Who will succeed Johnny Sexton

Utah_Saint · 31-01-2016 10:15pm

awec wrote: »

These threads are always good fun cause you'll come back in about 5 years time and discover two things:

1. The young academy guys that everyone raves about as the next big thing haven't actually made it as a professional, or never lived up to the hype
2. The guys that everyone writes off or declares "will never be as good as x" actually turn out to be really good.

I am sure if you dug up posts about Sexton when he was in his early 20s plenty of people would have written him off as nothing special. These things are very difficult to predict.

yes.

I remember Sexton at Jackson's age and thinking we are in trouble when O'Gara retires....

Pink Fairy · 31-01-2016 10:32pm

aimee1 wrote: »

Is Bleyendaal a project player?

You're learning!

And he is

aimee1 · 31-01-2016 10:32pm

Pink Fairy wrote: »

You're learning!

And he is

problem solved :eek:

Podge_irl · 31-01-2016 11:05pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I was at the match and I groaned!

Was a big fan of Sexton, was saying that we looked our best when he replaced Felipe at the end of matches, but I was convinced he couldn't kick (particularly after the 2008 Churchiil Cup) and I thought the occasion would get to him!

I believe I'm on record as wanting sexton to start that game ahead of Conters.

#propheticgenius

CatFromHue · 31-01-2016 11:30pm

Just looked up how old Paddy Jackson is and he's only just gone 24!

JJ will be 24 in the Summer
Madigan will be 27 in March
Marsh has also just gone 24
Carty will be 24 in August
Keatley will be 29 in April

You forget how young PJ really is!

irishbucsfan · 31-01-2016 11:42pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Just looked up how old Paddy Jackson is and he's only just gone 24!

JJ will be 24 in the Summer
Madigan will be 27 in March
Marsh has also just gone 24
Carty will be 24 in August
Keatley will be 29 in April

You forget how young PJ really is!

I'll always remember his age because he was in the 20s team for the Aviva opener:

LEINSTER/ULSTER: S Coghlan Murray (Leinster); C Gilroy (Ulster), A Kelly (Leinster), L Marshall (Ulster) Capt, A Boyle (Leinster); P Jackson (Ulster), P du Toit (Leinster); J Tracy (Leinster), J Murphy (Ulster), M Moore (Leinster); I Henderson (Ulster), R Hynes (Leinster); S Lecky (Ulster), M McGroarty (Leinster), D McGuigan (Ulster).

Replacements: M Fallon (Leinster) for Hynes (46), P Marks (Ulster) for Henderson, A Warrick for Lecky (both h/t), C Spence for du Toit, C Marsh for Jackson (both 55), P Carroll for McGroarty (56), M McAuley for Coghlan Murray (65).

A great side

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 31-01-2016 11:43pm

^Ulster must have had an incredible Academy side for a few years.

bilston · 31-01-2016 11:52pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

^Ulster must have had an incredible Academy side for a few years.

Not really as they all got promoted to the senior squad at a young age.

5 internationals in that team (Moore, Henderson, Jackson, Marshall and Gilroy) and who knows maybe Tracy will be capped one day. Warwick is a regular in the Ulster match day squad and Marsh has a few Leinster caps under his belt.

Of the players that didn't make it, I am most disappointed about Leckey and McGuigan. They were two really good talents at a young age. Leckey in particular looked a top back row prospect.

As for the out half debate, I don't think Olding's kicking would be consistent enough for out half. Even last night when he was allegedly playing 10, I would say that Luke Marshall spent as much time as Olding at first receiver. It was actually quite an interesting dynamic to watch and we'll see how it develops. It was better than having Humphreys at 10 anyway.

As for OP question, unless someone else emerges out of the blue, maybe Ross Byrne, Sexton's successor will be Paddy Jackson.

The Lost Sheep · 01-02-2016 12:17am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'll always remember his age because he was in the 20s team for the Aviva opener:

A great side

Great side. Less said about Munster part of Munster-Connacht the better. Only Jonny Holland and Shane Buckley still pros. Connacht at least have 4/5 players from that group...

CatFromHue · 01-02-2016 12:37am

In hindsight it was a bad match up and they should have had a Leinster and Munster mix with Ebony and Ivory as the walk out music

Billysays no · 01-02-2016 1:29am

Kim kardashian? There is a sexy element to rugby that Jonny is not supplying.

Buer · 01-02-2016 9:24am

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

^Ulster must have had an incredible Academy side for a few years.

Great back line. Pack, aside from Henderson, was poor. Ulster A and academy sides are quite weak generally due to the lack of forward production.

bilston · 01-02-2016 11:20am

Buer wrote: »

Great back line. Pack, aside from Henderson, was poor. Ulster A and academy sides are quite weak generally due to the lack of forward production.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that Stephen Lecky in that side should have gone on to bigger things, I don't know what happened, maybe he had no interest or he got injured, or he decided to concentrate on something else but he seemed as good a prospect as Henderson at the time.

The other thing is that Les Kiss seems prepared to give the young forwards a go, we've seen McCall (who I think could play for Ireland), and O'Connor come in and become first choice players and on Saturday Lorcan Dow made his debut and did very well, so in the space of less than 4 months Kiss seems to have uncovered three new forwards for us. It makes you wonder who else is out there.

Back to the thread subject and I've heard good things about Johnny McPhillips in the Ulster Academy, he is in the Irish U20s squad this year so we'll see if he starts for them and how he goes.

Billysays no · 10-02-2016 3:57am

CatFromHue wrote: »

Just looked up how old Paddy Jackson is and he's only just gone 24!

JJ will be 24 in the Summer
Madigan will be 27 in March
Marsh has also just gone 24
Carty will be 24 in August
Keatley will be 29 in April

You forget how young PJ really is!

And the guy left out?
Craig Ronaldson, kicking stats at the top end of the pro12, physically better built and more imposing than any of the players listed, defensively proven as far above the listed names. In other words a dead cert. So off with ye lads and discuss the might have beens

Buer · 10-02-2016 4:05am

Billysays no wrote:

And the guy left out? Craig Ronaldson, kicking stats at the top end of the pro12, physically better built and more imposing than any of the players listed, defensively proven as far above the listed names. In other words a dead cert. So off with ye lads and discuss the might have beens

This is the same guy who plays 12 to accommodate Jack Carty, right? Or I'd there another Craig Ronaldson who actually is all the things you listed?

Billysays no · 10-02-2016 4:22am

Buer wrote: »

This is the same guy who plays 12 to accommodate Jack Carty, right? Or I'd there another Craig Ronaldson who actually is all the things you listed?

tiz just an accommodation. allows all the other lads to make a right ass of it (and boy are they doing that) before he takes his rightful position

Pink Fairy · 10-02-2016 7:36am

Isnt Jack Carty out for months now after rupturing his spleen?

aimee1 · 10-02-2016 9:47am

Billysays no wrote: »

tiz just an accommodation. allows all the other lads to make a right ass of it (and boy are they doing that) before he takes his rightful position

Connachts ian madigan so, getting shunted around the backline

RobbieRuns · 10-02-2016 12:20pm

I wish he was Ian Madigan.........

awec · 10-02-2016 12:31pm

Ronaldson has as much chance of playing for Ireland as I do.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 10-02-2016 12:50pm

Just noticed when watching the Leinster School's Cup match yesterday between Clongowes and Monkstown neither team had their 10 kicking for them. Clongowes #12 took theirs and Monkstown's Jack Grealish looking 9 was taking theirs. Terenure also had their 9 kicking for them the other day.

Obviously I'm not saying any of these guys are going to make it at Provincial level, never mind international level, but it would be no bad thing to have a choice of kicker on the pitch at any one time.

rsh118 · 10-02-2016 2:15pm

All the Js; JJ or Jackson, both of whom can get a back line shifting. I definitely think Munster went for the safe option in Keatley, and should have put the house on JJ.

Jackson I'd say is most likely in the long term. Looks a hard worker and barring a few Instagram brain farts seems to have a sensible head on his shoulders. Everything he can learn from Sexton will be valuable.

I see real similarities between Johnny and Paddy in terms of two players who have always been able to get a back line moving dynamically, whilst being real confidence kickers (Johnny more so when he was younger).

The future's bright, lads.

Podge_irl · 10-02-2016 2:18pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Obviously I'm not saying any of these guys are going to make it at Provincial level, never mind international level, but it would be no bad thing to have a choice of kicker on the pitch at any one time.

Plenty of current internationals were goal kickers in days past. The problem is they completely stop doing it when they reach provincial level.

The Lost Sheep · 10-02-2016 2:23pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Just noticed when watching the Leinster School's Cup match yesterday between Clongowes and Monkstown neither team had their 10 kicking for them. Clongowes #12 took theirs and Monkstown's Jack Grealish looking 9 was taking theirs. Terenure also had their 9 kicking for them the other day.

Obviously I'm not saying any of these guys are going to make it at Provincial level, never mind international level, but it would be no bad thing to have a choice of kicker on the pitch at any one time.

There is a huge number of age grade sides who don't have their 10 place kicking for them. But as Podge says when they go up the grades they stop as others take over the obligations.
Cant remember but was it woodward when coach of England/lions who always had at least 2/3 options to kick at goal on pitch as much as possible?

rsh118 · 10-02-2016 2:26pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There is a huge number of age grade sides who don't have their 10 place kicking for them. But as Podge says when they go up the grades they stop as others take over the obligations.
Cant remember but was it woodward when coach of England/lions who always had at least 2/3 options to kick at goal on pitch as much as possible?

It sucks too because we know it's a cultural thing. So many things are set in stone in rugby due to tradition etc, it's been refreshing to see how tactics and positional play have begun to be mixed up and roles blurred lately.

Buer · 10-02-2016 2:28pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Just noticed when watching the Leinster School's Cup match yesterday between Clongowes and Monkstown neither team had their 10 kicking for them. Clongowes #12 took theirs and Monkstown's Jack Grealish looking 9 was taking theirs. Terenure also had their 9 kicking for them the other day.

Obviously I'm not saying any of these guys are going to make it at Provincial level, never mind international level, but it would be no bad thing to have a choice of kicker on the pitch at any one time.

It's extremely common at underage level for another position to be taking the kicks at goal. It's quite often simply a case that the best back on the team is the best goal kicker.

Ringrose and Luke McGrath were both exceptional goal kickers at underage level. McGrath nailed a kick for Ireland to win the U18 European title from around halfway, I recall and Ringrose's SCT stats were obscenely good.

Unfortunately, as soon as they play a higher level, the outhalf starts taking the kicks and it all falls by the wayside. Irish rugby is littered with guys who were very good goal kickers once upon a time.

irishbucsfan · 10-02-2016 2:36pm

Buer wrote: »

It's extremely common at underage level for another position to be taking the kicks at goal. It's quite often simply a case that the best back on the team is the best goal kicker.

Ringrose and Luke McGrath were both exceptional goal kickers at underage level. McGrath nailed a kick for Ireland to win the U18 European title from around halfway, I recall and Ringrose's SCT stats were obscenely good.

Unfortunately, as soon as they play a higher level, the outhalf starts taking the kicks and it all falls by the wayside. Irish rugby is littered with guys who were very good goal kickers once upon a time.

Ireland could start a backline full of goalkickers that wouldn't be too shabby. Murray, Kearneys, Sexton, McFadden, McCloskey. Luke Marshall as well maybe? Not certain on him.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 10-02-2016 2:47pm

Interesting.

I suppose you're always going to defer to the best kicker and if he's your 10 he's your 10 but surely it makes sense to keep other talented kickers kicking as much as the 10 after training etc. where possible.

Ireland in particular seem to have this problem with 10's kicking and then when you want a replacement 10 to come along his kicking is almost more important than his ability to play the position.

rsh118 · 10-02-2016 2:56pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Interesting.

I suppose you're always going to defer to the best kicker and if he's your 10 he's your 10 but surely it makes sense to keep other talented kickers kicking as much as the 10 after training etc. where possible.

Ireland in particular seem to have this problem with 10's kicking and then when you want a replacement 10 to come along his kicking is almost more important than his ability to play the position.

This is so true. I always think back to PJs debut against Scotland where the way we moved had me as excited as I'd ever been in green.

Then the kicking doubts came in. It is definitely hard to develop a plethora of kickers with 4 pro teams at your disposal. I suppose we can continue to dream...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 10-02-2016 3:12pm

rsh118 wrote: »

This is so true. I always think back to PJs debut against Scotland where the way we moved had me as excited as I'd ever been in green.

Then the kicking doubts came in. It is definitely hard to develop a plethora of kickers with 4 pro teams at your disposal. I suppose we can continue to dream...

And even if guys are practicing in training you can't recreate a match situation in training and they may never get to kick in a match so it's almost impossible.

Just at the moment, when it comes to Ireland, you're looking at one player having to kick whether they're having a good day or not. When Sexton came back to Leinster first after the WC he took the very first kick, in front of the posts, then didn't take any more kicks for maybe two more matches. Which was fine at Leinster, they had options, if that was the 6 Nations we'd be in trouble.

Who will succeed Johnny Sexton

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