Why do you hate Irish?

Wibbs

Orangebrigade wrote: »

Or they didn't buy into the Gaelic propaganda to brainwash them into being proper Irish and being told this is what you must learn and follow.

To be fair, no matter where we're from in background on this island we've all got our cultural propaganda to wade through.

Coles

Wibbs wrote: »

So what you're suggesting is the vast majority of Irish people are less intelligent? You must be, considering the vast majority of Irish people can't speak Irish anywhere close to fluency. Nah, just the same old same old from the Gaelgoiri pulling, or attempting to pull some elitist guff. Common among your little Irelanders and it doesn't help the language one little bit.

The vast majority of Irish people don't hate the Irish language! What an outrageous suggestion. And people don't need to speak the language fluently, do they? I learned French and Latin and I'll never be fluent in them!

OrangeBrigade wrote:

Or they didn't buy into the Gaelic propaganda to brainwash them into being proper Irish and being told this is what you must learn and follow.

Er, what? Are you trying to politicise one of the oldest languages on the planet? It's your language too, like it or not!

Iwasfrozen

I think Coles needs to go back to school.

Del.Monte

Coles wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish people don't hate the Irish language! What an outrageous suggestion. And people don't need to speak the language fluently, do they? I learned French and Latin and I'll never be fluent in them!

Er, what? Are you trying to politicise one of the oldest languages on the planet? It's your language too, like it or not!

Er, why?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Never said it did...?



A country is not an emotive organism, to be pedantic. But again, this doesn't contrdict anything I said. the use of "our" can not and should not apply to everyone.

I wasn't responding to one of your posts.

kefir32

Coles wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily say that these people are less intelligent (although there is a obvious correlation if you look across the academic grades), but many of the people who couldn't learn Irish failed because they wallowed in a bad attitude passed on by their parents and peers. A subclass with a culture of failure?

What an insulting and condescending opinion to have. As a previous poster said, very insular "little irelander"

Huntergonzo

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with having a sense of where you are from and it doesn't automatically have to coincide with some xenophobic view of the world.

If you're saying you need Irish to have a sense of where you are from then I can't understand that attitude, to me it screams of needing reassurance. I know where I'm from, I'm very happy with it and never wanted to be from anywhere else, if you need to learn Irish to feel Irish, that's your own business.

MRnotlob606

You should instill a passion for a language learning. Language learning in the Irish Education system is dull, vacuous and monotonous. There's no point learning off lots of material and then regurgitating it in an exam.

Ferris_Bueller

Huntergonzo wrote: »

But as it stands there is no language barrier and there is no logical benefits to introducing one. I understand that you personally like Irish, which is fine, I have no problem with that, but you're allowing your personal preference to come in the way of common sense.



People may have an interest in those subjects and I would argue that they have more practical use than Irish because they teach us about the world we live in. Personally I liked history, geography and science, I had zero interest in religion and the way it's taught is a national disgrace (but that's another days work). But the thing is those aren't core subjects, you can eventually drop them and I think there should be more options anyway but you can't drop Irish, it's there right the way through and that raises contempt if you ask me.

It's also interesting how people react when you criticize Irish, so for example if I say 'I hate history', nobody would really care (even though Irish history is apart of history) but if I say 'I hate Irish', plenty of people won't like it, why the difference, why the emotional attachment to a language?

Finally, again why not have the option to learn another language like Spanish or French from an early age instead of Irish? they have far more practical use.

Okay some fair points. It is probably impractical if my suggestion of all primary schools being Gaelscoils were to come true, but I don't see what harm would come of it, I don't think grades would suffer and I think it would make us as a nation better with languages in the long term. It might not be a good enough reason to enforce this obviously, but if the government did want to truly revive the Irish language I think that would be the most effective way of doing so.

There are more practical languages we could learn of course, but sure wouldn't it be more practical if everyone in the world just learned English? (not exactly a fair comparison I know..)

Whenever I am communicating with someone from another country I do think it's a shame that they often have two or three languages while most Irish people only have one. I have found people to react very well to when I speak Irish to them as a lot of them aren't even aware that we have our own language.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Huntergonzo wrote: »

If you're saying you need Irish to have a sense of where you are from then I can't understand that attitude, to me it screams of needing reassurance. I know where I'm from, I'm very happy with it and never wanted to be from anywhere else, if you need to learn Irish to feel Irish, that's your own business.

No I'm saying in general it's good for a country for the citizens to have a sense of pride in the country in general.

Iwasfrozen

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No I'm saying in general it's good for a country for the citizens to have a sense of pride in the country in general.

You can have pride in your country without learning a dying useless language.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You can have pride in your country without learning a dying useless language.

Grand.But that wasn't mentioned in the post I responded to so what you said above has no relevance to my post.

Ferris_Bueller

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You can have pride in your country without learning a dying useless language.

You can, but I'd imagine someone who had a lot of pride in their country wouldn't be anti-Irish and call it a dying useless language. Plenty on here have said that Irish is of no relevance to them but that they don't particularly dislike it, but if someone is actively against the Irish language I would question their countries pride. Maybe that's just me though.

Wibbs

Coles wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish people don't hate the Irish language! What an outrageous suggestion.

I know this may prove difficult for you, but try reading what people actually write, without the blinkers of your worldview in place. I wrote "the vast majority of Irish people can't speak Irish". For future reference in no language is the word "speak" equivalent to "hate". Try again.

And people don't need to speak the language fluently, do they? I learned French and Latin and I'll never be fluent in them!

Brilliant. Without any internal recognition of irony you prove my point. You're not French, nor Roman so it makes little difference as far as your cultural identity, but apparently even if you speak like a toddler in Irish that gives you enough cultural identity as a proper Irishman/woman? You want to sound like a foreigner in your own land do you? Mkay. Whatever oils your axle Ted.

Er, what? Are you trying to politicise one of the oldest languages on the planet?

Ironics all over the shop. :pac:

It's your language too, like it or not!

Pretty much sums up the Little Irelander in one sentence. Kudos.

kefir32

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

You can, but I'd imagine someone who had a lot of pride in their country wouldn't be anti-Irish and call it a dying useless language. Plenty on here have said that Irish is of no relevance to them but that they don't particularly dislike it, but if someone is actively against the Irish language I would question their countries pride. Maybe that's just me though.

yeah its just you

Iwasfrozen

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

You can, but I'd imagine someone who had a lot of pride in their country wouldn't be anti-Irish and call it a dying useless language. Plenty on here have said that Irish is of no relevance to them but that they don't particularly dislike it, but if someone is actively against the Irish language I would question their countries pride. Maybe that's just me though.

To call Irish a dieing and useless language is to call a spade a spade. Yes I'm blunt but I'm also correct.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I wasn't responding to one of your posts.

Apologies - think I may have mixed you up with someone else.

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Okay some fair points. It is probably impractical if my suggestion of all primary schools being Gaelscoils were to come true, but I don't see what harm would come of it, I don't think grades would suffer and I think it would make us as a nation better with languages in the long term. It might not be a good enough reason to enforce this obviously, but if the government did want to truly revive the Irish language I think that would be the most effective way of doing so.

The question I asked still stands: why change something that works fine for something that makes the lanaguge a priority ahead of the kids and their education?

And this "sense of pride" question is bogus - let the kids decide what they like and don't like. Let them express themselves.

Because in your scenario, your forcing them to express you (or the state), and you don't have the right to do that.

Caoimhgh1n

kefir32 wrote: »

yeah its just you

Incorrect.

kefir32

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Incorrect.

Fighting a losing battle champ

Ferris_Bueller

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The question I asked still stands: why change something that works fine for something that makes the lanaguge a priority ahead of the kids and their education?

And this "sense of pride" question is bogus - let the kids decide what they like and don't like. Let them express themselves.

Because in your scenario, your forcing them to express you (or the state), and you don't have the right to do that.

How would it effect the kids and their education? I don't think it would effect their education at all, if anything I would guess it would only further their education. Maybe as some of you are saying it isn't worth the hassle of trying to revive the language to the majority, and for this reason it will probably never happen, but to say it would effect their education is untrue.

Also, would the state not have a right to do that? At the moment Irish is compulsory in schools so they are already 'forcing them' to learn it.. If I stated they don't have a right to force my kids to speak English would I have a leg to stand on?

Huntergonzo

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Okay some fair points. It is probably impractical if my suggestion of all primary schools being Gaelscoils were to come true, but I don't see what harm would come of it, I don't think grades would suffer and I think it would make us as a nation better with languages in the long term. It might not be a good enough reason to enforce this obviously, but if the government did want to truly revive the Irish language I think that would be the most effective way of doing so.

Again I have no problem with people wanting to learn languages (including Irish), in fact some people have a real skill for it and I actually admire that, one of my sister's mate's can speak something 10 or 12 languages fluently (but she's an exceptional case and she's made a career out of it).

Also in fairness I don't think it's really up to the government to decide to revive the language, they're supposed to reflect the will of the people on such issues (except for in circumstances of human rights of course, no amount of will should deny someone their human rights) and I don't see a huge amount of interest in it's revival, bit of talk here and there yes but nothing on a mass scale.

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

There are more practical languages we could learn of course, but sure wouldn't it be more practical if everyone in the world just learned English? (not exactly a fair comparison I know..)

I think it would actually be very practical if we all had a common language (not necessarily English) but that's not likely to happen any time soon and you can't force these things on people.

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Whenever I am communicating with someone from another country I do think it's a shame that they often have two or three languages while most Irish people only have one. I have found people to react very well to when I speak Irish to them as a lot of them aren't even aware that we have our own language.

I agree, as a rule English speaking countries tend to be very bad at second languages and it's a bit of a shame but circumstances has worked in our favour because English is a sort of universal second language, so there's no great necessity for us to learn a second language.

Ps, I also use a bit of Irish here and there when abroad, comes in great with the local cailíní

Huntergonzo

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No I'm saying in general it's good for a country for the citizens to have a sense of pride in the country in general.

Fair enough, but any time I hear someone taking out national pride I always laugh and think of this quote:

https://louiseinperson.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/most-enjoyable-george/george-carlin-quote-on-ethnic-and-national-pride/

mansize

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

To call Irish a dieing and useless language is to call a spade a spade. Yes I'm blunt but I'm also correct.

In your mind alone

Iwasfrozen

mansize wrote: »

In your mind alone

Nooo, that's pretty much the lay of the land.

Iwasfrozen

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Fair enough, but any time I hear someone taking out national pride I always laugh and think of this quote:

https://louiseinperson.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/most-enjoyable-george/george-carlin-quote-on-ethnic-and-national-pride/

Some people are insecure about their own achievements and need to feel a part of the achievements of others. That's really what "national pride" is about.

smurgen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Some people are insecure about their own achievements and need to feel a part of the achievements of others. That's really what "national pride" is about.

I'm not insecure of my achievements buy I'm proud of Ireland.it's one of the best countries in the world and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know a lot about the world.

Caoimhgh1n

kefir32 wrote: »

Fighting a losing battle champ

Somebody ignorantly spoke on behalf of the entire country, and I was telling him he was incorrect. How is that fighting? Is that all you want to do, win, for your ego?

Iwasfrozen

smurgen wrote: »

I'm not insecure of my achievements buy I'm proud of Ireland.it's one of the best countries in the world and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know a lot about the world.

It's certainly one of the best countries in the world but that's hardly a personal achievement you can feel pride in is it? It's not even an achievement of the Irish people collectively.

Huntergonzo

smurgen wrote: »

I'm not insecure of my achievements buy I'm proud of Ireland.it's one of the best countries in the world and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know a lot about the world.

Ah in fairness it's a bit of a conservative kip, also I'm appalled by the lack of burrito bars around, had to leave the farm yesterday and head for the big schmoke to get one, there should be one on every street corner!

smurgen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's certainly one of the best countries in the world but that's hardly a personal achievement you can feel pride in is it? It's not even an achievement of the Irish people collectively.

it's the very definition of collective achievement.contries do not become great by accident.we are regularly in the top 10 for index of livings.I am happy that I am irish.