Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

babyjesus14

Moosey15 wrote: »

Do you have any details on who was cut from panel short time ago ,who remains on periphery/training panel ?

Unfortunately it seems to be easier to get information out of North Korea than it is to get information out of the Kilkenny hurling camp. Though i did hear that Ollie Walsh was recently cut from the panel.

babyjesus14

danganabu wrote: »

Thats a very good question, I think that the starting 15, injuries aside, will look something like ;

Mooney

Flynn Barry Cahill

Heffernan R Maher P Maher

B Maher D Mc Cormack

Bonner S Callinan N Mcgrath

Bubbles J Forde J McGrath

Personally I would have Barrett or Donagh Maher full back but dont see that happening this late in the year and while Barry has had a very poor league and was poor for most of last year he actually had a very good game against Galway last year, Mick Ryan obviously sees him as his number one full back and to be fair to Barry and a little like Joey Holden in 2016 the problems were coming from farther out the field and it was more a case of the last line being the one visually exposed.

I would also play Hogan in the goals but again Mick Ryan seems fairly set on Mooney, I appreciate that our half forward line were poor and have to take a huge portion of the blame but Mooney's puck outs were and are atrocious, when you consider a goalkepper will have on average between 30-35 puckouts a game its a massive part of a keepers artilary and Mooney is incredibly poor at it.

All and all the doom and gloom that has descended on Tipp folk in the last 48 hrs is completly OTT, we are imo in a better place than we were 12 months ago and the reality is that 12 months ago it took a wonder score from a gifted player to seperate the All Ireland champions and Tipp, Flynn, Barrett and Forde have unquestionably added to the strenght of the panel so as long as, and its a big caveat, Callinan and Bubbles return to 2016/17 form Tipp will be bang there again come August.

The Callinan and Bubbles situation will be interesting and probably key to how Tipperary's season pans out. There's a chance that similar to our own Richie Hogan their best years could be behind them though if both could get back to some level of fitness they still would be additions to their respective teams.

Bubbles looked to be close to a stone overweight on Sunday, as a Tipp friend of mine texted me during the second half "Bubbles looks like he is turning into a bubble ". Judging from his body shape he looks like a lad who needs to work hard on controlling his weight so the injury lay off he had was far from ideal. I also believe he's a complex character who needs kid glove handling.

Joe_ Public

babyjesus14 wrote: »

The Callinan and Bubbles situation will be interesting and probably key to how Tipperary's season pans out. There's a chance that similar to our own Richie Hogan their best years could be behind them though if both could get back to some level of fitness they still would be additions to their respective teams.

Bubbles looked to be close to a stone overweight on Sunday, as a Tipp friend of mine texted me during the second half "Bubbles looks like he is turning into a bubble ". Judging from his body shape he looks like a lad who needs to work hard on controlling his weight so the injury lay off he had was far from ideal. I also believe he's a complex character who needs kid glove handling.

Didn't Richie give up his full time job last year to concentrate on hurling? I think he'll have a lot left to offer if that's his level of determination and he gets backs to full fitness. Same for Seamie Callanan. As a Tipp man, I'd be hugely disappointed if he didnt' have at least 3 good years left in him. Was a bit more of a late developer than the likes of Richie Hogan too so that could stand to him in a small way.

As for Bubbles, if he isn't fit, he doesn't start. Simple as that.

babyjesus14

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Didn't Richie give up his full time job last year to concentrate on hurling? I think he'll have a lot left to offer if that's his level of determination and he gets backs to full fitness. Same for Seamie Callanan. As a Tipp man, I'd be hugely disappointed if he didnt' have at least 3 good years left in him. Was a bit more of a late developer than the likes of Richie Hogan too so that could stand to him in a small way.

As for Bubbles, if he isn't fit, he doesn't start. Simple as that.

The problem with Hogan and Callinan is that both of them have back issues which they have been trying to manage/recover from for the last year! Obviously if they can get them solved they could easily have another few years in them after all TJ is older than both of them and is in the form of his life.

Cornerback1

Sunday's game was a bit like 2016 All Ireland I thought but the opposite way. Tipp's full back was exposed and he's taking a bit of flax whereas it was lack of pressure/workrate out in the middle third was the problem.

Cornerback1

Sunday's game was a bit like 2016 All Ireland I thought but the opposite way. Tipp's full back was exposed and he's taking a bit of flax whereas it was lack of pressure/workrate out in the middle third was the problem.

Kkcitylover12

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Unfortunately it seems to be easier to get information out of North Korea than it is to get information out of the Kilkenny hurling camp. Though i did hear that Ollie Walsh was recently cut from the panel.

I heard that there is nearly a panel of 40 still involved training with that including Murphy and fennelly who are due back in the coming weeks.

Typical championship panel in counties 34/35, it will be interesting to see what sort of panel they keep with the 5 c/ship games in the space of 6 weeks

babyjesus14

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Sunday's game was a bit like 2016 All Ireland I thought but the opposite way. Tipp's full back was exposed and he's taking a bit of flax whereas it was lack of pressure/workrate out in the middle third was the problem.

I was in the upper tier of the Cusack stand at that match and my abiding memory of the second half it is the amount of space that was in our half of the pitch particularly between the half back line and the full back line. Because Tipperary got ahead they could dictate the terms of engagement and sit deep with their half forward line pulling our half backs further up the pitch than they wanted to be with the result that every time the Maher brothers caught a ball which they did on numerous occasions they had an ocean of green grass to hit it into and their inside forwards made hay!

Similarly on Sunday when we got ahead we could do the same. But obviously that ploy is only going to work if you can win the aerial duels and rucks in the middle third to supply the forwards which they did in that match and we did on Sunday.

danganabu

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Sunday's game was a bit like 2016 All Ireland I thought but the opposite way. Tipp's full back was exposed and he's taking a bit of flax whereas it was lack of pressure/workrate out in the middle third was the problem.

babyjesus14 wrote: »

I was in the upper tier of the Cusack stand at that match and my abiding memory of the second half it is the amount of space that was in our half of the pitch particularly between the half back line and the full back line. Because Tipperary got ahead they could dictate the terms of engagement and sit deep with their half forward line pulling our half backs further up the pitch than they wanted to be with the result that every time the Maher brothers caught a ball which they did on numerous occasions they had an ocean of green grass to hit it into and their inside forwards made hay!

Similarly on Sunday when we got ahead we could do the same. But obviously that ploy is only going to work if you can win the aerial duels and rucks in the middle third to supply the forwards which they did in that match and we did on Sunday.

Absolutely spot on, take last Sunday for example, Tipp in the second half only won 3 out of 17 of their own puckpouts in the second half which is a frightening statistic in any context, but when possession is being won by your opponent that easily and frequent then it doesnt matter who the full back is, he doesnt have a chance, you look at the best full backs in the history of the game and they all had one thing in common and that's a dominant half back line in front of them, Ronan Maher was being schooled by Reid, no shame in that at all, and as a result wasn't able to offer Barry any protection, no full back in the modern game can cope in that scenario.

HughCassidy

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Didn't Richie give up his full time job last year to concentrate on hurling? I think he'll have a lot left to offer if that's his level of determination and he gets backs to full fitness. Same for Seamie Callanan. As a Tipp man, I'd be hugely disappointed if he didnt' have at least 3 good years left in him. Was a bit more of a late developer than the likes of Richie Hogan too so that could stand to him in a small way.

As for Bubbles, if he isn't fit, he doesn't start. Simple as that.

I say it was part of it but I say the biggest reason he took time out of work was to start up his new business which seems to be going well.

Grats

HughCassidy wrote: »

I say it was part of it but I say the biggest reason he took time out of work was to start up his new business which seems to be going well.

And every good wish to Richie, a gentleman.

MfMan

babyjesus14 wrote: »

God imagine that a journalist able to back up his opinion with stats and results! Sack him quick, we need more spoofers and click bait attention seekers!

And where did he not credit Galway for last year's success? He ranked them as number one in this end of season rankings which you so much despise! And like myself he feels the jury is very much still out on this current Galway team, with the age profile of the team they will have to go on and win another All Ireland or two over the next few years if they want to be remembered as a great team rather than just a good team.

And yes he was very much in the Cunningham camp as were a number of the players. The campaign was very much driven by a group of senior players three of whom Tannion, Collins and Smith had axes to grind as he had dropped them that year. The key to that heave was getting senior player and club mate of Cunningham's David Burke on board which from my sources was touch and go and he did it reluctantly because he felt it was the only way to get the issue sorted otherwise it could've turned into a right mess!

Jeez, chill the beans a bit Martin.

To reply to a few of your points; who knows or says Galway want to be remembered as? Why is the jury out on them? They proved themselves last year as the best in the land with a treble of league, provincial and AI honours. Winning all or nothing this year won't change that.

The time of the heave, Breheny immediately sided with Cunningham against the players; he claimed that the players had never really achieved or proved anything, conveniently forgetting that Cunningham actually won very little as a Galway manager at various levels. To my knowledge, he didn't yet write a piece recanting this and proclaiming that the players were in the right after all. He spent a lot of last year writing, perhaps correctly, but quite begrudgingly one thought, that Galway hadn't yet achieved anything in 2017.

Different sources told me that a number of the players were pissed off with Cunningham; one younger member in particular was summarily dropped from the subs list on the eve of the AI final, having being there all year. Others were taken off not long after being brought on, without adequate chance to acquit themselves. Don't know if anyone outside the camp can actually claim for sure what went on then.

Who said I despise end of season rankings?

As a Galwayman, I don't particularly like or rate Breheny as a good sports journalist. As I said, too often he resorts to 'best-off' lists, rating new managers on results to date, county-by-county standings after the league has concluded, that kind of thing. You may or may not like Eamon Sweeney, for one example, be at least he tries to write insightful articles with a different slant or view point on things than the ordinary.

babyjesus14

MfMan wrote: »

Jeez, chill the beans a bit Martin.

To reply to a few of your points; who knows or says Galway want to be remembered as? Why is the jury out on them? They proved themselves last year as the best in the land with a treble of league, provincial and AI honours. Winning all or nothing this year won't change that.

The time of the heave, Breheny immediately sided with Cunningham against the players; he claimed that the players had never really achieved or proved anything, conveniently forgetting that Cunningham actually won very little as a Galway manager at various levels. To my knowledge, he didn't yet write a piece recanting this and proclaiming that the players were in the right after all. He spent a lot of last year writing, perhaps correctly, but quite begrudgingly one thought, that Galway hadn't yet achieved anything in 2017.

Different sources told me that a number of the players were pissed off with Cunningham; one younger member in particular was summarily dropped from the subs list on the eve of the AI final, having being there all year. Others were taken off not long after being brought on, without adequate chance to acquit themselves. Don't know if anyone outside the camp can actually claim for sure what went on then.

Who said I despise end of season rankings?

As a Galwayman, I don't particularly like or rate Breheny as a good sports journalist. As I said, too often he resorts to 'best-off' lists, rating new managers on results to date, county-by-county standings after the league has concluded, that kind of thing. You may or may not like Eamon Sweeney, for one example, be at least he tries to write insightful articles with a different slant or view point on things than the ordinary.

I genuinely don't see the harm of "best off" and rankings lists particularly in the off season when it's hard to fill copy!

How were the players "right "? Who's to say that Galway wouldn't have won the last two All Ireland's if Cunningham had still been in charge, we will never know!

Please do point out to me even one "insightful" point Sweeney made in either of the articles? The first was contradictory and attention seeking and the second was sycophantic ass licking, ideal click bait fodder!

HughCassidy

Where would you put ur man Tommy Drennan.

tbiggertycome

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Moosey15 wrote: »

Do you have any details on who was cut from panel short time ago ,who remains on periphery/training panel ?

Unfortunately it seems to be easier to get information out of North Korea than it is to get information out of the Kilkenny hurling camp. Though i did hear that Ollie Walsh was recently cut from the panel.

Yeah that rumour about Ollie was going around, I heard after the match though that all the guys that weren't in the match day 26 were sent back to their clubs early so that could be where that rumour comes from.

Village87

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Yeah that rumour about Ollie was going around, I heard after the match though that all the guys that weren't in the match day 26 were sent back to their clubs early so that could be where that rumour comes from.

Sure he may as well go if not gone already, has got loads of chances. Wont see him get anymore IMO

HughCassidy

What an answer to give about a player that things didn't happen for him behind every jersey there is a person.

Village87

HughCassidy wrote: »

What an answer to give about a player that things didn't happen for him behind every jersey there is a person.

Sure that's the cruel reality of Intercounty hurling. Oliie Walsh is part of a great club he can go straight back into a great set up there

Grats

HughCassidy wrote: »

What an answer to give about a player that things didn't happen for him behind every jersey there is a person.

I think that would be how any decent Kilkenny follower would see it. Remember, afterall, the players give it their all, voluntary.

brookville

Good to see Paul Murphy lining out for Danesfort this weekend but returning then to duty and won't be back till early may with colin.It also says hogan won't line out this weekend.

SteJer

danganabu wrote: »

Thats a very good question, I think that the starting 15, injuries aside, will look something like ;

Mooney

Flynn Barry Cahill

Heffernan R Maher P Maher

B Maher D Mc Cormack

Bonner S Callinan N Mcgrath

Bubbles J Forde J McGrath

1-7 is the same as played in the match on Sunday. They conceded 2-23 to a Kilkenny team without 3 of their ideal 6 starting forwards. Only two of the forwards from Sunday made the league team of the year with the other 4 having played a combined total of ZERO championship matches. If the media was to be believed Kilkenny are a one man team. What would happen Tipp with that back line when they play a team with more than one good forward???

Charlie69

SteJer wrote: »

1-7 is the same as played in the match on Sunday. They conceded 2-23 to a Kilkenny team without 3 of their ideal 6 starting forwards. Only two of the forwards from Sunday made the league team of the year with the other 4 having played a combined total of ZERO championship matches. If the media was to be believed Kilkenny are a one man team. What would happen Tipp with that back line when they play a team with more than one good forward???

Don't be getting too carried away my friend... championship a very different animal to the league.

Joe_ Public

Put Barrett in there instead of Heffernan and it's probably a better back 6 than 2016 imo. Ok, I know past glories and all that, but it's just 2 years and Tipp havent deteriorated that much in the meantime. Whether Barrett will get his starting place back is another matter in fairness...

greenspurs

Don't mind Tipp.

they have their own Thread

Justice for the individual

HughCassidy wrote: »

I say it was part of it but I say the biggest reason he took time out of work was to start up his new business which seems to be going well.

A lot of people forget that, to reach the top tier, all these hurlers sacrifice a lot of their family ,personal and work/business/college lives to achieve that aim, and it is only when they are near or in their 30's, and it is only at the end of their careers they can concentrate on this aspect of their lives.

Richie needs a little space now to do that and also to get over his back injury, which appears to be slow in responding to treatment.

There is no doubt though, that if Richie gets his back right, he will be back at the sport he loves.

Good luck to him with his career venture, he deserves success.

danganabu

SteJer wrote: »

1-7 is the same as played in the match on Sunday. They conceded 2-23 to a Kilkenny team without 3 of their ideal 6 starting forwards. Only two of the forwards from Sunday made the league team of the year with the other 4 having played a combined total of ZERO championship matches. If the media was to be believed Kilkenny are a one man team. What would happen Tipp with that back line when they play a team with more than one good forward???

We'll see in August when we play Galway I guess

Grats

We all expect Tipp to advance a long way in the championship, as would Michael Ryan and Tipp supporters. Would be worth remembering though, after the drawn Final in 2014 all the talk was about how well Tipp did and the huge score they put up. The manager clearly believed the hype too as he sent out the same 15 in the replay. Cody saw it different and changed things up. We all know what happened in that replay.

Just recently on a lesser scale, when we defeated Tipp in the League we had to hear about Ryan not bringing P Maher on. We were to believe that had he brought him on they'd have beaten KK. Well, P Maher was there for the entire match last Sunday.

Cornerback1

I see Paul Murphy may play this week-end and then head away again.

danganabu

Grats wrote: »

We all expect Tipp to advance a long way in the championship, as would Michael Ryan and Tipp supporters. Would be worth remembering though, after the drawn Final in 2014 all the talk was about how well Tipp did and the huge score they put up. The manager clearly believed the hype too as he sent out the same 15 in the replay. Cody saw it different and changed things up. We all know what happened in that replay.

Just recently on a lesser scale, when we defeated Tipp in the League we had to hear about Ryan not bringing P Maher on. We were to believe that had he brought him on they'd have beaten KK. Well, P Maher was there for the entire match last Sunday.

Michael Ryan wasnt manager in 2014, how do you know that Eamon O'Shea believed any supposed hype? Maybe he was simply confident that the 15 he picked the first day was the best 15 available??

The KK win was as a result of their ability to nulify Tipp and change the way they approached hte game ( obviously KK dont do tactics but you know) Tipp's biggest failing and it is something that still exists today is that they dont have a plan b when plan a isnt working, Plan A when it works is devestating as 2016 showed, Michael Ryan was actually the manager then FWIW, but when the opposition get it right Tipp have no fallback.

The claim that Tipp would have won the first league game if P Maher had have played, would you have a link to who in the Tipp camp made this claim, I must have missed it?

Grats

danganabu wrote: »

Michael Ryan wasnt manager in 2014, how do you know that Eamon O'Shea believed any supposed hype? Maybe he was simply confident that the 15 he picked the first day was the best 15 available??

The KK win was as a result of their ability to nulify Tipp and change the way they approached hte game ( obviously KK dont do tactics but you know) Tipp's biggest failing and it is something that still exists today is that they dont have a plan b when plan a isnt working, Plan A when it works is devestating as 2016 showed, Michael Ryan was actually the manager then FWIW, but when the opposition get it right Tipp have no fallback.

The claim that Tipp would have won the first league game if P Maher had have played, would you have a link to who in the Tipp camp made this claim, I must have missed it?

Spend less time on this forum and more on your own one , you might be better informed!