Who will succeed Johnny Sexton

dtpc191991

With mounting injuries a current lack of form and the fact that he is 30 it is starting to look like Johnny Sexton will not be a room around come 2019. What that in mind we should be beginning to plan for a sucessor. However there are no obvious candidates it seems the possible sucessors have big issues in their game.

Ian Madigan makes basic errors in his game mangement such as throwing passes that are not on, looking for the break himself which can often slow down attacking moves and his tactical kicking game isn't accurate enough for international level.

Paddy Jackson runs the backline very well and has a good tactical kicking game when on form however his form is inconsistant and he does not get enough gametime as a kicker of the tee to inspire confidence at the top level.

JJ Hanrahan of the three showed the most promise at underage level but this has not been replicated since he stepped up to the professional game and so far he has spent most of his career to date at two clubs, warming the bench.

Apart from the above three is there anyone at underage level or in the academies who is putting their hand up??

Stan27

dtpc191991 wrote: »

With mounting injuries a current lack of form and the fact that he is 30 it is starting to look like Johnny Sexton will not be a room around come 2019. What that in mind we should be beginning to plan for a sucessor. However there are no obvious candidates it seems the possible sucessors have big issues in their game.

Ian Madigan makes basic errors in his game mangement such as throwing passes that are not on, looking for the break himself which can often slow down attacking moves and his tactical kicking game isn't accurate enough for international level.

Paddy Jackson runs the backline very well and has a good tactical kicking game when on form however his form is inconsistant and he does not get enough gametime as a kicker of the tee to inspire confidence at the top level.

JJ Hanrahan of the three showed the most promise at underage level but this has not been replicated since he stepped up to the professional game and so far he has spent most of his career to date at two clubs, warming the bench.

Apart from the above three is there anyone at underage level or in the academies who is putting their hand up??

Jack carthy playing well 😊

techdiver

"If", Jackson is the best 10 from a game management and tactical kicking point of view, then he should be the guy.

There are plenty of other players that can take over the place kicking duties. We have a serious obsession in Ireland that the 10 has to be the goal kicker. It doesn't matter a flying **** who kicks (1 - 15) as long as they go over.

vienne86

Jackson for me. But he needs a good run without injury.

bilston

I think Jackson is probably the most likely but he could do with losing his South African security blanket (not something I want to see from an Ulster perspective).

If I were Madigan I would concentrate on 12, I think he could be excellent there.

JJ needs to be starting for Northampton. At least Madigan is losing out to the current Irish 10 and most recent Lions 10. JJ is behind Meyler who is solid but little more.

Ross Byrne looked a great talent at U20 level but think he struggled when he played for Leinster earlier in the season, but there seems to be something to work with there.

martyos121

Jackson in the short term you would think, but Ross Byrne is one to watch. He could be Ireland's top fly-half for the 2019 World Cup if he lives up to the promise.

evil_seed

Jack Carty

Hagz

I can't see any of the starting 10's in the other provinces succeeding Sexton, nor can I see Madigan succeeding him either. For me it's either JJ Hanrahan or someone currently in the academies.

Teferi

Barring career ending injury then I would bet my house that Sexton will be in the squad come 2019.

dtpc191991

bilston wrote: »

I think Jackson is probably the most likely but he could do with losing his South African security blanket (not something I want to see from an Ulster perspective).

If I were Madigan I would concentrate on 12, I think he could be excellent there.

JJ needs to be starting for Northampton. At least Madigan is losing out to the current Irish 10 and most recent Lions 10. JJ is behind Meyler who is solid but little more.

Ross Byrne looked a great talent at U20 level but think he struggled when he played for Leinster earlier in the season, but there seems to be something to work with there.

Yeah I agree and I do think Madigan would make a great 12. He reminds of Giteaux in that respect, can do a job at 10 but his skills are much better suited to 12.

dtpc191991

Carty is a good call It's too early to tell yet. It is between him Jackson and him atm though. Byrne lke JJ has shown promise but will need to be starting regularlly at the top level to develop his game which could happen if Madigan leaves Leinster. That is providing they don't bring in another NIQ or use Necewa as first choice back up during the International window. Hopefully JJ will get a run at 10 soon because I still think the possibility is there for him.

its_phil

Jackson, JJ and then Byrne. I think Byrne is going to be world class.

No pressure though.

swiwi_

A project player.

Just to be different and spice the thread up...

hogandrew

4 years is a long time. Paddy Jackson is not very consistent as a kicker but his kicking is at times wonderful so there's plenty to work on. Ross Byrne wasn't great earlier in the season but I think Boss tried to take over a little too many duties from him on his start so I wouldn't read too much into that.

They'd be the 2 I'd see with having the possibility of getting to a really top level. Madigan, JJ, Carthy I can't see getting to them levels.

I think with Sexton being such a special player that it may not be a bad idea for him to take time out similar to what carter did.

phog

Isn't Tyler Bleyendaal a project player, he could be in the mix yet.

S12b

Watching the under 20 6 nations this year, I said Ross Byrne is Ireland's next 10....I'm not saying it will happen in the next 18 months or anything but long term I think he has what it takes to perform at the highest level.

former total

swiwi_ wrote: »

A project player.

Just to be different and spice the thread up...

Might be the best option. Madigan is the current best but not top level, Jackson isn't kicking on, JJ is going backwards and it's way too early to judge Byrne.

A good project might be very tempting.

Podge_irl

Of the current options, Jackson is the best fly half. He's not kicked on quite like I hoped he would though.

I would imagine there is a reasonable chance the replacement is not obvious at this point. I don't see Sexton going anywhere in the next few years really.

Hagz

yeah on second though Tyler Bleyendaal seems the most realistic.

Triumvirate

bilston wrote: »

JJ needs to be starting for Northampton. At least Madigan is losing out to the current Irish 10 and most recent Lions 10. JJ is behind Meyler who is solid but little more.

Myler is rated in Ireland in the same way that Alex King was. He's a very straightforward, unflashy outhalf but if he was Irish he'd be starting in a province and in the Irish set up.

English rugby has fallen foul of continuously looking for the next Jonny Wilkinson, insisting on promoting an exciting young player to the jersey (Cipriani, Ford, Farrell, Flood) but in Myler they've a really solid player who is dismissed as a league convert who didn't break into the Saints team until he was 24 at which point the ship has sailed it appears as an outhalf in England.

Hanrahan could learn loads from him. However, to be honest, I don't think Hanrahan has the mental side of the game in a similar fashion to Madigan. I'd back Jackson or Ross Byrne in the long term ahead of either; both offer a more controlling, less erratic influence.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

Isn't Tyler Bleyendaal a project player, he could be in the mix yet.

10. Tyler B
12. Aki
13. Te'o
14. GvdH

Utopia Parkway

S12b wrote: »

Watching the under 20 6 nations this year, I said Ross Byrne is Ireland's next 10....I'm not saying it will happen in the next 18 months or anything but long term I think he has what it takes to perform at the highest level.

Not a bad shout although he's probably a good few years away yet given who's still ahead of him at Leinster, let alone Ireland.

Robbo

swiwi_ wrote: »

A project player.

Just to be different and spice the thread up...

Stander it is. If his wife is down with the change of position.

Tomtom364

CatFromHue wrote: »

10. Tyler B
12. Aki
13. Te'o
14. GvdH

15. Payne

CMOTDibbler

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Yeah I agree and I do think Madigan would make a great 12. He reminds of Giteaux in that respect, can do a job at 10 but his skills are much better suited to 12.

Think you're confusing your Gateaux with your Giteau

dtpc191991

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Think you're confusing your Gateaux with your Giteau

I indeed. am haha. I did not notice. xD

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

10. Tyler B
12. Aki
13. Te'o
14. GvdH

Probably going to be missing a few but we could field a selection from Ah You, White, Herbst, Strauss, Herring, Quinn Roux, CJ, Bleyendaal, Aki, Teo, GdvH and Payne.

Some of those might be here under grandparent rule or whatever allowed Boss, Court, Bent etc, play for Ireland.

Beechwoodspark

Surely Jonny has at least 5 years of top level rugby in him yet?

.ak

Darragh Fanning

Tomtom364

phog wrote: »

Probably going to be missing a few but we could field a selection from Ah You, White, Herbst, Strauss, Herring, Quinn Roux, CJ, Bleyendaal, Aki, Teo, GdvH and Payne.

Some of those might be here under grandparent rule or whatever allowed Boss, Court, Bent etc, play for Ireland.

Louie ludik? Did he play for the boks?

Pink Fairy

Teferi wrote: »

Barring career ending injury then I would bet my house that Sexton will be in the squad come 2019.

I think that's the point of the thread

Teferi

Pink Fairy wrote: »

I think that's the point of the thread

The very first line of the thread reads to me as if OP expects him not to be here due to form/favour etc.

phog

Teferi wrote: »

The very first line of the thread reads to me as if OP expects him not to be here due to form/favour etc.

Whether he's around or not we can't go into another world cup where a player like Madigan is our outhalf in a QF.

Edit to add. The OP also mentions injuries in the very first line.

phog

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Louie ludik? Did he play for the boks?

I don't know but I think I've seen him mentioned as a possible IQ player.

The Pheasant2

I've not managed to see JJ lining out for Northhampton yet - how's he been getting on?

Neil3030

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I've not managed to see JJ lining out for Northhampton yet - how's he been getting on?

Riding the pine with sub appearances at 12.

Pink Fairy

Teferi wrote: »

The very first line of the thread reads to me as if OP expects him not to be here due to form/favour etc.

IMO, Sexton is one major concussion injury away from retirement, he's the best NH 10 and replacing him isn't going to be easy

Richard Hillman

I remember watching Ross Byrne in the Schools Cup and thinking he was a real contender for the future. When he first started to play for U 20s he performed pretty much the same way he did with Leinster for that solo appearance.

His performances for Ireland improved immensely. I reckon he just needs to feel comfortable around his team before he can shine. Unfortunately in terms of Senior International and Provincial, you don't get much time to settle in.

phog

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I've not managed to see JJ lining out for Northhampton yet - how's he been getting on?

Neil3030 wrote: »

Riding the pine with sub appearances at 12.

He started a European game at outhalf and is listed as outhalf for their Premiership game v Bath tomorrow. I think he's been named as a sub for their other games.

molloyjh

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I remember watching Ross Byrne in the Schools Cup and thinking he was a real contender for the future. When he first started to play for U 20s he performed pretty much the same way he did with Leinster for that solo appearance.

His performances for Ireland improved immensely. I reckon he just needs to feel comfortable around his team before he can shine. Unfortunately in terms of Senior International and Provincial, you don't get much time to settle in.

I think that's why he was given that start away to Scarlets tbh. Get him in and involved. I'm sure over the next year or two he'll start getting more and more time off the bench. There's no mad rush on him. We have Sexton, Madigan and Marsh so we can take our time with Byrne. Will he be ready by 2019? Maybe, maybe not. But I do think Johnny will still be around. He's been managing games fairly well and his own form has been on the up the last few weeks too.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

techdiver wrote: »

"If", Jackson is the best 10 from a game management and tactical kicking point of view, then he should be the guy.

There are plenty of other players that can take over the place kicking duties. We have a serious obsession in Ireland that the 10 has to be the goal kicker. It doesn't matter a flying **** who kicks (1 - 15) as long as they go over.

It's the obvious solution but the problem is who else do we have, who isn't a 10, that can kick? McCloskey did a bit of kicking at Ulster during the WC but it was very much a no other option thing. Of the players who are regulars in the Irish set up at the moment we're looking at the 10 doing it or having Madigan on the pitch at 12/15 while Jackson is on at 10.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Of the current options, Jackson is the best fly half. He's not kicked on quite like I hoped he would though.

Jackson's had quite a few spells out with injuries. A couple of full seasons at Ulster without any serious knocks and more game time in green and he might start to live up to what people were expecting from him.

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Louie ludik? Did he play for the boks?

Ludik hasn't played for anyone internationally but he's 29, only arrived in Ulster in 2014(?) so you're looking at him being 31-ish before he even qualifies so he's not a viable long term option, if he was an option at all.

Pink Fairy wrote: »

IMO, Sexton is one major concussion injury away from retirement, he's the best NH 10 and replacing him isn't going to be easy

If you could put a bubble around him and guarantee he didn't get injured again there's no doubt he'd be in the squad in 2019 but he's almost constantly carrying some sort of injury these days. His groin was still at him from the WC until recently, Cullen said last week he's carrying something in his back and that's not even mentioning the concussions.

I don't know that we have a long term successor for Sexton at the moment. If I had to put money on someone it'd be Jackson but it may be a case that we knock a few more seasons out of Sexton, Jackson gets the job done for a few years while some young guy is coming up through the ranks.

Utah_Saint

Rem Jackson is 23. I don't believe sexton had as many league caps as Jackson by 23. I certainly rem a very erratic, none to impressive sexton at 23. If he stays injury free then Jackson will be a quality 10.

Pink Fairy

Hanrahan had a good game today, distribution was good kicked well and nailed a pressure penalty to win the game, good outing in an otherwise poor game

hype101

I don't think Byrne has a real break in him.. Has everything else but he's a big lad and not the quickest.. Hanrahan for me has it all but just needs to bring it together and mature with regular gametime.. More outings like today would be no harm.. Solid throughout and showed glimpses.. Still gutted Munster let him go (by 'let him go' I mean not starting him over Keatley consistently).. But that's for another forum.

case885

hype101 wrote:

I don't think Byrne has a real break in him.. Has everything else but he's a big lad and not the quickest.. Hanrahan for me has it all but just needs to bring it together and mature with regular gametime.. More outings like today would be no harm.. Solid throughout and showed glimpses.. Still gutted Munster let him go (by 'let him go' I mean not starting him over Keatley consistently).. But that's for another forum.

I think he could really push on there and it looks like mallinder isn't afraid to start him in big games, Munster will be doing well to get him back when his contract is up.

CatFromHue

I dunno about that, today was only his second start

case885

CatFromHue wrote:

I dunno about that, today was only his second start

Would you expect more? Meyler is obviously still first choice but starting against Scarlets in Europe and against bath are big games. He should be settled into Northampton's system now so that will stand to him.

hype101

case885 wrote: »

Would you expect more? Meyler is obviously still first choice but starting against Scarlets in Europe and against bath are big games. He should be settled into Northampton's system now so that will stand to him.

I could see him overtaking Meyler over the course of the season.. They play him at 12 as well.

I remember a few seasons ago Ford and Hanrahan came up against each other at under 20 so it was quite interesting to watch today.. Ford had an off day for sure but JJ looked very comfortable.. Can't recall a mistake.. All aspects of his kicking game were rock solid.. Nothing too flashy with ball in hand but he looked lively.

Basically, I think he could be Madigan without the drawbacks.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I didn't realise Hanrahan was so young. Makes sense now the annoyance at him leaving Munster. I thought he was nearer the end of his career than the start.

Is there an actual rule about playing abroad for Irish players? I've read/heard various things about Sexton's time in France but some imply rules were bent a little for him while others imply he's the only player the situation ever arose with but don't make it clear if there was a rule bent a little or if a rule never existed.

Utah_Saint

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I didn't realise Hanrahan was so young. Makes sense now the annoyance at him leaving Munster. I thought he was nearer the end of his career than the start.

Is there an actual rule about playing abroad for Irish players? I've read/heard various things about Sexton's time in France but some imply rules were bent a little for him while others imply he's the only player the situation ever arose with but don't make it clear if there was a rule bent a little or if a rule never existed.

He's the same age as Jackson.

I believe an exception was made for sexton as he was critical to the Int team

Pink Fairy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I didn't realise Hanrahan was so young. Makes sense now the annoyance at him leaving Munster. I thought he was nearer the end of his career than the start.

Is there an actual rule about playing abroad for Irish players? I've read/heard various things about Sexton's time in France but some imply rules were bent a little for him while others imply he's the only player the situation ever arose with but don't make it clear if there was a rule bent a little or if a rule never existed.

There is no rule in place. It's just that most Irish players don't go abroad, but when they so (Sexton, Bowe) they are picked