MORE crap on the way.

goz83

It would have been interesting to attend, but I work every Saturday. I would have thought that a fair few more than 2 dozen would have been able to go. Still, I am sure the most valid points were made and Marian has more support than just those who were in the room.

yubabill1

Remembered Some more from Sat

Marian said the number of firearm licences here increased by 14% in the last year or so.

Also breakdown of Euro Parliament groupings:

EPP 273;

Socialists 190;

ALDE 89 (Marian's group);

Greens 58;

Conservatives 56;

Unattached 31;

EFD 29.

Marian said 20% usually vote against any proposal in EP votes and that smaller groups are influenced by the intentions of the large groups.

Cass

I don't doubt numbers have risen slightly, but I'd still question the validity of those numbers given the unreliability of PULSE.

Sparks

14%? I doubt it. We'd have noticed 30,000 new people shooting I think.
I get the feeling that 14% is coming from the three year system introducing large variations in how many new licences are issued each year.

yubabill1

Do not know where the figs came from, it was just by way of an introductory aside. May very well be an artifact.

Sparks

It's just a slightly delicate figure, given this...

Nekarsulm

Or counting substitutions as a new firearm. Even then, 30,000 would be an exceptional number.

long range shooter

Came across this article yesterday.

http://www.dw.com/en/speculation-about-origin-of-aks-used-in-paris-attacks/a-18880796

Its about the guns used in the terrorattacks in Paris.
Definately not legally obtained.Claim they might have been bought black market in Germany.
I really cant see how they can associate this with taking away semi autos in Europe??
Same with online sales of firearms and parts.

yubabill1

Sparks wrote: »

It's just a slightly delicate figure, given this...

Well aware of the Minister's comments.

The prospect of an FG minority government, precariously supported by FF and some independents may mean that new ministers will be very slow to propose ruffling any feathers, providing the EU firearms directive is sufficiently watered-down.

OzCam

I'm really sorry I didn't make it to the meeting lads. I had to go and look at a car at short notice.

I wanted to say that airsofters have an issue with some specific wording (the use of "combustible" instead of "by means of combustion" in the Ford report) but apart from that we're with you on all your other points.

Maybe someone can update Marion Harkin on the problems with that 30,000 figure?

Thanks very much to yuba and grizz for the info.

Grizzly 45

Done!;)

Cass

Here is the danger of the political talk and the "we're nice" attitude they are taking to make us think they are not targeting us.

https://www.facebook.com/FirearmsUnitedCroatia/?fref=nf (scroll down to the Valero clip)


In it she says the commission are not targeting sports shooters or hunters and how a "one size fits all" policy won't work. However she then goes on to say how some countries request medical or mental health checks and that all hunters and shooters should have to do this.

How in the name of all that is Holy will us doing even more checks combat terrorism? At the end of the day this is what this entire farce is supposed to be about. It has long since moved from combating terrorism to placating the masses with meaningless and senseless curbing of legally held firearms because that is a factor they have control over.

As for the article above about the AKs used. This is not a new thing. In 2012 the Mayor of Marseille admitted certain districts within Paris were flooded with automatic weapons used by criminal gangs, and the police were powerless and outgunned. This is also not a new phenomenon. It has been a problem for decades and each successive president of France done nothing. Illegal weapons have long been present.

Rimfire Shooter

Our own country was/is awash with illegal firearms too don't forget Hotel shooting in Dublin a few weeks ago.

We've been on the receiving end of this screw the legit firearms as we can't find the illegal ones crap a few times already!

They won't stop until we have no firearms. The terrorists & criminals will still have theirs and it'll be too late for us at that stage

Cass

Nobody is under the impression that there are not illegal weapons in the state. Anyone that believes this is delusional.

What we, the shooting community, are saying is to vilify us as a PR exercise to distract the general public from their fear of terrorists is ignorant, short sighted and most importantly pointless. They can ban all legally held firearms in the morning, but the reason they won't is if they did and the attacks continued (and they will) then the Governments of the various countries would have no whipping boy left. They would then be faced with two options. Actually do something (won't hold my breath) or admit they are incompetent/unable to combat the threat.

I read an article in the paper yesterday about armed Garda Units. The article had quotes from senior Gardaí saying that the increase in armed Gardaí is laughable and no better than it was 20 years. The number of armed Gardaí represents 0.87% of the total number of Gardaí with a maximum of 5 - 20 on shift at any one time. Response times of at least 20 minutes with some waiting almost an hour (50 minutes) for a unit to show up. Even then they are hilariously outgunned.

Another article was about the armed Gardaí and airport police. They were "unofficially" told not to scare tourists and people traveling through our airports/ports by having their firearms visible. I mean FFS, come on. Don't spook people. Every other police force is armed to the teeth and more concerned with discouraging attacks due to a heavy presence than upsetting people.

Nekarsulm

Did I hear something on a radio lately where the Gardai hierarchy were looking to have the old UZI's brought back into service?
Surely a step backwards.
I remember seeing TV footage of the Abbeylara seige/standoff, with a Garda peering over a wall with an UZI, hardly an accurate enough weapon for such a situation.

hermes2011

that's why they got rid off them

long range shooter

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Did I hear something on a radio lately where the Gardai hierarchy were looking to have the old UZI's brought back into service?
Surely a step backwards.
I remember seeing TV footage of the Abbeylara seige/standoff, with a Garda peering over a wall with an UZI, hardly an accurate enough weapon for such a situation.

And since many criminals use bulletproof vests and bodyarmour,you wont get far wth a UZI,you need an MP7 or MP9.

hermes2011

the isreali defence forces have stop using them too they were designed for urban warfare just to spray rounds I think they used them first in 6 day war in the Golan heights to clear the Syrian army out off the tunnels they had much easier to use than m16 in small space

Grizzly 45

The Israelis stopped issuing the Uzi simply because it is a 60 plus year old design!Its heavy,clunky,open bolt and outdated in warfare in the 21st century. They have plenty of US supplied M4s or their own much better design of a bull pup rifle ,the Tavor. The UZI is still made by FN and IMI for those die hards who want a gun thats whole function is mass killing at close range,and not very efficently at that either.Even the US secret service has switched to HK Mp5.

Irrespectively a submachine gun and full auto has limited to NO use in an every day law enforcement duties.Especially a crude and inaccurate by todays standards UZI. Fine if you are a SWAT unit and you need alot of lead going out in a house clearing situation,but to be lugging it around irish streets in an unmarked squad car,where tBH somthing like a Ruger mini14 with a folding stock in semi auto in 223 would do just as well for any events we might have here.There is certain ammo out there that will defeat body armour in 223 just as well if not better than the miniscule needle bullets that HK makes for its MP7 and at half the cost. As a police officer you are justr as responsible a,if not more so than a civvie for where your bullets go downrange and a SMG is a hard gun to learn to control in burst fire or double taps. Its not only the gun that needs rethinking here its the tactics of the use of deafly force by our police.

gunny123

There was a retired garda detective on that tv3 programme that Vincent Browne used to host last night. He said all funding for ranges was withdrawn and the ranges closed down. Also there was no money for ammunition available at all either. Templemore has been closed for about 5 years now. How can the minister for justice expect the gardai at the coalface of dealing with armed lunatics, to be at all proficient with their carry pistols ?

Grizzly 45

The atypical story you hear of AGS firearms training is.Fire off your three mags worth of ammo once a year to get your" fresh ammo" for next years duty.:eek:
To be firearms qualified in most US PD's you have to put a mandatory 100 rounds per month downrange with a 90% score in the vital zone.Thats just for patrol officers.SWAT guys live on the range when nothing is happening.

As most of us know shooting ,especially with handguns is a very perishable skill that unless you put in the range time,you are going to be producing shotgun style groupings.Now add this into a dynamic and "stress fire" situations that any LEO might encounter and you really have to wonder is it really worthwhile or sensible to train AGS members with firearms,if the govt or top brass is going to welsh out on f back up and support training?

Sparks

Guys, the specific details of this topic are probably more suited to a different forum. They're not exactly related to hunting or target shooting, and are far enough away from the topic of this thread to not be very germane to it.

gunny123

Comrade McGrath TD was on the news today saying he is ready to enter into government with FG & FF. I wonder what he will be asking for in return ?

Grizzly 45

A one way ticket to Cuba is what he should be given.

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A one way ticket to Cuba is what he should be given.

I know, but he was agitator in chief the last time our pistols were under threat.

Grizzly 45

Welll, his EU comrades might do all the work for him too, before he even gets his red ass on a seat in the Dail. by the time this lot get really sorted,it will be close to Summer recess anyway and this will be so far down the list of things needing doing that it will be proably 2017 that it might appear again.However by then it could be don and dusted in Europe one way or the other.

Grizzly 45

Via firearms united ireland on facebook.

http://firearms-united.com/2016/05/07/how-the-council-works

SITREP
This is stalled with the GENVAL comittee,and they are now trying to ban guns that CAN accept magazines that CAN hold more than 20 shots!!:eek: That means just about any gun then with a detachable mag.I guess these EU rocrats have not looked on how well this has worked out in the USA.Go ahead and ban high cap mags ,and create a new black market easily sorted with 3d printers.
Or the next ban any gun with a folding ,telescoping or detachable stock that doesnt affect its working mechanism if it is under an OAL of 60 cmsSo make the barrel a 1cm longer and its clear of legislative bans..Again wayy bnehind the curve EU. There is now a mechanism@250 dollars that allows me to turn any AR15 into a side folder and prevents it from being fired
.However,if you have an accuacy Intl with a folding stock you might be in trouble as the bolt acyion can still be fired with the stock folded and it can take a 20 round.:pac:
Fun and sadly dangerous to see idiots trying to legislate for somthing they have no clue bout :mad:

Cass

Some good news from the vote yesterday. In short:

• Banning of Cat B7 - rejected
• Licensing of DeActs - rejected
• Restriction of mag limits and suppressors - rejected
• Marking of Ammo - rejected
• Medical testing - rejected
• Standardised licensing dates - rejected
• Prohibition of under 18's to operate/possess firearms - rejected
• Security standards for private owners - left up each member state
• Establishment of common firearms database

There are more, but these are the ones most relevant to us. The others involve the sale and possession of ex-milspec stuff and other items that we cannot have regardless of how the vote goes.

It's important to note that this is only the first step, but its a big one and sets the tone for future votes such as the IMCO one. IOW we can breath a sigh of relief, but not rest on our laurels just yet. There are further votes and even if they go our way it could all be rejected by the EU council and this will lead us to a whole new set of problems.

Grizzly 45

Thanks for posting Cass. Saved me a job of work.:D This is the end of the beginnind alright .However it can still be vetoed by the EU comission[Shows how democratic this entire EU organisation is:mad:] If the worst comes to the worst and this will seriously panic the entire anti gun EU contingent is it gets stalled until next month and then either Malta or Croatia get the EU presidency.Both are very PRO GUN countries and if they get in this nonsense will end up in the dustbin.So the antis are finding their backs up against the wall soon,so watch out for dirty tricks being played if they can.

Anyways read it for yourselves hereon the Firearms United webpage.[Book mark it too.This pade is the place for the newest news on the EU firearms debate.]

http://firearms-united.com/2016/05/10/eugunban-finally-victory-libe/#more-561

Grizzly 45

From the Firearms united web page.
[Free to disiminate and share]


++ The vote for these amendments is the 24-05-2016 +++

The Committee on the Internal Market and Consumer Protection
(IMCO) published the amendments for the EU Firearms Directive.

Funny phenomenon: Every time we see something and think "Hey, that is total bull****", it came from Durand (French Green). Every time we see something that makes a bit of sense the names above are Ford and Corazza Bildt.



These amendments will be voted for on 24th of May and their final outcome will be presented to the European Parliament. www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=COMPARL&reference=JURI-OJ-20160523-1&format=XML&langu...

Let's hope that Durand's opinion will be crashed as Gomes' at the LIBE Committee.

But for this we need to persuade the Socialists to reject his amendments.

You can find all IMCO members here:
www.europarl.europa.eu/committees/en/imco/members.html

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