChulainn

emmetkenny wrote: »

OP the guard most likely siezed your car because the Tax was out.

If you've no tax you shouldn't be on the road. Simples.

Tax has to be out two clear months for it to be seized.

Daaryl wrote: »

Nope, It got took for a psv and the first thing he asked me was the diff welded, Even though if he drove it in a small circle you'd know if it was welded or not

He's not qualified to make that assessment

gctest50

Originally Posted by Daaryl
the fact it was 4 dbs over the legal limit ,
So could anybody shed some light on the legal side of having a backbox or needing one if a cat and the silencer is still in it?

the fact it was more than twice the legal limit

the little dBs are logarithmic

Daaryl

gctest50 wrote: »

the fact it was more than twice the legal limit

the little dBs are logarithmic

No haha, I meant to say it was at 104dbs, My bad for that

gctest50

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

.............
He's not qualified to make that assessment

https://twitter.com/gardatraffic/status/552964126595874817

Daaryl

gctest50 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gardatraffic/status/552964126595874817

That's actually a psv inspector, Not a gaurd that's traffic corr

colm_mcm

Daaryl wrote: »

1, Plates are correct on the car and are not illegal!
2, Alot of people leave the tax run out a month..
3, Yes it is loud, But it's not stupid loud to where it annoys everybody
4, It's low but it's not rubbing every second low, Only rubs if there's somebody in the back, My old e36 was a bit lower and went through the nct with no issues.
5, Stickers aren't obstructive where they are!
6, I know there's no backbox as i thought it was fine as my last few cars went through the nct with no back boxs in them and had cats and silencers and nothing was said.

isnt the bottom of the numbers on your square-ish rear number plate obscured by a surround?

Daaryl

colm_mcm wrote: »

isnt the bottom of the numbers on your square-ish rear number plate obscured by a surround?

Yeah it is only a small little bit, You can still read the plate perfect, Nothing got said about it so far anyway so it must be fine!

Daaryl

two wheels good wrote: »

The Decibel scale is a logarithmic scale.
For every 10dB increase the level of noise is doubled.
4dB is a significant margin

Personally, I congratulate the Garda for his/her diligence. Loud exhausts are an anti-social nuisance.

That's your own opinion, Keep it yourself, I'm sure alot of people on this site hate or don't mind them!

bear1

I'm confused by all this. Guard spots your car and think it deserves another look.
Finds a few things wrong.
Did the guy then get on stomach and look for something wrong?

Daaryl

bear1 wrote: »

I'm confused by all this. Guard spots your car and think it deserves another look.
Finds a few things wrong.
Did the guy then get on stomach and look for something wrong? How did they find out there was no back box?

He was trying his best to find something wrong with the car so he could take it, He was looking under the car and saw it had no back box!

ohnonotgmail

Daaryl wrote: »

1, Plates are correct on the car and are not illegal!
2, Alot of people leave the tax run out a month..
3, Yes it is loud, But it's not stupid loud to where it annoys everybody
4, It's low but it's not rubbing every second low, Only rubs if there's somebody in the back, My old e36 was a bit lower and went through the nct with no issues.
5, Stickers aren't obstructive where they are!
6, I know there's no backbox as i thought it was fine as my last few cars went through the nct with no back boxs in them and had cats and silencers and nothing was said.

104 dB would annoy most people.

goz83

Daaryl wrote: »

1, Plates are correct on the car and are not illegal!
2, Alot of people leave the tax run out a month..
3, Yes it is loud, But it's not stupid loud to where it annoys everybody
4, It's low but it's not rubbing every second low, Only rubs if there's somebody in the back, My old e36 was a bit lower and went through the nct with no issues.
5, Stickers aren't obstructive where they are!
6, I know there's no backbox as i thought it was fine as my last few cars went through the nct with no back boxs in them and had cats and silencers and nothing was said.

1, yet you say the plates are partially obscured.
2, and alot more keep their tax up to date. No tax, no drive.
3, your opinion is at odds with the law and what is deemed acceptable.
4, it shouldn't rub at all. Doesn't sound very road worthy.
5, though not illegal, i'm sure they obscure what woukd otherwise be a clear view.
6, why no back box? Sorry, but that just seems pointless. I genuinely don't get it.

Daaryl

goz83 wrote: »

1, yet you say the plates are partially obscured.
2, and alot more keep their tax up to date. No tax, no drive.
3, your opinion is at odds with the law and what is deemed acceptable.
4, it shouldn't rub at all. Doesn't sound very road worthy.
5, though not illegal, i'm sure they obscure what woukd otherwise be a clear view.
6, why no back box? Sorry, but that just seems pointless. I genuinely don't get it.

1. You can read the plate fine, You'd wanna be blind if you can't!

2. I had no money to tax and it was getting taxed at the start of march since it's my birthday ina few days!

3.Maybe my opinion is at odds but everybody knows when a car is loud or not, And it's not loud considering the cat and a silencer is still in it!

4. It's only rubbing because of the tyre size on the car, I'm waiting on a unusual size tire to come even though there's brand new ones on it at the moment, Smaller tyre size = no rubbing at all!

5. Stickers aren't a issue for me anyway, Maybe for others but i can see fine looking through the side windows with them!

6. The backbox was completely rusted and there was holes in it, Only stuck a straight pipe on it while i wait to get a new backbox for the car!

masseyno9

Daaryl wrote: »

1. You can read the plate fine, You'd wanna be blind if you can't!

2. I had no money to tax and it was getting taxed at the start of march since it's my birthday ina few days!

3.Maybe my opinion is at odds but everybody knows when a car is loud or not, And it's not loud considering the cat and a silencer is still in it!

4. It's only rubbing because of the tyre size on the car, I'm waiting on a unusual size tire to come even though there's brand new ones on it at the moment, Smaller tyre size = no rubbing at all!

5. Stickers aren't a issue for me anyway, Maybe for others but i can see fine looking through the side windows with them!

6. The backbox was completely rusted and there was holes in it, Only stuck a straight pipe on it while i wait to get a new backbox for the car!

Not to sound like a d1ck, but if you can afford to buy brand new tires while you wait for an unusual size tire to come in (thus, presumably paying for 2 sets of tyres), you could afford to tax it. Similarly with the backbox/straight pipe issue - although you said your other cars have had straight pipes so anyone would be forgiven for suspecting we might be getting half-truths here.

Having said that, it does sound like seizing the car was a bit heavy-handed. If you explained all this (temporary rubbing issue, temporary straight pipe, tax being done soon...) in a calm manner and didn't get stand-offish with the garda, he/she was (imo) wrong to take the car. 10 days to present tax and exhaust and tyres at a Garda station would be enough, I reckon. Probably doesn't like modified cars. If, however you started off on the wrong foot with him/her, you were never going to win. If you're driving something modified, a bit loud, lowered, stickers etc. you need to be whiter than white when stopped or dealing with the Gardai.

TitianGerm

Daaryl wrote: »

1. You can read the plate fine, You'd wanna be blind if you can't!

2. I had no money to tax and it was getting taxed at the start of march since it's my birthday ina few days!

3.Maybe my opinion is at odds but everybody knows when a car is loud or not, And it's not loud considering the cat and a silencer is still in it!

4. It's only rubbing because of the tyre size on the car, I'm waiting on a unusual size tire to come even though there's brand new ones on it at the moment, Smaller tyre size = no rubbing at all!

5. Stickers aren't a issue for me anyway, Maybe for others but i can see fine looking through the side windows with them!

6. The backbox was completely rusted and there was holes in it, Only stuck a straight pipe on it while i wait to get a new backbox for the car!

If your hard up for cash you should sell the car and buy a bike

ED E

Judging by this is a recurring thing its safe enough to say...how to put it...you look the part. Tone it down if you want less hassle.

Big Nasty

masseyno9 wrote: »

Not to sound like a d1ck, but if you can afford to buy brand new tires while you wait for an unusual size tire to come in (thus, presumably paying for 2 sets of tyres), you could afford to tax it.

The tax is less than a month out if I understand correctly. Also when he does go to tax it he'll have to pay the back tax as declaring a car off the road after the fact is no longer possible.

Many of us have to juggle bills and I'll tell you one thing - if my wife was driving our car with minimum tyre thread and the tax was due I know which one I'd be prioritising.

Boater123

"My E36 got seized for having no backbox on it"

It got seized for quite a lot more than that.

"There was a complete exhaust system on it"

No there wasn't, you removed the back box "because it was rusty!?!!"

"it wasn't loud at bar it idling and small bit loud in 1st and 2nd"l

So it's only loud some of the time. And you have no idea how loud, it was your previous e36 that was recorded at 104db.

Are you seriously asking whether its legal or not to have such a vehicle on public roads?

Daaryl

masseyno9 wrote: »

Not to sound like a d1ck, but if you can afford to buy brand new tires while you wait for an unusual size tire to come in (thus, presumably paying for 2 sets of tyres), you could afford to tax it. .

To be honest, I thought the tyre size was fine to go with until it started rubbing with somebody in the back, I'd rather have legal tyres as you can get in more trouble for having bad tyres then no tax, So i thought it was the most logical and safest thing to do.

MarkAnthony

Daaryl wrote: »

To be honest, I thought the tyre size was fine to go with until it started rubbing with somebody in the back, I'd rather have legal tyres as you can get in more trouble for having bad tyres then no tax, So i thought it was the most logical and safest thing to do.

LOL, you're some man.

"My Lord it was a question of safety. As you can see I am a most responsible driver. I forwent the tax to allow me to stop in this fierce weather we've been having."

Please, please, pleeeeeaaaase try this one and let me know how you get on.

Edit "Furthermore the exhaust was to warn the village I was approaching."

Daaryl

MarkAnthony wrote: »

LOL, you're some man.

Thanks boy i do try lol

esforum

two wheels good wrote: »

The Decibel scale is a logarithmic scale.
For every 10dB increase the level of noise is doubled.
4dB is a significant margin

Personally, I congratulate the Garda for his/her diligence. Loud exhausts are an anti-social nuisance.

thats putting it mildly. Things should be done to drivers who insist on putting bean tin cans on their cars for no other reason than to make a 1985 Micra sound like it has a hole in the exhaust.

Big Nasty wrote: »

The tax is less than a month out if I understand correctly. Also when he does go to tax it he'll have to pay the back tax as declaring a car off the road after the fact is no longer possible.

Many of us have to juggle bills and I'll tell you one thing - if my wife was driving our car with minimum tyre thread and the tax was due I know which one I'd be prioritising.

thats not the same though is it? Does your wife spend money modifying a 2litre car thats 15 years old and then messing with the exhaust, reg plate, windows and suspension while also getting a nice new set of alloys with the tyres?

Daaryl wrote: »

That's your own opinion, Keep it yourself, I'm sure alot of people on this site hate or don't mind them!

We hate them. Very very few people like them, sleeping children especially dont like them when you are driving up and down a residential area deliberatly making the damn piece of **** sound as loud as possible.

You were driving an old, unsafe, modified to look like a twat BMW at a 'meet'. No sympathy, hope it gets crushed

PS. Has it still not got a front reg plate?

Daaryl

esforum wrote: »

thats putting it mildly. Things should be done to drivers who insist on putting bean tin cans on their cars for no other reason than to make a 1985 Micra sound like it has a hole in the exhaust.





We hate them. Very very few people like them, sleeping children especially dont like them when you are driving up and down a residential area deliberatly making the damn piece of **** sound as loud as possible.

You were driving an old, unsafe, modified to look like a twat BMW at a 'meet'. No sympathy, hope it gets crushed

You seem nice..

masseyno9

Daaryl wrote: »

To be honest, I thought the tyre size was fine to go with until it started rubbing with somebody in the back, I'd rather have legal tyres as you can get in more trouble for having bad tyres then no tax, So i thought it was the most logical and safest thing to do.

That's fair enough, and I did think of that while I typed, but not knowing if this was the 1st or 5th thing the Garda picked up on, you could maybe see where the skepticism came from. If he saw a lowered car, loud exhaust etc. and then the rubbing tires, he may have already formed an opinion that you were modifying before paying tax and the 'couldn't afford it' argument was out the window.

Also, in response to the other poster, I have of course juggled bills and let tax go longer than 1 month in the past (before I moved to a country where motor tax is non-existent) but I have always been extra squeaky clean in other respects and well aware of the need to not draw attention while driving in that situation. And agreed on the safety issue, but as I said, I was just giving reasons why the Garda may have formed a different opinion before the tax issue came up.

Attending a meet with a garda presence and driving around slowly (rather than parking in the back corner and walking about) might not have been the best idea. Still think you were hard done by to have it seized even though he was 'technically' allowed to, according to what others have said.

Big Nasty

esforum wrote: »

thats not the same though is it? Does your wife spend money modifying a 2litre car thats 15 years old and then messing with the exhaust, reg plate, windows and suspension while also getting a nice new set of alloys with the tyres?

Maybe he bought it that way?

Jdmsupra

esforum wrote: »

t

We hate them. Very very few people like them, sleeping children especially dont like them when you are driving up and down a residential area deliberatly making the damn piece of **** sound as loud as possible.

You were driving an old, unsafe, modified to look like a twat BMW at a 'meet'. No sympathy, hope it gets crushed

PS. Has it still not got a front reg plate?

I'd love to see your Prius get crushed old depressed lady get a life .

Daaryl

masseyno9 wrote: »

That's fair enough, and I did think of that while I typed, but not knowing if this was the 1st or 5th thing the Garda picked up on, you could maybe see where the skepticism came from. If he saw a lowered car, loud exhaust etc. and then the rubbing tires, he may have already formed an opinion that you were modifying before paying tax and the 'couldn't afford it' argument was out the window.

Also, in response to the other poster, I have of course juggled bills and let tax go longer than 1 month in the past (before I moved to a country where motor tax is non-existent) but I have always been extra squeaky clean in other respects and well aware of the need to not draw attention while driving in that situation. And agreed on the safety issue, but as I said, I was just giving reasons why the Garda may have formed a different opinion before the tax issue came up.

Attending a meet with a garda presence and driving around slowly (rather than parking in the back corner and walking about) might not have been the best idea. Still think you were hard done by to have it seized even though he was 'technically' allowed to, according to what others have said.

There was other cars that were in worse condition then mine, For example there was a 98 passat there no front reg, on it's arse literally probably cut springs in it and nothing get said to him, There was cars there with no front regs and nothing got said..

esforum

Jdmsupra wrote: »

I'd love to see your Prius get crushed old depressed lady get a life .

My cars legal so it wont and editing posts doesnt change anything

Jdmsupra

esforum wrote: »

My cars legal so it wont and editing posts doesnt change anything

What do you drive then ? A ****box yeahhh?

Daaryl

esforum wrote: »

My cars legal so it wont and editing posts doesnt change anything

Technically no car is legal when you think about it, The car passes the nct that day it's legal then, You're driving down the road you hit a pothole going down a country road, You'll knock something out of place or damage a cv boot, spring etc, Now that car won't pass the test, So technically everybodys car could get took for no being defective..