Carlow Kilkenny General Election 2016

catbear

I can't endorse the outlook that a nation losing half its population in a century is acceptable.

Any candidates that champions emigration as a social policy in this age are traitors as far as I'm concerned.

I've been that emigrant twice and resent the notion that its acceptable to export its failures of governance.

Emigration should not be government policy and pretending all emigrants leave willingly is dishonest and disrespectful.

cameramonkey

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/202232/Gerry-Adams-predicts-a-Sinn-Fein.html


Adams predicting a SF seat in C/KK.

cameramonkey

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/754566-ann-phelan/

Ann Phelan video. Interestingly she has to look at the notes to remember what her job is. Not a great video, doesn't inspire much confidence .

cameramonkey

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/754561-pat-deering/

Despite the hang dog look, not too bad.

cameramonkey

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/754561-pat-deering/

Chairman of KK tidy towns , very important if you want to be a TD.

cameramonkey

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/754561-pat-deering/

Chairman of KK tidy towns , very important if you want to be a TD.

fits

cameramonkey wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/754561-pat-deering/

Despite the hang dog look, not too bad.

I hate this 'carlow must be represented' thing. I expect all those elected in the constituency to represent the consituency at national level. This isnt the local election!

cameramonkey

fits wrote: »

I hate this 'carlow must be represented' thing. I expect all those elected in the constituency to represent the consituency at national level. This isnt the local election!

Very important for Carlow based candidates to stress their local credentials. Many votes do not leave the county for KK based candidates. There will be"we need a Carlow based TD to represent the country" chorus from all the Carlow hopefuls as the election gets nearer.

PaulKK

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/754564-bobby-aylward/

It's actually depressing that people vote for this guy.

fits

PaulKK wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/754564-bobby-aylward/

It's actually depressing that people vote for this guy.

Well none of them are particularly appealing in those videos.

PaulKK

fits wrote: »

Well none of them are particularly appealing in those videos.

Well I think JP Phelan, David Fitz, even McGuiness and Mkee at least have some kind of merit. Im not a finna fail fan but at least they speak well and would be some sort of decent representation of the constituency.

I quite like David Fitz he seems genuine enough but I wouldn't mind getting a chat with him when he's canvassing to suss him out.

madmaggie

The Greens are trying to resurrect themselves. Who was it kept Brian Cowen and co. in power for so long?

road_high

cameramonkey wrote: »

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/202232/Gerry-Adams-predicts-a-Sinn-Fein.html


Adams predicting a SF seat in C/KK.

Wow, terrorist from west Belfast "predicts" a seat, ah it must be going to happen so :rolleyes:

cameramonkey

road_high wrote: »

Wow, terrorist from west Belfast "predicts" a seat, ah it must be going to happen so :rolleyes:

So you dont think she will get a seat for SF? Care tell us how the seats will unfold. Just because you dont like a candidate is not really a good reason to think she wont get elected. A bit of mature reasoned debate and some indication of what type of numbers she will achieve and where you think she may fall short would be a start.

road_high

cameramonkey wrote: »

So you dont think she will get a seat for SF? Care tell us how the seats will unfold. Just because you dont like a candidate is not really a good reason to think she wont get elected. A bit of mature reasoned debate and some indication of what type of numbers she will achieve and where you think she may fall short would be a start.

Look what I think of SF, their cult party and candidates/cheerleaders would get me a lifetime ban on here so I'm not saying anymore. I don't have any time for her, her party and think she's a total waste of space based on everything I've read and seen over the years. On a broader front, SF/Syriza would be a nightmare for anyone like me that works for their living-from the employment uncertainty to the higher taxes that would quickly come about. We only have to look at NI and the state of its economy and see where SF gets a society. A vote for SF is just mind boggling for me.

cameramonkey

road_high wrote: »

Look what I think of SF, their cult party and candidates/cheerleaders would get me a lifetime ban on here so I'm not saying anymore. I don't have any time for her, her party and think she's a total waste of space based on everything I've read and seen over the years. On a broader front, SF/Syriza would be a nightmare for anyone like me that works for their living-from the employment uncertainty to the higher taxes that would quickly come about. We only have to look at NI and the state of its economy and see where SF gets a society. A vote for SF is just mind boggling for me.

As i suspected you haven't a clue about the election, all you do on this thread is attack SF. The thread is about the way the Carlow Kilkenny General Election 2016 will unfold, maybe you should try inform yourself even a little about politics and history. I could recommend a few books or web sites if you like.

Duiske

Obviously going to be tough for Ann Phelan to get re-elected. The warning signs are there since the guy she co-opted to take her council was trounced at the local election. She could well get a large part of the vote back that she usually had for the LE's in the Thomastown area, but Labour are going to take a bad beating generally and I don't think she will make it.
McGuinness is a dead cert as usual, think he was guest speaker at the closing of every pothole he could find this past year. Alyward will pull a large enough vote to see him through. J.P.Phelan will top the FG vote, and Deering should have enough support from Carlow to see him through. Funchion, though her election efforts have been almost entirely within Kilkenny, is also going to pull a large vote from Carlow. Think the race for the 5th seat will be between her and Fitzgerald.

The order I see the seats being won.

1. McGuinness.
2. Phelan (FG).
3. Alyward.
4. Deering.
5. Funchion. (but would not be too surprised if Fitzgerald took it.)

Captain Havoc

cameramonkey wrote: »

As i suspected you haven't a clue about the election, all you do on this thread is attack SF. The thread is about the way the Carlow Kilkenny General Election 2016 will unfold, maybe you should try inform yourself even a little about politics and history. I could recommend a few books or web sites if you like.

I think attacking a posters knowledge like that and not backing your own position is bullying and lowest common denominator tactics.

road_high

cameramonkey wrote: »

As i suspected you haven't a clue about the election, all you do on this thread is attack SF. The thread is about the way the Carlow Kilkenny General Election 2016 will unfold, maybe you should try inform yourself even a little about politics and history. I could recommend a few books or web sites if you like.

Well seen as I actually created the thread in the first place, I'm not going to take lectures from you as to how or what I should write. SF are fair game for attack, as is any other party or candidate I listed. The thread isn't what you should think it should be, this isn't a SF propaganda piece. If you want trained seals applauding SF go watch VB.
She may have a chance for a seat, but as ive said already, it'd be a tragedy to see such a poor candidate elected with the backing of a party linked to terrorism intent on destroying the economy. I've clearly hit a nerve with you as you keep replying and trying to shut me up with your condescending tone.

DerryRed

When are people going to let the past be the past when it comes to SF?

There are countless examples throughout history of political parties with military wings, which were then disbanded when the party fully embraced the democratic process. For example in South Africa the ANC formed a political wing (Umkhonto we Sizwe) in 1961, when they felt they had no alternative due to discrimination and civil rights abuses through the mainstream political process. Likewise the Provisional IRA grew out of discrimination and civil rights abuses against Nationalists, fueled by events such as Bloody Sunday.

It's been almost 19 years since the ceasefire, 18 years since the Good Friday Agreement and 15 years since the IRA weapons were decommissioned. What more do people want SF to do?

I think it's fair game to call out a party or candidate on economic and social policies, but let's leave these accusations of SF being terrorists in the past, where they belong.

road_high

fits wrote: »

I hate this 'carlow must be represented' thing. I expect all those elected in the constituency to represent the consituency at national level. This isnt the local election!

Well I can empathise with it as it's important to have direct representation too for an area, a bigger issue is though the continually bad quality candidates Carlow keep mustering up.
Ann Phelan will argue of course she straddles both in Graiguenamanagh and a lot of her support base is south Co Carlow naturally.

Faugheen

road_high wrote: »

Look what I think of SF, their cult party and candidates/cheerleaders would get me a lifetime ban on here so I'm not saying anymore. I don't have any time for her, her party and think she's a total waste of space based on everything I've read and seen over the years. On a broader front, SF/Syriza would be a nightmare for anyone like me that works for their living-from the employment uncertainty to the higher taxes that would quickly come about. We only have to look at NI and the state of its economy and see where SF gets a society. A vote for SF is just mind boggling for me.

How exactly is she a waste of space?

And if you tell me it's because she doesn't do anything then you clearly know nothing about her and instead you're blinded by your hatred for the party she represents.

Not voting for her because of her party is absolutely, 100 percent fair, but it isn't a reflection on her as an individual.

road_high

Faugheen wrote: »

How exactly is she a waste of space?

And if you tell me it's because she doesn't do anything then you clearly know nothing about her and instead you're blinded by your hatred for the party she represents.

Not voting for her because of her party is absolutely, 100 percent fair, but it isn't a reflection on her as an individual.

Seen and heard her speak on occasion- and believe me that was more than enough- this is absolutely not someone who will represent me or someone that would have the ability to say sit down with say investors in Kilkenny that might bring jobs here or build political alliances with key people or Ministers- again not something on the SF radar as they are hard left socialists who's sole aim is a socialist utopia paid for by the middle classes/so called rich ...she might be a nice person (doesn't particularly interest me), I have no ill will towards her as a person, but going up to the Dail and representing me a taxpayer is another matter altogether. Couple that with the Party she represents

catbear

I wonder how moralistic the people who are emphatic in their attacks on SF would have have being had they grown up on the bogside in the 60s/70s.

We're commemorating 1916 this year, the birth of our republic, our independence. It was armed revolt to cast off a foreign government who had withheld Irelands self determination since the act of union. Westminster's 19th century abstinence of care in Irelands economic development contributed entirely to the scale of the disaster of famine. In the decades of decay following the famine Britain's continued intransigence and antipathy towards Ireland saw the islands population half by the time of the rising; the engrained dynamic of depopulation did not reach its nadir until the 1950s.

As a matter of perspective if Irelands pre famine population had kept pace with Britain's then the current population of the island could be over 20 million.

SF talks a nationalist struggle narrative which can be out of step with the globalised Irish economy but I believe it's outlook is not that distant from the FF government that socialized the debts of the Irish banks, an act that I consider financial terrorism against the person but that they'd consider in the national interest. Then the current government publishes a banking report that mostly exonerates the political establishment past and present and guides all blame onto external parties.

So there's our full spectrum of financial competences, covering eachothers arses and blaming outsiders. Doesn't exactly inspire. All i see is SF picking up from FF, a changing of the guard but no real change in national politics.

road_high

catbear wrote: »

I wonder how moralistic the people who are emphatic in their attacks on SF would have have being had they grown up on the bogside in the 60s/70s.

We're commemorating 1916 this year, the birth of our republic, our independence. It was armed revolt to cast off a foreign government who had withheld Irelands self determination since the act of union. Westminster's 19th century abstinence of care in Irelands economic development contributed entirely to the scale of the disaster of famine. In the decades of decay following the famine Britain's continued intransigence and antipathy towards Ireland saw the islands population half by the time of the rising; the engrained dynamic of depopulation did not reach its nadir until the 1950s.

As a matter of perspective if Irelands pre famine population had kept pace with Britain's then the current population of the island could be over 20 million.

SF talks a nationalist struggle narrative which can be out of step with the globalised Irish economy but I believe it's outlook is not that distant from the FF government that socialized the debts of the Irish banks, an act that I consider financial terrorism against the person but that they'd consider in the national interest. Then the current government publishes a banking report that mostly exonerates the political establishment past and present and guides all blame onto external parties.

So there's our full spectrum of financial competences, covering eachothers arses and blaming outsiders. Doesn't exactly inspire. All i see is SF picking up from FF, a changing of the guard but no real change in national politics.

The Civil Rights movement was absolutely necessary and Nationalists were treated appallingly in Northern Ireland under a corrupt system of Gerrymandering. However, the IRA/SF that has since evolved is an entirely different kettle of fish with their close links to criminality such as fuel laundering etc. Not that kind of people I want anywhere near govt thanks. It will be a sad day for our democracy if the likes of SF ever get into power.
The aims of 1916 were noble also, it's nauseating to see present day SF exploit those too.

Squidvicious

DerryRed wrote: »

When are people going to let the past be the past when it comes to SF?

There are countless examples throughout history of political parties with military wings, which were then disbanded when the party fully embraced the democratic process. For example in South Africa the ANC formed a political wing (Umkhonto we Sizwe) in 1961, when they felt they had no alternative due to discrimination and civil rights abuses through the mainstream political process. Likewise the Provisional IRA grew out of discrimination and civil rights abuses against Nationalists, fueled by events such as Bloody Sunday.

It's been almost 19 years since the ceasefire, 18 years since the Good Friday Agreement and 15 years since the IRA weapons were decommissioned. What more do people want SF to do?

I think it's fair game to call out a party or candidate on economic and social policies, but let's leave these accusations of SF being terrorists in the past, where they belong.

There is a feeling among many that SF hasn't entirely shed it's IRA baggage. The recent defence of Slab Murphy hasn't helped. Mary-Lou calling him a decent country man is a little bit of an insult to, well, country men. Not to mention Gerry's recent idea that he'll get rid of non-jury courts. Hardly suggests he's trustworthy on law and order, does it? To my mind, they haven't spoken out anywhere near clearly enough to dissociate themselves from the IRA. I understand where the IRA came from, but I can't condone their actions. SF still has a whiff of cordite about it. Some day, those memories will fade. Just not yet.

Squidvicious

Duiske wrote: »

Obviously going to be tough for Ann Phelan to get re-elected. The warning signs are there since the guy she co-opted to take her council was trounced at the local election. She could well get a large part of the vote back that she usually had for the LE's in the Thomastown area, but Labour are going to take a bad beating generally and I don't think she will make it.
McGuinness is a dead cert as usual, think he was guest speaker at the closing of every pothole he could find this past year. Alyward will pull a large enough vote to see him through. J.P.Phelan will top the FG vote, and Deering should have enough support from Carlow to see him through. Funchion, though her election efforts have been almost entirely within Kilkenny, is also going to pull a large vote from Carlow. Think the race for the 5th seat will be between her and Fitzgerald.

The order I see the seats being won.

1. McGuinness.
2. Phelan (FG).
3. Alyward.
4. Deering.
5. Funchion. (but would not be too surprised if Fitzgerald took it.)

Your views are similar to mine. However, I'd be fairly surprised if SF didn't get the last seat. I just can't see the two traditional big parties taking all five seats. It would be the first time in a long, long time that FG and FF swept the boards in this constituency and unlikely given current(albeit national) opinion polls.

Squidvicious

road_high wrote: »

The Civil Rights movement was absolutely necessary and Nationalists were treated appallingly in Northern Ireland under a corrupt system of Gerrymandering. However, the IRA/SF that has since evolved is an entirely different kettle of fish with their close links to criminality such as fuel laundering etc. Not that kind of people I want anywhere near govt thanks. It will be a sad day for our democracy if the likes of SF ever get into power.
The aims of 1916 were noble also, it's nauseating to see present day SF exploit those too.

Not to get involved in an entirely separate argument, but I think that we're far too quick to distance modern SF and IRA from the 1916 rebels. For better or worse, there are many parallels between the IRA 1916/22 and it's more modern incarnation.

DerryRed

road_high wrote: »

The Civil Rights movement was absolutely necessary and Nationalists were treated appallingly in Northern Ireland under a corrupt system of Gerrymandering. However, the IRA/SF that has since evolved is an entirely different kettle of fish with their close links to criminality such as fuel laundering etc. Not that kind of people I want anywhere near govt thanks. It will be a sad day for our democracy if the likes of SF ever get into power.
The aims of 1916 were noble also, it's nauseating to see present day SF exploit those too.

The Provisional IRA no longer exist. What you have today are breakaway groups calling themselves various versions of The IRA, who don't agree with the ceasefire, Good Friday Agreement, decommissioning etc that has taken place during the last 15-20 years.

I'm not a member of Sinn Fein, but I speak regularly with relatives from back home who are. There is a deep and bitter division these days in the Nationalist community between the majority who opted to go the political route and the minority who decided to continue with an armed struggle.

I guess for some people 15/20 years of ceasefire, plus complete decommissioning of weapons (signed off by a fully Independent International Commission) is not enough. Maybe it will take another generation, or two, for people to realise that SF has fully embraced the political process, in the same way it took a few generations for FF and FG to fully shed their associations with violence.

catbear

road_high wrote: »

The aims of 1916 were noble also, it's nauseating to see present day SF exploit those too.

The struggle of 1916 expanded into a guerilla war for independence and then into a internecine civil conflict. It took a good decade or two before the entire free state could be considered secured entirely yet it became the republic we celebrate today.
The notion that the state we live in today was won by consent is a indolent fantasy. Our liberty was achieved by force, not by a lucky lotto ticket or an X-Factor win nor was it bequeathed willingly by the British Empire.
It was fought for. FF betrayed that sacrifice and it's no surprise that a newer generation should vote for an alternative republican party.