Breastfeeding Mom in restaurant stare off...

Yeah_Right

Kev W wrote: »

By that same token:

"Oh no! someone is feeding their child! I must make sure that they know that I do not approve! It is absolutely my business how people feed their children!"

Cool. Glad we both agree that they are both morons and should just get on with their day.

Yeah_Right

eviltwin wrote: »

When you are a nursing mother that is their primary function. Especially when you have a child who is hungry and getting cross. A woman on a plane can't exactly do much else but feed the child can she? What's more offensive to you, a glimpse of breast or a screaming baby?

The screaming baby. Definitely the screaming baby is way more offensive. I don't care if the mother has to get completely nude as long as she stops the baby screaming. Especially on a plane or anywhere else I'm trapped with them.

Samaris

It is a tad unfair to assume (although I freely admit I didn't read the article, so if it was a stunt, well, fair enough to complain) that she was attention-seeking or looking for someone to be offended so she could glare just because she noticed someone. I rather suspect that if I'd been breastfeeding for a while, I would be inclined to do the normal eyeballing out a window, looking at things that attract my attention (without staring at people!) and indeed probably still pick up when someone's scowling at me or making gestures at me. One does get that prickle at the back of their neck if they feel someone eyeballing them. Well, unless one is off in their own little world, which admittedly does happen to me too.

The long and short of it is that we only have this woman's account to go by, and I don't find it particularly unbelievable. I've had conversations with people breastfeeding and found it no different to if they're rocking a child or burping it. It's just one of those things.

It's also a tad victim-blaming to insist that the victim of the unwanted attention -should- just rise above it. Of course we all prefer to think we rise above other people's rudeness, but in truth, I'm sure we've all had occasions where something in our brain goes "enough is enough" and either made a comment, or eyed back, or otherwise indicated in some way that the unwanted attention has been noted and is being considered to be very bad-mannered.

osarusan

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If she chooses to breastfeed in public, she's already considering herself over other people, and I don't have any issue with that, because she has to feed her child. It's when she decided to look around to see who's looking at her, and then engages in a stare-off, that I would say she was attention seeking. She needn't have bothered getting into a staring match, and you can come back and say the other woman shouldn't have been staring at her, but we can only control our own behaviour, we can't realistically control the thoughts and behaviour of other people around us.

So she just went into the cafe with no attention-seeking motives? She did nothing inconsiderate until after the woman stared at her?

And therefore your entire argument that is premised on 'if you are inconsiderate of others, you lose the right to complain when they are inconsiderate to you' is rendered irrelevant as she had done nothing inconsiderate and hadn't lost the right to be upset by the staring.

Samaris

Aha, that article I linked a few pages back turns out to be a hoax story. Okay-doke, I hold up my hands when I'm incorrect!

There have been some rather rotten incidents against parents breastfeeding their children though. I can only say I'm relieved that that wasn't one of them!

Kev W

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Seriously, why do you keep shifting user's argument regarding certain women, to being about how all women? You are deliberately trying to suggest that people have an issue will public breastfeeding, period, why do you keep doing this? Wouldn't be because it's easier for you to do so than actually try and address points being made. Frame your retorts in such a manner and you might come across as wanting to have a discussion rather than just get your scalp.



I have just made it clear to you that in and of itself, it's not. Like I said, if they want to start a public exhibitionist website, let them at it, I'll check it out but when you use your children as part of that attention seeking, it's contemptible. That goes not just for the woman in the OP, but also all the way from appearing in Channel 4 docus (or other media on extending breastfeeding) to making overtly sexual YouTube videos regarding the same. Get the attention you crave on your own. No need to exploit your children in the process.

Are you reading my posts from another dimension? I never said a word about "all women" even in the part you quoted!

You're making all kinds of assumptions and wild accusations and frankly I'm not going to bother with your nonsense anymore.

One eyed Jack

osarusan wrote: »

So she just went into the cafe with no attention-seeking motives?

It's hard to say IMO, but given that she thinks she was making a stand on behalf of women everywhere who breastfeed, I wouldn't put it past her to have thought she was conducting some "social experiment" to make a point. Remember that "10 hours in NYC" video? Those sorts of things can tend to make a person very cynical of a person's motives.

She did nothing inconsiderate until after the woman stared at her?

Hard to say if she was even being stared at without evidence, a photograph would have done, and no, I have no reason just to take her word for it when it's clear from the photo she was going for maximum exposure (no pun intended), not for breastfeeding in public, but for staring another woman down.

(What she was hoping to achieve by that, other than confrontation, is beyond me tbh, as we don't even see the other woman in the pic, just other diners around her who have no interest in her)

And therefore your entire argument that is premised on 'if you are inconsiderate of others, you lose the right to complain when they are inconsiderate to you' is rendered irrelevant as she had done nothing inconsiderate and hadn't lost the right to be upset by the staring.

Judging by her attitude, it's safe to assume IMO that she had no consideration for anyone else but herself, even going so far as to have her friend take a picture of her staring another woman down so she could post it on her social media page, or her blog another poster mentioned or whatever. She never had the right in the first place to be upset by someone staring, because they're not actually doing anything to her. It's intimidating, and it's rude, and it's unnecessary, but like the woman choosing to breastfeed in public - it's not illegal.

I'd have every sympathy for a woman whom I thought didn't set out to draw unwanted attention to herself, but this particular woman IMO, isn't that woman. She's anything but the poster girl for breastfeeding she thinks she is IMO, and the women who have contributed to this thread and given their own experiences of breastfeeding have done more to educate people and promote breastfeeding IMO than this woman has done by making herself the focus of attention.



In my opinion of course (I really shouldn't have to premise or finish every post with that, it should be understood).

wakka12

Obviously for attention, we all know having your tit out is a bit inappropriate despite it being used to feed a child. If one of my family members did it Id be embarassed, but its up to people if they want to. Im not going to stare at them or make them feel bad about it, its fine, I think of it the same way I would seeing somebody pick their nose in public. Don't particularly recommend but doesn't offend either

Neyite

Breastfeeding is brilliant tbh. And some of the science behind it is fascinating.

Breastmilk:

• Helps a mother heal quicker post partum, and helps her lose the baby weight quicker.
• Saves thousands on infant formula.
• Babies crying stimulates milk production. If a baby cries, its mother starts to leak milk. Babies will go through phases of fussyness and crying more just prior to a growth spurt, which will increase milk supply so that there is supply there to meet demand.
• Produces a feel-good hormone in both baby and mother and helps sleep.
• Is unique to every single woman, and differs at different times of the day too.
• It also differs from newborn to toddler, delivering tailored nutrition.
• Has two parts to it - foremilk which is watery and thirst quenching, then hindmilk which is richer and fattier and fills the baby up.
• A woman only produces as much or as little as she needs.

bee06

I have to say this thread is fascinating. When I saw the blog in the OP when it came up on my Facebook last week my first thought was a cynical one. I never thought it would generate 40 odd pages of discussion because to me breastfeeding is just a natural thing most women do when they have a baby. I'm the oldest of five and my mom breastfeed us all so it never struck me as unusual or embarrassing etc. To have someone liken it to picking your nose in public is a bizarre statement to me.

To the men who find it embarrassing or weird I'm curious to know how you would feel if/when the mother of your child was breastfeeding?

lazygal

bee06 wrote: »

To the men who find it embarrassing or weird I'm curious to know how you would feel if/when the mother of your child was breastfeeding?

My husband has said before I was breastfeeding, he would have thought things like 'if you're old enough to ask for it, time to give it up' and that people feeding a toddler were a bit weird. But now he's seen all the benefits for us and our children he's a huge breastfeeding advocate.

One eyed Jack

bee06 wrote: »

I have to say this thread is fascinating. When I saw the blog in the OP when it came up on my Facebook last week my first thought was a cynical one. I never thought it would generate 40 odd pages of discussion because to me breastfeeding is just a natural thing most women do when they have a baby. I'm the oldest of five and my mom breastfeed us all so it never struck me as unusual or embarrassing etc. To have someone liken it to picking your nose in public is a bizarre statement to me.

To the men who find it embarrassing or weird I'm curious to know how you would feel if/when the mother of your child was breastfeeding?

I'm more curious to know how would you phrase that question given that according to the woman in the article, it was another woman who she claims looked at her with disgust.

I don't know if it can really be said it's the most natural thing most women do when they have a baby as clearly there are many women (including the woman in the article) who seem to have great difficulty with breastfeeding.

I think there are definitely ways of having open discussions about breastfeeding to dispel some of the myths and misguided notions about breastfeeding, but the overwhelming feeling that this woman was just engaging in a bit of self-promotion is one that I just can't get out of my head tbh.

People objecting to women breastfeeding in public is pretty rare in my experience, obviously even more rare than women who actually choose to breastfeed in public, and I think personally, that has more to do with women themselves simply being too shy to breastfeed in public because they think other people are going to be looking at them.

The woman in the article did nothing to dispel this myth, in fact all she did was reinforce it IMO.

mynameis905

wakka12 wrote: »

Obviously for attention, we all know having your tit out is a bit inappropriate despite it being used to feed a child. If one of my family members did it Id be embarassed, but its up to people if they want to. Im not going to stare at them or make them feel bad about it, its fine, I think of it the same way I would seeing somebody pick their nose in public. Don't particularly recommend but doesn't offend either

No it's not. Grow up ffs.

lazygal

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don't know if it can really be said it's the most natural thing most women do when they have a baby as clearly there are many women (including the woman in the article) who seem to have great difficulty with breastfeeding.

Why do you think 'natural' means 'easy'? Giving birth is natural, but far from easy for many. I found breastfeeding tougher than recovery from my c section first time around. I had a lot of difficulties, but I am so glad I worked through them and was able to cope much more easily second time around.

Hammer89

I've had my cousin whip her tit out in my living room before and it made me extremely uncomfortable. I've got no problems with the act itself, but given that it was just the three of us in a small enough room, she could've asked if it would be okay.

lazygal

Hammer89 wrote: »

I've had my cousin whip her tit out in my living room before and it made me extremely uncomfortable. I've got no problems with the act itself, but given that it was just the three of us in a small enough room, she could've asked if it would be okay.

Would someone who was bottle feeding have to ask if it was ok?

mynameis905

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I wouldn't put it past her to have thought she was conducting some "social experiment" to make a point.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I have no reason just to take her word for it when it's clear from the photo she was going for maximum exposure

One eyed Jack wrote: »

by her attitude, it's safe to assume IMO that she had no consideration for anyone else but herself

This is your classic posting style isn't it? Refuse to discuss the issue at hand and instead go off on a tangent about how you really don't like 'attention seekers' and try to discredit the source as much as you possibly can.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don't know if it can really be said it's the most natural thing most women do when they have a baby as clearly there are many women (including the woman in the article) who seem to have great difficulty with breastfeeding.

Another sly little dig at breastfeeding. "I've no problem with breastfeeding but is it really the most natural?"

Of course it's the most natural way of feeding an infant. The female body has evolved and developed mammary glands for the express purpose of feeding. It wasn't until the 1920s that formula milk became widely used.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think there are definitely ways of having open discussions about breastfeeding to dispel some of the myths and misguided notions about breastfeeding

We're having a discussion but most of the myths and misguided notions on this thread are coming from your posts.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Pretty much every woman I've been around who's breastfed did so without making a song and a dance and a feminist statement. It's natural, it's good for the baby, this business of semi smothering the child as its being fed is unfair as is expecting a small baby to be fed in a bathroom.
However, show a little bit of decorum for your surroundings. It can be absolutely done discreetly without impacting your or your babies comfort. Why not make an effort to make everyone feel comfortable within reason?

One eyed Jack

lazygal wrote: »

Why do you think 'natural' means 'easy'? Giving birth is natural, but far from easy for many. I found breastfeeding tougher than recovery from my c section first time around. I had a lot of difficulties, but I am so glad I worked through them and was able to cope much more easily second time around.

I think lazygal in fairness most people would interpret something that is said to be natural to come easy to someone, in this context the assumption is that breastfeeding being natural means it's easy for most women. We're actually making the same point, but in different ways, and I already posted my wife's experience of her difficulties with breastfeeding and all around her people saying "most natural thing in the world", which made her feel like a failure as a mother because she couldn't do it, and every time she tried and failed, it only made her feel worse because for something that's supposed to be so natural, clearly for some people, it's anything but.

I'm not even going to comment on the birth tbh, jaysus even remembering it made me shudder there tbh! That's one I'd have preferred to stay outside the delivery room for, but I figured it's the "done thing" nowadays for the father to be present. It really wasn't necessary for me to be in the room, at all! I'd have much preferred to be outside smoking a cigar tbh :pac:

Hammer89

lazygal wrote: »

Would someone who was bottle feeding have to ask if it was ok?

Not unless she planned on doing it naked.

lazygal

Hammer89 wrote: »

Not unless she planned on doing it naked.

Why? Feeding a child is feeding a child, surely? As an aside, skin to skin contact is extremely helpful for newborns.

I am so happy my children see breastfeeding as a normal thing not even worthy of comment.

lazygal

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Pretty much every woman I've been around who's breastfed did so without making a song and a dance and a feminist statement. It's natural, it's good for the baby, this business of semi smothering the child as its being fed is unfair as is expecting a small baby to be fed in a bathroom.
However, show a little bit of decorum for your surroundings. It can be absolutely done discreetly without impacting your or your babies comfort. Why not make an effort to make everyone feel comfortable within reason?

What do you mean by decorum? How, exactly, should a woman who is breastfeeding in a different manner to someone who is bottle feeding?

greenorchard

Hammer89 wrote: »

I've had my cousin whip her tit out in my living room before and it made me extremely uncomfortable. I've got no problems with the act itself, but given that it was just the three of us in a small enough room, she could've asked if it would be okay.

What would you have said if she'd asked if it was ok? I've never & would never ask for someone's permission to breastfeed in front of them.

seamus

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I was never breastfed, well not as a kid anyway. My Ma tells me it wasn't the done thing in those days.

Breastfeeding was considered unseemly for the aristocracy. That was "common" behaviour which you hired a wet nurse for. When powdered milk and formula became a thing, it was strongly marketed on a background of snobbery and, "be like the rich ladies, this is the next best thing to a wet nurse".

To a certain extent it was also considered a triumph of modern man - several companies produced "scientific" studies proving that babies on formula did just as well as on the breast. Previously, babies who weren't breastfed tended to be small and sickly. This new technology was man beating nature and making life easier.

It also helped the religious conservative narrative to not have women whipping boobs out all over the place and inflaming the passions of poor powerless men.

Ironically it was in the wealthier homes that breastfeeding made a resurgence as many thought that using formula was "common" and less motherly.

Surely there have been studies of adults who were and were not? Would be an interesting read.

Afaik, the vast bulk of studies show a health and nutritional improvements in the breast, but practically no difference in mental well-being.

Hammer89

greenorchard wrote: »

What would you have said if she'd asked if it was ok? I've never & would never ask for someone's permission to breastfeed in front of them.

Even if it was in front of your younger male cousin? If so then fair enough. I'm not judging. I just thought it was weird. If it were me, I couldn't lift one out and let the baby do its thing without asking or at least giving some sort of warning. I'd try to be as sensitive as possible.

deseil

lazygal wrote: »

What do you mean by decorum? How, exactly, should a woman who is breastfeeding in a different manner to someone who is bottle feeding?

Because a bottle isnt a body part that is not usually on show. I breastfed and always did so discreetly.
I never would have dreamed to just whip out my boob in full view of anyone. Its a body part that is normaly covered and I dont see the fact that it is being used to feed a baby changes that,so of course it makes people uncomfortable.

greenorchard

Hammer89 wrote: »

Even if it was in front of your younger male cousin? If so then fair enough. I'm not judging. I just thought it was weird. If it were me, I couldn't lift one out and let the baby do its thing without asking or at least giving some sort of warning. I'd try to be as sensitive as possible.

I've fed in front of a few male relatives, though I always feed by pulling my top up so you'd see very little anyway. Even that seems to make some people uncomfortable though. I met a few friends for lunch at the weekend & fed my baby at one stage. I noticed one of the girls completely avoided eye contact or looking at me at all while I fed even though you couldn't see a thing!

bee06

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm more curious to know how would you phrase that question given that according to the woman in the article, it was another woman who she claims looked at her with disgust.

I have doubts about whether that disgusted woman actually exists but it's a fair point and I did think about that when I was phrasing my question but I was more interested in responses from men who seem uncomfortable with the idea especially the poster who likened breastfeeding to picking your nose and potentially how they reacted/changed their mind when their partner was breastfeeding and that's what prompted me to direct it at the male posters.

lazza14

Always amazes me how in American society a breastfeeding woman is considered bad for children to look at, yet violence on TV is perfectly ok ...

One eyed Jack

lazza14 wrote: »

Always amazes me how in American society a breastfeeding woman is considered bad for children to look at, yet violence on TV is perfectly ok ...

It doesn't amaze me at all that some people will make generalised sweeping statements about a society of 315 million people who are a whole mixture of cultures, ethnicities, customs and values, but yeah, breastfeeding is a no no while violence on tv is grand...

Someone's been spending too much time exposed to a particular narrative might be given to thinking that alright.