Munster vs Leinster buildup

Crimsonforce

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Henshaw only plays 12 for Ireland.... doesn't he? So you could just switch them.

My bad, just mixed them up when I was writing

jacothelad

omerin wrote: »

Munster Rugby needs to be reminded that this is a professional sport and there is no room for sentiment. Someone in power needs to then grow a set of balls and sack Foley.
We used to be good at the basics on the game, could go through phase after phase, recruited good players that added value and when we got things wrong we put them right in the next game. The players are demoralised and today's loss isn't acceptable.

MLC61 wrote: »

This.

He has a tough job with an average squad. It can be frustrating to watch them dominate possession and not look like scoring, however that's a factor of the lack of talent at his disposal I believe rather than a lack of ambition or tactical awareness.

Payne back training. Running well and looking forward to returning in 'a few weeks.' Ditto Olding.

awec wrote: »

McCloskey is a 12 and only a 12.

Henderson is long term injured.

Payne is injured and has been since the World Cup with an unknown prognosis.

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Henshaw only plays 12 for Ireland.... doesn't he? So you could just switch them.

Not according to that rather good article Gordon Darcy wrote a few weeks ago on the difference between a twelve and a thirteen?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Stheno wrote: »

Not according to that rather good article Gordon Darcy wrote a few weeks ago on the difference between a twelve and a thirteen?

I mean he doesn't play 12 at Connacht. He plays 13 or 15.

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I mean he doesn't play 12 at Connacht. He plays 13 or 15.

Ah sorry, I thought he played 13 or 15.

Genuinely don't get why he plays out of position for Ireland.

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

Ah sorry, I thought he played 13 or 15.

Genuinely don't get why he plays out of position for Ireland.

because we had bod/darce retired/out of favour for the 6n this year and JS manufactured a midfield of Henshaw and Payne

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

because we had bod/darce retired/out of favour for the 6n this year and JS manufactured a midfield of Henshaw and Payne

Does it work as an option now, when you look at the likes of McCloskey/Ringrose/Marshall as other potential pairings?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Stheno wrote: »

Does it work as an option now, when you look at the likes of McCloskey/Ringrose/Marshall as other potential pairings?

Payne and Henshaw are both FBs by trade and given Rob K's struggle with injury since the WC it's entirely possible that either one could play at 15 to make room for one of the above in the centre.

Short term I can't see Joe changing the central pairing anytime soon though unless one of Henshaw/Payne is injured. Long term. ... Payne is no spring chicken so I'd like to see Henshaw back at 15 and McCloskey/Ringrose as the centre pairing.

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Payne and Henshaw are both FBs by trade and given Rob K's struggle with injury since the WC it's entirely possible that either one could play at 15 to make room for one of the above in the centre.

Short term I can't see Joe changing the central pairing anytime soon though unless one of Henshaw/Payne is injured. Long term. ... Payne is no spring chicken so I'd like to see Henshaw back at 15 and McCloskey/Ringrose as the centre pairing.

That makes sense logically. Wonder how reality will look

flouncer

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Payne and Henshaw are both FBs by trade and given Rob K's struggle with injury since the WC it's entirely possible that either one could play at 15 to make room for one of the above in the centre.

Short term I can't see Joe changing the central pairing anytime soon though unless one of Henshaw/Payne is injured. Long term. ... Payne is no spring chicken so I'd like to see Henshaw back at 15 and McCloskey/Ringrose as the centre pairing.

You are welcome to henshaw. Our full back is better and our two centres are better

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

flouncer wrote: »

You are welcome to henshaw. Our full back is better and our centre is better

Who is "you" and who is "our".

I'm talking about Ireland.... not sure who else he'd be playing for.

awec

Schmidt just loves a fullback. The more fullbacks you can squeeze into a backline the better

Zzippy

flouncer wrote: »

You are welcome to henshaw. Our full back is better and our two centres are better

Would you cop on!

thomond2006

I assume his quad injury meant he couldn't kick, but I was desperately disappointed in Bleyendaal tonight. He wasn't helped by the service to him but he seemed to be content to shovel the ball out wide most of the night. It was far too easy for Leinster to defend out wide with the likes of Zebo living off scraps. Scannell is not the finished product (dreadful miss in the 1st half) but I'd have him starting in Belfast over Keatley or Bleyendaal right now.

The main positives were Earls' injury not appearing to be serious and the return of O'Donnell. Dave Kilcoyne is becoming a key ballcarrier in the team.

Brewster

thomond2006 wrote: »

I assume his quad injury meant he couldn't kick, but I was desperately disappointed in Bleyendaal tonight. He wasn't helped by the service to him but he seemed to be content to shovel the ball out wide most of the night. It was far too easy for Leinster to defend out wide with the likes of Zebo living off scraps. Scannell is not the finished product (dreadful miss in the 1st half) but I'd have him starting in Belfast over Keatley or Bleyendaal right now.

The main positives were Earls' injury not appearing to be serious and the return of O'Donnell. Dave Kilcoyne is becoming a key ballcarrier in the team.

I think the boy Scannell has to start. I thought he had a decent game. Clearly Stander didn't have much faith in his goal kicking though. Munster had to kick a couple of those penalties this evening, kicker off form or not. Bleyendaal not ready for Belfast, Williams would target him every time. I thought he looked disinterested in making tackles tonight, I have no issue with 10s being bounced once they attempt to tackle. There were a couple of times tonight when I thought he went away from the tackle zone.

flouncer

Boriiiiiiiiiiiing

case885

thomond2006 wrote:

I assume his quad injury meant he couldn't kick, but I was desperately disappointed in Bleyendaal tonight. He wasn't helped by the service to him but he seemed to be content to shovel the ball out wide most of the night. It was far too easy for Leinster to defend out wide with the likes of Zebo living off scraps. Scannell is not the finished product (dreadful miss in the 1st half) but I'd have him starting in Belfast over Keatley or Bleyendaal right now.

As I said before the game there were big question marks over bleyendaals fitness and Scannell was the better option of the two, I think he was one of our best players tonight.
It was a bad call by Foley in a desperate bid to get bleyendaal up to speed.

thomond2006

case885 wrote: »

As I said before the game there were big question marks over bleyendaals fitness and Scannell was the better option of the two, I think he was one of our best players tonight.
It was a bad call by Foley in a desperate bid to get bleyendaal up to speed.

Yeah fair play, you called it right.

molloyjh

Should Scannell start at 10 or 12 though? He looked like he has a good bit of pace about him and the ability to break the line. So at 12 he looks very good. But does that mean he can run a back line from 10? That's a totally different prospect.

vienne86

Leinster

Away at the moment and watched the match on a shaky connection, but woke up feeling very pleased with Leinster win. But also woke up to find that Earls is OK - that is brilliant news.

Interested Observer

molloyjh wrote: »

Should Scannell start at 10 or 12 though? He looked like he has a good bit of pace about him and the ability to break the line. So at 12 he looks very good. But does that mean he can run a back line from 10? That's a totally different prospect.

Well we know Keatley can't so you might as well give him a go.

The 10 position at Munster seems to be filled by about 4 different players in a given match anyway.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

Connacht don't have the quality or depth of Munster.

I'm not sure there's that much in it really. Instinct and history would tend to have one think there must be a serious 1st division 2nd division gap between the squads. But Munster have really dropped. Talk of rebuilding, or a change of the guard from the ROG, POC,etc era as if it were only a matter of a few years to bring new young players into the squad and up to speed, has been wishful thinking rather than reality. Fundamenrally much of a muchness with Conaught at the minute, Lam doing a better job than Axel being the difference.
Leinster do have tge players. Ulster do have the players. Ulster probably have the coach as well. Leinster had 2 years of a coach taking them backwards. Jury out pn Leo for the moment but I dont have great hope for him.

aimee1

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Leinster do have tge players. Ulster do have the players. Ulster probably have the coach as well. Leinster had 2 years of a coach taking them backwards. Jury out pn Leo for the moment but I dont have great hope for him.

why not great hope for Leo?

Brewster

Interested Observer wrote: »

Well we know Keatley can't so you might as well give him a go.

The 10 position at Munster seems to be filled by about 4 different players in a given match anyway.

I think this sums up Munster's problem. You are having to throw a kid into a big match, in the hope he can control a game, simply because the established alternatives such as Keatley are not up to the job. It's probably not fair on Scannell to be perfectly honest.

mfceiling

I think that unfortunately Munster aren't a great team anymore. Back in their prime the other provinces would have swapped their own players for Munster ones without a thought.
Now?
POM and Murray (personally I wouldn't swop Pienaar).
I'd say most Ulster and Leinster fans look at Munster now and wouldn't fear facing them at all.
It's a shame because a strong Munster always equated to a strong Ireland.

aimee1

Neil Francis

aimee1 wrote: »

why not great hope for Leo?

Because there is absolutely nothing to base it on.

I mean, we hope that Leo will be a world class coach, but there is no reason at this point to expect that he will.

We're better than last season, but are we as good as we could be - not at all.

I think Leo does look like the makings of a good coach (potentially great) for what it's worth, just rather he got the training elsewhere. He was a very crafty player, but he is also academically a very bright individual which is a potentially prosperous mix for a coach.

aimee1

Deleted User wrote: »

Because there is absolutely nothing to base it on.

I mean, we hope that Leo will be a world class coach, but there is no reason at this point to expect that he will.

We're better than last season, but are we as good as we could be - not at all.

I think Leo does look like the makings of a good coach (potentially great) for what it's worth, just rather he got the training elsewhere. He was a very crafty player, but he is also academically a very bright individual which is a potentially prosperous mix for a coach.

Whoever he new coach was, would face the same issues that LC faced this season. Leinster have been very solid in the pro12, if far from spectacular but they are thereabouts in the table and in the last 3 games there has been some very good aspects of a team improving.

Europe has been a little bit disappointing even though my expectation wasnt particularly high

slingerz

Leinster

mfceiling wrote: »

I think that unfortunately Munster aren't a great team anymore. Back in their prime the other provinces would have swapped their own players for Munster ones without a thought.
Now?
POM and Murray (personally I wouldn't swop Pienaar).
I'd say most Ulster and Leinster fans look at Munster now and wouldn't fear facing them at all.
It's a shame because a strong Munster always equated to a strong Ireland.

I wouldn't swap Pienaar for Murray either.

But CJ stander gets in any team at the moment

aimee1

slingerz wrote: »

I wouldn't swap Pienaar for Murray either.

But CJ stander gets in any team at the moment

Ruddock, SOB, Heaslip at leinster. Thats an international backrow. For me Stander doesnt get into that backrow.

Losty Dublin

aimee1 wrote: »

Whoever he new coach was, would face the same issues that LC faced this season. Leinster have been very solid in the pro12, if far from spectacular but they are thereabouts in the table and in the last 3 games there has been some very good aspects of a team improving.

Europe has been a little bit disappointing even though my expectation wasnt particularly high

I'm actually chuffed to see that somebody else has seen this. Leinster are coming from a place of multiple trophy winning seasons to a place where they lost a genial coach and several critical players pretty much overnight. It will come back but the mistakes need to be made; give Leo time and it will come good.