General MMA Chat/News mk2

Mellor

CatFromHue wrote: »

Creatine is a funny one as in many ways it's a legal high.

There is a specific way you have to take, cycle, it and from people I know who have taken it correctly they do feel a big boost in their performances but when they stop taking it they lose that boost.

A legal high??? That's some tabloidesque hyperbole there. There is no high from creatine.

It's easily the most researched supplement. The data is fairly clear, it can be a minor erogenic aid, and is safe to take. It doesn't need to be cycled, that a misconception.

On the caffeine, i don't know if they were talking about banning it outright or about having a specific level but in rugby in ireland we'd a guy who took too much caffeine and had to go to hospital for a few days, Declan Fitzpatrick of Ulster, through taking too much caffeine. It's not a cup of coffee but caffeine and sugar gels and some guys might take a few of them through a game.

Stephen Hunt had a funny story too about a doctor not wanting him to play a game as his heart was beating so fast but Hunt was saying that's normal as he has a few cups of coffee and then a caffeine gel, or two, before a game.

To me that's performance enhancing.

Studies show caffeine is performance enhancing too. It's not banned, but its monitored to gain data on the likes of the above patterns of use.

The WADA list isn't an attempt to remove every subtance that can help performanc. Otherwise they'd ban food and water, two key performance enhancers.

martyos121 wrote: »

Caffeine is much more of a PED than many of the substances on that ridiculous WADA list (not that I think it should be a banned substance, it's benefits still aren't enough to be considered a PED, but other things on that list are even less of an issue). That list outlaws the most mundane, everyday things from what I understand, and it means professional athletes have a slightly lower quality of life because of it. There's feckin multivitamins on that list, that's not performance enhancing, it's just a good lifestyle choice.

What mundane everyday things are banned? I've never seen multivitamins mentioned, pretty sure they aren't there.

Lukker-

I feel sorry for Machida. DHEA doesn't do ****, isn't performance enhancing and he didn't pop for it, he had it included on his supplement list.

I mean he should have had more sense sure, but Hendo calling him a P.O.S when he was juicing through a loophole himself and now looks sh*t just like every other fighter who was taking TRT.

martyos121

Mellor wrote:

What mundane everyday things are banned? I've never seen multivitamins mentioned, pretty sure they aren't there.

I heard it mentioned on a podcast, can't recall who said it or which show it was, but I might have paraphrased a bit to make a point. What they said was, if I recall correctly, there are substances on that list that are about as effective on performance as multivitamins (so, pretty much no effect whatsoever, but I'm certainly no expert in that particular field). It was said that there was a lot of additions to that WADA list just before the 2012 Olympics that were supposed to stamp out even the most subtle abusers because many Olympic sports are games of extremely fine margins.

I genuinely can't recall who said it and if I do, I'll be straight on to edit this, but they sounded like they knew their stuff, wasn't one of the podcasts I regularly listen to either.

CatFromHue

Mellor wrote: »

A legal high??? That's some tabloidesque hyperbole there. There is no high from creatine.

It's easily the most researched supplement. The data is fairly clear, it can be a minor erogenic aid, and is safe to take. It doesn't need to be cycled, that a misconception.

Of course there's no high, you need to relax a bit, it's a term of phrase

A legal high is a substance that mimics an illegal drug and creatine is a substance that gives you a bit of boost in performance that once you stop taking you lose that boost.

I agree it is safe to take, as long as you don't have a kidney problem.

Depp

Caffeine was banned until very recently, not sure of the exact numbers but I remember someone said something along the lines of two cans of redbul the day of and your post event test would be popped

Mellor

There's definitely some weird stuff on the list. But I don't think any on it is "everyday". It's all very specific chemicals, like Peroxisome Proliferator Activated Receptor δ. I have no idea that is.
Somebody tried to tell me yesterday that aspirin and ibuprofen were on it. They aren't obviously. Pseudoephedrine (the restricted version of sudafed) is maybe a bit everyday. But it has a threshold for for use.

And you are right that the actually performance enhancing effects of some of these substances are negligible. Maybe some of them don't have an effect, and re just expensive vitamins. But the clincher for me is that the people taking them believe that there is an effect. Like human growth hormone, studies show that it probably doesn't help athletic performance. But somebody injecting the stuff believes that it will, so he is trying to cheating regardless of the effects.

martyos121

Mellor wrote: »

There's definitely some weird stuff on the list. But I don't think any on it is "everyday". It's all very specific chemicals, like Peroxisome Proliferator Activated Receptor δ. I have no idea that is.
Somebody tried to tell me yesterday that aspirin and ibuprofen were on it. They aren't obviously. Pseudoephedrine (the restricted version of sudafed) is maybe a bit everyday. But it has a threshold for for use.

And you are right that the actually performance enhancing effects of some of these substances are negligible. Maybe some of them don't have an effect, and re just expensive vitamins. But the clincher for me is that the people taking them believe that there is an effect. Like human growth hormone, studies show that it probably doesn't help athletic performance. But somebody injecting the stuff believes that it will, so he is trying to cheating regardless of the effects.

Last paragraph is a good point. I genuinely believe though that the placebo effect of most of those in effective substances have more of an effect than the substances themselves. That isn't to say a placebo effect would even work in combat sports, it's just how irrelevant some of the items on that list are.

It sickens me a little that Machida looks like he's getting a 2 year ban (and more than likely his career will be over in that case, he's 37) for taking a substance that won't give him any hint of an edge in that Henderson fight. I'd like to believe him when he says he didn't know it was banned because the effects of that supplement are so minimal that if he was going to look for a competitive advantage, he surely would've taken something stronger, no?

Mellor

Depp wrote: »

Caffeine was banned until very recently, not sure of the exact numbers but I remember someone said something along the lines of two cans of redbul the day of and your post event test would be popped

It was banned in the 80s, up until 2004. I think in the 80s and 90s the testers were really a bit lost on what to be doing with themselves.

According to this page. The limit was equal to about 8 espressos. An espresso is about the same as a Redbull.

Mellor

martyos121 wrote: »

It sickens me a little that Machida looks like he's getting a 2 year ban (and more than likely his career will be over in that case, he's 37) for taking a substance that won't give him any hint of an edge in that Henderson fight. I'd like to believe him when he says he didn't know it was banned because the effects of that supplement are so minimal that if he was going to look for a competitive advantage, he surely would've taken something stronger, no?

I actually hope they tested him anyway, on the off chance they don't detect it he should be free to go. I believe him too that he didn't know as it's a really silly thing to take from a risk:reward point of view.

shrapnel222

martyos121 wrote: »

I heard it mentioned on a podcast, can't recall who said it or which show it was, but I might have paraphrased a bit to make a point. What they said was, if I recall correctly, there are substances on that list that are about as effective on performance as multivitamins (so, pretty much no effect whatsoever, but I'm certainly no expert in that particular field). It was said that there was a lot of additions to that WADA list just before the 2012 Olympics that were supposed to stamp out even the most subtle abusers because many Olympic sports are games of extremely fine margins.

I genuinely can't recall who said it and if I do, I'll be straight on to edit this, but they sounded like they knew their stuff, wasn't one of the podcasts I regularly listen to either.

i remember the scotsman Alan Baxter getting his skiing medal he won at the salt lake city winter olympics taken from him because he tested positive for a substance on the banned list.

He hadn't realised that his vicks inhaler from the UK contained this non performance enhancing yet banned substance. Poor F*cker was heartbroken.

Zero-Cool

Cage Warriors have signed a deal with UFC Fight Pass debuting today. That's mad!

Mellor

shrapnel222 wrote: »

i remember the scotsman Alan Baxter getting his skiing medal he won at the salt lake city winter olympics taken from him because he tested positive for a substance on the banned list.

He hadn't realised that his vicks inhaler from the UK contained this non performance enhancing yet banned substance. Poor F*cker was heartbroken.

Similar thing happened to a Irish swimmer, Andrew Bree. He qualified for Beijing olympics. But then failed a test. Also for a Vicks inhaler.

I think it's might be the US version that had the banned supplement. Bree had been training in America and picked it up there. Maybe Baxter picked one up in Utah during the games. Bree was luckier though, common sense prevailed and they overturned the ban and let him compete in Beijing.

Mellor

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Cage Warriors have signed a deal with UFC Fight Pass debuting today. That's mad!

UFC signed a deal with a local show here too. Brace MMA, my mate is fighting on fight pass tomorrow.

People give the UFC a lot of stick over having a monopoly, etc. But stuff like the about is great for the sport imo. They aren't doing it to mark millions

shrapnel222

Mellor wrote: »

Similar thing happened to a Irish swimmer, Andrew Bree. He qualified for Beijing olympics. But then failed a test. Also for a Vicks inhaler.

I think it's might be the US version that had the banned supplement. Bree had been training in America and picked it up there. Maybe Baxter picked one up in Utah during the games. Bree was luckier though, common sense prevailed and they overturned the ban and let him compete in Beijing.

you're right, It could very well have been the other way round. Baxter wasn't so lucky though even though he proved it came from the vicks, he had to hand over his medal.

Zero-Cool

The fight announcement we've all been waiting for. ..... RDA v Alvarez, July 7th, Fight Night, Fight Pass exclusive.....

Now we know the opposite of Red Panty Night.

Depp

Zero-Cool wrote: »

The fight announcement we've all been waiting for. ..... RDA v Alvarez, July 7th, Fight Night, Fight Pass exclusive.....

Now we know the opposite of Red Panty Night.

bet he regrets his sore foot now! thats gotta sting!

Lukker-

I'd say hes prob pulling in more than normal still. They are really pushing fight pass. Shame the place will prob still be half empty.

Devastator

Zero-Cool wrote: »

The fight announcement we've all been waiting for. ..... RDA v Alvarez, July 7th, Fight Night, Fight Pass exclusive.....

Now we know the opposite of Red Panty Night.

Still leaves the co main spot open for UFC 200....Jones/DC or Lawlor Vs ? maybe they'll wait until after 197 to see how Jones comes through against OSP....although Jones/DC playing undercard to any other fight seems strange

raze_them_all_

Depp wrote: »

bet he regrets his sore foot now! thats gotta sting!

I bet mcgreggor regrets it more

Gamebred

RDA is going to murder him,wouldnt of gave alverez the shot after them dodgy enough wins but dont care enough to complain because ill be tuning in anyways and expect RDA to maul him.

Gamebred

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I bet mcgreggor regrets it more

With that gas tank he had in march,I'd honestly say RDA would've beat him quite easily,he couldnt go 7 minutes without gassing,twas probably a blessing he took a mad fight and found out his few weak points,cardio being probably the main one,obviously he coulda knocked rda out but its guessing,still think he could mind.

martyos121

What's the story with Robbie Lawler? Haven't heard a word about him since the Condit fight, are there any plans for him? I'd love to see a rematch of that fight.

Zero-Cool

It's looking like Robbie might fight at 200 but the only way it will be 'mind blowing' would be against GSP which i dont think will happen but would be epic

martyos121

GSP would never take second billing to McGregor. GSP vs. Lawler would do well over a million buys on their own PPV, can't see it happening at 200 but I'm not overly impressed with the card so far so I'd love it to happen somehow.

Apparently the main stumbling block for GSP coming back is the Reebok deal. He's sponsored by Under Armour, one of Reebok's main competitions and he's made it clear he's not giving that sponsorship up. I'm sure they'll work something out but it just goes to show what a clusterfcuk of a deal that was and the repercussions it can have.

Wrongway1985

I would highly doubt them adding another 5 rounder to 200, the bulk of the card is made up and Paige Van Zandt bout supposedly lined up as well that leaves probably 2-3 fights to fill card

DrPhilG

martyos121 wrote: »

Apparently the main stumbling block for GSP coming back is the Reebok deal. He's sponsored by Under Armour, one of Reebok's main competitions and he's made it clear he's not giving that sponsorship up. I'm sure they'll work something out but it just goes to show what a clusterfcuk of a deal that was and the repercussions it can have.

Anderson Silva said the same about his Nike deal. The right amount of money heals all.

Lukker-

Fightpass now this? :pac:

martyos121

Didn't realise that was going ahead at the MGM. Tickets would want to be awful cheap if they want to sell out there, can't imagine the rest of the card will be amazing.

Tazzimus

Foot and vagina must be the same word in Portuguese

Paully D

Mark Hunt has signed a 6 fight deal with the UFC. Madness IMO. He's 42 and has taken an unbelievable amount of damage throughout his time in MMA (and dished out some too it must be said).

I know he has won 2 in a row and the heavyweight division is very shallow at the moment so he's a couple of wins away from a shot, but he has already lost to every one of the elite guys he has faced in that division and I don't think he will ever have enough to make the leap.

A nice guy and his story makes him impossible not to root for, but I think he's in for a tough time with his health in his elder years.