I hate the M50 [Warning post #222]

maninasia

The countries I drive in Asia have as bad or worse drivers!

The real problem is the m50 cannot handle that number of cars, it's already far past it's planned capacity.

As we can see the temporary fix of adding an extra lane didn't last long!

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/m50-reaches-crisis-capacity-25938959.html

ThisRegard

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Lane swapping and in the wrong lane - lane discipline is almost absent -

This is the biggest problem, I've seen a couple of accidents as they happen, one serious enough to close a few lanes, which was caused by people leaving it until the last minute to take their slip road to exit. They'll just career across 2 or 2 lanes to get across.

Some people just have some odd aversion to being in any lane than other than the outside.

lapua20grain

Don't know if this has been posted yet but I have been driving in the UK recently and they use the hard shoulder as an extra lane for off ramps at rush hour and itvseems to work well maybe if they did something similar here it may work. I used to use the M50 but moved job and I save about 2-3 hours a day commuting.

ThisRegard

It wouldn't really work as the hard shoulder ends on the slip roads.

jd

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that driving in the M50 is beyond the competencies of most drivers - other countries have heavy traffic on similar roads but not the daily mayhem we see here. Couple of observations from driving in this road:

Tailgating - this is a huge issue. People drive in your back seat, so any sudden stops can lead to pile ups very easily.

Merging - because everyone drives to protect the space in front of their bonnet like their life depends on it, common sense doesn't prevail. So when the road is backed up, people trying to merge are not alllowed to do so - I know there's no obligation to allow someone merge, but sometimes it's the sensible and mature way to deal with these situations. People doggedly protecting the space in from of their Bonnet leads to people merging taking chances. Because of the tailgating issue above, any sodden stop can cause a pile up.

Lane swapping and in the wrong lane - lane discipline is almost absent - so people think darting left and right is going to transform their morning commute, whereas it saves a few seconds in reality. This causes sodden braking and the issues with tailgating become evident very quickly.

Overall I think our driving style here is quite immature and defensive and people take irresponsible risks for apparent little gain. If people chilled out a bit and used the road responsibly, we might go someday to helping what must be a daily nightmare at this stage.

Add mobile phone use to that:

lapua20grain

ThisRegard wrote: »

It wouldn't really work as the hard shoulder ends on the slip roads.

That was the point that it is used as an extra lane on the slip roads off the motorway not as an extra traffic lane so you would have 2 lanes servicing the exits

Roadhawk

lapua20grain wrote: »

Don't know if this has been posted yet but I have been driving in the UK recently and they use the hard shoulder as an extra lane for off ramps at rush hour and itvseems to work well maybe if they did something similar here it may work. I used to use the M50 but moved job and I save about 2-3 hours a day commuting.

We have cycle lanes in some hard shoulder...
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4082992,-6.2651162,3a,89.9y,56.05h,67.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sexnkxeFplFrXnN7ZzUCJeQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

marno21

Roadhawk wrote: »

We have cycle lanes in some hard shoulder...
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4082992,-6.2651162,3a,89.9y,56.05h,67.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sexnkxeFplFrXnN7ZzUCJeQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That's on the R108, not the M50.

HiGlo

On my journey to work on the M50 this morning there was a car driving in the middle lane at approx 80/85kmph. There was a gap of approx 1km between him and the car in front of him. There was nothing at all at least 1km either in front or behind of him to his left - in the lane he SHOULD have been driving in. He never adjusted lane.
This meant that 80-90% of the cars driving behind him had to pull into the outer lane to get past him.

I encounter this pretty much every day. People travelling well below the speed limit (which is their prerogative) IN THE WRONG LANE. It regularly happens on the outside lane too.

Roadhawk

marno21 wrote: »

That's on the R108, not the M50.

Its still the slip road coming off the M50...

Dial Hard

HiGlo wrote:

On my journey to work on the M50 this morning there was a car driving in the middle lane at approx 80/85kmph. There was a gap of approx 1km between him and the car in front of him. There was nothing at all at least 1km either in front or behind of him to his left - in the lane he SHOULD have been driving in. He never adjusted lane. This meant that 80-90% of the cars driving behind him had to pull into the outer lane to get past him.

80-90% of the cars behind him should have been in the left lane themselves and then wouldn't have had to change lanes at all.

Roadhawk

HiGlo wrote: »

On my journey to work on the M50 this morning there was a car driving in the middle lane at approx 80/85kmph. There was a gap of approx 1km between him and the car in front of him. There was nothing at all at least 1km either in front or behind of him to his left - in the lane he SHOULD have been driving in. He never adjusted lane.
This meant that 80-90% of the cars driving behind him had to pull into the outer lane to get past him.

I encounter this pretty much every day. People travelling well below the speed limit (which is their prerogative) IN THE WRONG LANE. It regularly happens on the outside lane too.

I had the same thing this morning, probably the same guy...were you going northbound at blanch/finglas/ballymun at about 8.30ish?

marno21

Roadhawk wrote: »

Its still the slip road coming off the M50...

There is a pedestrian crossing there so the motorway restrictions have ended.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

HiGlo

Roadhawk wrote: »

I had the same thing this morning, probably the same guy...were you going northbound at blanch/finglas/ballymun at about 8.30ish?

I was going Northbound but it was about 9:15...

There is some kind of obsession with driving in the middle lane no matter what! It could be 8pm at night and just average traffic and 90% of cars will drive in the middle lane with nothing at all to their left. :mad:

Macy0161

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that driving in the M50 is beyond the competencies of most drivers - other countries have heavy traffic on similar roads but not the daily mayhem we see here. Couple of observations from driving on this road:

Not to defend the standard of driving here, particularly on motorways, but the M60 in Manchester has similar issues from what I see pop up on my Facebook feed!

plodder

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that driving in the M50 is beyond the competencies of most drivers - other countries have heavy traffic on similar roads but not the daily mayhem we see here. Couple of observations from driving on this road:

Tailgating - this is a huge issue. People drive in your back seat, so any sudden stops can lead to pile ups very easily.

Merging - because everyone drives to protect the space in front of their bonnet like their life depends on it, common sense doesn't prevail. So when the road is backed up, people trying to merge are not alllowed to do so - I know there's no obligation to allow someone merge, but sometimes it's the sensible and mature way to deal with these situations. People doggedly protecting the space in from of their Bonnet leads to people merging taking chances. Because of the tailgating issue above, any sodden stop can cause a pile up.

Lane swapping and in the wrong lane - lane discipline is almost absent - so people think darting left and right is going to transform their morning commute, whereas it saves a few seconds in reality. This causes sudden braking and the issues with tailgating become evident very quickly.

Overall I think our driving style here is quite immature and defensive and people take irresponsible risks for apparent little gain. If people chilled out a bit and used the road responsibly, we might go someday to helping what must be a daily nightmare at this stage.

I think a lot of these problems will go away with (automatically enforced) variable speed limits. If the limit is set to 60km/h at the most congested time, which is probably an average speed most people would be happy to achieve, tailgating is less of an issue because you need less space anyway and you'll fit more vehicles in the available space, increasing throughput. Less incentive to lane hop also, as you'll be done for exceeding the limit.

ChikiChiki

Not taking away the issues of poorly educated drivers, I think people should really be focusing the issues of extremely poorly connected public transport in Dublin and the even bigger issue of unnecessary urban sprawl when we should be building upwards. Many people (not all) are forced into their cars in the morning because their jobs are unaccessable by public transport and they are forced to live further out due to a troubled housing/rental market.

Poor unambitious governance has got us to this point. No forward thinking and it will get worse.

ThisRegard

Roadhawk wrote: »

We have cycle lanes in some hard shoulder...
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4082992,-6.2651162,3a,89.9y,56.05h,67.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sexnkxeFplFrXnN7ZzUCJeQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Where? I don't see a cycle lane in a hard shoulder there.

Roadhawk

ThisRegard wrote: »

Where? I don't see a cycle lane in a hard shoulder there.

Thats probably why they're not used...cyclists cant see them.

Its the big red thing were the hard shoulder once was:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.407766,-6.2653458,3a,30y,137.82h,54.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSawzRM7-6WOmkBx2gusVZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

ThisRegard

Roadhawk wrote: »

Thats probably why they're not used...cyclists cant see them.

Its the big red thing were the hard shoulder once was:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.407766,-6.2653458,3a,30y,137.82h,54.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSawzRM7-6WOmkBx2gusVZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

There is no hard shoulder. Show us where the hard shoulder is in any of those links you posted? And while you're at it, show us where the motorway is also?

mockingjay

... and the lorries - yesterday morning an articulated lorry was actually belting along the "fast" lane until it got to the Finglas exit where traffic volume slowed it down, then attempted several times to manoeuvre and bully its way back into the slow lane - God forbid someone pulled out in front of him, it would have been carnage - in the US trucks are not allowed in the fast lanes - this is a regular occurrence, same thing on the way home, cars in the slow lane and lorries pulling out sitting in the middle lane, a shiver goes down my spine every time one overtakes me, they know they have the upper hand.

Pinch Flat

mockingjay wrote: »

... and the lorries - yesterday morning an articulated lorry was actually belting along the "fast" lane until it got to the Finglas exit where traffic volume slowed it down, then attempted several times to manoeuvre and bully its way back into the slow lane - God forbid someone pulled out in front of him, it would have been carnage - in the US trucks are not allowed in the fast lanes - this is a regular occurrence, same thing on the way home, cars in the slow lane and lorries pulling out sitting in the middle lane, a shiver goes down my spine every time one overtakes me, they know they have the upper hand.

Hgvs over three and a half tonnes are not allowed in the overtaking lane. I've seen this a lot on motorways here - very frustrating when they try and overtake in motorways as their speed is limited to below the 120 kph limits.

Like almost all other offences it goes largely unenforced.

ThisRegard

mockingjay wrote: »

... and the lorries - yesterday morning an articulated lorry was actually belting along the "fast" lane until it got to the Finglas exit where traffic volume slowed it down, then attempted several times to manoeuvre and bully its way back into the slow lane - God forbid someone pulled out in front of him, it would have been carnage - in the US trucks are not allowed in the fast lanes - this is a regular occurrence, same thing on the way home, cars in the slow lane and lorries pulling out sitting in the middle lane, a shiver goes down my spine every time one overtakes me, they know they have the upper hand.

There generally is no concept of fast lanes in the US.

Stheno

mockingjay wrote: »

... and the lorries - yesterday morning an articulated lorry was actually belting along the "fast" lane until it got to the Finglas exit where traffic volume slowed it down, then attempted several times to manoeuvre and bully its way back into the slow lane - God forbid someone pulled out in front of him, it would have been carnage - in the US trucks are not allowed in the fast lanes - this is a regular occurrence, same thing on the way home, cars in the slow lane and lorries pulling out sitting in the middle lane, a shiver goes down my spine every time one overtakes me, they know they have the upper hand.

I was behind that fecker as I exit onto the middle lane. No one would let me in for fear he'd get in.

Eventually a kind lorry driver did and your man who was the cause of it almost caused another collision

paddyland

mockingjay wrote: »

... and the lorries - yesterday morning an articulated lorry was actually belting along the "fast" lane until it got to the Finglas exit where traffic volume slowed it down, then attempted several times to manoeuvre and bully its way back into the slow lane - God forbid someone pulled out in front of him, it would have been carnage - in the US trucks are not allowed in the fast lanes - this is a regular occurrence, same thing on the way home, cars in the slow lane and lorries pulling out sitting in the middle lane, a shiver goes down my spine every time one overtakes me, they know they have the upper hand.

What an example of the uneducated attitude to our roads - there is no 'fast' lane. There is a 'left' lane, and then two 'overtaking' lanes. Get your lanes straight first.

Secondly, if that lorry was driving in the UK, when he put his indicator on, a gap would generally open for him to move into. In Ireland, gaps close like a clam when somebody's indicator comes on. If someone is indicating to change lanes, especially a lorry, it wouldn't kill you to let him in instead of blocking him out.

Thirdly, lorries are allowed in the first two lanes, not in the third lane. Lorries overtake each other in the first two lanes, because if they didn't a chain would form behind the slowest, and the road would seize up. If a lorry is in the third lane, well he shouldn't be. But if the middle lane is clammed up with morons who sit there doggedly at a wandering and variable speed, 70-80-90kms then back to 70 again, tapping their brake pedal all the time, well no lorry driver can sit behind that for miles, so sometimes they simply have to move out to the third lane, not because they want to overtake everyone, but because it is very hard for the driver of a heavy vehicle with maybe sixteen gears and heavy pedals to have to keep adjusting his speed to the variance and whims of an inattentive and daydreaming driver in front. The day cars are driven with courtesy and respect for other road users, especially heavy vehicles, is the day lorry drivers will be able to revert fully to using the road the way they should do, instead of how they are forced to do.

EDIT - I am not condoning lorries in the outside lane, before the smart alecks pick on that. I am simply telling you that it happens, and will continue to happen, as long as the M50 operates away beyond capacity, as it does at the moment. If there is a lorry in the outside lane, let him in. There is nothing clever or smart about blocking him out of the lane he needs - that is just pure sick-minded childishness.

Cookie_Monster

maninasia wrote: »

The real problem is the m50 cannot handle that number of cars, it's already far past it's planned capacity.

I highly doubt that tbh, and if it's close to capacity, drop the limit to 80, this will actually increase capacity again

kidneyfan

Pretty sure that everyone complaining about the middle lane is out of order.
Left lane. Slow Drivers
Middle lane. Normal Drivers
Outside lane. Overtaking.

It is a diddle to stay in the middle!

First Up

kidneyfan wrote:

Pretty sure that everyone complaining about the middle lane is out of order. Left lane. Slow Drivers Middle lane. Normal Drivers Outside lane. Overtaking.

It is a diddle to stay in the middle!

A neat summary of the problem. This exactly the root cause of just about every accident on the M50.

Driver education and enforcement urgently needed.

Seth Brundle

kidneyfan wrote: »

Pretty sure that everyone complaining about the middle lane is out of order.
Left lane. Slow Drivers
Middle lane. Normal Drivers
Outside lane. Overtaking.

It is a diddle to stay in the middle!

Are you for real?