DCM 2015 Graduates: Chapter Next!

neilthefunkeone

Another thread to follow!! yaaaayyy

a) What are your main running goals for the next 3 to 12 months?

I'm jumping straight back in with a Marathon April/May. Possibly Limerick 1st May. I cant make DCM16 and cant spare holiday days to get to a foreign marathon.

b) In what way do you see this thread helping out?
Sanity checking!!! My head got lost in the run up to DCM and my on the day plan was poor. So now i need to get that part right for the next one!

Plus all the novices were sound!!

Clearlier

Good luck Myles. I'm sure that you'll be absolutely brilliant.

Enjoy it everyone. You're in excellent hands with Myles.

diego_b

Nice one, thanks for doing this Myles!

Phoebas

a) What are your main running goals for the next 3 to 12 months?
I'd definitely like to try to improve my speeds at shorter distances. I really enjoy the Marathon/HM distance but races at the longer distances aren't so common, so maybe I should also look at 5k/10k.
I've been meaning to get myself along to my local parkrun but marathon training has got in the way of this, so now might be the time to start doing that. I believe there are a few heads around here who are regulars in St. Anne's?

I figure that if I can work on speed at shorter distances this should translate into better results at the longer ones.

(Admission: I ran the Run In The Dark 10k last week. 47:55 which was a PB by about 4 minutes from April. I know we were advised not to return to racing so soon; I signed up for it before the marathon and I wasn't really paying attention to how close it was at the time.)


b) In what way do you see this thread helping out?
I need discipline over these winter months.

I guess sharing this thread with the rest of you folk all with particular goals in mind will help me to keep focus on some kind of a plan; otherwise I'm likely to just be going out for runs (which is grand in itself), but not doing training - if that makes sense.
It seems like it was only a few weeks ago that I was doing long 20m runs in the sun, absolutely focused on October 26. Now that's over, the sun has gone away, I don't have any specific goal to work towards, so now I'm needing some additional motivation.

Singer

Myles Splitz wrote: »

No such thing as a silly question. The only stupid question is the one not asked.

Hi Myles! Thanks for taking this on

First stupid question: How should you think about time goals when starting a training cycle, and how should you tune/adjust paces to suit?

My marathon training was all over the shop pace-wise, part of the problem was that it was hard for me to know what paces to be running at as I wasn't sure what pace I'd be running my races at.

jake1970

a) What are your main running goals for the next 3 to 12 months?

Goals for the year would to achieve PBs in all the distances from 5k to the marathon. The main goals would be a sub 40 in the 10k and run DCM 2016 but first up will be Donadea 50k in February, training starts next week:eek:.
Target races will be Athlone for the HM, Dunshauglin for the 10k and maybe St Coca's for the 5k.


b) In what way do you see this thread helping out?

Hopefully the advice received on this thread will help me obtain the above goals.

Thanks for taking this on Myles.
I really enjoyed your continuity thread last year, the variation in sessions were a real eye opener to a newbie like me who would normally just train from a generic plan from a book.

JMSE

a) What are your main running goals for the next 3 to 12 months?

Great stuff mr splitz! I want to go sub 20 in a 5k, am on 20.44 so far. And I havent done a 10k since Jul'14 so I'll be hoping to get that below 45. DCM in '16? Possibly, or maybe a different marathon altogether, a country one would interest me.


b) In what way do you see this thread helping out?

should be great given the mix of individuals and the variety of goals / achievements / niggles / races should all blend into a really interesting read, under the watchful eye of someone who knows ............. thanks myles splitz!

Mrs Mc

Thanks for taking this on Myles looking forward to your input and advice over the coming months.

Myles Splitz

Singer wrote: »

Hi Myles! Thanks for taking this on

First stupid question: How should you think about time goals when starting a training cycle, and how should you tune/adjust paces to suit?

My marathon training was all over the shop pace-wise, part of the problem was that it was hard for me to know what paces to be running at as I wasn't sure what pace I'd be running my races at.

Definitely not a stupid question given it is one that I reckon is applicable to about 95% of us as runners get it wrong in some shape or form (easy runs too fast, workouts too fast/slow, over/underestimate ability in races.

The problem is that many set time goals at the start or a training cycle and train according to those goals (trying to run a 3.30 marathon for example is 8 min per mile MP therefore people set out with a plan at that being the training pace from day 1 depite maybe not being there just yet)

Does that mean you can't have a time goal in mind? not at all

Personally with my own training I generally have an A standard time set out that I would like to hit (often over ambitious) however if training goes really well it would only be in the few weeks building up to race that the times would start to get close to those paces and if they don't then the time is not realistic and need to adjust.

Day 1 of training is usually a good bit off that though and it is important to remember that effort is what counts however this is something that takes time to learn. There is no point telling someone to run at 5k effort if there only experience was running it over a year ago and either blowing up or going off too conservative.

There are a number of ways you can determine paces - online calculators, HR, pace guides etc and these can be good starting points but ultimately we want you to get to the stage where if Storm Barney returns down the line you be able to make allowances for that and still run the same effort.

People can get too disheartened by the watch and sometimes you need to just ignore it and get down to the feel of racing which is something which needs to be developed and has become somewhat of a dying art to an extent (not just in Novices but in the sport in general)

For races for now (in particular 5ks like Jingle bells or Park run coming up) my advice is to head out the first km at your current PB pace. See how you feel after this if you feel strong pick it up if not try to maintain. Racing is like anything, you get better the more you practice.

Regarding paces I will be giving general pace range guides for all sessions on the plan coming up but to start off here is the kind of ranges I would normally use

Easy Pace| 5k + 2.30-3 min per mile|
Steady Pace| 5k + 1.15 - 1.45 sec per mile|
MP| 5k + 45 sec - 1.15 min per mile
HMP| 5k pace + 25-40 sec per mile
10k| 5k + 15-30 sec per mile

I will be going further into how to use Heart Rate and other guides once we get into the plan but for now this should provide a general guideline to get people on the right track.

nop98

Thanks Myles - I've added the other way of looking at it, too #cheek

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Easy Pace| 5k + 2.30-3 min per mile| 5k + 1:30 - 1:50 min/km
Steady Pace| 5k + 1.15 - 1.45 sec per mile| 5k + 0:45 - 1:05 min/km
MP| 5k + 45 sec - 1.15 min per mile| 5k + 0:27 - 0:45 min/km
HMP| 5k pace + 25-40 sec per mile| 5k + 0:15 - 0:25 min/km
10k| 5k + 15-30 sec per mile| 5k + 0:10 - 0:19 min/km

chrislad

I've done a couple of faster shorts run this week. I've forgotten how much tougher the speed increase is! So used to the easier, endurance runs, that I'm nearly exhausted after 2 miles now! I might need another week of easy run to get back into it, as it's been very disrupted this week with work, and a death in the family. I went out for 3 miles or so this morning. First 2 at 9:22 average, and last one at 10:00. Felt fine after, but coming to mile 2, it was feeling tough.

Myles Splitz

nop98 wrote: »

Thanks Myles - I've added the other way of looking at it, too #cheek

You had to mention the war

The good news is that the plan will be set by neither come monday

*Hint

T = D/S

Myles Splitz

chrislad wrote: »

I've done a couple of faster shorts run this week. I've forgotten how much tougher the speed increase is! So used to the easier, endurance runs, that I'm nearly exhausted after 2 miles now! I might need another week of easy run to get back into it, as it's been very disrupted this week with work, and a death in the family. I went out for 3 miles or so this morning. First 2 at 9:22 average, and last one at 10:00. Felt fine after, but coming to mile 2, it was feeling tough.

Good news is that speed will come back quicker than strength takes to build so it will just take a little bit to get used to it.

diego_b

Planning on doing my first parkrun since June tomorrow, Tralee is a 3 lap course so thinking of trying a progression run. Lap before hand nice and easy to warm up. Then 3 laps with each a little bit faster than the last if I can. I don't think I ready to try break my parkrun PB yet but this will be a way to not blow up and finish strong I hope.

Duanington

Great idea - looking forward to checking in on this thread. Good luck everyone !

Myles Splitz

diego_b wrote: »

Planning on doing my first parkrun since June tomorrow, Tralee is a 3 lap course so thinking of trying a progression run. Lap before hand nice and easy to warm up. Then 3 laps with each a little bit faster than the last if I can. I don't think I ready to try break my parkrun PB yet but this will be a way to not blow up and finish strong I hope.

This can be a very sensible approach as well if you are unsure of your fitness level and brings up another point.

The function of Parkrun

These were a great idea and can be a very useful training tool. Following on from my previous point regarding practicing racing, Parkruns can be a perfect way of doing this.

Don't be afraid to practice different tactics every so often to see what suits you.

- Go out hard and try to hold on
- Try to maintain even pace
- Start conservative and build into it
- Practice surges when tired

All these can be great tools when you are racing and some suit individuals moreso than others. For me I think park runs can be great if I have a race coming up and I haven't had a race effort in a while in order to blow out the cobwebs. Others find it useful to get the practice of running hard in a crowd.

My advice would be use Park run to practice for the target races.

diego_b

Will do a full report later but got a park run PB!! GPS was useless today but as a stopwatch it gave me 22:5x, previous best was 23:16. Delighted with that, felt I ran it well and first run at 5K pace in months.

Phoebas

I also did my first parkrun this morning in St. Anne's.

Did it in 22:00. Pretty happy with that and it gives me an easy to remember number to work off.
I probably went out too fast, but it was my first race at 5k and I don't really know how to approach this distance. But as Myles says I can now try out different strategies and see what works.

Bloody cold out there this morning.

diego_b

I think the results from Tralee might be a bit off unfortunately, they gave me a time of 22:36 (5K PB for me is 22:51 and parkrun pb was 23:16). I recorded 22:57 on my watch and the finishing times on the results page closest to what I think is my time are 22:50, unknown, 22:58. I think my true time is whatever that unknown time was, guessing there was a few extra clicks in the results ahead of me. Next parkrun for me should be in two weeks and a 5K race a week after that so will know my true time better then. Hope that pb they have given me is one I can break properly soon!

menoscemo

diego_b wrote: »

I think the results from Tralee might be a bit off unfortunately, they gave me a time of 22:36 (5K PB for me is 22:51 and parkrun pb was 23:16). I recorded 22:57 on my watch and the finishing times on the results page closest to what I think is my time are 22:50, unknown, 22:58. I think my true time is whatever that unknown time was, guessing there was a few extra clicks in the results ahead of me. Next parkrun for me should be in two weeks and a 5K race a week after that so will know my true time better then. Hope that pb they have given me is one I can break properly soon!

This can happen quite a bit in parkruns as the timer can sometimes go out of Synch with the person handing out the placing tokens. If you email them they will move you into your correct placing. I'd imagine if your watch shows 22:57 then 22:58 is your correct result.

diego_b

menoscemo wrote:

This can happen quite a bit in parkruns as the timer can sometimes go out of Synch with the person handing out the placing tokens. If you email them they will move you into your correct placing. I'd imagine if your watch shows 22:57 then 22:58 is your correct result.

Cool thanks, will try that and see if they can change it....I thought maybe a second or so off my watch at worse but no way that much.

Four weeks since DCM now so I assume everything is good to go now with regards to beginning a new training plan?

I expect that I'm going to be thrown a bit backward with my 5k times so is it worth doing next week's parkrun and using that as my starting point or will I start the plan and just do the races on weeks it suggests?

nop98

Only managed two shorter mid-week runs, this week, both my trusted 4M lunchtime loop.One on auto-pilot (9:34 min/M), one faster (8:24 min/M) in the company of two fast colleagues. They ran, I followed, we chatted, and nobody watched the time. Loved it.

Strava informs me I have done the same run 43 times in the last year. And that's only after I started tracking it.. Maybe I should vary my lunchtime routes!

Didn't manage to get out for the parkrun this morning (it was my better half's turn) but it seems they're a good gauge for where you are - I was pleasantly surprised with last week. So I'd go for it, whoops. You'll do better than you think!

Tomorrow morning, I'll head into the hills for 9-10M. Gloves and hat at the ready!

skittles11

Firedance wrote: »

so much so there will plenty of graduates from other years lurking in here to learn

Me for one! It was my second DCM this year and this thread seems like a great way to make to make the most of the hard earned fitness.

My main goal is to PB a 10km, currently 43.56 (twice!). Cant make it to any in December so on the lookout for one or two in the new year. Might hit some Park runs in the meantime, current PB is 20.38 in Marlay so dying to go sub 20.

Mrs Mc

Nearly 4 weeks on hard to believe, is anyone else still suffering with some pain. I'm getting out alrightt but keeping the pace at easy and the mileage low (3 miles initially and gradually increasing to 6 miles this week did a few strides earlier in the week) But both my Achilles are still sore and my left calf as well. Went for sports massage a week after DCM have kept up my stretches and foam rolling. Starting to feel that maybe I'd be best heading to physio for a check before proper training starts. Headed to the Clontarf half and 5 miles yesterday but supporting duties only was a bit of me that would have loved to be doing it.

denis b

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Nearly 4 weeks on hard to believe, is anyone else still suffering with some pain. .

Funny you should say that, and may be unrelated, but my quads are tender. Did one strength training session 10 days ago and am only just about recovered. Have been out hill walking twice as well and I think the mix has slowed my recovery.

On the plus side, once I am out running everything feels good. Just need to keep up the stretching and rolling which I have slackened off with to be honest.

Kennyg71

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Nearly 4 weeks on hard to believe, is anyone else still suffering with some pain. I'm getting out alrightt but keeping the pace at easy and the mileage low (3 miles initially and gradually increasing to 6 miles this week did a few strides earlier in the week) But both my Achilles are still sore and my left calf as well. Went for sports massage a week after DCM have kept up my stretches and foam rolling. Starting to feel that maybe I'd be best heading to physio for a check before proper training starts. Headed to the Clontarf half and 5 miles yesterday but supporting duties only was a bit of me that would have loved to be doing it.

Think u are like me, you will always have sore Achilles, Physio told me
Down to bad genetics, and comes from tight calf muscles. Stretch foam
Roll to keep at tolerable level. Have read up lots on subject and bar stopping
Altogether, will just have to manage it. I think most runners have niggles
If u ask and have certain amount of discomfort, as long as enjoyment out
Weights any discomfort happy running. Have stopped excerising altogether
In past and it goes away, but two stone heavier and sucking on inhalers
Every few hours, I'll take bit of discomfort😊

Singer

denis b wrote: »

Funny you should say that, and may be unrelated, but my quads are tender.

My quads have been damn sore too this week. I don't remember them being this sore before the marathon even at the peak of training. The soreness really kicked in near the end of a run on Thursday, it felt like I'd just run the marathon a couple of days before!

Mrs Mc

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Think u are like me, you will always have sore Achilles, Physio told me
Down to bad genetics, and comes from tight calf muscles. Stretch foam
Roll to keep at tolerable level. Have read up lots on subject and bar stopping
Altogether, will just have to manage it. I think most runners have niggles
If u ask and have certain amount of discomfort, as long as enjoyment out
Weights any discomfort happy running. Have stopped excerising altogether
In past and it goes away, but two stone heavier and sucking on inhalers
Every few hours, I'll take bit of discomfort😊

Thanks G yeah I reckon I will always have issues with them according to the physio definately don't want to be putting on two stone and sucking on inhalers, will continue to monitor and keep the stretches up and maybe get a check with the physio just to be on the safe side maybe get some more exercises from her to help with the issues. Might just need a bit of dry needling it helped the last time. :eek:

Kennyg71

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Thanks G yeah I reckon I will always have issues with them according to the physio definately don't want to be putting on two stone and sucking on inhalers, will continue to monitor and keep the stretches up and maybe get a check with the physio just to be on the safe side maybe get some more exercises from her to help with the issues. Might just need a bit of dry needling it helped the last time. :eek:

Ah excerise can't ever stop doing them, also meant to say fact when you
Are watching race and want to be in it says Achilies won't be stopping you
Anytime soon😀